This podcast is the result of an experiment with Google’s new generative A.I. tool NotebookLM — created “to help you make sense of complex information. When you upload your sources, it instantly becomes an expert, grounding its responses in your material with citations and relevant quotes.”

Above and beyond an impressive capacity to extract relevant bullet points from complex documents, a powerful–some might say “spooky”–feature of the software is the ability to generate audio in the form of a podcast-style discussion based on the document.

With one click, two AI bots start a lively “deep dive” discussion based on the source document. They summarize material, make connections between topics, and banter back and forth.

The program contains the disclaimer that “It’s important to remember that these generated discussions are not a comprehensive or objective view of a topic, but simply a reflection of the sources that you’ve uploaded.” Google also reassure us that “since it’s your notebook, your personal data is never used to train NotebookLM.” (Given that Google can reach in and read each and every email you send and receive this might or might not reassure people.)

I tested NoetbookLM by uploading an 18-page PDF report Live, Probiotic, or Neither? Microbial Composition of Retail-Available Kombucha and “Hard” Kombucha in the Pacific Northwest of the United States authored by Keisha Harrison of Oregon State University and others. This is heavy-duty biochemistry, as shown by this brief snippet:

The audio (see Podcast below) was created with ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER PROMPT from me. I simply loaded the PDF, clicked on ‘create audio’, and was done. The results, delivered in the upbeat tone of morning news hosts, are astounding.

This transcript (I’ve named the automatons ‘Bob’ and ‘Sally’ for no particular reason) reveals at least one failure – 8:20 in – where the AI seems to ‘hallucinate’ and refer back to ‘something we talked about’ which they have not mentioned, and, more seriously, discusses added bacillus coagulans lowering levels of gluconobacter. When checked in the NotebookLM chat window this claim was proven false. As with all generative AI, results should always be checked. A couple of other proof points where the audio was accurate are included.

I recommend you listen to the audio podcast (at the end of this posting) first and then come back and read the transcript after you have heard Bob & Sally.

Bob:   Okay, so kombucha, right? Everybody’s talking about it, but honestly, it can be kind of confusing. It’s all the labels and jargon, like what’s the deal with live, probiotic, and now even hard kombucha? Today, we’re going deep–diving into a study from Oregon State University where they took 39 different kombucha brands.

Sally: Wow, 39.

Bob: And actually analyzed what’s in the bottle versus what the label says.

Sally: Fascinating.

Bob: And let me tell you, some of the findings were pretty wild.

Sally: Well, what’s really interesting here is they went beyond just the marketing claims and used lab techniques to get a real look at the chemical and microbial makeup of these drinks, which I got to say gives us a much clearer picture of what we’re actually drinking.

Bob: Okay, so first up, a finding that might make you do a double take next time you’re at the store and in the kombucha aisle. You ready for this?

Sally: Yeah, hit me with it.

Bob: Over a third, over a third, of the kombucha that is labeled soft, meaning non-alcoholic, actually had alcohol levels above the legal limit.

Sally: Really?

Bob: Crazy.

Sally: That is wild.

Bob: And it’s probably not because brewers are trying to sneak in some extra booze. It seems like it’s mostly due to fermentation.

Sally: Oh, right.

Bob: It keeps happening. It just doesn’t stop inside the bottle, maybe because of temperature changes during shipping or something.

Sally: Yeah, temperature control can be a real issue.

Bob: So you think you’re getting this healthy non-alcoholic drink and bam, that’s a bit boozier than you expected. Not ideal.

Sally: No, not at all. And especially for people who are avoiding alcohol for personal or health reasons, I mean, that’s a big deal. You really have to read those labels super carefully.

Bob: Okay, well, speaking of alcohol, the study also looked at hard kombucha, which, you know, that’s a whole other thing.

Sally: Yeah.

Bob: It’s like kombucha is trying to be a cocktail or something.

Sally: Right, like it’s trying to appeal to a different crowd.

Bob: But besides the whole getting you tipsy part, what makes hard kombucha different from regular kombucha?

Sally: Well, that’s where the study gets really interesting. So they found that hard kombucha isn’t just soft kombucha that accidentally fermented too long. It looks like it’s actually intentionally fermented in a different way to get that higher alcohol content.

Bob: Okay, so how can they tell what’s the evidence for that?

Sally: One of the key indicators is glycerol. Hard kombucha has way higher levels of glycerol than regular kombucha.

>> This is verified by asking the NotebookLM chat window “Does the paper claim that hard kombucha has way higher levels of glycerol than regular kombucha?”

Bob: Hold on, hold on, glycerol. Remind me what that is again.

Sally: So glycerol is a natural byproduct of yeast fermentation. Basically, more glycerol means more fermentation, more of that intentional booziness.

Bob: So it’s like a fingerprint.

Sally: Yeah, exactly.

Bob: It shows that the brewers are aiming for that higher alcohol content right from the start.

Sally: Absolutely. And it’s not just about the alcohol either. They also discovered that erythritol was only present in the hard kombuchas.

Bob: Erythritol, that’s, that’s a sugar substitute, right?

Sally: Right. It’s calorie-free. And it’s gotten pretty popular lately.

Bob: So are they adding it to hard kombucha to make it like, healthier?

Sally: That’s what it seems like, like they’re trying to appeal to those health-conscious consumers who also enjoy a drink or two.

>> “Does the paper claim that erythritol is only present in hard kombuchas and if so, why is it added?”

Bob: It’s a whole marketing strategy. Fascinating. But okay, let’s get back to the basics of kombucha. The reason people started drinking it in the first place, those live and active cultures. The question is, are these drinks really as alive as they claim to be?

Sally: That’s a great question. And to answer that, they actually use techniques to count the live microbes in each kombucha.

Bob: Okay, so what’d they find? Was it like the microbial party in every bottle?

Sally: Well, they did find live microbes in most of the kombuchas, which you’d hope for. But the numbers were all over the place. And here’s the kicker. Just because a bottle screamed live and active on the label didn’t mean it had more microbes than one that didn’t.

Bob: Wait, so a brand that’s like super-duper live cultures. Could have less than one that doesn’t even mention it.

Sally: Yep, pretty surprising, right?

Bob: That’s kind of misleading, don’t you think?

Sally: It really makes you wonder about the labeling for sure. And on top of that, while most of the kombuchas did have some live microbes, the overall numbers were still way lower than what you’d find in, say, yogurt, which is something we know is good for gut health.

Bob: Okay, so this is important. Just because a drink has some live microbes, it doesn’t automatically mean it’s going to be this probiotic powerhouse.

Sally: Exactly.

Bob: There’s more to it than that.

Sally: 100 percent.

Bob: Right. It seems like it all comes down to the specific types of bacteria.

Sally: Right. For something to be considered a true probiotic.

Bob: Yeah.

Sally: It needs to have specific strains of bacteria that have actually been studied and proven to have health benefits. And not only that, you need enough of those bacteria to actually make a difference.

Bob: So it’s not just about being live, it’s about the right kind of live. Exactly. The right amount.

Sally: And speaking of the right kind, they looked at the types of microbes in these kombuchas. Things got pretty interesting when they zeroed in on the products that specifically claimed to have probiotics added to them.

Bob: Okay. Like what kind of probiotics are we talking about here?

Sally: Well, one of the most common ones they were looking for was bacillus coagulans. It seems like every other kombucha brand out there is touting this bacillus coagulans.

Bob: Yeah, I’ve definitely seen that on labels. So were they actually putting it in there?

Sally: Some brands, yes. They actually did have bacillus coagulans in the amounts they claimed, but then there were others.

Bob: Others? What do you mean?

Sally: Well, for example, a lot of kombuchas claim to have added probiotic strains of lactobacillus.

Bob: Okay.

Sally: But when they tested them, they found little to no evidence of those strains actually being there.

Bob: Wow. So some of these kombucha companies might be stretching the truth a little bit about their probiotic claims. That’s not exactly reassuring.

Sally: It definitely raises some questions about transparency, that’s for sure. But don’t swear off kombucha just yet. It can still be a delicious and refreshing drink.

Bob: Of course, we’re not saying ditch the kombucha altogether. It’s more about like empowering ourselves to be informed consumers.

Sally: Exactly. Don’t just take those labels at face value.

Bob: So before we move on, I have to ask, what about the kombucha that’s traditionally brewed, you know, the kind without any added probiotics and stuff?

Sally: Oh, that’s a great question and actually a perfect transition to what we’re talking about next. So you were asking about traditionally brewed kombucha and how those added probiotics might be affecting that whole ecosystem of microbes that’s already in there.

Bob: Right, because we know traditionally brewed kombucha has its own unique blend of microbes, even without any probiotics added.

Sally: Right. It’s like a whole little world in there.

Bob: Exactly.

Sally: And this study actually gives us some clues about what might be happening when we introduce those extra probiotics.

Bob: OK, so did they find that adding those specific probiotics actually messed with the natural balance in traditionally brewed kombucha?

Sally: Well, let’s think back to gluconobacter for a minute. Remember we talked about that?

>>In fact they have *not* talked about it.

Bob: Gluconobacter, right. One of the main players in traditional kombucha helps give it that tangy flavor.

Sally: So they looked at the levels of gluconobacter in the kombucha samples and they noticed something interesting. In some of the samples that had bacillus coagulans added, which is a probiotic, right? Bacillus coagulans are a  very popular probiotic. In those samples, the levels of gluconobacter were actually lower.

Bob: So it’s like adding the bacillus coagulans kind of pushed out the gluconobacter a bit.

>>There is no evidence for this in the paper. The claim was checked by asking the NotebookLM chat window — not the audio generation tool – “does the paper claim that samples that had bacillus coagulans added report lower levels of gluconobacter?” The answer was:

Sally: It seems that way, yeah. And it makes you wonder, you know, when we add these specific probiotics to something like traditionally brewed kombucha, are we disrupting that balance that naturally occurs?

Bob: It’s like maybe those micros in traditional kombucha, they kind of like having their own party.

Sally: Right, exactly.

Bob: And then we come in and try to add guests who might not exactly vibe with the original crowd.

Sally: 100 percent. It’s like, hey, we’re just going to add this bacillus coagulans to the mix, hope that’s cool, but maybe it throws things off a bit.

Bob: Who invited this guy?

Sally: Right. And that can change the whole dynamic.

Bob: Totally. But, OK, this study wasn’t just about like the microbes themselves, was it? What about all those other compounds that get produced during fermentation? What did they find out about that?

Sally: Oh, good point. It’s not just about who’s there. It’s about what they’re doing.

Bob: Exactly.

Sally: So one of the compounds they measured was glucuronic acid. You might have heard of it. It’s often talked about in relation to liver health.

Bob: Right. Glucuronic acid is supposed to be really good for you.

Sally: Right, exactly. But here’s the thing, even though you hear about it a lot, this study and some other recent research actually haven’t found any detectable levels of glucuronic acid in the kombucha samples they tested.

Bob: Wait, so all this talk about glucuronic acid and kombucha and it might not even be there.

Sally: It’s a good reminder that we can’t always believe everything we hear.

Bob: For sure.

Sally: And that sometimes the science just doesn’t back up the hype.

Bob: Totally. So for those of us who are still totally into kombucha,

Sally: As you should be.

Bob: Any tips on what we should be looking for besides, you know, not getting fooled by those probiotic claims?

Sally: I always tell people, read the ingredient list.

Bob: Simple as that.

Sally: Just like you would with any other food or drink. Less is more, in my opinion.

Bob: Right.

Sally: Look for kombuchas that are mainly just tea, sugar, maybe some natural flavors.

Bob: OK, so keeping it simple.

Sally: Exactly.

Bob: And obviously we have to talk about the elephant in the room, that whole unexpected alcohol content thing we talked about earlier.

Sally: Right. Always a good idea to double-check that, especially if you’re avoiding alcohol for any reason.

Bob: Absolutely. Well, before we move on to the big question of kombucha’s overall health effects, I have one more question about this study.

Sally: OK, shoot.

Bob: They were looking at kombucha that was sold specifically in the Pacific Northwest of the U.S. So does that mean these findings might not apply to like all kombucha everywhere?

Sally: That’s a really important point. We can’t assume that all kombucha is created equal. Right. The way kombucha is made, the microbes that end up in it, all of that can be different depending on where it’s produced.

Bob: So like a kombucha from, say, California might have a totally different microbial profile than one from Maine.

Sally: Exactly. It’s all about those local microbes and brewing traditions.

Bob: So this study gives us an amazing snapshot of what’s going on in the kombucha world. But it’s just one piece of the puzzle.

Sally: Absolutely.

Bob: And now it’s time to tackle the big question. Does kombucha actually live up to all those health claims?

Sally: We’ve been hinting at it all episode, but get ready, because next we’re diving deep into what the science really says about kombucha and our health.

>> At this point, the dialog allows room to insert a sponsor message if required.

Bob: And we’re back, ready to unravel the truth about kombucha’s health benefits. We’ve heard the hype. Now let’s look at the science.

Sally: We’ve already established that just because kombucha contains live microbes, it’s not a guaranteed ticket to perfect health.

Bob: Right. You’re not going to suddenly morph into a health guru after a bottle of kombucha. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be part of a healthy lifestyle. So let’s cut to the chase. What does the research actually say about kombucha’s impact on our health, especially when it comes to that buzzword we hear everywhere? Gut health.

Sally: It’s the million-dollar question, isn’t it? Can kombucha really transform our gut health? The truth is, the research is still in its early stages.

Bob: So it’s a bit of a waiting game for us impatient kombucha lovers.

Sally: In a way, yes, there have been some promising findings, particularly from animal studies.

Bob: OK, I have to ask. We talkin’ in lab mice sipping on tiny bottles of kombucha again.

>>Only one paper in the Reference Section – [7] – refers to studies on mice. Nowhere in the main body are they mentioned. The audio tool seemed to have chosen this because it is an amusing aspect for the bots to discuss.

Sally: You know it. These studies have shown that kombucha can lead to changes in the gut microbiome of mice, which is pretty cool. But, and this is a big but, what happens in mice doesn’t always translate perfectly to humans.

Bob: Of course, because mice probably aren’t choosing kombucha for its complex flavor profile. So we need more research, particularly research involving actual humans, to really say for sure. What about other potential benefits? I’ve heard whispers about kombucha’s antioxidant power. Is there any truth to those claims?

Sally: Now, here’s where things get really interesting. Remember how we talked about tea being a primary ingredient in kombucha?

Bob: Yeah, and tea, especially green tea, is practically synonymous with antioxidants.

Sally: Exactly. Tea contains naturally occurring compounds called polyphenols, which are known for their antioxidant properties.

Bob: Antioxidants, those are the good guys that help protect our bodies from damage, right?

Sally: Yes, exactly. And because kombucha is brewed with tea, it inherits those beneficial polyphenols. In fact, studies have shown that kombucha can actually have a higher antioxidant capacity than plain, unfermented tea.

Bob: So even if we’re not sure about the whole gut health thing yet, those tea polyphenols are still bringing some antioxidant power to the table.

Sally: It seems that way. However, more research is needed to determine whether those impressive antioxidant levels in kombucha actually translate into tangible health benefits for humans. It’s one thing to see it in a lab and another to see it play out in real life.

Bob: So, it might not be a magic bullet, but it could be a tasty way to up your antioxidant intake, all thanks to its tea-based origins. And hey, even if those gut health benefits haven’t been completely proven yet, there’s no harm in enjoying a refreshing beverage that just might be giving our gut microbiome a little TLC.

Sally: I wholeheartedly agree. Who knows, maybe one day we’ll have definitive proof that those live and active cultures are working their magic within us. Until then, we can savor those complex flavors and appreciate the fact that some of life’s most enjoyable things are the ones we’re still unraveling.

Bob: Beautifully said, it seems like every time we dive deep into the world of food and science, we surface with even more questions.

Sally: That’s the thing about scientific exploration. It’s a continuous journey of discovery.

Bob: And we’re thrilled you’re on this journey with us. Thanks for joining us on this deep dive into the ever fascinating, wonderfully complex and often surprising world of kombucha. Until next time, happy sipping.

Although the A.I. audio does not cover all aspects of the research paper and has at least one ‘hallucination,’ it does an outstanding job highlighting the main findings in an entertaining and engaging manner. The tone and banter between the male and female voices are eerily similar to many morning TV shows and news programs in the States.

The post A.I. bots discuss the science of kombucha appeared first on 'Booch News.