The following is a transcript of an interview between PaymentsJournal and Tia Ilori, VISA’s Senior Director of Global Fraud and Breach Investigations, at the Money 20/20 event: PaymentsJournalThe Evolution of Hackers and PaymentsPaymentsJournal The Evolution of Hackers and PaymentsPaymentsJournaljQuery(document).ready(function ($){var settings_ap17721975 = { design_skin: "skin-wave" ,autoplay: "off",disable_volume:"default" ,loop:"off" ,cue: "on" ,embedded: "off" ,preload_method:"metadata" ,design_animateplaypause:"off" ,skinwave_dynamicwaves:"off" ,skinwave_enableSpectrum:"off" ,skinwave_enableReflect:"on",settings_backup_type:"full",playfrom:"default",soundcloud_apikey:"" ,skinwave_comments_enable:"off",settings_php_handler:window.ajaxurl,skinwave_wave_mode:"canvas",pcm_data_try_to_generate: "on","pcm_notice": "off","notice_no_media": "on",design_color_bg: "111111",design_color_highlight: "ef6b13",skinwave_wave_mode_canvas_waves_number: "3",skinwave_wave_mode_canvas_waves_padding: "1",skinwave_wave_mode_canvas_reflection_size: "0.25",skinwave_comments_playerid:"17721975",php_retriever:"https://www.paymentsjournal.com/wp-content/plugins/dzs-zoomsounds/soundcloudretriever.php" }; try{ dzsap_init(".ap_idx_82868_6",settings_ap17721975); }catch(err){ console.warn("cannot init player", err); } }); PaymentsJournal  Welcome to the PaymentsJournal podcast. I’m your host Ryan Mac, and today’s episode was recorded at the Money20/20 event in 2019. Now during this episode, I’m going to be joined with Tia Ilori, who is the Senior Director of Global Fraud and Breach Investigations for VISA around hackers. But more specifically, we’re going to be taking a look at hackers’ motivations, how they’ve evolved throughout the years and a specific type of attack called ATM cash-out attacks. So without any further delay, let’s start the show. So Tia, thank you so much for joining me on today’s episode. So you’ll be speaking about the evolution of hackers during a panel discussion at Money20/20. So how have hackers evolved over the past couple years? Tia Ilori Well, thanks, Ryan. So hackers, they don’t wear hoodies. They’re a cast of misfits and criminals today are sophisticated in talent funding, organization, and tactics. They’re increasingly backed by nation state actors and they use a combination of attacks that are leveraged concurrently against mainly financial institutions. PaymentsJournal Yeah, I think it’s always so interesting that there’s just that the stereotype of what a hacker looks like and how it is that they are in that dark room, with a hoodie, in their parents’ basement, and it’s just the one individual. But hackers really have kind of evolved to essentially kind of be an enterprise business and they almost run their operations as though a business would be in terms of like, “okay, here’s the risk, here’s the reward”, like “what am I actually going to gain from this?” other than just kind of “oh, I’m doing this for the sake of being disruptive.” In it, there seems to be more of a business purpose to a lot of these hacks that you’re seeing here. So now, as we’re taking a look at these new hackers here, what are their motivations? You know, are their motivations the same or have they changed over the years? Tia Ilori Yes, the motivations are the same and their goal is to steal money, but their approach and their methods are very different. They’re leveraging technology to scale and they communicate just like legitimate