In this episode, Narado Zeco Powell and I talk about metabolic flexibility. You can find Zeco online on his Instagram and at the Matter Over Mind podcast. If you’re curious about the tool he mentioned, Lumen, you can find it at this link. Use HEALNOURISHGROW at checkout to receive $50 off.

Watch this episode on YouTube

Automatically generated transcript, please forgive errors.

Cheryl McColgan:

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Heal Nourish Grow podcast. I am the founder, Cheryl McColgan, and today I am joined by one of my old friends, Zeco Powell, and he has a podcast that I was on quite a while back, and we have known each other on social media now for a couple years. He does some awesome work, and so I can’t wait to share his story with you today. Zeco, welcome. And if you could just start by telling people. how you got into what you’re doing today, because you have a very interesting past about how you grew up and how you became sort of interested in all of this health and wellness stuff. So I’ll just let you kind of tell a little bit about your story, how you got into this.

Zeco:

old friend. That’s an excellent introduction by the way, because I’m like old as dirt. So thank you so much for letting the audience know when you’re talking to your butt. But yeah, so I grew up in Montego Bay, Jamaica, and my history is a little different than most people. Like I wasn’t overweight, but I was underweight. So growing up, I think I was 17 years old, five foot 11, and I weighed about 113 pounds, right? So imagine what underweight

Cheryl McColgan:

Wow.

Zeco:

I was at that time. So when I moved to the US, and this is when I moved to the US, is first I actually weighed myself, right? And when I was here, I started to get interesting in weightlifting, because I was a skinny kid walking around. So I started weightlifting, eating more, and then I eventually would gain weight. You know, I would gain weight, lose weight. I mean, I’ve been over 200 pounds before, did not drop back to 150. And I got to the point where it was becoming dangerous, because it wasn’t just about… you know, health anymore is just how much weight I could gain, then I feel like, like body dysmorphia, right? Like I gained this weight, but I’m like, I’m not happy with myself. I ain’t start losing this weight again. Right away. But it really, when you look at it, I’ve been like healthy, or semi, I’ve been fit all my life, not healthy. I was fit, but wasn’t healthy. I saw that asthma, I had eczema issues. I mean, you look at me, I look good, you know, and, but you would never tell that I have all these problems. And this is something I tell people that We see people in the gym and we say, oh, this person looks so good, but that doesn’t mean they’re healthy. That’s why you shouldn’t actually strive to be like somebody else because you don’t know what they’re struggling with. So anyway, fast forward to about, let’s say, five years ago, my asthma was really, really bad. And it was bad to the point to where days I couldn’t work. I have to go home, lay on the couch. I mean, I’m completely dizzy. I feel awful. And the last time I, one of the times I went to the doctor, he said to me, I said, hey, Doc, look. because they put me on more medication. They kept increasing my medication. I said, there’s something I can do outside of this medication, right? I’m gonna take your medications, but now you have me on pills and Advair, plus my butyrol I’ve already been taking, and I’m not getting any better. I’m only in my 30s at this point. And he said, no, well, you know, you could try to eat better, and that’s about it, you know? And I was like, okay, no, this can’t be it. There’s no way this can be it. I’m too young to be on these medicated pills, and I know what’s gonna happen down the line, right? So I started reading books from like Dr. Stephen Gunter, Dr. Mark Hymer, listened to podcasts like Ben Greenfield and the Model Health Show. I mean, I just started ingesting that stuff all the time. And I started hearing these fantastic stories about how people change their, turn their health around. And I’m like, you know what? I can do these things. And so when I started learning about, you know, lectings and learning about the guts and learning about all these things that I just never, all I knew was calories, right? I want to lose weight, I eat this many calories, I want to gain weight, but most of the time I gain that many calories. I eat that many calories, right? So when I got to that point, I started making those changes because I’m Jamaican, I’m naturally skeptical. I don’t believe anybody. I’m like, this guy just write books because he’s trying to make money. But something interesting happened. I started feeling better. I started like having more energy. I became happier, like just naturally. I’m like, there has to be something to this. So at that point, oh, by the way, King Killa Killer, I started breathing better too. My allergies were starting to go away a lot of things that I thought my eczema my skins all cleared up I mean those things started to happen. It made me more interested. I’m not okay How can I learn more so I started studying get my certifications and fitness nutrition and personal training and you know and everything weight management It’s not a learn a lot and then when I was in the gym training clients. I started to realize that People were enslaved to the same things. I were they didn’t know a lot of things that I knew they people we talk about calories but we don’t know the connection between our health and our weight. We don’t know how to actually eat to have a healthy gut. We don’t know how to, the activities and the lifestyle changes like getting sunlight, vitamin D, and walking and digestion, like all those things play in our health. So from the moment when I started feeling better and I started studying on my own, and then I was working in the gym, it just became a purpose to learn as much as I could possibly learn. so I can help others on their journey.

Cheryl McColgan:

Zeco, this is why I think you and I get along so well, because we both love to dive into the research and just constant learning. And before we go on to kind of more about how you work with people and how you got into that part of it, because you have so many certifications now at this point, I want to go back to something that you said about how you started really feeling better and you felt happy, which is knowing you now, it’s hard to imagine that you are never this, you know, this bubbly personality that you have now. can actually be attributed somewhat to some of those things that you’ve learned. So what were the actual, I like for people to come away with like actionable things, like from this podcast, right? So what were those things that you changed in your diet or in your exercise or whatever it was? Like you said, you were starting to listen to Dr. Mark Hyman and Gundry and all these wonderful people that focus so much on nutrition. What was it? that you change that you feel like attributed to all of these wonderful health changes that you experienced.

Zeco:

Oh, it’s so many, but I can really give some few things that we can already do. The first thing was that it wasn’t even a nutrition thing. It was people. It’s the people that surrounded me, they weren’t supportive. They weren’t happy people. I was waking up to negative energy consistently. So that’s one of the things that I changed. I was huge having the right people around me. The second thing was sleep. My, when I read the book from Sean Stevenson, can’t remember the name of it now, but it’s on sleep. One of the top books on sleep in the world. And I learned so many habits to improve my sleep. Something simple, the alarm clock. Stop waking up to ang, ang in the morning and have a nice wakening in the morning to keep my cortisol levels low, right? my sleep hygiene, like learning that from the morning, getting sunlight and the other habits, you know, reducing caffeine at certain points. And then what I do at night, prepare myself to go to sleep, even by adjusting how cold my house is, right? So I can, my body can naturally produce melatonin, resetting my circadian rhythm, like that’s a fantastic book. And I learned those things and I made sure I wore my fitness watch to track my sleep quality. And I could tell if I woke up and my sleep quality was bad, I didn’t need my watch to tell me. I could tell just by how I felt. But if my sleep quality was awesome, I would look at my watch and be like, oh, yup, there we go, sleep quality is good, right? So that was my next thing was my sleep. And then that was nutrition, which is this is very specific to each person and we know that, right? But understanding what nutrition was important for me, fasting is the first thing. And I believe that everyone, every adult, should have some type of fasting protocol. Unless you’re maybe on the weight or maybe have certain health issues, that’s a different conversation, right? Let’s say most of those should have some kind of fasting protocol. But this is the problem I have with people. They hear fasting and they say, oh no, fasting is bad. Or some people say fasting is good. Fasting is a tool. And it’s a tool that should be used properly. If you’ve never fasted before, you shouldn’t go on OMAD and eat once a day. That’s just stupid in itself, right? You should start off with something simple. And what I do is I knew that I didn’t have the ability and yet to fast for 14, 15, 16 hours. So what I would do, I started with 12 hours of fasting. I would stop eating at a certain point because I knew that if I ate at a certain point, it interrupted my sleep. So at least three hours before bed, I stopped eating. So that would be traditionally around seven o’clock for me. And then initially I wouldn’t eat till about seven or eight o’clock the next morning. That’s it. That’s how I started. And over time, as my body became adapted to that time, I would increase by 30 minutes. I would increase by an hour. Now, something that’s happening, on top of cellular autophagy, we know it’s a benefit to fasting, but something on top of that we’re not paying attention to is that it’s also teaching our body to burn fat for fuel, AKA ketosis, right? It’s a natural habit. It’s a natural, it’s a natural, it’s a natural, it’s something that body does naturally. And I’m lost words right now. It’s something that the body does naturally. So you’re training your body to run on fat for fuel. So that, it’s a hangry feeling, get a Snickers. No, if you’re hangry, you shouldn’t get a Snickers. You need to change the way you’re eating. So in between the times that you don’t have glucose for energy, your body can use ketones. And fasting is important. But again, you have to slowly build yourself up to that. Now after fasting, I have to start learning what diet was important for me. So as I was fasting and I would slowly increase how much fat I eat, decrease the carbs that I would eat, then my body would not only be better at burning its own body fat, but also the fat from the food that I ate, which led me to become more metabolic and flexible, which is the reason why most people struggle to lose weight because they don’t have a flexible metabolism. Their body doesn’t know I don’t have enough glucose. Let’s switch over to burning fat. I’m in fat, let’s switch over to ketones. That’s a little story we can have as we go through the podcast, right? But essentially those are the four things. So the right people around me, improving my sleep quality, fasting, and then also slowly getting rid of the crappy food in my diet and start to increase. the healthy fats that I ate and eating more clean carbs so my body could be more metabolic-effective.

Cheryl McColgan:

And that really leads into a good conversation because everybody that is familiar with this podcast has heard me talk all about fasting before and about keto, of course. But two things that I know about you that maybe you could expand upon a little bit. One of them is you like to talk about metabolic flexibility a lot. And so this is something that I’m obviously very interested in too, but I would love to hear about it from your perspective, because there’s a tool that you use a lot and there’s a certification that you have with them called this tool called Lumen and basically it measures the acetone in your breath to tell like if you’re in fat burning mode or not. So it’s a great tool for people to use for that. And then the second part of that conversation is how do you use those concepts of metabolic flexibility as you start to work with people in your coaching? how do you relate to them the importance of that when people, you know, they’re not us, they haven’t done a deep dive into all this. So I’d love to hear how you explain it to them in a more basic way, because there’s probably some people that are listening to this right now that are like, metabolic flexibility, wait, this is the first time I’m hearing of this, or, you know, sometimes hearing it from a different person explained differently helps it land better. So if you could just talk a little bit about the tool that you use and then how do you work with your clients to get that concept across in a really, comprehensive way.

Zeco:

Definitely, definitely. This is something I’ve spoken to many people about and it really comes down to really just understanding the human body. So a lot of times we will see someone and we say that person eats whatever they want and they can’t lose weight, right? Or they can’t gain weight, sorry. They can’t gain weight. So they eat a lot, they eat a lot, they can’t gain weight. But their body has the ability to break down the foods that they eat because you take that person and put them in a different environment. So let’s say somebody is from the Caribbean, they eat a lot of carbs. and you take them and you try to put them on a diet where they eat a lot of fats and not enough carbs, their body is not going to have the ability most likely to break those carbs well and that comes down to not having the gut enzymes and I’m not going to get into all the science there. So essentially, most humans are born with a lot of amylase which is the ability to burn down, to break down carbs very well. It happens very easily. So some people say, well that means we should eat a lot of carbs. No, no, no. That’s not what it means. because carbs is used for quick bursts of energy and that’s why the body has that ability. Now, if you eat a lot of carbs, the body’s very efficient and it’s gonna say, you know what, you’re not giving me enough fat in my diet. So I don’t need to really have the ability to burn down, to break down fat very well. I’m gonna create more enzymes so I can break down carbs well, right? So then what happens is when you eat fat, The body doesn’t utilize it very well for energy. And what the body doesn’t utilize, it stores. So that’s why we say, you know what? I only ate a thousand calories today, but I’m still gaining weight. Why? Because the food that you’re eating, your body cannot break it down well, right? So what we want is that sweet spot. We want to have the ability to say, if I eat carbs, my body can break it down. If I eat fat, my body can break it down. Right? That’ll be another example. Have you ever met someone who, and this is for the audience or for you, Cheryl, if you wanna answer, who been on, let’s say, a high carb diet for a long time? And low protein, for example, right? Because you just comes along with it. But when they start eating protein and fat, they’re bloated, they don’t feel good. You know, their energy’s low, they just feel awful. May even get gassy and stuff like that, right? because that’s a sign that their body does not have the ability to break that down well. Same on the flip side with keto. I love keto and I do not bash keto, but if you’re always in ketosis and you never eat enough carbs, the same thing happens. Because your body’s, when you start eating carbs, you get bloated, you get gassy, because you lost a lot of those enzymes. So metabolic flexibility is being in that sweet spot. Is when you eat fat, your body can break it down and use it for energy. When you eat carbs, your body can break that down and use it for energy. That’s how you keep the weight off. Because instead of storing it, your body will recognize and say, oh, I know how to use it, and it will use it. And that’s how you get to that sweet spot. And that’s what makes a difference. And that’s why most people struggle. Now with Lumen, Lumen is a breathalyzer. It’s, they send it to you. Once you purchase it, you purchase their service, you blow into it, essentially in this way. When you’re at rest, your body should primarily burn fat for energy. But if you’re in danger, let’s say, or let’s say you’re running or doing intense work, like if I’m doing like high intensity cardio, I increase my carb intake. But if I’m doing zone two, slow cardio or sometimes maybe even weightlifting or depending what exercise is, I may use energy, fat to fuel that workout. Right. So when you’re at a state. that you’re, let’s say, resting or moving at a slow pace, your body can utilize fat very well for energy. When you’re in a high and fast pace, your body should utilize carbs mostly for energy. So what they realize is this. When people are, they would take a test, a metabolic test of someone who was sleeping overnight, and they would test their metabolism next morning, and they realized that people who were at normal weight would primarily burn fat. when they were sleeping. But the people that were overweight or struggled to keep a healthy weight would primarily burn carbs while they were sleeping. So lumen tests your metabolism, and when you blow into it, it gives you an idea of were you primarily burning fat when you were sleeping, or were you primarily burning carbs when you were sleeping? And once they figure that out, then their nutritionist gives you a nutrition guideline for that day. So it may look something like someone who’s primarily a carb burner, because that’s the case. They may have more protein and more fat in their diet for that day because they want your body to become accustomed to say, okay, I need to start learning how to burn fat. Now I’ve had some people who come off keto, who’ve been on keto all their lives, and they struggle to burn carbs well. So they may increase some of their carbs in their diet. to make sure that they keep that ability to burn carbs. So somebody like me, I’m metabolic and flexible. There are times that I run on ketones, there are times that I run on carbs. But I had to do that because I had to train my metabolism to do so. So I never get hangry. If that makes sense, right? I don’t get hangry because when my glucose is low, my blood sugar doesn’t drop, because I have ketones. One more thing I’m gonna say to this, I have… Warren continuous glucose monitor before and every day I their days I do my 24 hour fast, you know Cheryl I know my 24 hour fast. I’m running on ketones, right and Every day around one o’clock My blood sugar would naturally pick up every day regardless how i’m fasted or if i’m eating food My body would naturally do that now that’s because of my activities and the things that I do around that time but My blood sugar doesn’t drop because my body has the ability to switch between fat and carbs as needed.

Cheryl McColgan:

Yeah, and I think that’s the trouble with most people nowadays because they never have that period of fasting, they’re constantly snacking, they haven’t trained their metabolism. And so that’s when they really struggle and get the hangry monster like you’re talking about because their body needs some energy, but it doesn’t know how to break down fat to get those ketones. And so sometimes in the beginning, people need to be a little bit more strict, staying low carb for a while so that their body can be trained. to burn fat and then after a period of time, if they’d like to, they can kind of shift more into this dual fuel model where they eat some more carbs, but their body still has learned that ability to burn fat really well and so then they can go back and forth like you explained with metabolic flexibility. And when you work

Zeco:

Yeah,

Cheryl McColgan:

with people

Zeco:

exactly,

Cheryl McColgan:

mostly

Zeco:

because that’s

Cheryl McColgan:

nowadays,

Zeco:

the struggle most people.

Cheryl McColgan:

right.

Zeco:

Glacier.

Cheryl McColgan:

So nowadays, do you find that you work with people more on nutrition, more on weight training, or is it really more of both? What is your primary person that you work with nowadays look like, and have you seen a trend towards one or the other? Like they’re more focused on weightlifting, or they’re more focused on their nutrition, or is it just a combination?

Zeco:

It’s a combination, but I would say 75% nutrition. And the reason why I say 75% nutrition is because most people have an unhealthy or a damaged or should say inflexible metabolism. And they don’t understand that. They come to me and they say, I’ve cut my calories. I mean, a thousand calories a day. I can’t lose weight no matter what I do. And I say, okay, then you need to stop because you’re cutting your calories too much. And whoever told you to do that, turn around, run away and don’t ever listen to that person ever again, because that’s what the problem. because your body is not, your metabolism is unhealthy, your metabolism is flexible, and you keep doing what you’re doing, you’re gonna make it worse. So we have to start from the ground work and be like, okay, what are you eating now? How can we get you to at least three meals a day? And if you’re using Lumen, that takes all the guesswork out for me, because I know exactly what your metabolism is doing. And I get you on that path to where you can say, okay, now I see what I should have been eating to get myself there, because… You can’t, because with Lumen, when you purchase Lumen, you go into a group, and I think about 35,000 people in that group now, and I’m one of the group experts. And they ask a lot of questions. So they’ll, because becoming metabolic and flexible, believe it or not, is not just about food. Sleep and lifestyle habits all play a role in it. Weight training, the how you work out also plays a role in it. And we’ll give you an example. When I’m doing high intensity cardio. I tend to fuel up more with carbs. Now, when I am doing zone two training, I fuel more fat. Why? Because zone two is more for relaxed training. I can even talk while I’m doing it. And that keeps my body in a fat burning state. When I do zone two training and I blow into lumen, it tells me that I’m at a one or a two, which I’m primarily burning fat, right? But if I go into when my heart rate is picked up really, really high, because your body basically thinks you’re in danger, and because when you pick up your heart rate like that, it’s adding a lot of stress to your body. Your body thinks you’re in danger. And that’s why we crave carbs and sugars whenever those things happen, because we need it for quick bursts of fuel. So something that’s awesome about the Lumen Group is that people will ask, okay, I’m not burning fat well. Why am I not burning fat? and then I ask them about their lifestyle. I ask them about their training. I ask them about what they do when they wake up. Because one lady told me that every time she blows into her lumen in the morning, it’s telling her she’s burning carbs and she doesn’t understand why. And I said to her, I guarantee you it’s your morning routine. Because she told me what her morning routine was. And she said, you know what, that makes so much sense because when I’m on vacation and I blow into my lumen, it tells me I’m burning fat. And I said, exactly, because when you’re on vacation, what, you’re relaxed. your karma. That’s why training your body to respond to stress is also important. You know what I do when I wake up every day Cheryl? I read the Bible and I journal. That’s my first thing every day. I pray, read my Bible and journal before I even do my cardio or anything. And that’s my way to start my day. Now some people may not pray, they don’t believe in Jesus. That’s fine. That’s their thing. You want to meditate however you want to do it. Whatever you think of it. But you need to do something for yourself. when you get up every morning. That makes a huge difference because we get up and what we do. I gotta get the kids ready for school. I gotta do this. And you know, I gotta get ready for work. Then I gotta drive in traffic.

Cheryl McColgan:

Get on the phone.

Zeco:

Then I gotta go work. I gotta hurry and I gotta log in. And then you know, I gotta talk to these people. I don’t like them, they don’t like me. I don’t want my boss and me not working, so let me get back on the computer. The first two, three hours of the day, you’re stressed out. Your body thinks you’re in danger consistently. You’re stressed, so that’s why you want a honey bun. That’s why you want. You know, you want carbs because your body constantly thinks you’re under stress. So I work, I would say primary nutrition, but a big piece of it is I have to work with people on reducing their stress levels. I have to work with people with how you’re working out for the goals that you’re trying to accomplish. I have to work with people with, are you getting enough sunlight, enough vitamin D? I have to work with people on how fast are you eating? Are you eating in a rushed state? Are you eating in a state where your body can digest your food well? Or are you going for a walk after your meals, even for five minutes just to relax your body, to help your digestion? There’s a lot that goes, there’s a really a lot that goes into it.

Cheryl McColgan:

Yeah, that’s so important for people to remember that because I often say stress and sleep are two of the most under, if you’re trying to lose weight, those are two of the most underrated things because everybody just wants to think, oh, I got my diet dialed in. Why isn’t this working? It’s like you have to look at all those other lifestyle factors or it just won’t work. Which kind of brings me to the next point. Your podcast used to be called the Zeco Health Podcast, but you recently changed the name and I think it’s a really interesting new title. Could you tell us the new title and kind of why you chose that and what it means to you.

Zeco:

Yeah, I’m gonna make this one as simple as I can. Plus, we’re kinda running out of time, so I don’t wanna show it to kinda kick me off the broadcast here. So, let’s,

Cheryl McColgan:

Never.

Zeco:

the Matter Over Mind experience just came to me one day. I call it a vision, I don’t know what, it just came to me one day. Cause I was like, you know what, all these things that I’ve done in my life, and to be 40 years old, well, I was 39 at the time, and to be as healthy as I am, wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t make lifestyle changes. Right? So I had to do physical things to get me there. I didn’t just hope that, hey, I’m going to be healthy. I had to make actual changes, right? So I said, you know what? And then I’ve talked to a lot of people that have said to me, corrected me and said, no, it’s the mind over matter. I said, I don’t know whatever you want to call it. But even if I had prayed and meditated and wished, I still wouldn’t be this healthy if I didn’t eat organic and do all the other things that I mentioned that I did. So I call it the math over mind experience, meaning that it’s not a contest of which one is greater than the other. I can’t tell you that even if I tried. But what I’m telling you is, if you just make regular physical changes, even as small as they may be, that will start to change your life. So that’s how on the podcast I bring on people like Sher, who talks about ketosis, right? Or I bring on a doctor who talk about the health, the gut health. I brought on Dr. Yachty the other day that mentioned the importance of your gut and your gut brain connection, and how important that, and the connection between mental issues and poor gut health, right? We talk, you know, so if, we have to make those changes. So I said, you know what, I love that name. I love the matter over mine. Because instead of just wishing my problems away, let’s teach people how to make these gradual changes. So every episode that I have up there, every interview, every video, is all designed to teach you at least one thing, one takeaway that you can have from that episode to help you to become a healthier version or make changes in your life.

Cheryl McColgan:

love that. And so if you had to say what one thing you would want somebody to walk away from this conversation today, if you could just pick one, what would be your number one thing you want people to walk away with from knowing the Zeco like mantra or Zeco, you know, way of thinking.

Zeco:

The one thing I would say, it’s tied between two things for me, but the one thing, if I had to pick, if you put a gun to my head today, is improve the health, improve the quality of your sleep. If you put a gun to my head, that’s what I would say, improve the quality of your sleep. Yes, there are so many other things that we can do, but sleep is always going to be, you can have the healthiest diet, you can have the best friends in the world, you can do everything you can. But if you’re not sleeping well. you’re gonna feel like crap. So improve the quality of your sleep. And I do have an article on sleep, but you don’t have to read my article. You can check out guys like Sean Stevenson, one of the best books on sleep, probably the best book I’ve ever read, to be honest. Improve the quality of your sleep. And know that sleep quality, sleep hygiene doesn’t begin at night. It begins with what you do in the morning. So once you understand that and you start to make those changes, it can really transform your life.

Cheryl McColgan:

That’s, I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s one of the most, I think, and to your point, one of the most important, maybe the most important of all things that you can do for your health. So speaking of your article on sleep and where people can find you, can you share with everybody, uh, where’s the easiest way to get in touch, your. Podcast, uh, the full name again, just so everybody knows and your website, all that good stuff.

Zeco:

Just Google me to be honest. I joke with my friends

Cheryl McColgan:

Okay.

Zeco:

now, I’m Googleable, okay?

Cheryl McColgan:

Just Google me.

Zeco:

Just Google

Cheryl McColgan:

Ha ha ha.

Zeco:

Nerado Zeco Powell. A bunch of stuff is gonna come up. But really and truly, you can just go to YouTube, the Matt Overmind Experience, or if you Google my name, it will come up. My Instagram, Zeco Health, so that stays the same. If you wanna Google Nerado Zeco Powell’s Instagram, or Zeco Health, Z-E-C-O Health, that’s where you can find me. If you want any actual resources, You can just Google my or look me up on Instagram and you can send me a DM. I’m also connected to Charlotte who follow each other. And yeah, and I can jump in my DMs and ask me any question you want. It goes down in DM, your boy’s okay with that.

Cheryl McColgan:

Well, I will make sure I put all your links in the show notes as well. But Zeco, I just really want to thank you again for taking the time today to join us. And I loved your tips and I loved that we walked away with people knowing that sleep is the most important thing here.

Zeco:

Thank you very much, Cheryl. It was a pleasure to be here, of course.