Mark Lieberman, host of the radio show and podcast on “The World According to Mark”, discusses one of the world’s most urgent problems, the environment, with Jan Spencer, an advocate for “Permaculture”. Jan got his degree in Geography, and then for decades has studied all over the world about ways to help people learn how to meet their needs for food, water, energy, and other essentials in a resilient and environmentally sustainable manner. Permaculture is a creative design process based on whole systems thinking informed by ethics and design principles.