“We have to listen to ourselves”

In this episode, Nick speaks with KaRon Spriggs-Bethea to explore themes of self-expression, the impact of trauma on personal growth, and the importance of listening in therapeutic settings.

What to listen for:

• Self-expression can be tied to personal experiences and trauma
• Listening is crucial in therapy to understand clients’ needs
• Therapists should collaborate with clients rather than just giving advice
• Understanding the systems affecting mental health is essential
• Self-care involves multiple dimensions, including physical and emotional well-being
• Values can change over time and should be reassessed regularly

“Even if you can or cannot open that door, the choice to sometimes isn’t right”

• Just because a door is there doesn’t mean it’s the right time—or the right one—to walk through
• It’s not about whether you can do something, but whether doing it aligns with your values and goals
• Some paths look appealing but aren’t meant to be taken just yet—or ever. Honor your intuition
• The right choice isn’t always obvious, but checking in with yourself helps you decide wisely

“What am I feeling around that? Now that I look back at what was going on, what do I feel about that?”

• Looking back with curiosity—not judgment—helps reveal what truly mattered in past experiences.
• Emotions shift as we grow, giving us fresh perspectives on old situations
• Naming emotions helps process them, turning past confusion into present clarity
• Your feelings are data, not directives. They offer insight, but you get to choose how to respond to them moving forward.

About KaRon Spriggs-Bethea

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea is a licensed clinical social worker in Pennsylvania and social work professor at Herzing University. He recently received his Doctorate in Social Work from Capella University. In addition to teaching, KaRon provides therapy at his private practice, Let’s Talk Solutions, where he works with individuals from all walks of life.

• https://letstalksolutions.org/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/karon-spriggs-bethea-dsw-lcsw-849966117/

Resources:

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Click To View The Episode Transcript

Nick McGowan (00:01.778)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Karan Spriggs-Bethea. Karan, how you doing?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (00:04.956)
I’m doing well. How are you?

Nick McGowan (00:15.025)
I’m good. I’m good. I’m looking forward to this conversation. We were joking and laughing with each other a little bit before we hit record. So I think it’s gonna be a good one. And why don’t you get us kicked off? Tell us what you do for a living. And what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (00:17.612)
Yes.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (00:28.142)
Maybe a little odd or bizarre. Yeah, so let’s see. So I’m a social worker. So I am a licensed clinical social worker in Ohio and Pennsylvania. I have my own private practice. And I also am a social work educator. So I teach at a university full time at this point. And yeah, I love it. And in thinking about.

What is something that most people don’t know that’s weird or bizarre? I’ve been thinking about this question ever since you brought it up and thinking, like I am a pretty open book. there’s not a lot of things that people don’t know about me. But let’s see, what?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (01:18.19)
I guess it’s not weird or bizarre, but I really like the art form of drag for the longest time. But when I first started, or for when I first moved to Pittsburgh, I should say, I wanted to actually go into drag and do drag. But I never, like that,

The spark never blossomed from that. Yeah. Yeah, like I said, it’s not weird or bizarre, I don’t think a lot of people know that I like drag, but I don’t think people know that I actually wanted to do drag.

Nick McGowan (01:50.894)
okay

Nick McGowan (02:05.168)
Well, this point, cat’s out of the bag, man. Like, you got to do it. You you’ve brought it up. This is the thing that sounds like it’s there. And, know, a part of the reason why I asked that question is to find out some things that, yeah, you might have like your immediate circle or the people that you talk to often. And then there’s also the people that don’t know you at all, that don’t know anything about you. So anything you say could potentially be out of bizarre. But there’s also, there’s also the things of like, what are the things that don’t typically come up?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (02:06.678)
Right.

Hahaha

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (02:23.566)
Right?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (02:28.718)
True.

Nick McGowan (02:35.054)
because I often see that those can be tied into our character. They can be tied into something that happened when we were younger. So even with that, like the fascination, the impression of things, the thought of it, the want, all of that, there’s something to it. And I think that probably ties into some of the work that you do. It certainly ties into who you are as a person. But then I also think there are certain things like,

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (02:36.374)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah

Nick McGowan (03:01.614)
I’m not trying to call you out at all. But you’re like, Look, I thought about this thing. I haven’t done it yet. So we as the mental health side can then say, Well, what is that some of my timing, you know, like, well, I’m going to do it on Tuesday or something. But also just saying, Well, why do we hold ourselves back from things? Why is it that we want things that we hold ourselves back from? And how does that all tie into everything? So I appreciate that you brought that up. I think that’s a cool thing to be able to say where it’s like,

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (03:19.278)
Why is it that we want things if we hold ourselves back from? And how does that all tie into everything? So I appreciate that you brought that up. think that’s a cool thing to be able to say.

Nick McGowan (03:29.55)
would you just naturally bring it up? You know, unless somebody asked you that sort of question, we’re like, well, yeah, here’s this. But let’s actually get into that a little bit of like, there’s that fascination, the want to the excitement for, but still not moving with and then the work that you do within your social work that some of that stuff with those people, what they go through, abuse,

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (03:31.63)
Right, Yeah.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (03:40.595)
Yeah

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (03:50.508)
Yes.

Nick McGowan (03:54.97)
different traumas, things of that sort that they’re like, I can’t, I don’t know what to do next. I don’t know how to do this. There’s similarities within that, aren’t there?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (04:02.414)
Absolutely, absolutely. And that’s, think that is what has drawn me to this work is that I saw myself not allowing myself to do the things that I wanted to do. Expressing myself in certain ways, being able to really sit with some of trauma or anything.

Really, even giving myself the space to be happy growing up, I did not allow myself to do it because there were thoughts of, should you be happy? Are you supposed to be happy? Or you deserved that to happen. So you have to stay in that space. And so thinking about when I’m working with my clients,

Nick McGowan (04:49.294)
Damn.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (04:57.282)
That I will sometimes muster up some of those things that I’ve gone through. I don’t have to tell them that I’ve gone through it, but how can I help them recognize? It’s okay. It’s okay if you’re experiencing this, what can we do with that now? What were some of those things that came up that we can actually do with those now?

Nick McGowan (05:21.847)
what heavy questions you know, it can be, I think about sometimes it can be a really safe and fun space for us to riff on these things, talk about them, talk about experiences, all of that, but we’re in a safe bubble right here. You know, you and I are and I’ve assumed the place that you’re in is safe. You know, we’re we’re in a safe spot to be able to talk about this. And we’re also not immediately triggered or in any danger, where we have to think differently or work through it. So it can be

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (05:27.406)
Mm-hmm

Yeah, right

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (05:46.86)
Right, right.

Nick McGowan (05:51.832)
kind of fun to like just work through the idea. But when people are really stuck in those things and ask those deep questions, we can sometimes just skip right past it and just it’s already saturated in. that’s, I almost wanted to pause when you brought up the questions of like, do I deserve this? Did I deserve that? I did deserve that. And the transition through all of it and the peripheral things that come off of that too.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (05:55.214)
You

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (06:01.294)
Yes.

Nick McGowan (06:19.256)
Did I deserve that? And the victim mentality, I did deserve that. And the shame that comes with that. And then the fucking long runway after that just ties into everything. It can be so difficult to get macro with that at times. It’s almost like trying to hold your eyes open when you sneeze. You know what I mean?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (06:31.886)
So difficult to get back with that. Exactly. Yeah. And that’s the thing. Those are the types of questions, the types of feelings that people will come in with. And if they didn’t come in with that, we start to work through some of the things that and we start to.

dig a lot deeper than just what’s at the surface. And yeah, as you said, it’s like this whole big, they all come together. It’s that runway of things that just, I’m seeing it now as we start talking about this. And it’s one of those things where we really, we just have, we have to listen. We have to listen to ourselves.

Nick McGowan (07:24.993)
Hmm.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (07:26.456)
But then me as the social worker or the therapist, I have to listen to what are those little nuanced things that might be coming in that the client may not be understanding as being part of what’s going on. But I picked up on, that’s tying to this. now this is all coming together. I I just had a session right before we got on that.

At the end of that session, we were able to really hone in on, that’s what’s happening. That’s why you’re thinking this. That’s why you’re feeling this way. What can we do with that now? What can we make sure we’re focusing on to be sure that we’re not just sulking, for lack of a better word, in what’s going on?

Nick McGowan (08:01.038)
Hmm

Nick McGowan (08:17.197)
To be able to do that in those sorts of situations for yourself. So thinking from the therapist perspective, it takes a lot of experience, wisdom, you know, knowledge from books, etc. But for the most part, it’s like, we can talk about those things, but we can’t remove you from the equation. And all the shit you went through, and all the traumas and all the things, while still not projecting onto somebody else.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (08:24.622)
Mm-hmm.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (08:31.298)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (08:37.857)
Right. Right. Yes.

Nick McGowan (08:45.621)
and listening to them, but understanding. So I wanna break that down a little bit because I know that’s a thing that obviously you get into whether you’re coaching somebody, you’re in a therapy situation, trying to listen and then help them be able to get to the point where they go, got it, I see it. Now what’s the solution? But that thought process again is really difficult like trying to keep your eyes open while you sneeze or being hyper aware of how many breaths you’re taking throughout the day. But let’s break that down a little bit of…

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (08:53.838)
Mm-hmm.

Right

Nick McGowan (09:14.24)
what you’ve gone through to be able to actually have those experiences to go, should I see it? Because I’ve been here before to what does that look like? Like, what do you actually give package wise to your clients to go, look, I know this is a lot. There’s a lot of shit. Here’s what you can do.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (09:25.966)
So, so yeah, think, think for me personally, like the stuff that I’ve gone through, I’ve, I’ve been able to, it’s sort of like that compartmentalization. So let’s, I work through it. I understand that that’s something that I’ve gone through. Now use that I’ve, use my experience as, I don’t want to say leverage, but as a

an example, for lack of a better word, to say, okay, yeah, this is what someone’s going through. This is something that I’ve gone through. I wanna see what they’ve done first and what they’re doing before I give any sort of advice. Because we also wanna make sure as therapists that we are collaborating with our clients and not just going straight into giving advice. So I take the approach of

Nick McGowan (10:22.251)
Mm-hmm.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (10:25.3)
I’m here to support and I want to help as much as I possibly can, but I can’t be the voice. You have a voice, I have a voice. Both of our voices are going to be in this space together. And so we have to be willing to work together and willing to collaborate on whatever that thing is so that I don’t so…

And it’s not that I don’t wanna be triggered, but I have to make sure that listening to their voice, I’m letting my voice over here say, okay, you’re hearing this, what are you feeling? And as a therapist, it’s like, there’s that space that you have to sort of be in of I’m here listening, but also what is…

Nick McGowan (11:17.066)
Mm-hmm.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (11:22.542)
What are you experiencing at this point too? And it’s okay to sometimes call that out too. Don’t put so much emphasis on it, but it’s okay to call that out and say, yeah, this is reminding me of something. And I am also feeling something that is not great based on what you’re saying. Can we talk about that? And what does that bring up?

Nick McGowan (11:46.175)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (11:49.664)
Hmm. Somebody layers to all of it, you know, and then so many different contextual situations almost it’s like if somebody says, I talked to all my friends about this situation. And they all say the same thing or there I’m getting this or I’m getting that it’s almost like blind leading the blind. And you might have good advice or whatever. But that’s where professionals come into play. Because I think a lot of what’s kind of not just taught but

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (11:51.895)
Yeah.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (11:55.758)
almost it’s like if somebody says

Yes.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (12:05.962)
Yeah, yes

Nick McGowan (12:17.739)
assumed that you need to take is don’t project. You need to listen, you need to help. That’s what like coaching or I think coaching has like a weird thing to it because there are a lot of people that are like, I know a thing, I’ll coach you about it. Like fucking that’s not, it’s not what it’s about. But being able to understand that it’s still that human working with that other human. And then additionally tying in modalities outside of that, like there are some people I talked to every once in a while that

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (12:28.684)
Right.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (12:36.322)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (12:46.281)
are trying to get into, I know that I’m fighting with something and I to get through it, how do I do it? And their initial thought is therapy. Even some people that listen to this that are deeper into other modalities, they’re like, well, therapy doesn’t work for me because different things work for different people, but that’s also not the end be all. It’s like, there’s so many other pieces to it. So as you work with people and you try to help them figure out what’s going on, do you then tie in other modalities to that?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (13:01.998)
100 %

on.

Nick McGowan (13:15.755)
And how do you look for those things from a therapist level to say, you know what? think EMDR, DBT or whatever could be the next best step with this.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (13:18.19)
from a therapist level to say, know what, the mean VR could be the next best step. Absolutely. And so yes, I think that’s a really good point. One, I wanted to point out something that you said, a human with another human. That’s something that we have to remember. There’s a human in front of you, but you as the therapist are also human.

And so there are gonna be these things, these feelings, all of that that will come up. But how do you deal with it as the person, as the professional that’s helping? When it comes to modalities, yes, if it’s something that I can do, so like EMDR, that’s something that I can provide to individuals. What is the other one? IFS or internal family systems, I’m able to provide that.

sort of modality as well. If it’s something that I can’t provide, then I will build up my network. I have a network of other therapists, other professionals that I can really lean on, for lack of a better word, to say, hey, have a client who needs X, Y, and Z. And it may not be the other thing. And we started talking about systems before we started recording.

it may be other systems that are not mental health related in particular. And so as a social worker, we are built to, and we learn to look at those systems, all the systems that are involved. So thinking about if someone is coming in, their mental health is not great, they’re having anxiety, they’re having depression, but they don’t have stable housing. They don’t have

Nick McGowan (15:08.851)
Mm-hmm.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (15:10.134)
a job that is paying them enough to be able to buy food or transportation or anything like that, that’s gonna play a part in things too. So I also have a catalog, for lack of a better word, of things and organizations that I can send people to and provide information to. So that is another way that different modalities and different ways of working with someone.

Nick McGowan (15:32.286)
Nice.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (15:40.014)
comes to play as well because we do have to think about those systems because they play such a big part on how someone is living their life.

Nick McGowan (15:42.142)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (15:52.435)
Well, just like what a good amount of those systems lack resources is what you’re talking about. So being able to provide resources in that sense, I, I’m seeing a little bit of like, a theme almost with what we’re talking about, because from this perspective, and I think I’m pointing this out for the audience of like, they’re sitting in the seat of the therapist and then they’re sitting in the seat of yourself. And then there’s kind of a third party to be able to look at it all.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (15:56.82)
Exactly. Exactly.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (16:02.414)
I’m seeing a little bit of like…

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (16:13.474)
Yes. Right. Exactly.

Nick McGowan (16:21.629)
And that’s where the systems come into play. Because we can see the pieces and the people, but you have to step outside of that to then ask deeper and deeper. Like if somebody has mental health issues because they’re in an unstable environment, you have to go to that. And that’ll start to fix those other things. It’s almost like these people are bleeding, just totally bleeding out. Just fucking put a bandage on it. What the hell do you mean put a bandage on it?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (16:44.439)
Yes, yes

Nick McGowan (16:49.213)
Like in real life, somebody would be like, fuck off this thing, you just stop the bleeding. Like, what do you mean? But we don’t look at that because it’s almost like being in the forest, trying to look for the forest when you’re staring at the tree. You know what I mean?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (16:52.27)
Yeah. Yeah.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (16:58.67)
in the forest, trying to look for the forest when you stare at the tree, you know what I Yep. we, yeah, we cannot, we can’t just put a band-aid on things. And unfortunately, I think that is what happens in some situations where systems are not looked at or different aspects of a person’s life is not looked at. We’re just gonna slap this band-aid on and say, oh.

it seems like you’re fixed. But then we don’t pay attention to, well, now they’re going back outside of the safe setting.

It worked in here, but it’s not working out in the real world.

Nick McGowan (17:44.954)
And when we look at it, we talk about it. It’s like, on, how does that make any sense? But when you’re in it, it’s, it’s harder to actually see that stuff. I want to actually step back a little bit because I think from the perspective of somebody that’s not actively in some crazy dire situation where it’s like they’re trying to deal with their mental health and they go home and they’re in shambles and like they’re pipe sticking out and like random shit like, let’s just assume that most of the people listening to this aren’t totally in that spot.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (17:49.838)
Right, right, right.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (17:54.926)
Hmm.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (17:58.296)
Yeah

Nick McGowan (18:14.802)
there may be some that are in a transition or whatever. But for the most part, the people that listen are leaders. They’re doing something with either the career or with their business or whatever. And I think if we tie this then into the systems within what we work with our family system, our company system, but then even our own individual systems, like people will be like, man, I don’t get it. I don’t understand. I’m just so drained and I’m this and I’m that, but I get three hours of sleep every night. It’s like,

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (18:19.41)
Yes.

Nick McGowan (18:44.328)
Well, so you probably need like triple that. Um, but then also thinking like, um, deficiencies, are, uh, vitamin deficiencies, there are different diseases and things of that sort. And all of this ties in together. So let’s wrap this up a little bit because all of this is kind of tying together for you and your own personal life and how you’ve kind of grown into where you’re at today.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (18:48.77)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah

Nick McGowan (19:13.179)
thinking through this stuff, what sort of disciplines do you have in place to be able to work with yourself and tie into yourself and say like, what am I feeling? What’s going on? But also be able to look at those systems like am I getting enough sleep? Am I fucking drinking enough water? Do I have deficiencies? Am I being oppressed? Am I being whatever?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (19:25.676)
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (19:32.984)
Self care is a big part of it. So I take an approach of there’s six different types of self care that I will make sure I’m paying attention to. My physical self care, so can I get up and do something? Even if I’m not going outside or I’m not doing anything that’s like super, super physical, I’m at least walking around or doing something. I think it’s also paying attention to, as you said, like the deficiencies,

drinking enough water, getting enough sleep, hygiene, all those sort of things. Am I taking care of myself in that way? So I think we pay attention to, we think physical self care is just that physical. I’m just physically doing something. And so I will look at all these different types of self care and incorporate something from each of those categories. So sitting down and watching

watching TV is a good sense of self care for me. Journaling, reading, getting active in the community in the sense of as a social worker, there are certain things that I can do. Getting involved politically with certain things to add and advocacy stuff, that is something that I do for myself as self care. I mean, going off of that with everything politically going on.

being able to also take a step back and say, I want to be informed, but I don’t have to be inundated with everything that’s going on. So I give myself 15 minutes every day to just scroll through and see what has happened. And that’s it. I don’t want to inundate myself with everything that’s going on because that’s not going to be good.

Nick McGowan (21:09.67)
Hmm.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (21:28.684)
And it’s going to stick in my mind of, world is going to shit, for lack of a better word.

Nick McGowan (21:35.814)
Yeah. man. I am debating, actively debating. Do we really dive down that path?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (21:44.686)
It’s a heavy one.

Nick McGowan (21:48.455)
Cause there are systems within all of that. There are things that are being adjusted, changed, and there are like good and interesting situations that could have a positive spin, but we have to base things off of patterns and how things have worked before and why the orange man is doing the things he’s doing and whatever the fuck else is happening.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (21:54.134)
Right.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (22:05.292)
Right,

Right, right. And I think it’s also looking at, we also have to look at the experiences that we individually have had. So you talked about like that individual system, based on that, what are those experiences and how are we taking in some of the things that are happening? Because that will, again, that will also influence the way that we’re going about certain things or even like,

Either we’re happy about certain things or we’re anxious about certain things or upset about certain things. That is going to play a huge part in that.

Nick McGowan (22:48.006)
Hmm. I think a summary of pretty much all of this is that there are layers to every single thing and there are doors to be opened from everything, but it’s us to be able to open it or not. I, I want to bring that up though, because I think there’s also a thing to be able to say about.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (22:54.082)
Yes.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (23:00.12)
Yep.

Nick McGowan (23:07.565)
Even if you can or cannot open that door, the choice to sometimes isn’t, isn’t ours to make and it’s made for us. And to be able to then see it from somebody else’s perspective, if we can as well, systems wise, you personally have dealt in different systems than I have. Some of that is where you were even in like, grew up right outside of Philadelphia and you were in Harrisburg and like same state, but their differences.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (23:07.822)
even if you can or cannot open that door, the choice to…

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (23:16.16)
Mm-hmm.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (23:22.532)
Yeah.

Some of that is where you were even in, I grew up, right outside of Philadelphia.

Right. Yep. Right.

Nick McGowan (23:36.067)
And then cultures and different things that happen. then things that some of us are just totally oblivious to. because we don’t know of a things that’s happening or what have you. So being able to understand that from somebody else’s perspective can also then help us say, well, what’s a similar thing in my life and how do I do something with this layer? So what do you do in that sort of sense to be able to help somebody understand there’s a similarity in a bridge, but then also to be able to empathize.

to look from that other perspective. Cause I know there are certain times where I’ve looked racism as a major thing to be able to look at and go, shit, some of the ways, some of the people that I lived with or were around as I grew up, some of the shit that they did or said, it was like, my God, I see how that was not normal, but it was in certain circles. So you know what I mean?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (24:07.436)
Yeah

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (24:23.034)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that it’s finding that balance between, this is what happened. This is what was going on in certain circles. And we want to acknowledge that, yes, it may not have been great or it was great in that circle. But then also balancing that with,

What am I feeling around that? Now that I look back at what was going on, what am I feeling about that? I know growing up, there were certain things that I did or said that I’m like, oof, oof, why? Why did I say that? Why did I do that? But it’s also looking at the value sets, the value changes that may come up as you grow and as you

Nick McGowan (25:07.193)
Yeah.

Yeah.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (25:22.104)
get older, and you learn different things. so thinking of that’s actually where I start with people is, let’s look at your values. What were they then versus what are your values now? They may be the same. There may be things that are still the same. But there’s also probably going to be things that have changed. And so what can we do with those value changes that can bring about a better sense of identity?

and a better sense of this is how I’m living my life.

Nick McGowan (25:58.922)
I want to guess at this number, but I’m just going to assume most of the people you ask what are your values or principles are like,

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (26:08.29)
Yes, yes.

Nick McGowan (26:09.838)
well, you see, and that’s a thing that’s not really taught to us to do. And then in some ways it’s almost taught too much. Like, well, if you just know what your principles and your values are, you do this thing and that thing, the world’s going to work. It’s like, but you also forget about trauma. You forget about systems and fuck your context is different than mine. And you know, all of those, but the understanding us from our own perspective of like, well, a value to me is let’s say.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (26:16.11)
Yeah.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (26:23.31)
It’s gonna be fine.

Yep. Yep.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (26:34.702)
our own perspective of like, well, a value to me is let’s say, open communication, right? Beautiful. We can then work through that on our own. Or with somebody like yourself or a therapist coach, whatever that is. But then to be able to go, huh, well, why is this?

Nick McGowan (26:38.659)
open communication or honesty. Beautiful. We can then work through that on our own or with somebody like yourself or a therapist, coach, whatever that is, but then to be able to go, huh, well, why is that? And being able to dive deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (26:52.172)
Yeah, yeah. And one thing that we want to think about too is that you may have the same value from, when you were a teenager to an adult, but the definition and the way that you think about that value may have changed. And how important that value is to you may have changed. So that’s something we really want to.

be mindful of as well, because if we’re thinking our values are the same as they were when we were teenagers, we’re going to potentially live our lives as we were as teenagers. And if we’re not readjusting and paying attention to that, that’s what’s going to happen. And for some people, that may be fantastic. For others, and in my situation,

with, I mean, personally myself, but also with a lot of clients, it’s like, no, can’t keep thinking about the value in this way.

Nick McGowan (27:53.047)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (27:57.502)
And I immediately thought of like the really older guys at the bar that are still trying to be 25 and you’re clearly you were born in the 60s or something, you know what I mean? And there are people that like, are people my age now, so I graduated in 02 and 40, they have kids that their kids are.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (28:10.392)
Yep. Yep.

Nick McGowan (28:24.099)
basically going to college or there are things that are going on. And then there are certain people that were from high school or that age or whatever that are like, they’re still 18, 19 years old. And even with that, I think with all of this, like you can then ask a question that goes from that topic to how did we get here and what are all the steps that got you to here? Cause something happened at some point, the evolution stopped. They were like, this is where I’m at. This is what I’m doing.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (28:25.454)
Mm-hmm

Right.

Nick McGowan (28:51.318)
Like the people that were like the quarterback in high school and prom king, and that’s where they stayed. Like they peaked at 16 and that was it. Other people that didn’t and you know, we all have those choices to make. with all of that and everything we’ve talked about so far, for the people that are on their path towards self mastery, what advice would you give to them?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (28:51.982)
Yes

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (29:10.542)
What advice would you give to people? What I would say is make sure, one, think about your values. Think about the things that you value now as an individual, as what you value within your family, within your community, all those sort of things. Pay attention to those things and how they’re funneling into what you do.

for work, for yourself, for your family, whatever that looks like. I think another part of this is making sure that you can, you were talking about like peaking.

We can, they don’t, I wanna tell people don’t think that you’ve peaked. There are gonna be times where like, yes, I’ve got to this highest level somewhere, but I can potentially go higher. I don’t have to, but I can potentially go higher. So what does that look like? So I, and slow yourself down. Don’t push too hard to the point where you’re burning out.

You’re making mistakes that you typically wouldn’t make if you were able to pay attention to these things. One thing that I say a lot to clients is, we’re humans. One, we’re going to make mistakes. But two, we’re going to learn from those mistakes. And we’re going to do something different with it. But we also have to actively.

want to do that. So that’s the other thing is what motivations do I have to do the things that I’m doing and want to do.

Nick McGowan (31:09.081)
Good points. And especially with the, the peaking thing, like if you decide that subconscious believes it, that’s where you’re at. that also makes me think whenever somebody says to me, I’m a guru or an expert, like I’m done listening to that point. Like, cool. Good luck in life. Okay. I’m not no longer here. I just, it doesn’t make any sense. Like the more you learn, the more, at least I’ve noticed the more I don’t know.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (31:12.494)
Like if you decide that, it’s not just a police or whatever you’re at. That also makes me think whenever somebody says to me I’m a goobler.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (31:22.863)
Right, right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (31:35.111)
Yes, But seriously, yeah, like you it’s like, I didn’t I didn’t know that. I mean, I’m, as I said, I’m a social work educator, and there are still things after almost five years of teaching that I’m like, huh, interesting, did not know that, or, or, my gosh, I completely forgot that was that was a thing. We

Nick McGowan (31:36.257)
It’s like, God, the more I learn, the more stupid I feel at times. Like, fuck. What the fuck am I no-no?

Nick McGowan (31:58.71)
Yeah.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (32:02.846)
need to, that idea of continually educating ourselves. Learning is lifelong. And so if we can do that, we’re going to keep going. We’re going to keep having that success that we’re looking for. But we also want to make sure it’s OK to have failures too. And I don’t even want to say, I want to take that back. I don’t want to say that they’re failures. They are things that just got in the way.

of what we were looking for, but it’s an obstacle, an obstacle or a barrier. That’s what I would want to say. And we got around it. And we’re still going.

Nick McGowan (32:42.379)
Yeah, good point. Yeah. And awesome, man. I really appreciate you being on and this has been a great conversation. Before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (32:46.904)
Yes. Thank you.

Yes, so I’m not currently on social media right now, so you can find me at my email contact at letstalksolutions.org or you can go to my website. It’s letstalksolutions.org.

Nick McGowan (33:09.638)
love that you’re not on social media. I tell people that I’m not really on social media anymore. And I took hey, this and they’re like, how do you what do you? What do you mean? So good on you, dude. Good on you. Cool. Again, thank you so much for your time today.

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (33:11.404)
you

KaRon Spriggs-Bethea (33:17.439)
Right.

Thank you. Thank you.

Yes, thank you for having me.

https://youtu.be/tj9QuYgdKQY