Episode 107-The Case of The Loaded Chicken
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

gun, cmp, tsa, called, chicken, lawyer, books, revolver, dcm, buy, law, firearms, evan, case, gun owner, client, spokesman, places, weapons, fbi

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Speaker 3

Evan Nappen 00:20

I’m Evan Nappen and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, here’s a very interesting story that I just read, and it reminds me of the cases that I seem to end up getting. Just recently the TSA at the airport in Fort Lauderdale found a gun hidden inside a Florida woman’s chicken. That’s right. She had a raw hen that she was apparently taking to Haiti, and inside the raw hen being transported to Haiti was a compact, semi-automatic pistol. Now they’re not identifying the pistol, but it looks like a compact nine. I can’t make it out exactly. It could be a .380, but I think it’s a compact nine stuffed deep into this chicken. Now, I’m looking at this and thinking, should you really think that a metal gun wouldn’t be found in a chicken? I mean, come on. It’s going to be like they’re scanning it. They are going to see a chicken, and they are going to see a gun in the chicken.

Evan Nappen 01:49

Now they may think, hey, they had a rough night last night and maybe they’re seeing things or something. But this is a freaking gun in a chicken. Come on. What do you expect? So, I’m looking at this, and the TSA posted a picture of it. They decided to do some whole kind of goofy news release on it, which I don’t blame them because this is very bizarre. But it does say that a TSA spokesman took the opportunity to reach into their bag of Thanksgiving themed puns, as they issued a warning to other travelers looking to safely travel to secure firearms. By the way, I am reading parts of this, just for everyone to know, from a piece by Grace Stevens In the Truth About Guns. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/tsa-finds-gun-hidden-inside-florida-womans-chicken/ So, tag is very cool. This is where I saw this come through on the news feed, and if you don’t get the tag info, you should it’s kind of fun.

Evan Nappen 03:00

Here’s a quote from it. It says, “The plot chickens as we barrel are way closer to Thanksgiving.” Oh, the plot chickens. I get it, like the plot thickens. Okay, let’s go back to there. Can you imagine the TSA is actually trying to be funny? Wow. “The plot chickens as we barrel our way closer to Thanksgiving. For us, it’s a time to be thankful that our officers are always working around the cluck to keep you safe,” the spokesperson wrote. “We hate to beak it to you here, but stuffing a fireman in your holiday bird for travel is a baste of time. This idea wasn’t even half-baked; it was raw, greasy, and obviously unsupervised.” The best joke here in my opinion, would you say that she was attempting to transport a pistol that was cocked. Right? Come on, but TSA wouldn’t go there. But we can go there. We can go Page – 2 – of 8

there on Gun Lawyer. And nothing about foul play or any of that not being suspected. You would think they would at least do that joke.

Evan Nappen 04:11

Come on TSA, get with the program and do some better job. You were just given a gun in a chicken. Think you can do way better than what I just read. That’s just pathetic. Seriously, this joke of a situation was literally handed to the TSA on a silver platter, and they failed to take advantage of it. Instead, I think one day, this is all going to come home to roost on the TSA over what they’re doing. And you know what? I have to say that I have actually a strong desire to get away from making chicken jokes here. Instead, I want to tell you about other weird places that guns have been found. Even had clients with guns in weird places.

Evan Nappen 05:06

A classic, of course is, I mean, it never gets old, when somebody’s caught with a gun in their butt. Let’s just face it. It seems to me from my observation that the preferred gun to have up your butt is a North American Arms mini revolver. I mean, it is a mini revolver, right? It makes sense; that’s pretty good. If you’re going to put something up your butt, putting a Desert Eagle is going to be just not very comfortable. Not that the North American mini revolver is going to be comfortable, but it’s a big difference between that and a Desert Eagle or a nice Smith 29 .44 mag. Oh, forget it, you’re at least going to have to get. I would say that the North American Revolver is probably the best choice. Although some folks might be able to push it up a notch. I could well see somebody going in a gun shop and discussing these alternative ways of carry and having other guns suggested, maybe to upsell the person. Do you think you could do a J frame? How about a Smith J frame? We’ll, throw in a free can of Vaseline and man, you’re going to have more firepower and stopping power with a J frame. I can just see that right? I mean, come on, this is it.

Evan Nappen 06:36

Of course, there have been guns that have been in vaginas. That’s another thing and that can really get disturbing. You don’t want to bump into a gun in a vagina. It can be very inappropriate. But yet they’re put there, too. Again, a longtime favorite of that is the mini revolver, the North American Arms mini revolver. I’m starting to wonder about people that own North American Arms mini revolvers, frankly, because of having this conversation with you. Why do they have it? Why do you have such a little .22? That’s five shots and that small. Seriously, what are you going to do with it? Probably put it in your vagina or your butt; that’s probably what your intention is. I think that we could reasonably jump to that conclusion and pass laws about this. I think New Jersey needs to pass a law about having guns in people’s butts and vaginas. It does occur. And they might even have a side note about in chickens. Seriously, right?

Evan Nappen 07:42

I had an actual case with a guy transporting his shotgun. Broken down, unloaded in a case, but he put it in his dog’s kennel because he was going hunting. He was bringing his hunting dog and his dog was flying in the plane in the kennel. And he said Hey, I’ll put my cased shotgun in the kennel with the dog because it’s in a case. He didn’t realize that the kennel gets put through the same security screening, Page – 3 – of 8

and he got in trouble for having his gun in the kennel. That was a whole big ta do e to get that one resolved.

Evan Nappen 08:22

Now there is actual marketing of, as weird as guns in butts and vaginas is, there’s actually concealed carry devices for real that are marketed to unusual places to carry. There is such a thing as a bra holster. I’m not kidding. They’re really out there, bra holsters. And it’s not a terrible idea, actually. I mean, the size of the gun you carry is dependent on how endowed the woman is to comfortably carry. But they do make bra holsters, and I guess that’s a hideout that they could take advantage of. There’s another product called Thunderwear. It’s actually called Thunderwear. It’s similar because it is deep cover near your underwear. Very deep cover and it’s really called Thunderwear. So, there is some marketing toward this and strange places that you can find guns.

Evan Nappen 09:28

Recently, I had a client who had a gun in a golf bag and that wasn’t intentional. But you know what’s interesting is that the gun made it through a whole bunch of security, not intentionally, he just forgot that it was there. He had no clue. It was a Derringer, and I wondered how it could get through. But in terms of metal, a Derringer could easily look like the head of a putter, and it was in a golf bag. What they’re seeing, if they’re not trained to look, they might think oh, just the head of another golf club in there. So, I guess that could have been how it got through. These are always fascinating when you hear about how things can be hidden, intentionally or unintentionally, and places that really, normally you wouldn’t think of putting a firearm. But firearms are pretty flexible as to where you want to put them.

Evan Nappen 10:27

Of course, there’s a whole array of books for hiding guns in books. Hiding guns with magnets under tables and desks. All kinds of sneaky places where you can have guns hidden. The idea of that hidden gun is the ability to have that surprise and have that edge. So, sometimes there’s validity to having a gun hidden, and it can give you that security edge. Some of these places definitely take that way too far. I’ve had any number of cases where guns were not just concealed, but even accidentally concealed. It falls out of a pocket. The person doesn’t even know it, and then it ends up between the seats. And then a problem later.

Evan Nappen 11:21

Many times, I’ve had, and this is something as a concealed carrier, or as a person who carries firearms, one of the things you have to be very aware of is when you go to the bathroom with your gun. This is something where I’ve had a number of cases where individuals accidentally leave their guns in the bathroom. Because what happens is you take your gun out of the holster to take your pants down to go to the bathroom, you forget that you did that, and people leave their guns in the bathroom. Then you’re in trouble because they get the gun, and they call you in. There are issues, and you can lose your license or worse. So, one of the things I strongly suggest is never removing your gun from the holster when you go to the bathroom. When you pull your pants down with your gun on the outside of the pants, or inside it, flip your underwear over the gun and leave it that way so that it stays there. That way you will not accidentally forget it. Lots of times, folks take it out, and they rest it on the toilet paper holder or whatever. Again, looking at their cell phone and boom, they forget their gun. I’ve had many of Page – 4 – of 8

those cases through the years of guns being forgotten, left behind, because they were removed in a public bathroom. Try to make a practice of not doing that. It may save you from a lot of grief and a lot of aggravation.

Evan Nappen 13:00

Today I was thinking about a case I had a while back, and it was a very interesting case. It came up thinking about how there’s laws that they pass, they being the anti-gunners and such. They pass laws that they know are going to have a virtual impossibility of getting enforced, but they pass them anyway. If you look at what’s going on in New Jersey, they’re passing laws that they have to know are going to be found unconstitutional, but they’re passing them anyway. Lots of times there’s an arrogance to what these politicians pass, even though they know they either can’t be enforced, won’t be enforced, or are going to be found unconstitutional. Yet they still pass them.

Evan Nappen 13:54

One of the things that came to mind was a case with a fella who gave me a call that his guns were seized pursuant to a claim of domestic violence, but as is common in New Jersey, there was nothing to it and the domestic violence matter was dismissed. But once the guns and things are seized, then you have to fight to get your rights and your guns back even though the restraining order, the temporary restraining order, was unfounded. It doesn’t matter. You still have to go through the whole fight. And of course, if anything’s found when the guns are seized, then that can create an escalation to criminal charges of all sorts or a criminal investigation. And that’s what happened here. There was a criminal investigation, and this was one that was a bit outside the norm. After his guns were seized and he called me, we were going to move to get them back and do what we had to do. We got a contact from the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Unit, and they want to talk to my client about what was confiscated from him. And I’m like, wow, that’s a new one, a client with, you know what? Nukes? I mean, what? Weapons of mass destruction from a DV seizure? What is this? What is going on with this?

Evan Nappen 15:22

Normally you want to not say anything, you want to remain silent all that, and you always want to have your attorney. But given the nature of this, we did meet with the FBI, and I told my client not to say anything, of course. We’ll hear them out and see what the deal is. Well, it ends up what my client was doing is he had a job working in a junkyard, and this was his bona fide, documented job. One of the things that he was doing in the scrap yard, the scrap junkyard, for his boss, was they were getting all these old thermostats. Just routine, getting them. And one of the things he was doing was removing the old Mercury switches from the thermostats, and they would, I guess, recycle, sell the mercury. So, he had a bucket of mercury switches, and it came through as mercury switches. Well, it was nothing. He wasn’t making bombs or weapons of mass destruction. He had a bucket, and this was his job. We verified that he was to take these things apart and do that. So, we were able to make that clear.

Evan Nappen 16:33

But you see, even though his job was to do that, and this was completely innocent, and no problem, when they raided his home, he also had books that he had purchased at the gun show. Any of you that have been to gun shows know that you can get all kinds of books and all kinds of interesting things. Page – 5 – of 8

There are books that are actually on weapons. There are military manuals on weapons, on improvised weapons, and on things like that. It’s called the First Amendment, folks. You can have the knowledge. You can read about it. In my own practice, I need to know about these things because I get cases that involve these very things. There are all kinds of reasons. You want to write interesting crime stories and novels. You want to know this stuff. Just knowledge for the sake of knowledge. Oh, no, no, some books were found. The same books anyone could buy at a gun show or anywhere online, same deal.

Evan Nappen 17:39

The FBI was questioning him, and the reason they really wanted to talk to him, I finally found out. I’m like, look, you guys know these are mercury switches from thermostats. What brought you into this? What is it? Why the weapon of mass destruction unit? And here’s the thing I thought was very interesting. Oh, no. Well, one of the books, one of the books found was a book by Uncle Fester. I swear to God. This is a pseudonym this guy. It was Uncle Festers, I think, Kitchen Table Guide, maybe to making gunpowder or something. Just a book on something like that. But anyway, one of his books like that. And so what? He wasn’t making gun powder. Even if he did, it was something of interest. I don’t even know, legally, if you could or couldn’t, but he wasn’t. So what? It’s just knowledge. Doesn’t matter.

Evan Nappen 18:32

But it wasn’t that the book was illegal, you see. What they wanted was to know if my client knew this author. It’s like what? He didn’t know this author. He bought a book, but they just wanted to know if he knew the author. I can’t believe we’re going down this path over a book. And so, what if he did, but he didn’t? I mean, what is that? Oh, well, you see, it so happens that this guy Uncle Fester apparently wrote another book. This is the one my client had, by the way. But apparently, he wrote another book called something like the kitchen table guide to making methamphetamine or some drug book. And he’s actually a bona fide chemist, this author. Even though he goes by that. I guess he’s like a real Walter White or something. I don’t know. I don’t know. Whatever it was, the FBI said, we find his book in every meth lab. We want to get this guy. Okay, but that has nothing to do with my client. What’s it? Well, there’s this law that Dianne Feinstein put forward. And I’m like, what law? A law where if you teach how to make explosives or other things for use in terrorism, this whole weird thing, that you can be prosecuted for that. Well, my guy did nothing. He has nothing to do with that. Well, we’re trying to get this Uncle Fester guy.

Evan Nappen 20:01

So, they are trying to get this guy, and they’re trying to use this law that is essentially a standing violation of the First Amendment. What they have to show to even keep its constitutionality can’t even be demonstrated, and they even told me, yeah, this law has been on the books for a while, but there’s never been a single prosecution under it. Because you can’t even achieve it. Because of the First Amendment issues that are there. The whole thing is ridiculous. I’m looking back and saying I can’t believe the amount of time we wasted over this targeting of an individual by trying to find the crime. Okay, it isn’t the crime and then investigate and find that, but find a crime to fit the guy and try to do it through the guy I’m representing over all this nonsense. Page – 6 – of 8

Evan Nappen 20:55

And I’m thinking, this is really, more and more from that point on, I saw that, unfortunately, a lot of law enforcement gets done in that way. Find the crime that fits the man. That’s what they’re looking for. That’s how they’re trying to do it. If you look around at how the politicization of our Justice Department of these agencies and this whole focus on who they’re trying to get. It’s not the investigation of the crime anymore. It’s who they’re trying to get. In the general big picture, New Jersey is trying to get gun owners, literally trying to get them. If you look at this bill, this A4769, it is engineered to get yah. It’s engineered so that that gun owner has this matrix, a matrix of impossibility, so we can get them. You may say I’m just really cynical, but you know what? I’ve been doing this 35 plus years now, and I see it. That’s why the fight for our rights is more important than ever. These are the hurdles, in effect, the failings of our system that need to be improved. When we come back, I’m going to tell you how you get an authentic, original, actual military .45 1911 from the source.

Speaker 3 22:40

For over 30 years, Attorney Evan Nappen has seen what rotten laws do to good people. That’s why he’s dedicated his life to fighting for the rights of America’s gun owners. A fearsome courtroom litigator fighting for rights, justice, and freedom. An unrelenting gun rights spokesman tearing away at anti-gun propaganda to expose the truth. Author of six best-selling books on gun rights, including Nappen on Gun Law, a bright orange gun law Bible that sits atop the desk of virtually every lawyer, police chief, firearms dealer, and savvy gun owner. That’s what made Evan Nappen America’s Gun Lawyer. Gun laws are designed to make you a criminal. Don’t become the innocent victim of a vicious anti-gun legal system. This is the guy you want on your side. Keep his name and number in your wallet and hope you never have to use it. But if you live, work, or travel with a firearm, the deck is already stacked against you. You can find him on the web at EvanNappen.com or follow the link on the Gun Lawyer resource page. Evan Nappen – America’s Gun Lawyer.

Speaker 3 23:54

You’re listening to gun lawyer with Attorney Evan Nappen. Available wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Evan Nappen 24:00

Welcome back to Gun Lawyer. I’m Evan Nappen, and I’m so happy that you’re joining me so that I can convey some really interesting thoughts and maybe even useful information in your life. I’m going to give you a tip right now that some of you may not be aware of, but I think this is pretty cool. I don’t know if you’re aware of what used to be called the DCM. The DCM was Division of Civilian Marksmanship. In the old days with DCM, I guess I call myself old. Through the DCM, you could buy military arms directly from the U.S. Government as a civilian for competition. The theory was to keep citizens with firearms so that they could practice their marksmanship skills with. It was to keep us a nation of rifleman and shooters. And it was great because I bought my M1 Garand rifle. They were extremely reasonable, a crazy reasonable price. It cost me $93 for an M1 Garand. They’ve sold through DCM M1 Carbines. I think they were what $15 to $20 bucks a piece. Even 1911 .45s. They were $20 bucks whatever, crazy low prices. Page – 7 – of 8

Evan Nappen 25:47

The thing is, when you bought the guns, they would ship them directly to your door, which was really cool. I remember when my Garand came into the local post office. I guess it arrived after hours like the post office was closed. I got a call from the Postmaster. We have this package, and I prefer you to come in now and pick it up. They didn’t want to hold it over the weekend. I’m like, okay, no problem. I was psyched, man. Yeah, got there. Got that M1 Garand from the DCM. Then one point later, they had a lottery. A lottery that if your name got picked, you were able to buy an M1 D. A sniper M1 Garand. The M1 D sniper. This is an original, authentic, military Garand Sniper rifle, and it came with everything. All the accessories – the scope, the container for the scope, the sling, the cheek pad, everything. It was just loaded with goodies. It’s all original, authentic right from the government. I was so psyched that my name got picked, and I was able to buy it just ridiculously cheap. An M1 D sniper rifle. When it came in, I was so excited, and I opened it. Oh my God, I couldn’t believe it. It was a Winchester M1 D sniper M1 Garand. I still have that gun. What a fantastic M1 Garand, and I got that through the DCM.

Evan Nappen 27:35

So, I’ve always appreciated the DCM and the ability. But the DCM ended up no longer existing. The DCM was replaced by the CMP. The Civilian Marksmanship Program. In so doing, they still offer firearms of different types. They are a little bit different than the way that DCM did things and not as cheap as you used to be able to buy from the DCM. But still some good deals. Anyway, they offer rifles at different times, M1 Garands. There are even a couple stores throughout the U.S. You can actually go there and look and buy guns from the CMP. But here’s the key thing. As fun as the CMP is, they now have what they’re calling Round 3 of the 1911 sales. Now, this is really special. This is where the CMP is selling actual United States issue M 1911 A1 pistols that had been put in storage. They’re releasing them and selling them to the public that qualify and get picked for the CMP program.

Evan Nappen 29:11

Apparently, they extended the cutoff date, and they didn’t say to what date, but I still think you’re able to get into this. What you have to do is go to the CMP website, Civilian Marksmanship Program. https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/1911-information/ Just Google CMP 1911 information, and it’ll come up. It’s free to put in your paperwork. You put in your paperwork, an application about you, and you have to belong to a CMP Affiliated Club. By the way, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is such an affiliated club, and you should belong to the ANJRPC just to protect your gun rights if nothing else. But there’s a bonus because they are a CMP recognized club. If you read through the requirements, it’s not that tough. You submit the app(lication), and then what happens is they send you a lottery number.

Evan Nappen 30:19

At some point in the future, you hope that you get called and the odds are very good that you will get a call, where you’re able to purchase directly from the Government, a 1911. Now they don’t ship it to your door. It does go to a dealer these days. But still, they’re pretty cool because they have different grades of the 1911 that they sell. The highest grade that you might be able to buy at the time, it depends on what they have available, is what they call Service Grade. Now, the Service Grade is $1,250, and there’s a Field Grade for $1150. The Rack Grade is $1050, and the Range Grade is $1100. But I’m going to tell you right now, any of these guns that you get, they’re worth double as soon as you get Page – 8 – of 8

them. They’re just all great, original, authentic 1911 A1’s military, from the military, from storage in the military.

Evan Nappen 31:22

So, you just can’t go wrong buying one of these. For the history and for just the quality of military production. And you never know what you may get. You never know what maker, too, because there’s a lot of cool ones. You might get a Remington, Rand or Colt or any of the other fine makers, Ithaca, etc, that made the 1911 A1. I don’t think you’re going to get the Singer Sewing Machine one though. I think they pull them out if they find any. They are very rare and extremely expensive. But look, it’s a great deal, and you’re only allowed to get one of them. So, if you got one in Round 1 or Round 2, you can’t do Round 3. But if you have never purchased your CMP 1911, go there, put in your app, get your number and get a 1911 right out of the Government arsenal that you can own for yourself. It comes in a really great case. A really super strong case that it’s shipped in and has papers of authenticity. The whole bit. It’s really a great, great investment. So, that’s a tip from your favorite Gun Lawyer. Check that out and jump on that program. All right, this is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 3 33:05

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media Production. The music used in his broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S2 E107_Transcript

About The Host@media only screen and (max-width:1024px) {.fusion-title.fusion-title-11{margin-top:!important;margin-bottom:20px!important;}}Evan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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