Topher: Hey everyone. Welcome to Hallway Chats. I’m Topher and my co-host is Sofia. Say hello, Sophia.

Sophia: Sorry. Hello. I was trying to look at the show. 

Topher: Okay. Our guests today come from WordCamp Europe. Please tell us your names and what your role is for WordCamp. 

Evangelia: Hi, my name is Evangelia Pappa. And for WordCamp Europe 2023, I am one of the global leads this year. So I’m responsible for the teams of budgets, sponsors, and the community team. 

Topher: Okay. 

Lena: Hi, I’m Lena Lekkou. I’m responsible for the design. I was the design lead team. What you see and what is printed, what is on the website and what is on the social media is from my team. You can blame us or not. 

Topher: Oh, I can’t hear you anymore. Oh, there we go. 

Hacer: So my name is-

Topher: Now it’s not coming through very well. I don’t know. Maybe it’s the angle.

Hacer: Maybe.

Topher: That’s much better. Yeah. 

Hacer: My name is Hacer Yilmaz. I’m a member of the communications and PR team, and sites, I’ve been involved with adding all of the content to the website and also organizing our relationships with media partners. 

Topher: Oh, you know what? I’m gonna stop us right now. I’m gonna hit record and start over. 

Sophia: It is recording. 

Topher: It is?

Sophia: Yeah.

Topher: No, it’s not. Oh, you are recording? Wonderful. Yeah. All right, then never mind. Okay, great. That’s awesome. I’m glad to have you here. Where are each of you from? 

Evangelia: We are at the moment at Athens Concert Hall. This is the venue of WordCamp Europe 2023 otherwise called Megaron. 

Topher: Yes. But where do you live?

Evangelia: I live in Larissa. It is a city in central Greece. So it is four hours from Athens. 

Topher: And Lena, where do you live? 

Lena: I live here in Athens in Greece. 

Topher: Oh, wow. That’s cool. 

Hacer: I live in Portugal. 

Topher: Okay. I guess I don’t know why I expected more people from outside Greece. But maybe that’s just a false expectation on my part.

Evangelia: Oh, we do have a lot of people from outside Greece. You just hit the jackpot today with me and Lena, two out of three. 

Topher: It is a jackpot. 

Lena: I must say that as a Greek community, we are very involved with WordCamps and with the community as it is. So this is why you might see a lot of Greeks.

Topher: Okay. In general, Greeks are really involved and love organizing events because we have two local WordCamps that we are also planning, a third one in a different city, maybe after WordCamp Europe. However, it’s also a little bit difficult to find people who are able to commit their time and invest being an organizer. You will see this year’s organizing team did have a lot of breaks, in several teams, not only the local team. However, we do have people from all around Europe and also some people from other continents. 

Topher: That’s cool. It is early morning for us, not too early, but it’s the beginning of our day and it is mid-afternoon of day two for you. How’s it been so far? Is it going smoothly? Are you having a good time?

Evangelia: Yes, it’s the first day of the main event because yesterday we had the contributor day. So basically, the event started yesterday. Today we had talks in three tracks and also two workshops. And at the same time, we had panels, panel discussions that was something really interesting, except for the talks and workshops. And enlightening because we had also panel discussions regarding diversity, getting involved with the community, women and non-binary people positions in let’s say [inaudible 00:04:57] also, like the amazing team that we have, This is like an example on how we should be handling diversity. It was so far a very nice day.

Topher: How’s the weather been? Is it nice?

Evangelia: Finally it is summer. Because the last week in Greece, it was almost winter. It wasn’t normal for us. Usually in May and early June, it is considered to be summer, but at the moment, we have around 30 degrees Celsius. Last week we had around 15 or 12. It was raining.

Topher: That’s cool. 

Sophia: So this is a question for all three of you. What made you seek a role in the WordCamp organizing team? 

Hacer: So I was also an organizer last year at WordCamp Europe. But before that, I had just been working with WordPress for around three or four years. I was kind of as a freelancer, I am kind of missing in our colleague environment, and the whole social part, let’s say. I know that WordPress has a big community. So I thought maybe that’s something also for me, you know, nice community to be a part of. So that’s why I applied to be an organizer last year. That was also the same reason for this year is because last year I found out it’s a great community. So I just wanted to keep being part of that. 

Sophia: Nice. 

Lena: If you start with this, you cannot stop, I think.

Sophia: Oh, yeah. You can never leave. They never let you go. 

Evangelia: To be honest, many of us every year say, you know, This is my last WordCamp. And it never is. Because you might feel very tired during or a few days after the event considering it has been a very intense period before and also during the whole conference. But then you realize, “Oh, my God, all those smiley faces. How can I live without this tension every day of my life? Spending every day working for WordCamp as an organizer?” And seeing things happening-

Topher: So what you’re saying is that WordCamps are children.

Evangelia: I don’t know. Maybe like that. But you cannot leave that. You cannot. I said to myself I would stop or you know, take some time off to get some rest. I needed vacation really badly sometimes. And then I realized, “Oh, my God, they will start organizing without me. I will have no idea what is going on.” How can I live with that? It’s really strange.

Lena: So I agree with both their opinions about this. But something that I have as a reason for working in all these communities is that when I started to work in this industry, it was very hard to make connections and feel welcoming and start not being so introverted. So that’s what helped me overcome this situation and start having connections and working at this industry. So because I feel that at the start it was very welcoming for me, I feel some way that I can do the same for people that are in this position right now. So I feel that I can help people that are now at the start of this journey. And I feel the need to give something back to something like this. 

Sophia: Yeah, for sure. 

Topher: Think back, if you will, to the first time you volunteered. What did you expect? How does the reality compare to what you thought being an organizer would be like? 

Evangelia: For WordCamp Europe or in general volunteering as an organizer for WordCamps

Lena: I have the same question, if it’s only for WordCamp or volunteering in general. 

Topher: Well, now I want to know how they’re different. So both.

Evangelia: I can explain why they’re different. Because my first experience with the WordPress community was back in 2015. So I had nothing to do with WordPress back then. I will be honest with you. I met the community, I saw how it felt like a safe space, a supportive space, a space where people were pushing me to grow. And I found it really important because I felt I belong here. I feel this is my space, my people. So I think I chose to be here. I chose the community, not the tool from the beginning. 

So when we started organizing the first WordCamp in Athens, it was a fest for the whole great community, it was very few people coming from all around the country, not only from the local meetup. And it was really impressive to see the event happening from the backstage, because we had never done that before, we had no idea what we were doing. So we were also very thankful that we had mentors helping us out. The WordCamp handbook also organizes so you know, what you shouldn’t be doing, which is sometimes more important than what you should be doing. 

It gave me a skill set I never had. Because working as an organizer gives you also knowledge, skill set that you can use also in your daily life, in your work, or anyplace you can imagine. And it also gave me a family. So I selected to stay with this family like forever. 

Topher: That’s really good. I like that. 

Evangelia: But the difference with WordCamp Europe is that we started as a community volunteering to WordCamp Europe in 2018 in Belgrade. And we said, other countries are hosting WordCamp Europe, we would like to do that in our country, too. So let’s go and see how it is, but not go as attendees. We want to see backstage what’s happening. And if you like it and we believe that we can make it, then we will apply. 

So our first experience was that. We traveled all together from Greece. We stayed for a week in Belgrade. We volunteered. We all volunteer to the events. We saw what was happening, we liked it. It was a different taste on the lips because it’s different cultures, different people, different languages. When you are in your country, you can communicate perfectly fine, because it’s your language, everybody will understand exactly what you’re telling them. But when you are in another country, and you have people from all around Europe, there is always a language barrier. 

And the way that we try to avoid misunderstandings, I think it makes the community better because it helps people with being more understanding and caring about other people’s feelings. For example, if I joke with you about something, maybe this is a joke for me because I come from this place and it’s funny for us, it’s hilarious, but maybe for you this is insulting. So that’s a very big difference in WordCamp Europe from a local WordCamp because you have to pay attention. 

Topher: Right. That’s very, very insightful. What about the others? How has it been for you? Oh, you have to lean into the microphone. 

Hacer: My first experience volunteering was actually already as an organizer last year for WordCamp Europe. I didn’t volunteer before for any local WordCamps. Also because I’m living in Portugal and I live very remote. So the near most WordCamps that are near to me is Lisbon. But that is a two-hour drive from where I live. So I don’t go there very often. I only go to the WordCamp Portugal as the national one. I attend that one. But I cannot really compare it because WordCamp Europe is the only one where I have been volunteering and being an organizer. But I mean, I liked it so much last year that I did it again this year. 

Topher: That’s really fascinating given that there are far more small WordCamps than there are the big ones. 

Hacer: Yes, definitely. And Portugal –

Topher: Yeah, go ahead. 

Hacer: I just want to say like in Portugal, it’s not a very big country, so the community is big, but they’re mostly centered in the big city. So it’s like in Lisbon and Porto. So if you live nearby, yeah. If I were living in Lisbon, I would go all the time to meetups for sure. If you’re remote, it’s a bit more of a problem. 

Topher: Sure. I went to Portugal last year for WordCamp Europe. It was fantastic. I even stayed an extra week for my birthday. It was fun.

Evangelia: There are people who stayed like forever because they moved there. 

Topher: Yes. 

Lena: We still have some people…

Topher: Lena, how about you? How do you feel the comparison to what you imagined it would be? 

Lena: I have a very big history with volunteering. I was volunteering in some art exhibitions. In the past, I was volunteering at the theater. I have seen backstage how with theater is working. But the things that Evangelia told about how you’re feeling that you’re welcome and you are a family with all these people, it’s very different from everything else. 

Fun story from my first ever volunteering. It was in the exhibition. I was 18 years old, I was just come here in Athens for my first year. And they put me in a building alone just to watch the paintings. The area wasn’t very safe, and had people coming from outside asking for a cigarette or something. And I wasn’t really safe. I was alone in the huge building. But I was very happy that I was volunteering and making something. But in addition to this, this is very welcoming and I’m feeling very safe. And like I think part of my family. So it’s very nice.

Topher: That’s really cool, and makes me happy to hear that. Excuse me, my voice has been weird today. As a host, I come up with questions. But I always wonder if there are wonderful things that I don’t even know to ask about. Tell me something about WordCamp or yourself or something that… I’m in Michigan in the U.S.. I’m not there. I don’t know. I can’t see it. So tell me something cool about WordCamp that’s happening or you’ve seen or done.

Evangelia: Well, I think that we have been organizing in WordCamp Europe, at least I can speak for myself, in around four or five years now. And it was a really amazing experience because it taught me a lot of things. A good thing is that everybody is supportive because we have different teams that handle different aspects of the event. So we have, for example, design team for the branding and designs and printing and all these things. We have a different team that has to do with technical staff like the IT team for systems access, for the tools that we’re using. We have the sponsors team that is handling the sponsors. 

Usually in smaller WordCamp like the local ones, we do not have teams because it’s almost everyone doing everything. And it’s in a smaller scale. Local WordCamp have around 15 organizers, depending on the size, but WordCamp Europe has around 100 people and also 150 volunteers this year. We would have more people attending as volunteers to assist us. But we had some issues with Visa applications for specific countries

Topher: Oh, right. 

Evangelia: So unfortunately that reduced the number of the volunteers from 200 to 150. In general, WordCamp Europe gives you the opportunity to meet with people through Zoom meetings every week with your team and also we have big town halls during organizing where we can meet the whole organizing team. This is a struggle to make it happen because it is like 100 people in different time zones. you might never be able to find one date and time that accommodates everyone but we try to do that. So you can get to see each other, not in person but at least in the video call before you actually come in the venue. Because organizing WordCamp Europe means I am in Greece, Hacer is in Portugal and we never met each other.

Topher: Right.

Evangelia: Especially.

Topher: And now you’re best friends. 

Evangelia: Yeah. Especially if both of us are first-time organizers. Because we have a lot of first-time organizers. And that was an amazing thing to see the past two years. We had people that organized for the first time, not only WordCamp Europe, but in general at WordCamp, they were leading a team for the first time and they did amazingly well. 

Lena: When I see people that I haven’t seen before, you have legs, I didn’t know you have legs. I only see from this side. You’re a person, a whole person.

Topher: That’s really funny. 

Hacer: Something I want to add is like last year when I was first-time organizer, as Evangelia said, you know, you don’t see each other and then you see each other for the first time at the event. But it was like as if I already knew everyone from my team as, you know, we were already, I don’t know, we saw each other 10 times or 12 times before. And we were like, you know, like hugging and like, “Oh, yes. Hi. Hi, how are you?” Well, I never saw those people in my life for real, only on the screen. So that was I think also really nice being an organizer for WordCamp because it’s just like as if you know everyone already through the screen. 

Topher: Right. 

Lena: I was saying yesterday at the party we have that I had a lot of time to receive so many real hugs. We are seeing everyone and we are hugging. It was so nice. 

Topher: Yes. 

Evangelia: Last year, we wanted to find other people-

Lena: But we couldn’t. 

Evangelia: We were trying to be a little bit cautious for COVID. Now don’t really have that fear. So it’s adding all over ?? Megaron. 

Lena: Let’s see how it goes. I’m not sure yet. We will see. 

Topher: What is some advice you would give somebody who’s never been to WordCamp Europe before? 

Evangelia: Joining with the people. It might be scary to seeing someone say, Hi, my name is Evangelia, for example, I’m a developer, I’m a designer or I’m blogger, if you are not also very social person. However, we’re trying to accommodate a rule that I recently found out how is it is called. And I don’t recall the name at the moment. I think it was The Pac-Man Rule. When people are in a circle and they’re talking, you leave a space like so they can feel invited to join the conversation. 

Sophia: Nice. 

Evangelia: That was a really nice thing that I read and would love to share with people.

Lena: I didn’t know that. 

Evangelia: I think it was [inaudible 00:23:16] that explained that to me a few days ago. And I was like, “Really insightful. Thank you for sharing this will me. I will be sharing this with everyone I know.” Also for the people that have been attending a lot of WordCamps or they are organizers, volunteers, speakers, they have any other role, if you see someone, just grab them from the hand and say, “Hi, I want to introduce you my friends. Who are you? What are you doing with your life? How come you’re here?” So just give people the space to open up. 

Sophia: For sure.

Lena: So if you’re feeling like you also don’t know how you can start the conversation, be a volunteer, and you will meet a whole bunch of people and you can start conversation with them. So that’s my advice. Go and be volunteer for something. 

Topher: That’s great. That’s great. All right. We are at about 20 minutes. So this is about the right time to end. I really appreciate you being here, getting up at this early hour of 4 p.m. 

Evangelia: Thank you very much for hosting us, giving us the opportunity to express ourselves.

Topher: I look forward to talking with you again. I don’t think I’ve met any of you before. 

Evangelia: I think we met last year in Porto.

Topher: Oh, did we? 

Evangelia: Yeah. 

Topher: I met a lot of people in Porto. 

Evangelia: I completely understand that. I was leading the peer team so we definitely accommodated some of your interviews. Because you’re partnering and also sharing the equipment I think with Nathan… Bob. Bob Down. 

Sophia: Oh, yeah. 

Topher: All right. I have a little bit here to read, and then we can go. 

Evangelia: Sure. 

Topher: This has been an episode of Hallway Chats, a part of the HeroPress Network. Your hosts were Sophia DeRosia and Topher DeRosia. We’d like to thank Sophia for the music and Nexcess for hosting our network.

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