“What is your passion? Why are you doing this?”

In this episode, Nick speaks with Vincent Wanga about the intersection of creativity, entrepreneurship, and leadership. Vince shares his unique journey through the creative industry, discussing the challenges and advantages of being an insomniac and how it has shaped his work ethic.

What to listen for:

• Insomnia can be both a challenge and a competitive advantage.
• Leadership requires sacrifice and understanding of employee dynamics.
• Passion and purpose are essential for sustainable entrepreneurship.
• Vision is crucial for effective leadership and business success.
• Scaling a business requires preparation and understanding of resources.
• Failure is a necessary part of the learning process.
• Creatives must balance their artistic mindset with business skills.

“Everything that I do is passion and purpose-rooted. And that should be your first mission.”

• When you anchor decisions in passion, you can more naturally stay motivated during the hard parts of the journey
• Purpose brings clarity, so you waste less time chasing things that don’t matter.
• Leading with what lights you up often creates the most authentic and sustainable success.
• Passion-driven work tends to attract the right people and opportunities without forcing it.
• Starting with purpose sets the tone for how you show up.

“Creatives have a visionary mindset. So why can’t creatives be those same CEOs? We just lack the business acumen.”

• Creativity is the foundation of innovation.
• Many creatives underestimate how transferable their skills are to leadership.
• Visionary thinkers often make better long-term strategists than traditional operators.
• When creatives embrace structure and systems, they become unstoppable leaders.

About Vincent Wanga

Vince is a dynamic international design thought leader, creative keynote speaker, award-winning creative and executive, author of “The Art of Direction,” serial entrepreneur, and experienced brand consultant with an exceptional range of expertise over a distinguished two-decade career.

As former vice president and head of creative for one of the fastest-growing technology startups in North America, he oversaw corporate brand strategy and creative during unprecedented company growth from pre-Series A to an over $1 billion “unicorn” valuation.

Vince lives in Washington, DC, and Asheville, NC, with his dog, Okello. When he is not working on new business ventures, he passionately travels the world, collecting creative inspiration at the finest boutique hotels rewards points can buy.

• https://www.vincentwanga.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincent-wanga/

Resources:

Check out other episodes about creativity and entrepreneurship:

• Creativity Within Us All With Joe Tertel
• Post Traumatic Growth, When Trauma Makes You Stronger And More Creative With Christian Ray Flores

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Click Here To View The Episode Transcript

Nick McGowan (00:01.507)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Vince Wanga. Vince, how you doing today?

Vincent Wanga (00:11.372)
I’m doing all right, Nick. I’m looking forward to our conversation and thanks for having me on.

Nick McGowan (00:15.618)
Yeah, absolutely. I’m excited, man. I think this is gonna be fun. I know there’s a lot that you’ve been through, a lot that you’ve done. One of the biggest reasons why I wanted to have you on the show was to be able to talk about creativity and how it ties into us as people, but also into the systems that we’re in, like the capitalistic system, our family systems, all those things. I grew up as a creative in a…

not a typical creative house, so to say. So it felt a little weird, but that was the system that I was in. And then you get into jobs, you get into your career, and like, how do you do all that stuff? And that was one of the things that really stood out to me about having you on. So I’m gonna stop talking. Why don’t you kick us off? Tell us what you do for a living, and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?

Vincent Wanga (01:00.142)
Well, thank you. I am in a weird place in my career because I’m transitioning. I have been a creative at the highest levels and the lowest levels for 20 years. Started as an intern, worked my way up through the agency world, stints as a freelance independent operator working for clients all over the world to owning my own agency and having that unique experience as a business owner and operator.

and all the responsibilities that come with managing employees and being responsible for payroll and profit and loss and the other side of the industry, as well as becoming a senior executive and top 100, well, first 100 employees for a billion dollar tech startup and a crazy transformational journey. So I only preface that to say I’ve done it all in so many different industries. I’ve worked with so many different sectors, in-house, freelance.

agency, you name it in the creative sector, I’ve done it. And I think that offers me a lot of perspective and advice that I can offer to people, whether you’re creative or not, particularly in the aspects of leadership, which is something I really focus on at this point in my career. But as I mentioned, I’m in a major transition away from creative and more into my real core ethos, which is entrepreneurship and taking all that creative talent, marketing, business acumen into my own businesses and consulting and

other opportunities to really express my creativity in a different way. So it’s a really exciting paradigm for me. As far as something that’s really unique about me, I could wax philosophic on that. But I think the most unique thing is I am an insomniac. I get an inhuman amount of sleep and it has been a very difficult, like physical manifestation in my life because that’s not healthy, but it has been an incredible.

competitive advantage in my career, where I’m able to work day and night and create businesses on a weekend and maximize my time. But as I get older, the other side of the coin starts catching up and trying to figure out how to adjust as I move forward is a new paradigm I’m dealing with. But that’s one of many unique things about me.

Nick McGowan (03:16.459)
Wow, I’m really glad that you consider that a unique thing.

that you see that as a… there’s kind of a silver lining that you look at that instead of some people saying like, well I just… I’m struggling with this thing. It sounds like even the personality that you have, like you’ll go, well I am kind of struggling but it is what it is and this is what it is. Then I could do something with it. And it’s funny how as you get older, things will shift and change just across the board. I mean we could have a whole fucking episode just about like the specific changes that happen from your knees and your back and the way you think about things.

or whatever you don’t mean

I wonder at times with the people that are insomniacs that it’s something that they actually kind of crave and it’s like a mental thing where like I want to keep going and I think about it from this perspective In the human design way I’m a generator and I have to use all of my energy every day So by the end of the day there are times where I’m like I’m totally done. It’s nine o’clock at night I guess I’ll go to sleep because I’m done for the day and like all the energy’s out other times It’s like three or four in the morning and it is what it is

But for the people that…

Nick McGowan (04:27.617)
can hear that and say, well, you’re just trying to hustle and just trying to use all that to get ahead and do the grind and all that stuff. I’m reading between the lines and a little bit I know about you so far, that’s not the case with you. So it’s more of one of those like, I do these things because I’m led to do these things, but I also have a really hard time sleeping. So how do you manage that going through each day and saying like, all right, well, I got whatever amount of sleep and my body needs more, but I also have a lot of mental energy where it’s like you can

feel the physical of like, man, I’m just fucking dragging. But my brain’s still going and like that must take a toll on you. I could imagine, you know, you have a week of that. Most people would just be driven insane. So how do you how do you manage that?

Vincent Wanga (05:12.344)
Yeah, and I think, you know, this reminds me of that. I think it was a New Yorker editorial cartoon that had a building in Manhattan with lights on. And it said these three lights are either a drug dealer, serial killer or creative. Right. We’re the only ones up at 3 a.m. So I don’t think it’s as unique within the creative realm. But I think what makes me unique is the duality that I’m up all night in human hours, but I’m also functional in the morning. Like I’ve stayed up for 72 hours before.

Nick McGowan (05:25.854)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (05:37.93)
Hmm.

Vincent Wanga (05:40.718)
on deadlines and things that push beyond human norms and are completely unhealthy, but have also, again, like I said, been an advantage historically in my career. think the way my brain is wired, and I think a lot of critics can resonate with this, is I’m my most creative and intellectual at night. I could spend the same amount of time and energy between nine to five on the same thing, and that…

You know, error of time, I could achieve better results in an hour at 3am. It’s just the way these ideas flow in my mind. It’s the same mindset for anyone who can’t relate where like CEOs get up early in the morning and take a bike ride or do a run. And then they come back to the office and now they got a new product idea that everybody’s got to scramble to do. It’s the CEO brain, but it just kicks on at the wrong time. but it is, it is a burden, because it’s not healthy. And unfortunately there’s, there’s

Nick McGowan (06:30.472)
You

Vincent Wanga (06:39.982)
long-term cognitive effects that happen on that and there’s a diminishing return. But I think the most important point here is that I didn’t want to be this way. This is something that evolved from my artist background where I would the only time I had to myself and peace and quiet to create was at night. It started kind of rewiring my brain and then I went to college long story short got kicked out because of money and found myself with my career over before it even started.

So I had to hustle and work twice as hard as everybody else just to get started. I started at a deficit. So I always maximize my time in order to try to achieve the results that I needed to get back into the industry. And then the third thing I think people can resonate with is if you’re an entrepreneur, it’s this paranoia when you go to sleep and you don’t want to wake up with bills. You don’t want to wake up with problems. You just want to stay up and solve everything that you can.

you could have $10,000 in your bank account for that week and still feel insecure. And I think that just keeps me up at night constantly hustling and hoping that that hustle prevents the worst case scenario from happening. So it’s just this convolutions of things that are part of my experiences and my mindset. But it has been an advantage up until about now where I’m kind of paying the health effects of it, but it’s helped me become incredibly successful. And I think that’s a unique.

perspective for me.

Nick McGowan (08:09.086)
I love when conversations head this way. I’ll ask that question every single episode. So everybody listens. They’re used to that question being asked. But I love when that question invokes us going down a different path for the conversation. Obviously, we were going to talk about creativity and leadership, and that just jives with us both. But that’s a really important thing, I think, to get into because you had neural pathways that were literally changed. And you created these paths so, so many years ago saying, like, everybody

leave me the hell alone. Great, you’re all asleep. Everybody’s left me alone. I get to do the thing I want to do. And then you turn that, especially as an agency, for anybody that’s been in any sort of agency, imagine running around with your hair on fire, 15 other people having their hair on fire, and somebody just yelling at you constantly, and you’re constantly late on things that you’re actually pretty much on time for with your projects. And that’s like a typical Tuesday in most agencies. And that will drive you

Vincent Wanga (08:41.592)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (09:08.848)
to have more those neural pathways change because then you have to do things at night. Dude, I’ve been in the same spot where it’s like we have this thing coming up, somebody sent this thing back to me and it’s time for me to QA it or just basically give it once through. Seven hours later you have to do a complete re-haul or whatever and from a leader’s perspective you have to love on that person and help them and work through them. You can’t just go and physically slap them in the back of head and go, the fuck? That’s my first question, you know?

So as a creative, I’m right there with you. think a lot of us do have that.

Nocturnal energy almost to be able to create but I wonder if a lot of that does come from like when you were in middle school or high school like Just everybody leave me alone. Like when your parents tell you like go to your room. You’re like, thank God awesome now Will you all just stay can I lock the door and like just paint or whatever? I want to do and then that turns into the the systems that we’re in that tell us you have to grind you have to hustle and

I I just wonder about how many people are still stuck in that because they don’t see the patterns of, well, I’m having a hard time with this. Like, you see that there’s a pattern with you being an insomniac. But how do you actually combat that, work on that, and not drive yourself crazy each and every day, you know?

Vincent Wanga (10:31.522)
Yeah, I think that’s a challenge. I think there’s a few ways I can approach that question. One, I really loved your point about the sacrifice of leadership. I think a lot of people underestimate that. It’s like the swan analogy, where it’s calm and collected at the top, but your feet are vigorously swimming and kicking. I think people who are employees and check in nine to five and their check clears on Monday when it’s payday.

don’t understand the sacrifice sometimes that their leadership have to make to make that happen. And part of that is that paranoia that we deal with every single day. You know, I also think, you know, I’m highly functional introvert. So I love the quiet time that that allows me to think and to process and to execute on. But I also love that quote. I hope I’m not misquoting them. I think it was by Warren Buffett who said it took me 10 years to be an overnight success. There is no skipping the grind, the hustle.

Nick McGowan (11:13.436)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (11:25.959)
Yeah.

Vincent Wanga (11:28.258)
the sacrifice, know, your family hates you and you don’t see people enough and your friends are wondering if you’re okay. And that’s what it takes to build business, to build legacy, to build anything. So whether I had this unique deposition to work on godly hours or not, I think people find the will in the way because there’s no shortcuts around that to success. And that’s what you got to do. And if you’ve got a nine to five job, well, guess what? Now you got to work five to nine.

and find the time that you need to execute on something. And I think it’s more of an entrepreneur’s brain than a creative’s brain. again, like I said, it’s been advantageous in ways and disadvantageous in others.

Nick McGowan (12:07.259)
I think they actually tie together though, the creativity and the entrepreneurship. I’ve met, god I can’t even put numbers to the amount of entrepreneurs I’ve met over the course of time, but I could probably say in one hand that the people that weren’t really creative and…

Vincent Wanga (12:17.667)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (12:24.125)
definitely told me like I am not creative at all. But then when you look at their processes, how they handle situations, all of it is just oozing creativity. They’re just not creative in the medium of painting or graphic design or web or whatever it is, but they’re still being creative in how they handle it. Shit, even leaders that are like, okay, well I know if I yell at you as a creative, you’re not gonna do the work that you need to do and you’re probably gonna hate it here. So how do I talk to you nicely about it? That is a creative approach.

approach to it where you’ve been in spots, I’ve been in spots where somebody clearly didn’t take that spot and they just yelled at you about the thing because they’re hurt or they’re upset and they can’t manage themselves and they’re just diving it at you. But there is a lot of creativity that ties into that. And I think there’s a lot of people that talk about being an entrepreneur with really a hobby in a sense and not understanding that basic principles of entrepreneurship is you just have various means of income and you just work on things as a creative. You can

sit down and work on things for six hours and you think, shit, I was doing this for two hours, but six hours later, I’ve been standing here, I’ve been working through this thing. And I want to dive deeper into this because I don’t want people to think that you’re saying to them, you just need to grind. No matter what you’re feeling, what you’re doing, just shut up and grind. That’s not the case. But how do you balance that? Because I know people that literally they take that ethos and just say, well, this is who I am. And it’s in a

It’s a false way for them instead of being able to say like this is who I am because man I’m just so passionate about this thing that I eat sleep and dream this because this is my purpose in the world instead of saying well the system tells us this and my god I got a mortgage and these mouths to feed and whatever else it’s like you have to shift from that so how do you shift from that? How did you?

Vincent Wanga (14:15.714)
Man, I think that’s such a good point. I think too many people get enamored with the grind part, right? That’s what they teach you in investment banking. That’s what they teach you in all these other segments. Just grind and the reward will come and they’ll dangle this carrot in front of you that somehow disappears on your journey, right? Entrepreneurship’s very similar. And I’ll just say, this is the hardest shit in the world, like next to raising a child. Like it is incredibly difficult and that’s…

Nick McGowan (14:37.446)
Yeah.

Vincent Wanga (14:42.102)
what discourages most people. But I think the point that you made that was really excellent is you first have to have a purpose. What is your passion? Why are you doing this? Never have I thought when I’m in an entrepreneurial pursuit and I’m working, you know, 18 hours a day, did I ever feel burnt out? Isn’t that interesting that I can go to a typical corporate job and after five hours just can’t wait to leave, but I’ll work nonstop on my own thing and never feel burnt out. I have stress maybe related to money or something.

but it’s not work stress. And I think that’s because everything that I do is passion and purpose rooted. And that should be your first mission. Don’t do this thing because you think it’s going to make you rich. You know, start that brewery because you love beer, you love the science of beer, and that you realize that by getting into that business, you are now an agriculture. You’re a farmer. You need to know about hops and the process and supply chain and fermentation. And you are a chemist and you got to figure out the right, you know, balance in order to have the best beer in the world. Otherwise, don’t do it.

Nick McGowan (15:11.93)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (15:21.561)
Hmm.

Vincent Wanga (15:41.056)
So I think people need to understand what’s your passion would start there. The grind is easy if you’re passion and purpose driven and don’t let that kind of blind you. Start with your passion and your purpose. And that’s really helped keep me balanced so that I make sure the most precious commodity I have right now at this age is my time. And I make sure that just like my money, I invested reasonably and responsibly and only things that really bring me value in return. I think my second point is

The grind is should be front end, you know, where your typical nine to five and there’s no wrong path is something you progressively invest in. And at the end, around 65 years old, you get your benefit and you get to go, you know, travel and live in Florida and do whatever you want with your life and retirement. Entrepreneurship is different. You literally grind for three years. The first year you’re just getting established. The second year you’re trying to become profitable. That third year, if you make it that far, you might actually thrive and have a business. And unless you’re paying yourself,

Like you said, it’s just a hobby. So you have to be serious about this, understand the business fundamentals, but also understand for three years you’re in the suck and you have to work and work hard. And if you’re passionate and purpose driven, it won’t feel like a burden. And then you get your reward where all of a sudden you have enough profit to hire a COO or even a CEO as a founder to run your business and employees and your scaling and it gets easier. So you just have to understand the different philosophies between a nine to five and entrepreneurial pursuit.

and make sure you’re passion and purpose driven and that will really help you keep balanced in this kind of crazy lexicon that is working like we do.

Nick McGowan (17:17.338)
Yeah, especially here in the States. We work much more than other people, but then there are other countries that…

It’s the system that they’re in and how they go through it. I think one of things that you pointed out that really stood out to me was how when you take that approach of the passion and the purpose and you’re doing those things, you’re gonna work so much more on that because you’re fired up about it instead of doing whatever reports or whatever BS meetings or whatever you’re doing at nine to five. And you can just keep working on these things. But as you do that, you really start to stretch that muscle.

So it’s like you’re able to handle things in year two, year three differently than you could in year one or even year two, let’s say, because everything starts to stack up. So in a very black and white way, for the most part, I think the people that listen to the show are leaders, at least in what they do, if not entrepreneurs, and there are a lot of entrepreneurs that are already in their business. But the people that think about, want to get out of my job, I want to get into a business, if you’ve got to go through that work anyway, and you’re just going to basically jump in

a boat and go down that river. Don’t you want to go down the river with the stream instead of trying to fight up it like you’re currently doing in your nine to five? And it’s like, how do you then take that approach and say, all right, well, this is what I want. And there is a difference between passion and purpose. I think we have a seed of purpose that’s within us and there are ways that we get to show our passion with that purpose. But if you can tie that stuff together, you’re almost unstoppable. There’s shit that’s going to happen, but you’re going to get through that. When you talk to different

Vincent Wanga (18:34.254)
Sure. Right.

Nick McGowan (18:58.138)
from people about that sort of stuff and tying those two together. What’s the way that you can kind of put that into a vision to be able to show this is where these two pieces kind of can join?

Vincent Wanga (19:06.818)
Yeah, and I think for me to tell a little story, I was a senior designer art director at an agency in Minneapolis at the time. And I was getting really good insights on the business side of creative from the particular owner I was working with. He was very transparent about those things. So I found out how much he was profiting per employee, particularly me. And that didn’t match up with my salary.

Now he’s a business owner. has every right to a profit. That’s not what I’m questioning. What I said is that my value is significantly higher than I thought it was this whole time. I thought it was defined by my salary. And the funny thing about these nine to five jobs, and I’m not knocking them, we all have done it and are having to do it, but they pay you just enough to kill your dreams. You know, I’m sure you’ve heard that before and just enough to be comfortable. And when I realized the potential there, I started taking advantage of that, you know,

five to nine time that overnight time. I started, you know, freelancing and getting clients. And when I compared the numbers, I realized if I went full time with my own hustle, I could triple my income and not triple my work hours. So that was the passion part, right? So what that did is it led into my purpose and the purpose was, and I think this is really important is oftentimes when you get into entrepreneurship,

Money should never be your motivation. Money is a reward that comes down later. It should be rooted deeper than that. But if you can tie your entrepreneurship with your lifestyle, your ideal lifestyle and outcome, that is the greatest gift in earth. So for example, imagine you’re a snowboarder and you just want to go to Vail and Whistler and, you know, go down the most amazing double black diamond mountains and make that a part of your lifestyle. Imagine starting a business.

where you could be in that community and make profit. Now you’re in your ideal lifestyle, your ideal community, and you have a business that helps fund that. And that was kind of my motivation. So I am now independent, tripling my income. I’m working half as much. I’m able to travel the world. And as long as I have wifi, I can continue to make money indefinitely in whatever country I stay in. It was the most incredible lifestyle of my life. And there’s some limits to that we can talk about later, but it gave me this purpose.

Vincent Wanga (21:29.1)
and passion combined to continue to progress. And I think people just really need to identify not just passion and purpose, but what is that ideal lifestyle that you want this to lead to? What is that outcome? What is that ambition that you have? If you don’t have that goal and you’re just starting out, what are you doing? You’re making trinkets. You’re not getting paid. You have a very expensive hobby that’s probably gonna cost you your family. So you really have to understand at the end of the day, this is a business.

You have to have business fundamentals and run it accordingly. And I think you’ll be in a much better place than just going on some wild adventure because you don’t want to wake up at 9 a.m. I promise you, you’ll be disappointed by entrepreneurship if that is the case.

Nick McGowan (22:08.812)
Yeah, and it’s interesting because that’s like, there are like shades to that almost.

You know, like there are times where you call it like we can’t sleep or we have a hard time because we’re thinking we got to pay for this. We got this thing coming in. There’s this thing and I’m sure there’s a left hook that’s going to come out of nowhere and like whatever and you just kind of manage through that stuff. You work through it. But if you are in a better mental spot because of the passion and purpose that you have to do these things, you can actually handle those things instead of just being crippled by it. I’ve thought many different times about how many people got into

podcasting during COVID because they were like, what the fuck? I have nobody to talk to. I don’t know what to do right now. I guess I’ll start a podcast or people that became a coach and are like, I guess I’ll become coaches. And if you look at the numbers, they all skyrocketed. then quickly after that just shot down. So many people just couldn’t do it, didn’t want to do it, didn’t have the skills or whatever. And ultimately it wasn’t right for them to be able to do it. Now there are lots of people that stuck with it. I started this in 2014.

Vincent Wanga (22:47.256)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (23:15.145)
So I wasn’t one of those ones that just started it in 20, but I remember thinking that too. Like well now I’m stuck at the house. What am gonna do? And had friends that I talked to and then just came a podcast and whatever else from there. But being able to actually understand like you’re going to start to take those steps and it doesn’t all have to happen at once. So even with the stuff you’re saying like you get to travel, you make money, you do these things. To somebody if they’re listening on the surface they’re gonna go okay cool you’re just another one of those guys who just like pushes this thing and says I live the best life in the world and work.

Vincent Wanga (23:22.648)
Right. Yep.

Nick McGowan (23:45.148)
two hours a day and I harvest butterflies and get four billion dollar homes. Like it’s not what we’re saying. But this is a stacked upon process. Like I talked to people at times, I had somebody on recently it was like man you were in like Idaho and Montana and doing this and you travel and it’s like yeah but this has been a work in progress. This isn’t just one of those things like last Tuesday. It’s like you know what fuck everything else and we’re gonna travel we’re gonna do this thing. It’s like you have to build upon those things so you have to take those initial steps. So for somebody

trying to figure out right now. I hear what you guys are saying, I want to take these steps and I think I kind of know what I want to do but I’m afraid to do it as a creative saying I’m stuck in this system and I have to pay for things and I’ve built this whole big career and what do I do now? What advice do you give them?

Vincent Wanga (24:35.496)
well, the first thing is it’s mostly rooted in fear. Release your inhibition of fear because you will fail. You will fail big, you will fail small, you will fail often. I think what actually ironically makes me successful is my lack of fear of failure. I could write a whole thesis on failure and how that’s affected me. But the true reality is it’s been the greatest education of my life. More than a Harvard MBA could teach me going out there doing something really

hard and failing or succeeding in that are immense lessons that you can apply to the next thing and you’ll fail a little bit less and apply to the next thing and fail a little bit less. And I just talked about earlier how your job posting a position where you, you don’t want to risk that comfortability to go out there and potentially fail, but you have to understand that’s part of the cycle and learning process that gets you to success. love that Japanese proverb, you know, fall down seven times, get up eight. That’s, that is, it’s a cliche, but it’s so true. You just have to.

Nick McGowan (25:29.973)
Hey.

Vincent Wanga (25:35.192)
get out there and fucking do it. And I think the other most important thing is people get into this journey and they’re not prepared for scale. They never think about it. I think they’re too absorbed in the lifestyle part. Like, okay, I get to work from home. I get to take my kids to baseball. This is great. I want to stay in this comfortable zone. If you’re too successful, if you fuck up, you actually have something that scales. Now you need employees. Now you need people to run your business.

Nick McGowan (25:52.084)
Yeah.

Vincent Wanga (26:03.842)
Now you need to redo your supply chain. Now things get more expensive. Now you got to pay attention to your margins. Nobody has that ambition. So always enter this with what is that ideal grand scale? If you’re just in this to just, you again, have this hobby mindset, you will fail and failure is okay, but you need to realize you’re building a business. What is the plan for scale? What is the grand ambition? What is the ideal circumstance you want to reach? And then what resources do you need to get there? I think the second most important thing is

Choosing your business partner wisely. And I’m emphasizing business partner like it’s almost a requirement. Sure, you can get to a certain level by yourself. You know, there’s that saying, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. You need a partner. Nobody has expertise in everything. So figure out what your core competencies are. If you can’t, failure will do that for you. Figure out what you do enjoy and then go find a business partner who complements your skills or compensates for the things that you’re not skilled at. And together.

that you and that person can build something really immense and double your time. Because I think the biggest dilemma, particularly in entrepreneurship, historically has been, how do you duplicate yourself? You get to a certain point, how do you find somebody else who will work as hard as you, who’s as motivated as you, who’s as passionate about you? And I think in this age of AI, it doesn’t take a founding team of six anymore. You, another competent person, and three AI agents can really get to a place where you can scale effectively and efficiently in three years.

So you just have to think about the grand perspective and not treating it as a hobby. And I think that’s half the way to success and release that inhibition of failure. know the stakes get greater as we get older, but imagine, you know, I mentioned Warren Buffett earlier, if he thought that way, imagine if George Washington thought that way, if Martin Luther King thought that way, like anything worth doing is hard. So get over it, get out there and do it and fail. Take those lessons, apply it to the next thing until you succeed.

Nick McGowan (28:01.332)
I think something to point out with.

George Washington, Buffett, anybody else. Like there are times where I bring up purpose and people are like, well, I don’t know if my purpose is supposed to be the next Steve Jobs or something. No, that was his. Let him have his. You do yours. George Washington, Buffett, everybody else had these thoughts of like, this is where I want to get to. This is what I want to do. But it wasn’t like, I’m going to do this because it’s deep in my heart that I’m going to become George Washington or Buffett or whatever else. They had to actually build upon those things.

And there are people that just want to have a solo business. There are people that want to have a small business. And by small, I mean, you know, a few handful of employees, maybe they make millions of dollars, but like, it’s a group of a small group of people. There others that want to have a huge bustling business of hundreds of employees and all of that. But I think it’s important for us to actually talk to ourselves about, do you want it? Because you want the ego of purposes of, have all these employees. I have all these things. Look at the boat that

I have that I never get into because I have to work and manage all these employees. What’s the actual purpose underneath that? And I think as a creative and the people that are creatives, we can rely on the creativity inside of us because that’ll always nudge us along. It’s sometimes really hard to listen to. I’m sure you’ve experienced some of that going through probably years where you’re like, it’s hard to listen to it. I’m being creative, but I’m not really being creative. You’re getting paid to be a creative, but you’re basically like churning things out or using

of stuff and not really creating but everybody’s like well this looks amazing and you’re like I fucking hate it and I hate you and I hate all this stuff so leave me alone. So for people that are in that spot right now and really for the people that are on their path towards self mastery what sort of advice would you give to them?

Vincent Wanga (29:47.938)
Well, speaking specifically to creatives, I think you can relate. We have a very unique mindset when it comes to certain things. And I think people misdiagnose us that our advantage is somehow attached to our hands and the software and skills. It’s our mentality in the way that we think. For example, the way we solve problems are completely different. What most people would see as an obstacle, we see as a challenge and we use our creativity to get around it. With the systems that we build, the solutions that we build, that’s what we get paid for. So I think that

is an invaluable skill when, whether it’s business or your nine to five is remembering that that is your core competency and your greatest value that you bring is your ability to uniquely solve problems. And that’s why we are employed in every single industry in the world and have survived all kinds of efforts to remove us from those industries. And they keep coming back to us because of that skillset. think in addition to that, you just have to really be prepared for change.

And we are an adaptable force. Look at all of the journeys that we’ve been through from the digital revolution and the elimination of print to interactive and AI, all of these things we are at the bleeding, cutting edge of. So we are in a natural position to be early adapters, to see and flesh out these new emerging technologies and see if they’re viable or not, and then use them to our advantage in a competitive sense against some of our non-creative peers in order to thrive.

it while others are being replaced by it. So I think we need to recognize our power in that context and use that to our advantage. I’ll also add that you look at the highest level of leadership, a CEO, right? They have immense powerful responsibilities, but the number one is to create vision. They create the vision like Steve Jobs saying, I want a thousand songs in your pocket. And then it trickles down to the rest to execute and to figure out how to make that vision a reality. So vision is a creative mindset.

creatives have visionary mindset. So why can’t creatives be those same CEOs? We just lack the business acumen. And I think if I was a creative in that position, that’s the first thing I would balance and start studying is what business skills do I lack that can compliment this thing that is very rare, which is that creative mindset that could make me unstoppable in the marketplace. And I am on this mission in my life to help creatives become more entrepreneurial, to think more business minded because the hardest skill we already have.

Vincent Wanga (32:15.498)
So having that balance that yin and yang between the creativity and conceptual and the analytical and business mindset will really put you in a place where you will be much more successful than if you try to pursue anything with just one mindset or the other.

Nick McGowan (32:30.736)
Yeah, what a cool way to be able to put that too. It’s like just being resourceful in that sense. You know, if you think from a basic creative perspective, if you’re just sketching, we need paper or something to draw on. You need the pen or pencil or whatever. And then you need the time. You need these pieces to do these things. So any of these things are like, well, what pieces do I need? Even to the fact about the partners, it’s like, what am I lacking here? What am I not a 10 at? And what does somebody else attend at that I could even just

Have some help with some people don’t want to take on partners. They want to do the business by themselves I think that’s where coaches mentors come into play to be able to say I’ve been through this and before here’s some suggestions Here’s how you can go about it. Even just that fact of like just reaching out and having some of those conversations There’s somebody that’s out there. There’s some information that’s out there and I I Don’t want everybody to just lean on AI and everybody’s gonna do whatever they’re gonna do, but I do think that atrophies things I use AI at times. I mean fucking

everybody does. It’s more so just being pushed on us at this point. But not literally just saying, I’m just going to hand this thing off and not understand how it is. Like you pointed out earlier, if you want to have a brewery, you have to be all these different things. And if all that is too much for you, don’t do it. If you just want to be a money person, then sure, be a money person and never show up. Maybe go and have a beer every once in a while and that’s it. That’s a whole different story though. Like where the fuck did you get that money from? Did you create a business to do that? know, or some

Vincent Wanga (34:00.134)
Sure.

Nick McGowan (34:00.451)
somebody handed to you. But being able to point that out and understand the resources of that and then what you’re good, what you’re not good at, I think it’s really good stuff, man. So I appreciate you bringing that up. It’s been a pleasure having you on. Before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

Vincent Wanga (34:14.382)
No, I really appreciate the conversation. Again, I speak all over the country and internationally. So if I’m in a conference in your area, please feel free to come up to me. And I love meeting new people, especially in different industries. In addition to that, have a website, VincentWongred.com, where you can see some of my other thought leadership across entrepreneurship, creative, design. Leadership is another thing I speak on often. I also have a book called The Art of Direction.

personal perspectives on the path to creative leadership. So that is available through Amazon, Walmart, all the major online retailers and for special order at your bookstore. It’s a book about leadership. And I think that’s agnostic of just the creative industry and the unique, soft and hard skills that you need to make that leap that few people are prepared for. So it also very deeply personal and talks a little bit about my experiences and my journey and of course my failures and how that led to my success.

And then you can also contact me on LinkedIn and Instagram through my website. Those are the primary ways you can get a hold of me.

Nick McGowan (35:20.208)
And again, it’s been pleasure having you on Vince. I appreciate your time.

Vincent Wanga (35:23.478)
Absolutely. Thank you,