Episode 153-153-We’re from the Government… We’re Here To Help
Also Available OnPodcast TranscriptGun Lawyer Episode 153

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

gun, guns, suppressors, rights, new jersey, firearm, people, evan, law, great, felons, kill, second amendment rights, lawyer, gun rights, anti, carry, suicide, holster, hunting

SPEAKERS

Speaker 3, Evan Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:00

Hi. I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I like to use my opportunity here to advise my listeners. When I observe problems that gun owners seem to repeatedly find themselves in and we can learn from others mistakes, that’s really important because that means less of us will be having to deal with these problems. The problems that these individuals go through can serve the purpose of helping others not to fall into the trap. Now, what I’m going to talk about is somewhat politically incorrect, but it needs to be said. It is critical that you understand the risks that occur when you bring the Government into your life or agencies that are closely connected to the Government. And let me just preface this by saying that if anybody needs mental help or they’re suicidal and need help, then by all means, you need to get help. I don’t want anyone to interpret this as suggesting that someone who needs help, shouldn’t get help.

Evan Nappen 01:50

What I’ve seen, however, is that individuals, I just got a case this week on this very thing, will contact a suicide prevention hotline, or the VA hotline, if they’re veterans, or they tell their doctor or therapist etc., and they’re not really serious about wanting to harm themselves. They’re looking to talk about things. The problem is that as soon as you say anything along these lines, then the agency or the person on the other end of that call is going to be having the police come to you. They’re taught to delay you from even getting off the phone so that they keep you in the one place until the police get there. Then not only are your guns all taken, but you personally are taken. You’re taken away for a mandatory mental health evaluation, which itself creates a separate possible disqualifier to even get your guns back. I’ve had many of these cases where the individual was fine. They weren’t suicidal. But now the guns have been taken, and the gun licenses have been taken. And they’ve been put through this process that they never expected would happen. Now we have to fight to get the guns back and that is a costly and time-consuming fight, and it is a whole other world that this person has now, often inadvertently, put themselves into.

Evan Nappen 03:59

So, I just want to reiterate. If you need help, I want you to get help. I mean that. But you need to understand that once you make the contact and there’s any type of indication that you’re going to harm yourself or harm others, even if you don’t mean it, even if it’s just hyperbolic statements, even if it’s just blowing off steam or just feeling depressed and saying some stuff that is taken the wrong way. It Page – 2 – of 7

doesn’t matter. The police are going to be summoned. You’re going to be taken, guns are going to be taken and then, particularly in New Jersey now, there’s an effort to disenfranchise you of your Second Amendment rights.

Evan Nappen 04:50

Often these types of things will be accompanied or subsequently have filed pretty quickly what is called an ERPO, which is an Extreme Risk Protection Order, commonly called Red Flag. The ERPO is done without your having any input or say. The police simply file this ERPO based on a statement from someone such as a hotline that called them. They’ll take that ERPO, which will disarm you, take all your guns, place them subject to forfeiture, etc., and it’s going to usually have a built-in search warrant. So, your privacy gets invaded, and the search takes place. In addition to this ERPO hitting you with these factors, you’re also most of the time you are going to be taken away to be evaluated against your will. I mean, that’s it. You’re going, and you can either go voluntarily or they’re going to take you. So, you’re really not going voluntarily, are you? Because you’re being forced, and that’s how it goes. Your whole life is suddenly in a whole other realm. This is what happens.

Evan Nappen 06:11

The Red Flag or ERPO begins as what is called a TERPO, a Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Order. Then after that’s filed, they have to hold a hearing on a FERPO, which is a Final Extreme Risk Protection Order, and the final will permanently bar your gun rights, take your guns, remove you from being licensed, and prohibit you from future gun possession. If you ever possess a gun with that FERPO on you, you are committing a crime, committing a crime, a serious crime. This is how it gets all stacked, and so you better recognize this because you’re dealing with this ERPO, TERPO to FERPO. By the way, if it happens in Burlington County, you get a BURPO. I’m just joking about that. But you do get this whole ERPO, TERPO, FERPO deal, which becomes a separate fight for your rights.

Evan Nappen 07:21

When calling these hotlines, they’re not warning you about what the consequences may be. In fact, the people, I’m sure, are sincere and care about the individual. They don’t want, we don’t want our Veterans killing themselves. We don’t want anybody killing themselves or harming themselves or harming others. I’m sure it’s well intended. But as the famous quote goes about the road to hell being paved with good intentions, that’s where the gun owner ends up having to deal with – hell. Because the system is very harsh. It is going to take a serious fight of time and money to try to save your Second Amendment rights and even your personal freedom. So, keep that in mind. Keep it in mind before you take that step. If you need to take the step to get help, again, you get the help.

Evan Nappen 08:32

But, you know, I go in gun stores, and at times I’ll see posters about suicide prevention. And you know, the folks with the money that’s actually behind a lot of that suicide prevention is the Joyce Foundation, by the way, which is an anti-gun group. The anti-gunners have taken suicide as an approach to enacting gun bans, particularly in areas where there’s not high crime, and there’s low murder rate. So, they focus on suicide, and they claim that the “means” matters. So, this way they can focus on the gun, because the gun, you know, is what you kill yourself with. Well, actually, the most popular way of killing oneself for women is pills, by the way, not guns. But it doesn’t really matter about the means. They’re Page – 3 – of 7

really lying about that because there are thousands of ways to kill yourself. They’re not going to confiscate every electrical cord in your house, every razor blade, every knife, every substance that might be poisonous to consume, your car for breathing carbon monoxide, etc. The list goes on and on and on. Nor are they going to have waiting periods before you cross bridges that you could jump off of.

Evan Nappen 09:51

So, the entire thing about suicide is really just another gambit to take guns even though there is truly a mental health issue there, and people that are suicidal, that need help, should get help. I understand that. But what the antis do is look for any way that they can to wedge in to promote the anti-gun agenda over something that we might be sympathetic about. So, you’re sympathetic about stopping suicide, but they build in the anti-gun, take the guns, disenfranchise a person of guns, the entire gun thing is built into the suicide thing where hey, any normal person would say, I don’t want people killing themselves or harming themselves or harming others. Yet, this gets utilized to promote the anti-gun agenda. You see the same with domestic violence. No one should be in favor of anybody abusing anybody else. That’s outrageous. But if we can take the guns from it and use them, again, as a sympathetic factor to grab guns, well, then we’ll do that. That’s exactly what the domestic violence gun forfeiture and gun prohibition statutes do. They take something that people are sympathetic about and work in an anti-gun ploy into it.

Evan Nappen 11:22

With suicides, even domestic violence laws, you see it. Even in prohibitions on various disqualifiers that the Government makes up to take away an individual/s rights. I mean, even say to most people, do you think you should stop felons from having guns? People say, I don’t want felons to have guns. Well, let me tell you, it used to be “violent” felons. Now it’s just felons. So, should someone who has a non-violent felony conviction, which never was a danger or threat to anyone, who has gone 10 to 20 years without any problems, still be prohibited? Because they still are prohibited. Felons cannot have guns, and you have that broad stroke. So, again, it accomplishes the purpose. Not just there, but also for the institutionalized racism that goes into it because of the ridiculous extreme ratio of blacks being six to one more likely to be felons than whites and Hispanics at two to one. You accomplish your institutionalized racist agenda barring minorities at a greater rate than whites when you have that. These are all underlying things, and they all get incorporated into taking things that people might generally, on its face, agree with and say, I want to do something about felons not having guns or I don’t want domestic violence abusers to have guns, or I think that there may be a link about suicides that their guns get taken, you know. At first, you might say, well, I kind of understand that. But when you look deeper, what you see is that many law-abiding citizens are getting deprived of their Second Amendment rights. Their ability to restore those rights is difficult, if not impossible, and the system creates these setups.

Evan Nappen 13:19

So, what do we do about it? Well, you better recognize that’s the purpose of this show is to cut through it so that you recognize that there are traps out there being laid, and you have to be smart. You have to make those right choices, and you better know that once you get the Government in your life, it can go sideways very quickly. And often. The regrets that I hear over and over again, is why did I do that? Why did I call them? Why did I make that call that got the agency or the Government involved? They just Page – 4 – of 7

have regrets. So, we don’t want you to have regrets. But again, we want you to get help if you need help. It’s a tough situation. But I feel that if individuals at least have the knowledge about what the impact can be, and then make their choice, then that’s good. If they need help and do it, that’s fine. Just be careful about never making any threats to any medical professional, therapist, doctor, or Government person. If anybody threats to kill someone or threats to kill yourself, hearing that can be enough for a Red Flag or TERPO. By simply saying those words, evan the hyperbolic statement of “I’m so mad I could kill that person” or “I have had such a lousy day, I could kill myself.” Saying those things can throw you into this ridiculous, outrageous matrix set up to take away your rights. I’ve had many, many cases where that’s all the person said, and that’s all it took. We’re fighting for their rights. So, be very careful. Those hyperbolic statements cannot be said. It’s the equivalent of making a bomb joke at the airport. It doesn’t fly. You’re just going to get yourself in big trouble. So, keep that in mind when you’re trying to remain a law-abiding gun owner. These are the hurdles that they put there, the traps and the tricks. So, beware.

Evan Nappen 15:48

Hey, let me tell you, I am so thrilled that WeShoot is a sponsor of our show. WeShoot is a great range down in Lakewood, New Jersey. A buddy of mine just went to WeShoot. I recommended it, and he was so thrilled. He said man, those guys are the best. They took such great care. Really, they are good. I mean, seriously, it was just great. I knew they would, and he got a joint family membership. I can’t wait to do the shoot they have coming up on October 11 of the ballistic gummy bear, “Blast-A-Bear”. The giant gummy bear that you get to shoot up. It’s a lot of fun. They have great courses and great people. Super friendly, super nice and, man, you are family. You are treated like family. No exaggeration, you really are. You’ve got to check out WeShoot. They have great training. You can get your certificate for your carry under the new standards, which is substantially simplified, as I’ve talked about on the other show. It focuses now on what you should focus on, which is core competency. They’ll be able to get you to that core competency and show that you can safely handle a firearm to meet the standard of New Jersey’s requirements. Check out WeShoot at weshootusa.com. A great indoor range. I’m sure you’ll be happy that you did. I’ll see you in a few.

Speaker 3 17:37

For over 30 years Attorney Evan Nappen has seen what rotten laws do to good people. That’s why he’s dedicated his life to fighting for the rights of America’s gun owners. A fearsome courtroom litigator fighting for rights, justice, and freedom. An unrelenting gun rights spokesman tearing away at anti-gun propaganda to expose the truth. Author of six bestselling books on gun rights including Nappen on Gun Law, a bright orange gun law Bible that sits atop the desk of virtually every lawyer, police chief, firearms dealer, and savvy gun owner. That’s what made Evan Nappen America’s Gun Lawyer. Gun laws are designed to make you a criminal. Don’t become the innocent victim of a vicious anti-gun legal system. This is the guy you want on your side. Keep his name and number in your wallet, and hope you never have to use it. But if you live, work, or travel with a firearm, the deck is already stacked against you. You can find him on the web at EvanNappen.com or follow the link on the Gun Lawyer resource page. Evan Nappen – America’s Gun Lawyer. Page – 5 – of 7

Speaker 3 18:49

You’re listening to Gun Lawyer with Attorney Evan Nappen. Available wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Evan Nappen 19:07

Welcome back to Gun Lawyer. The number one rated gun rights podcast in the world according to Feedspot, which rates those kinds of things. I’m very proud of that. I’m also very proud that I have the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs as a sponsor of the show. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is on the frontlines of the battle for our rights in New Jersey. Every one of you should be a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs which you can reach on the web at anjrpc.org. Join them. They are the NRA affiliate for New Jersey, and they’re currently in the courts litigating against the Carry-Killer law. They work very closely, as a matter of fact but myself, my colleague and good friend, Dan Schmutter, and of course, Scott Bock, the Executive Director. We were able to work with the Attorney General’s office to get those outrageous training requirements substantially reduced to core competency. We were able to get the No Serial Number (NSN) gun debacle handled, instead of having millions of guns banned. Like I said, they’re in the courts and are fighting legislatively. They’re actually accomplishing many great things for our gun rights. Be part of the solution and join the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs at anjrpc.org.

Evan Nappen 20:41

Now is the time when I shamelessly promote my book. Yes, my book New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law, and it is the 25th Anniversary Edition. It was a labor of love. It was hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of man hours to write, and it is fully updated. With updates that you can get for free. So, when you order the book, get your base book, and I have free updates at the Subscriber Portal. All you do is scan the QR code on the front cover and register on the Subscriber Portal. You will get alerts as to the new updates. Go to the Subscriber Portal anytime, and you can download the new updates to keep your book current. It becomes a living book that stays current. Under New Jersey gun law, which is a hard thing to do, but I’m doing it. I’m doing it for you. So, get the book and get the free updates. Know the law and protect yourself so you don’t end up a victim of New Jersey gun laws. If you want to buy this book, you can go to EvanNappen.com. That’s right, my name.com. EvanNappen.com Look for the big orange book and click it. You’ll have it in a matter of days. So, check that out.

Evan Nappen 21:56

Hey, I got some great letters here from folks, and I wanted to share some of these with you because these are questions that I see repeated. They often come to me, and I’m happy to answer them. So, here’s one from Anthony. Anthony says regarding suppressors. Good afternoon. Let me start off by saying I’m an avid listener to the podcast, and I thank you for all the great information provided in your content. I have a quick question for you regarding suppressors. Why are we unable to own suppressors in New Jersey considering that the ATF and federal government have classified them to be “arms” and or “firearms”? Furthermore, wouldn’t a Bruen decision give us precedence to overturn New Jersey’s currently unconstitutional law? Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. I can’t wait until this week’s podcast. Anthony. Page – 6 – of 7

Evan Nappen 22:50

Well, thank you, Anthony. I appreciate the question, and I do love suppressors. Suppressors are really great for hearing protection. It means that you can fire your gun and protect your hearing while you do so. Unfortunately, they were prohibited under federal law in the 1934 Machine Gun Act. They are federally regulated in which you pay a $200 tax and have to go through the feds. If you do that under federal law, you’re legal, but a number of states still prohibit them. Unfortunately, New Jersey is one of them. If you really think about it, a suppressed firearm is probably one of the more ideal house guns because if you’re shooting a handgun inside your house, you want to keep your hearing. You don’t have muffs on because you’re not going to hear the noises that may be there. But the suppressor is able to protect your hearing so you can listen. It’s also another reason why they are preferred for hunting because you can do that same thing. You can still protect your hearing and not have to close off your hearing to hear other things. They also can reduce recoil as well. They’re great for training shooting. There are many positive things about suppressors.

Evan Nappen 24:14

Unfortunately, in the 1930s, given the Hollywood movies about their use for assassination and all those bad things, just like the other things that Hollywood has blown out of proportion. The ’34 Act passed, and suppressors were included in it. There have been great efforts to try to repeal these suppressor laws across the country to allow hunting with suppressors. They’ve had some good success with that, but unfortunately, when it comes to expanding gun rights, New Jersey is always behind the curve. Now, maybe one day, we will see a Bruen challenge, a Second Amendment challenge, constitutionality on suppressors. But at the moment, there are so many other steps and things that are being taken in challenges to build up to the various steps of challenging other things. For instance, we’re starting off just trying to gain our rights on carry and defeating sensitive places, working on trying to defeat magazine bans and so-called assault firearm bans, which are really just modern sporting rifles. We still have these things that are more pressing, and with the winds that we’re going to see on these, we’re making great progress.

Evan Nappen 25:42

We can build on that, too, eventually challenging the entire National Firearms Act. There’s no reason why machine guns should be prohibited or suppressors or so-called sawed-off shotguns any of that. A firearm is a firearm. The law is quite arbitrary and stupid. And it is not helpful at all. In fact, the suppressor law is causing people otherwise who could have their hearing protected. Could you imagine if we required cars not to have mufflers? No mufflers on cars. I mean, let’s face it. A car has a muffler. Some bank robbers could get away, and you don’t hear their car because it has a muffler. So, I guess we need to remove all mufflers so we can spot any car at any time and know what they’re doing. I mean, it’s just absurd, the idea of stopping hunting with silencers. Well, you know, there’s this entire season of silent hunting called bow hunting. So, what does that have to do with anything? It’s just more ridiculousness and just prejudice toward the media. A media-created scary thing. You know, the way they want you to be scared about ghost guns and assault weapons, whose only purpose is to kill hundreds of people, and pistol braces that make guns so powerful. And on and on with their garbage. So, suppressors are right up there as they sell their snake oil. Page – 7 – of 7

Evan Nappen 27:22

As we slowly but surely make our progress, I believe that one day we will see freedom when it comes to suppressors, especially when we get political change. There have been legislative attempts to make purchase of a suppressor the same as buying a rifle or handgun. And that would be a fine, intermediate step to getting toward freedom on that. So, we’ve seen these things. But, while the folks that want to take our rights, mainly the Democrats, are in power, you’re not going to see it. So, we need to get people that support our rights, mainly Republicans that are willing to pass this legislation. As long as the rights takers stay in office and in power, our ability to get these changes, legislatively, is hampered. So, remember that come the election. Vote out the rights takers, instead support those that want to increase our rights and our liberty. It’s pretty much common sense on that. So, there’s a little helpful hint when it comes to making difficult political decisions. Yeah, who’s taking our rights and who isn’t? I’m voting for the one that isn’t taking our rights and maybe even wanting to give us rights back that never should have been taken in the first place.

Evan Nappen 28:47

Now I have another great letter here. This letter is from Richard, and Richard wants to know regarding concealed carry in a vehicle. What is the proper method of carrying your handgun while driving? Does it have to be on your person, or can you have a holster under your steering column? The answer to that is no. You need to carry your gun in the correct holster concealed on your person. You can’t have one of those steering column holsters. You really can’t do that. It needs to be on your person and concealed properly with the proper holster that covers the trigger guard and securely holds it in place and covers the main body of the firearm. It’s the requirement for both a proper holster and that you have it essentially on your person. Now, if you have it on your person loaded in your vehicle that is legal. They tried to stop that in New Jersey. They tried to say no, you can’t have a loaded handgun in your motor vehicle even with a permit to carry. We call that the Carjacker Protection Bill or the Carjacker Protection Law that Murphy signed, but that was stayed by the courts and is continued to be stayed. So, you can have the loaded firearm in a holster, properly concealed on your person in your vehicle. But as far as one of those steering column rigs or having it in the console or your glove box, etc. No, don’t do that. Hey, this is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 3 30:46

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E153_transcript

About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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