The Relational Spirituality Podcast

The Relational Spirituality Podcast

Self Talk vs. SoulTalk – How do the 7 Questions Influence our SoulTalk? | Ep. 30

August 15, 2023

As we learn to understand the ins and outs of SoulTalk, how do we allow ourselves to Think Beaneth what’s happening at the surface, how do we find a passion for who we engage with, how do we see a vision for what we could be, and how do we fit into the Larger Story God is telling?

Introduction to the 7 Questions of Spiritual Theology – and how that adds to our opportunity for SoulTalk.


Duncan Sprague has been a part of the Crabb family for years – he got his MA in counseling at CCU under Larry – then interned a year later. He knew Larry well and has a passion to move this message of relating like Jesus now to the next generation of believers. Duncan lives with his wife Angie in Colorado.



Reading & Relating book club 

The SoulCare Experience Study 


[00:00:28] Kep Crabb: Welcome, everybody, today to the next installment of Relational Spirituality, where you can belong, you can become, and you can be known. We hope that you join us every Tuesday as we release a new podcast. If you like what we’re doing, subscribe to what we’re doing and click the like button as well.

Today I’m joined by a familiar face, someone who I hope you’ll get used to seeing a little bit more, a colleague and a good friend of mine, Mr. Duncan Sprague. Dunc, thanks for joining me today, bro. 

[00:00:55] Duncan Sprague: You called me, mister. Woo. I must be moving in the world.

[00:01:00] Kep Crabb: Señor. I don’t know, man. You’re on the road right now. You and Angie, your wife, are on the road. You guys have not too long ago just got done with a year of traveling around and touching base with a lot of the people that you’re in relationship with through ministry. Tell me how that’s going real quick.

[00:01:19] Duncan Sprague: Oh, it’s going great. My wife and I work for a ministry called Cadence International. It works with the military, primarily the US military, but also for some foreign military aspects. Cadence is all about hospitality. Their theme verse is first Thessalonians 2:8 which is to share the gospel. We love you so much that we wanted to share the gospel and our lives. I’ve often thought that in the original Greek it must have said the gospel and our messy lives just because the reality is you get out on the road and you start engaging with people.

We spent a year traveling around just meeting alumni of the ministry. My wife is the alumni director, I’m the alumni pastor. Part of the beginning of our job was we just wanted to make sure that we knew who some of these alumni were. We met just under 2000 folks who had gone through the doors of one of our hospitality houses or youth ministries or children’s ministries. We got a chance to reconnect with a lot of them, find their stories. SoulTalk fits so well with what we we’re doing. It was all conversations and people said, you’re on the road to go have a conversation. I said, absolutely. I was a year of just reconnecting. So we did the whole United States.

Now we’ve shifted into what we call a regional hub. We did one to the South of Colorado where we’re headquartered down into the Texas area a few months ago. Now we are doing seven weeks up in the Northwest traveling around. We’ve been on the road for the last two weeks. So you’re seeing me in the RV. I’m sitting in our RV. You can see a little bit of it behind me. We’re fortunate to be at a place that has good wifi right now. We’re up in Washington state just connecting with some folks.

[00:03:20] Kep Crabb: Awesome, bro. It’s so good to see him. It’s funny as you start to talk about SoulTalk. That is the book that we’re chatting about this quarter in respect to themes and different thoughts from that book. Dunc, you and I’ve known each other for a long time and we’ve had a ton of these Soul Talks. We’ve done some webinars together, but this is, I think the first podcast for Relational Spirituality that we’ve had a chance to do. To give everybody a little context, Duncan and his wife, Angie are part of the small life group that Kimmie and myself are part of, so we’ve had an opportunity to know them for a while and get to know them well and have really developed an incredible relationship with them. We’re going to do two things today as we chat. I just want to let everyone know what’s going to happen. The first thing we’re going to do is talk about some themes from the book SoulTalk, just as we move into it, which was probably Dad’s most – I don’t know, Duncan, would you say – practical book?

[00:04:09] Duncan Sprague: Yeah, it’s the one that every day you will use; every encounter with an individual, you will feel the battle that’s going on inside of you. I think in some ways it’s the book that I refer to the most often because I’m always asking, am I doing a whole lot of self-talk right now? Or am I trying to connect with another soul?

[00:04:31] Kep Crabb: Yeah. Let’s talk about that. You just talked about a little bit of a distinction there, the self-talk versus Soul Talk. Unpack that just a little bit in terms of what you think.

[00:04:54] Duncan Sprague: I think what Larry highlights in this book is that the majority of our conversations are all about self-talk.

Should I say this? I’ve been a pastor most of my life, so I can speak with authority on the fact that so many of my messages that I’ve preached over the years have really been practices of self-talk. How do I look good in front of a crowd so that they like it and keep coming back? The pressure is on how I perform. The pressure is on. Now, I’m wanting to tell the story of God and I want to invite them to it, but I’m oftentimes using means in which, how do you make Jesus look good? How do you make him more palatable for an individual? 

As for self-talk, I often refer to it as the place where the unholy Trinity gets put on display, the unholy Trinity of me, myself, and I. It’s ways I talk to turn the conversation back towards me. It, at its heart, is the fall being manifest in the way that we communicate with each other.

Larry unpacks it as, Soul Talk says I’ve got something of the resources of God in me that, if poured into you, will release a life in you that is bringing glory to God rather than glory to ourselves. I think at the heart of it is that soul to soul connection that leads us to the author of our souls.

[00:06:39] Kep Crabb: I love that whole notion of the Soul Talk and self-talk. We were talking today, we’re going to chat about two things. Certainly some of the themes, like I said, from the book that we’re discussing this quarter. Then we’ll maybe talk a little bit about some of the stuff we’ll talk about next quarter. But the other thing we’re going to talk about is the seven questions of Spiritual theology that Dad introduced to us. Duncan, I, as we get done chatting and I don’t know, Duncan, I think this might actually be a good opportunity to dive into the seven questions, because I want everyone to know that as we move forward, at least with my show, I’m going to be chatting with a number of different people who have thought about these seven questions really hard.

I’ve heard Dad teach on it many times. I’m excited to dive into the series of, what does it look like to talk about these seven questions? So as we prepare for these really quickly, let me just tell you what these questions are, just as we get ready to move into the series on the seven questions of Spiritual theology.

The first one is: Who is God? You start to think about that and we’ve got a little definition, but I think it’s easier to let you guys think about these here. The next question is: What is God up to? Question number three: Who are we? Question four: What’s gone wrong? Question five: What’s God done about our problem? That’s what’s gone wrong. Question six: How is God’s Spirit moving today? And then question seven: How do we join the Spirit’s movement today?

As we were prepping for this today, we chatted about some of this stuff. And I said, Oh, let’s stop. Let’s save this for our conversation this afternoon. So as we’re diving into this year, what do you think about as your mind goes to the first question of who is God?

[00:08:21] Duncan Sprague: There’s a natural way that I go. I think it’s oftentimes the way that our theological mind goes. We think rationally about God and we get lost. I know Larry would often ask this question at the beginning of a seminar. He would say, who is God? Oftentimes you’d hear the words of holy, majestic, all things that are high and lifted up. But he would often say that there’s not much personal about it. Oftentimes this question in theological circles will get us lost in questions like theology proper or core theology, where we talk about the attributes of God rather than how God relates.

Who is He? We miss the reality that God, at His very essence, is God. A community that gets together, gets along really well. I remember thinking that when God created us in His image, He talks in a plurality. He says, “Let Us” in the beginning of Genesis. We don’t have a real clear picture of who’s the us He’s referring to. It’s only as we read the Larger Story of scripture that we see that the us that’s going on is a trinity. Oftentimes we get lost in that Old Testament view of God as He is one, He is big, He is so big, He’s out of reach. Then when the incarnation happens, Jesus comes in flesh and blood. He says, I and the Father are one. Then all of a sudden we say, who is God? We go, Oh, the oneness that He referred to in the Old Testament is one relationship. Then when Jesus is about ready to leave, He says, and by the way, I’m leaving another behind, the Spirit, who will be the same Spirit that is keeping the Father and Son’s relationship working.

This is the part where I know Larry loved, this verse in second Peter that talks about that we are participants in the divine nature. What is the divine nature? It’s God’s nature as a community that every part of the community is radically other centered in the way they talk. When Jesus talks, He says, have you seen my Father? If you’ve seen me, you’ve seen Him. It’s important that you see Him. The Father, as the Spirit is coming down on Jesus at the baptism, says, this is my Son. You hear this radical others centered in centeredness of, this is my Son, whom I love. In him I am well pleased.

So there is this radical other centered nature that we get to be participants in.I think that’s what Larry talks about the way the Trinity naturally talks with one another. Saying, look at Him. That is the nature that He’s put in us. This divine nature that no longer says, look at me. It’s radically other centered rather than radically self obsessed. 

[00:11:45] Kep Crabb: I just love the notion of community. The whole thought of relationship, community being together was something that I think set Dad apart in some ways in respect to how he wrote. Even in this book which he tells so many stories, he opens his own soul, no pun intended, in this book. He’s talking to us which is so great because he talks about five things that you really can start to wrap your hands around as you start to have conversations with people that matter, which was something that he loved to talk about and those five things in SoulTalk – help me with them, Dunc.

It’s: think beneath, think vision, think passion, think story, and then think movement. If you have your mind in those categories, it allows you to start to think in a way that takes the story off of you and makes you curious about that person who you’re talking with.

As you unpack the first question, who is God? Really, He’s a perfect community. That then leads to the 2nd question. We’re just overviewing some of these real quickly as we move through getting ready to jump into the series on the seven questions so people can start to think about this a little bit.

What’s He up to? What’s going on right now? What’s going on? Because I’m talking with so many people whose lives are in such challenging places. You might’ve caught the time that I chatted with Tom and with Brian Fast these last couple weeks. Those would’ve been several weeks ago when our episode runs now. But it’s just, how do you stay engaged when you’re talking to these people? You talked about all these people that are going through tough times. I used to think, wow, Dad had the toughest job. He’d go and do this for a living; talk to people about their problems, about the things that are going on in the deepest parts of their deprived souls and then have to come home and deal with me and Kenny. Man, you got the toughest job, Dad. 

But what is God up to now? What’s going on, man?

[00:14:04] Duncan Sprague: I love the fact that when you state the stories, you talk about his public persona and his private realities of what goes on when he comes home to you boys. Here’s the thing that is unique. Kenny was a troublemaker. I heard that you gave your dad plenty of gray hair.

[00:14:27] Kep Crabb: I don’t know what’s responsible for mine then.

[00:14:31] Duncan Sprague: The thing I love is that he was the same person in both of those. The public and private persona. You didn’t get the preacher who had a different voice from behind the stage as he did when he was sitting with you and your son and your wife.

And that’s, I think, part of the piece that your dad didn’t put as much emphasis on on the accolades that came. I remember at one point asking him, how do you not take seriously and how do you not believe the press clippings, both the negative and the positive? The ones who say you’ve got divine nature, you’re like the fourth member of the Trinity. Somebody putting such high idealistic elements on him. Or the radical, he’s a heretic, never listen to this man, he’ll lead you away from God. How do you not take the weight of both of those and put weight on either of those? One of the things I love that he would say is he says, I figure that my wife knows me better than any of these people, and when I come home from these conferences where I’ve gotten great praise and some criticism, she’s just not that impressed with me. She’s my biggest cheerleader, but not for the reasons that I performed. There’s something in that he was aware of the influence that he had, but not to the degree where he elevated himself beyond the most important relationships, those in his primary community. 

So when you ask the question, what is God up to? I think God is trying to get us caught up in a Larger Story, bigger than ourselves. It’s that practical eschatology; God’s plan for now and for later that he’s always trying to captivate us with, rather than getting lost in, He must be up to something in me. We make His story so small and think that we are the problem. That probably leads to the question, then who are we? Which is the 3rd question. What do you think as he shifts from, what is God up to and who are we in light of what He’s up to?

[00:17:12] Kep Crabb: I did want to jump on one thing real quickly that you were saying that kind of caught my ear because I think I completely agree with you as you’re talking about how Dad responded to some of this and I had a chance to see that. I even get a chance to experience a little bit of it now, though a little less. Oh, you’re Larry Crabb’s son. I used to think, wow, what’s it like being his kid? I used to be a smart-alek and say, he’s the only dad I’ve ever had.

But in retrospect now, as I’ve looked back on it and now being a father of my own to see how he operated and how he moved into your life in a way that lasted – it’s lasted at least to me – now was so important. As you talk about people who would come up to him and say, you’re the greatest or, whatever, or you’re the worst, I think he struggled more with the ones that said, you’re the greatest because he even said to us at one point – we didn’t do this necessarily – at my funeral – this is Dad speaking, he said – I would be remiss if everyone got up there and just talked about how nice of a guy I was or how I wrote some good books or maybe helped some people along the way. I want them to know that I was a struggler and that what was happening inside of my interior world was a battle going on.

What I think he wanted us to know is that the Spirit won that flesh Spirit battle; at the end of the journey, at the end of the narrow road, his journey, the Spirit won. How he finished was so important, but I think he was mostly taken back more by people that would give him heavy compliments. I used to ask, what do you think of that? 

He really gave us a great example of what it means to really be focusing on the Larger Story. How are we part of that Larger Story, which is that kind of that third question there, who are we? That’s the kind of thing that I think we have to realize – which I think I’m starting to in a new way – is that we’re made in the image of God in a way that allows us to relate in the same way that Jesus and the Father relate with it through the Spirit.

That to me is starting to change the way Kimmie and I relate to each other. We’re in a great place right now. Even through all the hard times we’ve been, from health stuff and some depression and discouragement and all that stuff, but where we are now is on some solid ground, it feels.That’s not to say what tomorrow brings, because I don’t know, but I’m sure grateful for today and and that’s who we are; we have the opportunity, and Dad gave us that example, to represent Jesus to others in a way that doesn’t say, look at me, I’m Dr. Larry Crabb standing in front of these people speaking. No. Look what Jesus can do through me. And guess what? He can do that through you too. That just gives me goosebumps.

[00:20:15] Duncan Sprague: I love the fact that you highlight that at our core we are image bearers of God. What does that mean? I know theologians have debated over the years what does it mean to be in His image, and I think Larry uniquely articulates it really well when he talks about, we are relational image bearers. In the same way that the Trinity is a relationship, a community, God has intended for us to put His image on display, so that’s the creation. He has created us male and female to put on the image of God. It’s not isolation that we put God on display. It’s in relationship with others, which again, just highlights the fact that we think that theology is systematic or anything like that. He would oftentimes use the word relational theology, that we have to see all the thinking we have about God, which is theology.

Theology means theologos, God thinking, God thoughts. That’s all. Our God’s thoughts should be seen as a relational thought, not just a rational way. I know early on in his years he would talk about, what does it mean to be human? He would take the secular definitions, but add one component to it. The secular model was emotions, intellect, will, that’s what a human is. Larry would say, yes, we are rational people who think. He would say, yes, we are emotional people who feel. Yes, we are volitional people who choose. But then he would always say, there is a fourth circle of what it means to be human. We are personal people who relate. There is this relational capacity. We can’t define humanity apart from one another. We try to define ourselves as individuals when God says, no, the only definition of you is in relationship to others. I think that’s who we are. We are a relational being created in the image of a relational God.

[00:22:36] Kep Crabb: Yeah. But then just to be fair it was Dr. Houston at Regent University years ago who was having a conversation with Dad and mentioned the term relational theology. Dad said, I’m familiar with other types of theology, but what is this relational theology you’re talking about?

He said to Dad – Dad used to love to use his little Irish accent. Scottish accent, excuse me – he would say something to the effect, it’s the only kind of theology that actually makes a difference in someone’s life. 

[00:23:10] Duncan Sprague: That’s right

[00:23:12] Kep Crabb: He thought to himself, huh, maybe that’s an important place for me to go and start to think.

I think that started him on a path down the whole notion of how relational we are and what does the Father mean when Jesus says, I want you to have the same togetherness and be one like I am one with the Father. That’s relationship. We’re built for relationship. Dad used to say the worst punishment someone can have is solitary confinement. It’s being put by themselves.You usually either kill yourself or you go crazy over a period of time. That’s the worst. We’re built to be in relationship. That’s who we are. Oftentimes when we start to talk about male and female issues, you start to go with just external stuff. I feel like a boy. But Dad got into how we’re designed uniquely and perfectly in relationship to how the Father is God, the Father whom women completely represent in a way that we are not possible. And the same goes for us as well. 

That brings us to the fourth question. This is probably a good little segue on the fourth question: we have a Soul Talk moment here, my brother, because it looks like a lot to me right now that’s really gone wrong. It looks like we’re heading off a cliff to some degree, but what’s gone wrong? What’s the problem?

[00:24:40] Duncan Sprague: As you ask the question I’m reminded of a moment when we’re always asked, is it getting better out there or getting worse? Our tendency is to choose one or the other. I think I remember hearing Larry saying both. It’s getting worse out there. Depravity is only growing in its darkness. It’s always growing. We think, how can it get any more crazy than it is right now? But then we realize that the radical thoughts of today actually are becoming the traditions of tomorrow. Who could have imagined when we were children the kind of world that our children would be exposed to in their schools?

[00:25:31] Kep Crabb: The person who did imagine that was C. S. Lewis, who wrote The Abolition of Man. This is not something new, it just seems that way from our perspective. It’s been perpetuated in a way that is just overwhelming and it’s so wrong, but yet at the same time, this is not something new.

[00:25:49] Duncan Sprague: So what went wrong? We are abolishing the abolition of man, the abolishing of humanity. What’s happening right now? God created us in His image and something happened: a fall where we determined that we would determine what is good and what is evil. We would have our own definitions of goodness and badness. We would decide black and white. You see it playing out right now in politics and in cultures where we go, is there any fixed point that stands in against the flow? Yes, there is, but the waters may rise to the point where you too could be abolished. That sounds rather macabre, but the reality is, evil will always look like it’s winning the further it goes along. The gospel story is that it looked like Satan had won until life resurrected from the dead to show that Jesus was the Lord over death. It didn’t have the power to do this. That’s the resurrection life and the resurrection power that’s in us, saying it doesn’t matter. Literally somebody could put you to the guillotine and go back to France during the French revolution when they would bring these people out and put the guillotine out and they would be chopping heads in public squares. Imagine you as a believer going there and the blade comes down and slices your head off. I’m sorry for the morbid picture, but imagine for a moment that your head could still talk. What you legitimately could say is you missed me.

[00:27:43] Kep Crabb: And it was worth it.

[00:27:44] Duncan Sprague: And it was worth it. You couldn’t destroy what was most precious.

That’s the part that I think believers oftentimes miss is we think that we’re trying to protect ourselves from death rather than seeing death as the doorway to the final hope, the final story.

[00:28:06] Kep Crabb: It’s interesting what Dad used to say about what’s gone wrong is this, we’re God, and you have this anti God virus that’s now in you that you see now so pervasively in where we are. It’s just such an anti God thing. Then what you’re getting into when you start to talk about salvation, you start to talk about the gospel is what has God done about the problem. What’s God done about this fall? 

It reminds me as you were talking a little bit of the story of Esther, as it looked like everything’s done. Tomorrow we’re killing everyone. All the Israelites are gone. And God says, no, I got this and just literally spun it on its head. We know the story and the guy that was going to kill everybody ends up losing his own life with his son’s lives as well. God’s Larger Story will not be thwarted, no matter what, even when it looks like it is. So what’s God done about this problem? This anti God virus problem that we have.

[00:29:15] Duncan Sprague: He gave us a picture of what redemptive living looks like by coming into the very world that was already infected. I had a professor years ago that talked about God as the grand scientist, the one over all, and all of heaven couldn’t imagine why this creator of all the universe spent all of his time looking through a microscope at this little black dot that was on this Petri dish and it was earth.

We oftentimes picture space as the black place and our earth as the light place. But I think heaven looks at it just the opposite where the infected bacteria has come into the virus that is destroying it and all the glory of the Lord, the space eternity, is outside of us surrounding us and yet here is the scientist who’s giving all of his focus to this bacteria, this virus infected planet and saying, I’m giving all my attention to this.

Your dad used to say, if we could only see what captivates. The angels are looking at what God the Father is doing and saying, what’s the big deal? Why does this little space have so much of your attention? And so He then turns to all of the heavenly hosts and He says, I’ve got an idea, my most beloved son. I’m going to make him so small that He’s going to go in there. He will be the cure that comes into this plagued world. That has turned in on itself because what does sin do? It makes me the point. Augustine talked about, it’s the soul curved inward instead of turning outward, like the Spirit of God. That’s the big difference.

If we understand what went wrong, your dad would oftentimes talk about my nature, what comes naturally to me is to live for my own well being at any cost to you. I don’t care how much it costs you as long as I’m happy, as long as I’m taken care of. So that’s what the sin has done. It’s made my nature all about my own wellbeing. We need to see God’s nature, what He’s infused in this world. Jesus came in and His nature, what comes naturally to Him is to live for your well being at any cost to Himself. He takes it all. Then that divine nature that’s radically other centered all about putting your needs before my own, He says He’s put that very divine nature in us by the Spirit of God. So the Spirit indwelling us, He’s come and He’s saying, okay, your natural way is not the deepest part of who you are, a new covenant I’m making with you. I will put my very nature into you. That’s what He’s done. He’s gone to an extent to say, I’m going to pay the price for you, and then I’m going to put my very nature that connects the Trinity. I’m going to put that other centered love in you.

[00:32:37] Kep Crabb: Which leads to the next question. But before we jump into question number six, it just occurred to me as you and I were chatting here that as you start to think movement and you start to think beneath and you start to think passion and you start to think story, you start to think all these elements that kind of make up a conversation that matters.

How they’re tied into these questions allows you to have that conversation. You and I’ve had some of these kinds of conversations in the past, but as we just unpack some of this now, and you talk about now, which is the sixth question, as I start to think story, they start to think underneath what’s going on inside of me right now, what is the Spirit doing today? What is God’s Spirit moving? How is God’s Spirit moving in us today? That’s what you were just unpacking there, and that’s the sixth question of: What is the Spirit actually doing? You say that the answer to the problem, what God’s done about the problem, is He’s now given us His Spirit, literally, he talks about in Acts, which is the best thing that we can ever even think of. 

What we’ve talked about a bunch, Dunc, and this has been my theme since Dad’s death really, is, how do we live a Spirit-led life? And that of course leads to the next question, but unpack, how is God’s Spirit moving today? Because I feel that the Lord’s Spirit is really moving to me.

[00:33:59] Duncan Sprague: Yeah, that comes back to the, is it getting worse or getting better now? I think it’s both. The Spirit is moving, where it’s darkest, the light shines brightest. I think we’re in a time where the relational revolution that your dad was so much a proponent of has more opportunity. When somebody says, no, I am willing to put my rights aside in order to make myself available for your deepest needs, instead of, we’ve got a world of angry evangelicals who feel like we’ve been slighted and we’re getting taken advantage of. When Jesus was getting slighted, he didn’t get angry. In fact, on the night that he was betrayed, he gave. When somebody betrays me, I don’t want to give, especially not myself. I’m not going to cast my pearl before swine. But what did Jesus do? He said, no, my Spirit is still. Jerusalem, I would have longed to have gathered you like a mother hen gathers its chicks.

He was still giving, even as he was taking care of them. Peter is getting all angry and picking up a sword saying, I’ll defend you, Jesus. And Jesus says, I don’t need defending. Put down your sword and pick up the Spirit. He says, it’s enough, no more fighting with swords. I’ve come, I am a sword. They can’t destroy me. I think we oftentimes are shortsighted, and so we miss the Larger Story that God is telling. We go live life, we miss it in our smaller stories. And this is one of the ways that I think of your dad, one of the ingenious ways that he talks about the ways we tell our own stories.

He uses the old Greek categories, the genres of story. He would say, sometimes we will tell our stories, we’ll get lost, and we’ll tell our story like a tragedy. Oh, look at what I’ve had to endure. Feel sorry for me, take sympathy on me, but don’t require anything of me. I’m too weak. So that there’s a pull. The pull is, feel sorry for me. Don’t require anything of me. And your dad will often say when somebody tells their story like a victim, require of them nobility. Invite them to, you’ve got more strength than you can imagine. Not in yourself, but you can bear up under this. Not just tragedy. 

We oftentimes tell our story like a romance where we are the hero of our own story. And you’ve been around people like this. Oh, life was getting really rough. But look at me. I’m more than a conqueror. But we missed the quote. The quote is we are more than conquerors in Him. Not in our own strength, but in His strength. And so oftentimes we get lost thinking that we’re the hero of our own story. 

Other times we can tell our story like an irony. We can say, come and sneer with me at all those peons that are just being duped into this, so it’s a kind of that smug superiority over others where we connect with other cynics who stand outside of community and culture and judge them rather than joining them. I think what is the Spirit doing? He’s inviting us to join people, not in cynicism, not in sneering. 

I think the fourth way that he said that we could tell our stories, the fourth fleshly way we tell our stories is like a comedy. Where the comedy is anything to distract by painting a smile on myself like a clown. To live a happy life. A shallow life, but a happy life. That’s what we think the goal is And all those deeper elements where I feel pain and emptiness we do anything to distract from engaging in those deeper parts where the Spirit actually comes as deep longs for deep. So the Spirit and us, we’re trying to connect with the Spirit soul to soul. 

So the ruling passion of all those stories is: I want the blessings of this world as my ruling passion. What’s core inside of me? I just want people to feel sorry for me. I want them to applaud me, be happy with me. I want them to join me in my cynicism, or I want them to put on a happy smile. Just be positive, encouraging, optimistic. Rather than entering into a deeper passion. This is what the Spirit is doing. He’s given us a deeper passion that in whatever circumstance, I can enjoy the presence of God. Your dad probably displayed this better than anyone. I’ve tasted when he would get stuck in the hospital for 30 days, and he would commune with God. Some would say, I’m going to go crazy. And yet for him, he felt a level of grief when he had to come out of that, because something communed with God in that place.

[00:39:54] Kep Crabb: And nobody wanted anything from him. No one was asking for things, too. Which was interesting, because towards the end of his life, what my brother used to do is actually put a pen in his hand so that he would hold a pen, because he was so used to writing so much. He always had a pen in his hand. I just remember my dad with a pen all the time, and that would almost be a comforting thing to him there at the end as he was laying in a hospice bed. 

Dunc, we’ve got one more question and then we’ve got to wrap it up here. I don’t want to go too much longer, but this has been so fun. When we have the conversations that we have, I feel energized, I feel more passionate about different things and I really appreciate that it’s so fun to connect with you in that way. 

The last question just real quickly is – and this has been the kind of the theme of what we’ve been focusing on is – how do we join in to the Spirit’s movement? How do we hear the Spirit’s movement? As Dad would say, how do we see where the Spirit’s going and follow the rhythm of the Spirit on that? And that’s what we’re going to be unpacking. I don’t really want to unpack it now because I want people to check us out.

We gave you a quick overview of the seven questions, at least the first six for sure. We’re going to continue to talk about these. These are really connected to how we have SoulTalk conversations with people. 

We just appreciate y’all joining us today. Join us next Tuesday as we continue on with our SoulTalk quarter. If you don’t have a copy of the book SoulTalk, please go to and order your copy of it today. Duncan Sprague. Thank you so much for joining me today, my brother. I hope you have a great week. We’ll see you on Sunday. Everybody have a great week. See you.