If you’re looking to grow your firm’s revenue and profit, consider diversifying into other areas. That can take many different forms, depending on your interests, creativity and the opportunities that come your way. But be careful. A new enterprise can become a distraction and put a strain on your business. You want to choose those that support the main business and increase its value as well as its bottom line.

In this episode, Gail talks with Julia Kirkendall, owner and principal designer, Kirkendall Design, in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Julia has been practicing design for more than 40 years and has operated her own firm for more than 30 years. Over the years she has explored various ways of diversifying into other enterprises to generate more revenues and higher profits, including opening a retail store, offering design/build services, and, most recently, creating a studio space that hosts design and lifestyle events and activities.

Gail asked Julia about her biggest challenges in starting and growing her own business. Julia said her main challenge was figuring out how to understand the value she provided to clients. Related to that, she said, was changing her mindset towards money. She had assumed clients would be more focused on price. She soon discovered, though, that “clients weren’t looking for something less expensive. They were looking for me to do a really good design job.” That gave her the confidence to charge what she felt her services were worth.

The other lesson Julia said she learned along the way was to stop trying to fix every problem that she came across in her interactions with her clients. “There are a lot of similarities between being an interior design and being a counselor,” she said. She realized for her sake and her clients’ sake, she needed to just provide a service and not involve herself in other peoples’ problems.

Julia said one of the reasons her business has been so successful is that she decided to seize opportunities when they came along. “You have to be bold,” she said. “You have to look for opportunities and jump in.” She encouraged other designers to do the same. “Don’t be afraid to walk through those doors.”

Gail asked her what other advice she had for designers looking to grow their businesses. Julia said to recognize that growth and change are good things. Also, work hard at building the team that supports your dreams, and then work hard at supporting their dreams.

Toward the end of their conversation, Julia talked at some length about her latest project, The Studio at KD. She emphasized the importance of diversifying into different revenue streams, but also ensuring that those ventures support and reinforce the main design business. “Feed the mothership” is her motto, she said.

For more details about The Studio at KD and more insights from Julia, listen to the entire podcast.

If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full shownotes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s10e5-shownotes

Mentioned in This Podcast

For more information about Julia and her firm, visit the website at kirkendalldesign.com. Learn more about The Studio at KD here.

Julia mentioned a tool that Gail had introduced her to for evaluating whether to undertake a new project or venture called an impact filter.

Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors.

Well, welcome, Julia. I’m so glad to have you on the podcast. And I’d love for us to just start and talk a little bit about how you got into interior design. Sure. You know, it’s been a long road. So that’s been over 32, probably closer to 40 years. But I’ve had Kirkendall design for 32 years. So of course I was doing it part time way before then. And

realized I was in a whole other career path and realized that design and creating home was a natural gift for me and that after coaching and helping a lot of friends along the way, it just became something that I picked up and was doing and loved it. And so what started out to be just kind of a fun hobby ended up being a career

Well, I think you’re probably not alone with that. A lot of people do that. I good for you. At least you have built a very successful business over the years as a result of that. Yeah, yeah, it has been. It has been really a lot of fun. And, know, we are constantly pivoting and doing new things, and that’s what’s kept it fun and engaging. No, that’s great. I can’t wait to dive into that with you today. So.

Let’s go back a little bit and I can’t remember exactly what year we met, but I do remember meeting you at High Point Market where I meet a lot of people and I remember our conversation. I’ll never forget it. You came up to me at the end of it and asked me some very pointed questions, which were great. So why don’t you decide why you decided to work with us or why don’t you share? that was quite a few years ago, but yes.

You know, Gail, you are probably one of the very first out there in coaching designers and it was such an intriguing opportunity. So it took me quite a while to really investigate if you would and kind of get to know you before bringing my business and trusting somebody to take my business from the level that I had gotten it to a new level. But I knew

that I needed that help. I just didn’t know where and how. And listening to you and your qualifications and your experience really helped me feel comfortable. And like you said, it was several questions. I didn’t dive into it very quickly. It took me a little time, which I think is how I approach about everything. And then, you know, we got started in a coaching

coaching situation for quite a few years. And you absolutely helped me grow Kirkendall Design to a whole new level. Well, that’s so fun. And it’s been fun working with you. I just remember you calling me the principal more than once. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I like to have somebody who would have the wisdom and knowledge and direction that you could give because I respond really well to that as I

You made many mentions of you’d give me an assignment and I’d turn around and I’d get it down because I was so eager to learn, but also I respected what you had to say and your direction and it made total sense to, you know, explore and do the work to be able to get the results. Well, I remember I gave you one time when we were talking, I gave you some things to work on and I specifically remember telling

You’ve got about six months to get this done. And when we had our conversation, you had it all done. It was a month later. You were so funny. I just thought to myself, that’s Julia. She is going to take the bull by the horns and she’s going to go take action and get it done. That’s kind of how this whole thing started. You know, I started a Kirkendall design with $200 and just some idea

what I could do with that. And quite honestly, I never looked back or even looked to calculate or count how much money I had at that point. I just knew I was not, there was another level. And when I met you, which was several years into my business. And like I said, at that point in our industry, there were not very many people out there who knew how to, or had the skillset to coach.

coach interior designers and, it was a great, great find and connection and yeah, it really helped. Well, thank you. Well, and you did the hard work though. So let’s talk about some of the hard work you’ve had to do. What are some of the biggest challenges that you’ve faced over the years? So for a long time, it was just understanding my value because it was such a natural gift. And I think that runs true.

Even today, I still have to remember that what I do has intellectual value or transfers to monetary value. I think understanding my value and making sure that I took care of that and treated that respectfully for myself before I could somebody else. And therefore, that also meant changing my mindset about money.

and thinking that I could do something less expensive and better when what my client was asking for was just they weren’t looking necessarily for less expensive. They were just looking for me to do a really great design job. So I had to change my mindset. And that was a big deal. That happened many, many years ago.

And then I had to, course, like a lot of us, we, had to stop trying to fix every problem that I came into. And as we know that being an interior designer, has its, its correlation. There’s a lot of similarities to being a counselor and you’re right in somebody’s home. You get intimately involved with them, their family, and you start doing things outside of the scope of not only your work, but all even your profession.

So you just have to back out and realize that you’re there to do a service and do it really great and provide that service and not try to fix everybody’s problems. Yeah, for sure. Well, yeah, and I think the challenges too, that I just know that you had some periods of time where it was challenging with some of the clients you were getting. I think everybody goes through that where they have that difficulty.

And then also just really achieving the profit margins that you needed and wanted to have. So just moving your business to a point where you had the confidence that you could ask for some of those higher numbers. That took a bit, didn’t it? It did, but we’re talking 15 years ago. So for me to reflect back that long, it is interesting when I look back on my business.

statistics because you know I love to gather data and I keep quite a bit of data that that that has been close to 15 years. So, David think back then now I’m disappointed I wasted the first 15 but the last 15 have been really good and the next 15 are going to be better. that’s great.

Well, I remember too that when we first started working together, you had a retail store and I’d love for you to share about that experience. A lot of people have that dream to start a retail store. Yeah, well there again, that was quite a few years ago. Probably looking back now that was about 25 years ago. Because when we first started, I had already had a retail store for about 10 years and it took us a few years to realize. I wasn’t long for you to realize that it wasn’t a profit.

my profit margins were long, were really short, but it took me a longer time to then transfer that business to design and close that retail business and then spend all my energy into design. And you know, the retail market 20, 25 years ago was a lot different than it is now. And so, no, I don’t have a retail store, but it was at that point a way that I started my design business.

Definitely is not that way to start a design business in 2024. I would agree with you. I think it’s got even harder. I have one client left, I think, that still has a retail. Well, no, that’s not true. Another one just started one. But that’s a passion project for her. So everyone has a desire for some part of their business to be a real passion project like that. And I think everybody’s got

try it and get it out of their system. So. Agreed. Yeah. I believe that it was a pathway to design for me, but like, like I said, it was not profitable. And since, at this point, probably not the way I would ever advise anybody to go retail. think retailers have to be retailers in order to make that a profitable business. Business. That model is totally different than a design business.

It totally is for sure. Well, let’s talk about your newest venture, the Studio at KD offerings. And I’m really excited to hear about it. What inspired you to start it? Well, the Studio at KD just kind of birthed itself like many things do. think when you allow yourself to look outside of the box that you are working within and look beyond, you start expanding the opportunities.

We knew that we needed to change our location based on some of it was demographics getting in more of a central location, but also just growth. And so we had that in our mind. We knew we were looking for a space. And during that time, we, me and myself mainly,

I was continually traveling around the country and I came across a piece of property called, an inn called Julep Farms and it’s in, it’s in Dalton, Georgia, I believe. And Julep Farms was just very inspiring. It wasn’t that, that’s what I want to do because their design, they didn’t have really much of a design

But what it showed me was some different avenues that I could take design and grow my business in some different revenue streams and breathe a little life in it for myself so that as a seasoned designer and a business owner, I was doing something new and exciting and therefore regenerating my business. And so the studio at Kirkendall Design

really, really came to fruition when we came across the piece of property in Tulsa that was larger than what we needed, that had all kinds of potential. And we decided, I had to decide in an hour to purchase it. And that’s one of those times when it, had to, I already had the thoughts, we already had the dreams, we already had the vision of what we wanted to do.

We had no idea that would be where we would do it. But I think that when you as a business owner and a visionary take the time to dream and look at the what ifs and the potential, then I believe that as you are going about your day -to -day business, which is what happened on that day, things will come across your path that align with that, and you just jump in and go for it. And that’s what we did.

So it turned into what did I buy because I bought what was a old nursery, a building that was beautiful building, wasn’t all that old, but needed totally to be turned into design studio offices. And then start dreaming about all the potential that came with it because there was five acres of agriculture land, zoned land in the middle of Tulsa.

I had no idea what I would do with that. Since then, we have developed the Studio at KD. Probably one of the most important things to talk about is that it only supports, its function is to support our design firm. Anything that we do at and in the Studio at KD has got to support.

Perkindale design and that is another great lesson gal that you taught me In our coaching sessions was to use a tool called the impact filter And to this day I use the impact filter all the time so that I anytime that I as a visionary would have an idea or get a thought of This would be a lot of fun instead of chasing or those thoughts are overwhelming my

I do take that time and fill out that impact filter and look at how that would affect the main business, which is Kirkendall Design. So as we’ve processed through owning the studio at Kirkendall Design, the different revenue streams we built have all helped. They all relate back to developing the business of Kirkendall Design.

Okay, well talk about some of the things that you’re doing now. What are your revenue streams that you’re? So some of the different things we have that we offer is we have a large building. We built a design loft on a second floor and our whole lower lower level of the building is being used during the week and on the weekends in different ways. One of the ways that we use it is for photographers to be able to come in during.

anytime and use our studio for photographer sessions for branding, for corporate, for business. We’ve been very successful with that. And that is just one revenue stream where they come in and they rent out our studio for their photography sessions. So that’s been fun. Another one has been for lifestyle.

workshops we call them and that’s where we have professionals that are around our area and region that come in and teach different workshops such as how to make a wreath for your front door or how to you know all the different we had a really successful sourdough making class and then we have had a really great class on tablescapes and all of those things relate right back to the home.

We offer for our clients and associates the opportunity to use our space for signature events such as like retirement parties or bridal showers, but it is limited to our client list as well as our affiliates. So that makes it a little bit more of a privilege to be a client of Kirkendall Design. There are a lot of pluses that come with

We have planted a beautiful flower garden, which our clients reap the benefits of that all the time. We are bringing fresh flowers with us all the time for their home and just kind of another touch that we get to offer to our clients. Along with that, then the other four acres that we have, we have a flower farmer who grows flowers on that area and

sells them in the different farmers markets around our area. So we have been able to lease out the land that we’re not using right now and get an income from that and allow somebody else to build a business, which has made it a real beautiful active area. So it’s kind of fun to see that develop for now. So as you hear, there’s several areas that we have developed Kirk and all design.

through the studio at KD. Every time somebody walks into our studio, they’re surrounded in an environment that reflects our brand, tells the story of who we are, and it welcomes them in and gives them opportunity to get to know us before they even begin to pick up the phone or get on the website and have a discovery call or an initial consult with us. That is so great.

Well, I can’t wait to see some new photos that I’m sure by now all those flowers are even more beautiful than when you first start building. They are. So you also have years of experience in construction and your husband was in that business. So how important has that design build part of the business been for you? You know, it is a huge, huge part of Carcandall Design

because as a design firm, we can do a full service turnaround. We can offer complete services for any of our projects. However, I would have to say the pro is we can control the schedule and solve the challenges in -house, but the con is there’s not near as big of a profit margin in construction as there is in design. So you have to have a significant volume of business.

to make it worth it. So there’s a benefit that we have that we take certain level jobs, we take certain jobs that we know that we will serve well, but that is not the area that we really make our most profits. It too is an area that really reflects back to Kirkendall Design and helps build Kirkendall Design.

That’s fabulous. I think you’ve done a great job of diversifying your business with some very unusual things and maybe not the common grouping of things that most people have done before. How has that helped you through the challenging economic times? And we’ve had them several years. We’ve had them. Yeah. I think that that’s important for any business is to diversify. And I do believe that designers

are finding new and unique ways to do so. I think that we shouldn’t jump on the same bandwagon as what you’re seeing happen. I believe we’re creatives and visionaries. So give yourself the opportunity to look and see what’s important to you and your clients and explore those things and open those doors so that you’re able to find areas that serve your business best.

Go have fun with it. It will keep you engaged. It will keep your clients engaged. My staff is loving our new space. They love all the energy that people coming in are bringing. They love the opportunity to go out and sit out in the flower field or out in the garden and work for a while or meet with a client. So I think you just have to be bold. You have to look for those opportunities and jump

Well, you are certainly bold and courageous. And that is always something that I think about with you. So good for you. Thank you. Well, what is your bigger vision now? Is there something beyond this? Do you have ideas for colliding? Well, yeah, of course. There again, I better get out the impact filter a second, see if they’re really going to be viable. Right. You know, I do. There’s there’s a lot of opportunity ahead.

Every year, the big question is, okay, well, what’s your end game? What are you, where do you think you’re going? And how long will you be doing this? And the answer is just so, so varied is I don’t ever see myself retired in the conventional way of retirement. I having my whole life, including my family and how we are a family together.

all are kind of embedded in this business. So I had to step back and get an idea of, you know, in purchasing a building, gaining assets and looking at everything that I had, what was going to happen with this building if I wasn’t around. And we developed an employee and ESOP, an employee -owned program. So we are in the process because I have great employee retention.

that our employees are going to own Kirkendall Design and be able to take it on and beyond. So that’s an excitement for me to know that there is a future. And then what we do along the way, there are just so many opportunities, Gail, that are presented. Now, I think a lot of that has to do with having a

good established business, which is our main business being design, getting the opportunity to now branch out and find other things that we are enjoying to do. But with the understanding that they all have to help develop business for Kirkendall Design. think that’s where that’s the magic in it. It all has to feed the mothership, as I call it all the time. So,

That’s very, very bright. honestly, the same thing with the design build because that does feed the design part of the business, which is, we didn’t do design build in my firm. We did a construction design department, but that fed our residential design business. So it was a natural partnership. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So we have got some great, exciting things to explore.

But I think the important lesson, of course, is always feeding that design business, but looking at all the different opportunities you have to do that. And for every personality, for every designer out there, it’s going to be a little different. And don’t be afraid to explore it because it could be the biggest thing that takes your business to the next level. I love that.

Knowing what you know now, what would you suggest to designers that aren’t as far along on their journey as you are? Just that. Be bold. Look for opportunities. Don’t be afraid to walk through those doorways, but always take the time to make sure your energy is only going to be building your business and not just a hobby, not just for fun. For sure is make sure it all.

it all can be transferable to your design business. And you can make a great living as a designer. absolutely. Yeah. And in fact, you can make more money as a designer than in a lot of professions. to me, that’s true. Yes. That’s a big part of it is design. The profit margins in design are very healthy. So that is what you want to, you know, you’re doing this to make money. So that’s where

Profit margins are healthy there, so make your money in design. Enjoy the journey. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so my final question is, what are three takeaways you’d like to share with our listener? And I think you said one, which is be bold and courageous. So that’s number one. How about the other two? I would tell you that, which is bold and courageous. Growth and change are good things.

These are things that people sometimes get concerned about and they don’t do it because they’re a fear. And I think you’ve got to look at growth and change as being good things. I think that you have to really work hard at building the team that supports your dreams. And the big, one of our big things that we’re really emphasizing and have been for a couple of years now

I have a team that is supporting my dreams, but in turn, I support their dreams. And that keeps them engaged. They understand that it is important to me that they’re happy and that they’re working and we’re all working, but we’re all starting to see our dreams, our own individual dreams come true. And when you do that, it builds an enthusiasm that is contagious.

So our big motto these days is keep dreaming, keep looking, keep looking for what that next step could be. And I think when you do that, opportunities and growth come right with it. That is a perfect end to the podcast. Thank you so much for the inspiration and the information that you shared with everybody. I hope everybody is inspired to go out and be bold and courageous just like you have been.

Sure, thank you. glad I got an opportunity to share with you. And of course, you know that you, your team has been very integral part of growing Kirkendall Design and we couldn’t have done it without you. So thank you for all that wisdom and advice. Thank you so much, Julia. Love you and wish you all the best for the future. You too.