Today Amy speaks with Anna Holtzman about mind-body pain. We talk about: —how black and white thinking in the mind-body world has led to gaslighting patients and harm. —some of the ways that mind-body practices have helped us as people who had chronic pain. —how are goals for our symptoms aren’t focused anymore on being 100% pain free, but rather on improving quality of life and knowing how to support ourselves on high symptom days. ***IMPORTANT: Both Anna and I recognize the harm that can come from practitioners believing that all pain is mind-body, or is a manifestation of stress/emotions, or is from learned pain pathways (this type of pain goes by many names online!) We have a very nuanced conversation with a conscious goal of acknowledging this harm while also focusing on how some of the ways that learning about how emotions can effect the body may help some people improve the experience of having their pain/symptoms, whether physically or emotionally.