Episode 148-USA to God: “No Thank You”
Also Available OnPodcast TranscriptGun Lawyer Episode 148

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

persevere, law, new jersey, firearms, motto, coin, gun, gun rights, biden, liberty, mint, days, coinage, trust, perseverance, dealer, god, handgun, carry, great

SPEAKERS

Speaker 3, Evan Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:00

Hi, I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer, the number one Gun Rights podcast in the world, according to Feedspot. I’m very proud of that. And I thank you, the listeners, for making that so. We want to stay in that number one slot. So, I’m going to do my best to see that that happens. I want to talk to you about something I found very interesting. It is related to gun rights, related to our rights, related to liberty, and related to freedom. I want to point out to you, the listener, that the U.S. Mint has dropped the phrase “In God We Trust” from their new Liberty coin. That’s right. It is no longer “In God We Trust” on the American Liberty 2023 Silver Coin. Now this coin that they came out with is an exact copy, if you will, of the Gold Liberty Coin. Now the Gold Liberty Coin does have $100 face value, and the Gold Liberty Coin says, “In God We Trust”. But the silver version of it does not have the motto on the coin anymore.

Evan Nappen 01:48

Now, let me tell you, the motto on American coinage has been a subject of debate for a number of years, but it was essentially resolved in 1908 with and by Theodore Roosevelt. But before I get into that, I want to tell you what the new motto is that actually appears on the American Liberty 2023 Silver Coin. By the way, you can see this coin at the official U.S. Mint website. As far as I know, this 2023 edition, although limited, is still available. If any of you want to purchase this coin, go to the U.S. Mint. I believe you can still purchase it. It’s priced at $2, and it is one ounce of silver. The new motto on the coin says, and I quote, “WE SHALL PERSEVERE”. Not kidding. I want you to think about for a moment. That during the Biden administration, the motto on the “Liberty” coin isn’t about God anymore. But rather, We Shall Persevere. Man, I think that pretty much sums up what we’re doing, particularly as gun owners, under the Biden administration.

Evan Nappen 03:31

Just think about what “We Shall Persevere” even means. One of the things that I think about when I hear the term perseverance and a command to persevere, is one of my favorite movies. Some of you may recall, The Outlaw Josey Wales, and the scene when he encounters the old Cherokee chief who talks about being told to persevere. If any of you need a refresher on that, I happen to have the clip right here. Mr. Producer, if you would play the clip from Josey Wales about perseverance. Page – 2 – of 7

04:27

You know, we got to see the Secretary of the Interior, and he said, “Boy, you boys sure look civilized.” He congratulated us, and he gave us medals for looking so civilized. We told him about how our land had been stolen and our people were dying. When we finished, he shook our hands and said endeavor to persevere. They stood us in a line: John Jumper, Chili McIntosh, Buffalo Hump, and Jim Buckmark, and me. I’m Lone Watie. They took our pictures, and the newspapers said, “Indians vow to endeavor to persevere.” We thought about it for a long time. “Endeavor to persevere.” And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union.

Evan Nappen 05:40

Ah, there you go. The famous quote from Josey Wales about “endeavor to persevere”. And now, the U.S. Mint in 2023 has come out with the Liberty coin that essentially advises us the same thing. We shall persevere. Perseverance, I guess, is the new mandate. And you know, as gun owners, we’ve had to persevere through a barrage of anti-gun overreach by the Biden administration. We’ve had to deal with banning pistol braces by retroactively attempting to turn them into short barrel rifles, thereby stopping millions of people in their tracks and arguably turning them into federal felons if they possess a braced handgun. Of course, the brace on a handgun only does one thing to the handgun and that is make it more accurate and allow, particularly for combat wounded veterans and other handicapped persons, and just ordinary folks to be able to shoot their handgun more accurately. And of course, when you attach a pistol brace, it only makes the gun larger, less concealable. So, you know, but hey, it’s a way to go at what, 30 million law-abiding gun owners, and turn them into felons by administrative overreach. They didn’t get that passed as a law through Congress. No, they just abused their agency discretion and action by imposing it. This has been the tactic that Biden has done to gun owners, forcing us to persevere.

Evan Nappen 07:39

He’s done the same with trying to redefine what a firearm frame is. These extended out in a campaign to aggressively revoke firearm dealers, legitimate Federal Firearm Licensees, and have their license with zero tolerance for mere paperwork errors. I mean, there is major perseverance having to take place. Now Biden is talking about limiting our ability to make a private sale without being charged with being an unlicensed dealer under federal law. That’s what’s coming down the pike, wanting to limit our ability. If you sell a firearm “for a profit”, it doesn’t matter, under what they’re proposing, whether you’re engaged in the livelihood of being a dealer, that used to be what was in the law. But the so- called Bi-Partisan gun bill that was passed by Democrats and Rhino Republicans removed the “livelihood” provision. Now Biden is going to jump all over that and turn millions of otherwise law-abiding gun owners into unlicensed dealers, because they have the nerve to sell a firearm that they lawfully acquired and happen to make a profit. The perseverance is serious. And it continues as an attack on our Second Amendment rights. And here, the U.S. Mint has dumped “In God We Trust” for that very warning, We Shall Persevere. But I’ll tell you what. We as gun owners sure will persevere. And as we do that, we’re going to continue to fight for our rights. I think we should all think about what we shall persevere means just like the Chief talked about it. Think long and hard about it. Our response will come about in this election. Because it’s this election, where we can end the perseverance and regain our liberty. Page – 3 – of 7

Evan Nappen 10:19

We’re going to talk to you about our great state Association, by the way, who is fighting every day for this liberty. They are a sponsor of our show, and we are so proud to have them on board. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is the number one defender of gun rights in New Jersey. They are fighting these laws that the State has put forward, following the Biden administration’s agenda, of course. These laws include trying to kill our ability to carry with their Carry Killer anti-Civil Rights law, the attack on so-called assault firearms, which are nothing more than modern sporting rifles, and going after large capacity magazines, which we know are standard capacity magazines, and a host of other things. The Association has a full time lobbyist down in Trenton keeping an eye on things and helping us to fight. They’re in the federal courts litigating. Every one of you should be a member of our state Association, even if you don’t live in New Jersey because these laws spread. New Jersey is the frontline of the battle for our gun rights. A major force on that front line is the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. You can find them at anjrpc.org.

Speaker 3 11:55

For over 30 years attorney Evan Nappen has seen what rotten laws do to good people. That’s why he’s dedicated his life to fighting for the rights of America’s gun owners. A fearsome courtroom litigator fighting for rights, justice, and freedom. An unrelenting gun rights spokesman tearing away at anti-gun propaganda to expose the truth. Author of six bestselling books on gun rights including Nappen on Gun Law, a bright orange gun law Bible that sits atop the desk of virtually every lawyer, police chief, firearms dealer, and savvy gun owner. That’s what made Evan Nappen America’s Gun Lawyer. Gun laws are designed to make you a criminal. Don’t become the innocent victim of a vicious anti-gun legal system. This is the guy you want on your side. Keep his name and number in your wallet and hope you never have to use it. But if you live, work, or travel with a firearm, the deck is already stacked against you. You can find him on the web at EvanNappen.com or follow the link on the Gun Lawyer resource page. Evan Nappen – America’s Gun Lawyer.

Speaker 3 13:13

You’re listening to Gun Lawyer with Attorney Evan Nappen. Available wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Evan Nappen 13:19

I’m Evan Nappen, and I want to tell you about a great range facility that we have the fortunate ability to take advantage of and that is WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, New Jersey. It’s located extremely conveniently in Central Jersey. They’re accessible by folks from Monmouth County and Ocean County. It is a great place where you can shoot. You know having a place to shoot is just as important as having a gun to shoot. You have got to practice. You have got to understand your gun, and it needs your skills honed. That is the place to go. They’re a great group of folks, super friendly. They have tremendous training programs, and they have top notch folks that run them. If you need to get certified to get your carry permit for the new training requirements, they can absolutely help you out. They’ve certified hundreds and hundreds of folks so they can get their New Jersey carry license, and you can take advantage of that. They can help you whether you’re a beginner or an expert. It is a great resource in Lakewood, New Jersey, where the WeShoot indoor range is located. If you’re interested, Page – 4 – of 7

please check out WeShoot. Their website is weshootusa.com. They often run sales and specials, and they have all kinds of good things. Check out WeShoot. You’ll be glad you did. weshootusa.com.

Evan Nappen 15:18

I also want to mention my book. I’m very proud of my book. It is called New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the 25th Anniversary Edition. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s 500 pages, and it includes 120 topics, all question and answers so that you can actually understand New Jersey gun law. That’s why it’s used by lawyers and judges and law enforcement and law-abiding citizens throughout the state to understand this ridiculous matrix and to be able to navigate it so that you don’t end up becoming a law-abiding criminal. One of the greatest things about the new book is the QR code, right on the front cover, that you need to scan. You will, for free, not much is free these days, but this is free, get the updates and the ability to get into the Subscriber Portal and archive. You can download all the updates. You will be receiving from me email alerts as to the latest changes in the law, whether it’s statutory or a court decision, or the attorney general opinion, anything and everything that you need to know so that your book and you can remain current on New Jersey gun law. There are going to be some things very shortly coming down the pike. I can’t talk about them now, but they’re exciting. You’re going to want to know about them. So, make sure you subscribe to that free Subscriber Portal that you can gain right on the cover of the new book. This way you’ll be able to stay on top of it all.

Evan Nappen 17:08

We were talking about the motto and the dropping of “In God We Trust” on the new Liberty coin. But what’s funny is the controversy over “In God We Trust” also goes back to Teddy Roosevelt. It’s kind of interesting and I always was fascinated about it because of the currency of U.S., the coinage and such. Roosevelt one day was going through the museum in D.C. He was looking at Roman coinage and how beautiful many of the Roman coins were. He says, why can’t the U.S. have coins as magnificent as the ancients had? Due to his efforts, they were able to get one of the top sculptors of the day, Augustus Saint-Gaudens. Augustus Saint-Gaudens designed what is the classic $20 gold coin that is the most beautiful, considered the most beautiful, coin ever made in America. That $20 gold piece when it came out in 1907 did not have the motto on it of “In God We Trust”. It had no moto on it at all. It caused controversy when they dropped the motto from the coin. At the time, Roosevelt said he did not want “In God We Trust” on coins. Some of you may say why? Was he an atheist? Was he against God? No furthest thing from it. He believed, as many religious leaders did at the time, that God’s name didn’t belong on money. Money could be spent on all kinds of things. And if you’re buying alcohol or you’re buying some lady of the night or whatever and you’re spending “In God We Trust” currency, it’s not the greatest thing.

Evan Nappen 19:13

Additionally, he felt that it was a subject of levity and people would make fun of “In God We Trust” on coins. You may have heard other jokes about that, you know, “in God we trust – all of others pay cash” and that kind of thing. So, although it was highly controversial, the Federal government did pass the 1908 law that mandated that “In God We Trust” be placed on coins. I just wanted to point out the original report from the U.S. Mint back then, during Teddy Roosevelt’s time, when Roosevelt did in fact sign that law mandating it, even though he personally had opposed it for his reasons that were based on his absolute faith, and not for lack of it, but it doesn’t matter. He signed this law, and listen to what Page – 5 – of 7

the Mint said at the time, in the report of the director of the Mint. Regarding restoration of the motto then that has now been not placed on the 2023 Liberty coin of today.

Evan Nappen 20:29

What the Mint wrote was, “The motto “In God we trust” was first placed upon the bronze 2-cent piece authorized to be coined by the act of September 22, 1864. Section 5 of the act of March 3, 1865, authorizing the coinage of the 3-cent piece, provided for the placing of the motto on such coins as would admit thereof. This provision was enacted under section 18 of the act of February 12, 1873. The motto was first placed on the gold and silver coins (with the exception of the dime, which was too small) January 1, 1866. Section 3517 of the Revised Statues of the United States adopted by the act of Congress dated June 22, 1874, did not provide for the placing of the motto on any of the coins. The motto continued to be placed on the coins upon which it had previously appeared until the adoption, in 1907, . . . ”

Evan Nappen 21:33

So, when that Saint-Gauden’s came out in 1907, it didn’t have the motto. “. . . of the new designs of the double eagle and the eagle, from which it was omitted, the inscriptions and legends being confined to those authorized by section 3517 of the Revised Statutes. May 18, 1908, an act was passed by Congress restoring the motto “In God we trust” on the coins of the United States, to take effect 30 days after the passage. The motto appears on all gold and silver coins struck since July 1, 1908, with the exception of the dime.”

Evan Nappen 22:09

Yet this Liberty coin, struck in silver, does not have the motto. Then there is a little quote in the report where it quotes the act of the day. It says, “AN ACT Providing for the restoration of the motto “In God we trust” on certain denominations of the gold and silver coins of the United States. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the motto “In God we trust,” heretofore inscribed on certain denominations of the gold and silver coins of the United States of America, shall hereafter be inscribed upon all such gold and silver coins of said denominations as heretofore. SEC. 2. That this Act shall take effect thirty days after its approval by the President.” That was 30 days after May 10, 1908. There you have it, and that’s right from the Director of the Mint. And yet here we are today. I guess they believe at the Mint that this Liberty silver coin somehow doesn’t fall under the 1908 law. But whether it does or whether it doesn’t, I think the new motto, “We Shall Persevere” has other connotations to it that you can think about as we’ve discussed.

Evan Nappen 23:33

I don’t want to leave this topic of motto on coins because I want to mention about the very first moto that appeared on American coinage because that motto is actually one of my favorites. That motto appeared on the Fugio cent. The Fugio cent, also known as the Franklin cent, because it was designed by Benjamin Franklin, and it came out in 1787. But do you know what the motto was on the Fugio cent was then? It wasn’t “In God we trust”. No, that’s not what Franklin wrote. What Franklin put, and what became, was also found on the continental dollar, by the way in which the design was largely based on, that motto then was, ready for this, folks? Mind Your Business. Can you believe that? A motto on American coins called Mind Your Business. I tell you what, U.S. Mint. If you want to drop “In God we Page – 6 – of 7

trust”, maybe even have the reasons that Theodore Roosevelt was opposed to having “In God we trust” on coins, a way better motto that I would much rather see than “We Shall Persevere” is Mind Your Business. Because that is something that our Government surely needs to be reminded of.

Evan Nappen 24:58

Now I’ve received some great letters from my listeners, and I love to receive those letters. This one’s from William, and he says, regarding inheriting firearms and firearm shipping. Evan, I have a question about inheriting firearms. I have a friend whose brother died suddenly without a will. My friend was named administrator of the estate. His brother had three handguns and a shotgun. His brother lived in New Orleans, and he lives in New Jersey. He was going to ship the guns to an FFL in New Jersey, but he’s been unable to find an FFL to ship the guns to New Jersey. UPS, FedEx, USPS all have recently changed their shipping policies and no longer accept firearms from individuals. They now only accept shipments from FFL, even long guns. He is thinking about renting a car and driving up from New Orleans with the guns. What does he need to do to be legal in New Jersey? He was going to get three pistol permits and go to an FFL and do an official transfer. He and I were going to meet at an FFL to transfer the shotgun to me.

Evan Nappen 25:59

Okay, let’s talk about inheriting firearms. This comes up a lot. The interesting thing is under New Jersey law and federal law, firearms that are inherited are done so without permits, paper registration, or anything like that, as long as the person who’s the beneficiary or the one inheriting the firearm, they’re the ones that can take advantage of this, are not otherwise prohibited by law. You’re not a convicted felon, etc. They can take the guns without any paperwork or license. It literally ends the paper trail on the guns. However, if they’re going to be shipped into New Jersey, I wouldn’t advise that. Then you’re going to need to go through that FFL. But if you drive down there and you’re the beneficiary, then absolutely, you can pick up the guns and can take them back to New Jersey. You’re fine under Federal law. You’re fine under state law. You would have to check the jurisdiction of the state where you’re picking them up, but I don’t believe Louisiana has a problem, but I’m not a Louisiana gun attorney. You’d want to confirm that. But that’s how you deal with inherited firearms.

Evan Nappen 27:07

If you live in New Jersey and you acquire firearms through inheritance in New Jersey, they pass to you as the beneficiary or heir with no paperwork, license, registration, etc. Now, in this particular case, this fellow also wants to acquire the shotgun, but he’s not a beneficiary. So, because of that, he’ll need to go through a dealer. The beneficiary or heir can pick them up, bring them to New Jersey, go to a New Jersey dealer, and the New Jersey dealer can effectuate the transfer to the person who that beneficiary or heir wishes to transfer them to. But that would be a private transfer. It wouldn’t be covered by inheritance. All the licensing paperwork and dealer transaction requirements would have to take place. But for an heir that actually gets the guns, that is not required under New Jersey law or under Federal law. If you want to learn more about this, go to my book, New Jersey Gun Law – 25th Anniversary Edition. I have an entire chapter explaining inheriting firearms. Page – 7 – of 7

Evan Nappen 28:20

Then one last question here, and this is from Chris, regarding a digital permit to carry. Is it okay for a Permit to Carry holder to show police a digital permit on their phone, like an insurance card, when in possession of their guns or they need to carry these on paper? Not sure if there’s an exemption. Seems reasonable that there should be. Thanks. Well, it may seem reasonable, but New Jersey doesn’t operate on what’s reasonable, as I think many of you know. The laws specifically concerning Duty to Disclose mandate that not only do you tell the officer that you are carrying your handgun but also that you produce and display your carry permit. It does not say anywhere that a picture of it or that a digital rendition of it is sufficient. Now might it be? I don’t know. Plainly, the actual card, the actual permit is required. Whether a digital rendition of it would suffice? We don’t have an answer for that.

Evan Nappen 29:23

Now, if any of you want to be the test case, which I don’t advise, that’s one way to find out. But for now, especially in New Jersey, carry the actual permit with you whenever you’re carrying your handgun or transporting your handgun, because the obligation to disclose upon a permit holder applies whether they’re carrying it or merely transporting it. I mean cased and unloaded in your car. The way we used to do in the old days going to the range if you’re doing that, but you’re a permit holder You still have an obligation to tell the officer and produce your Permit to Carry. Permit holders are required to disclose and produce their permit. If you’re not a permit holder and transporting your firearms pursuant to the exemptions like we did in the old days, you don’t have to disclose or produce the license. As a matter of fact, if you’re carrying illegally in New Jersey, you’re not required to disclose it to the officer, either. Only permit holders are required to disclose and that’s whether they’re carrying or transporting. This is Evan Nappen, reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 3 30:49

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E148_Transcript

About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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