JAC:Welcome to #WeGotGoals, a podcast by aSweatLife.com on which we talk to high achievers about their goals. I'm Jeana Anderson Cohen; with me, I have Maggie Umberger and Cindy Kuzma.

CK: Good morning, Jeana.

MU: Good morning, Jeana.

JAC: Good morning.

CK: Jeana, registration I know has been open for a little while now for something super exciting here at aSweatLife. Do you to want to talk about that a little bit?

JAC:I’d love to. So every year, twice a year aSweatLife hosts a week that's like restaurant week for fitness across Chicago. We create a schedule. We challenge people to try new things and to meet new people and you can find that schedule on aSweatLife.com, but every morning we will be encouraging people to set and achieve big goals just like we do on this podcast and every evening we'll be exploring new neighborhoods through the culture of sweat. We will finish the whole week with a fitness festival and we can't wait to see you there.

CK:And what are the dates for this week of awesomeness?

JAC: June 4th through the 9th. We can't wait.

CK: So if you're listening in real time, sign up now and if you're listening to this later on, I know there's going to be another amazing SweatWorking week soon.

JAC:Of course, but Cindy, this week you did the interview with two goal-getters.

CK:Yes. I talked to Tim and Jessica Murphy who are a couple and they are also the co-founders of BibRave, which is a pretty cool website and community and company focused on runners that started right here in Chicago.

JAC:And speaking of couples, I know that Tim and Jessica are married. I too am married to a co-founder of my company. He was my husband before he was a co-founder. Did they have any advice or guidance for couples who work together in that way?

CK:It's interesting. We did get into this maybe even a little bit more than they thought. After this interview. They were kind of like, oh, we didn't realize this was going to turn into like a talk about our marriage, but it kind of did and and it was great. Two big things. One was they started the company together, but Tim went full-time there before Jessica did and he said that that was actually really motivating to him, that he wanted to work really hard to make it worthy of her being there full-time, um, because he thought that she was just so good and so talented at what she did, that he wanted to make it a proposition that she was really excited about bringing her considerable skills to that community full time. The other thing that they said was that working together now full time has actually improved their marriage, that they have a specific way of talking to each other about business problems where he kind of sets the tone and gives her some context, lets her know what's coming next and what's required of her to answer a specific question that he's like, I don't need that, but she does. And communicating that way in business has made me realize, oh, the communication that we have in our marriage is so much better when I use that same technique in our marriage too and, and everything just becomes simpler. So it was really interesting to hear them talk about that a bit.

MU: Bibrave has an incredible community across the country, not only online but in real life that I had no idea really how big it was until hearing them talk about it and then looking up a little bit more since I'm not a runner myself, but I see how much importance they place on community and then their definition of it was also very interesting. Can you talk a little bit about how they define community and what their standards are for it?

CK: Yeah, so when they started BibRave, it was initially just a website for race reviews and now it really has grown into this community. And what they realized along the way was that the idea of community, it isn't enough just to be like, oh, people use the site, they show up, they're the community. They have to be really intentional about building that community online and as you say, offline. So they're always doing things to increase engagement. Like they have this great twitter chat that encourages people to talk to each other and they've really worked hard on giving runners more opportunity to meet up in real life. They've tried to organize meetups at races, they've tried to connect people in regions so that these BibRave pros who see each other all the time online can then solidify that relationship in real life and they've really seen the power of that community, help people achieve their running goals and life goals, and that's something I know you all see at aSweatLife too with your ambassadors, how you bring people together.

CK:It's not enough to just sort of text or tweet at people. It's really about coming together and being intentional about talking about your goals and how you plan to achieve them.

JAC: It's been so exciting to watch the community that BibRave has grown and I can't wait for this interview. Here is Cindy, with Jessica and Tim.

CK:This is Cindy Kuzma and I am here with Jessica and Tim Murphy, the co-founders of BibRave. Tim and Jessica, thank you so much for joining me today on the #WeGotGoals podcast.

JM: Thanks for having us. We're super excited to chat with you.

TM: It is a pleasure to be on.

CK: So I'm really looking forward to talking with you both because I have known you for awhile and I've seen BibRave grow so much overtime and we're here in Boston for the marathon, which makes things even more exciting. There's always such a fun energy around running and around this race and I know it's a place that we kind of get to reconnect every year. So it's so cool. So I wondered if you could start by kind of introducing us to BibRave a little bit, telling us what it is and  the role that each of you play in it.

JM:Alright, I'll start. So BibRave started as like a Yelp or Tripadvisor for race reviews. We wanted a place where people could come together and share with other runners their experiences and since then it's grown into this huge community of runners who not only share race reviews, but now we work with different brands. And other races so that we have a community of influencers that can review races and products, share their experiences with others and just bring people together of all experiences and different types of shapes and bodies and sizes and goals and have objectives.

TM:Yes, so when we first got started, we were kind of looking at ways that we could establish own social media presence.

TM:So we started a twitter chat which became pretty popular pretty quickly. It was centered around the Hashtag #bibchat. And noticed that a group of people coming back week after week, month after month, were running bloggers and so we thought why not bring them all together to use their collective audiences and readers and followers help races and brands to reach more runners? And so that's how we started our community of influencers known as the BibRave Pros.

CK: And I definitely want to hear more about the BibRave pros and kind of what it takes to be one. But first I want to talk about the beginning a little bit. I know that BibRave started because of a sub optimal personal experience that you had. Right? I wondering if you could talk to our listeners a little bit about that.

JM:Yes, and I feel comfortable talking about this because the race that I had a suboptimal experience is no longer around. It was formerly known as the Suntrust National Marathon. It was, has since then been bought by Rock ’n Roll and obviously they put their Rock ’n Roll footprint on it, so I think a lot of things a bit buttoned up, but it was only my second marathon ever and I trained through the Chicago winters, which was horrible. I paid many and spent time to travel there and I just felt like, ah, if I could have had the experience that I had in Chicago, it would have made this, that much more worth it and so we really wanted to start it so that people could learn from other people's experiences and I was very big into user generated content, wanting to hear from my peers what their experiences were.

TM:Yeah. We, if I remember correctly, Jessica had done a good amount of research, but she was only finding like races’ Facebook pages, which are not necessarily like the most authentic reviews because we don't know if any of those were changed by the race or anything like that. Like it's just not something that is owned by the users. And the other option was like forums, which is just a terrible user experience. So I do remember both of us thinking, how is there not a more definitive place to find out what runners think of a race beforehand? And that's kind of the initial phase for the the idea for BibRave.

CK: And I know it's kind of grown and changed and you've accomplished so much since then. So what we talk about on the #WeGotGoals podcast, we ask two big questions and the first one is what is a big goal that you've achieved? Why was it important to you and how did you get there? So I figured in the context of BibRave you've accomplished a lot, but is there kind of one, one thing either collectively or individually within the company that you would highlight as something you're particularly proud of?

TM: So just sort of like as it relates to Jessica and I have, this is now both of our full time jobs and so that has been really gratifying for both of us because it started as an idea and we both put a lot of hard work into it and just had a lot of challenging situations from that come with starting any kind of business and so just getting it off the ground at all and then having it become like an actual thing so to speak and then something that we can both work on full time and you know, there's, there's five of us now on the team.

TM:So that personally has just been really gratifying. And was, it was a goal whether or not we stated it explicitly or not. I think that we both ultimately wanted it to be our thing. And right now it is.

CK: Yeah. I think I remember talking to you closer to the beginning, I believe you said that was a goal. Maybe you were like, I think it was a goal, so it is really cool to watch that and to see you and not even just the two of you. Like you said you have five and then you have this whole other community of people supporting you. So it's been incredible.

TM: And one thing I would add, like I think if we, I, I kind of wish we had been more honest with ourselves about it being a goal. I think we probably didn't have enough confidence or we didn’t, we didn't really talk about it and we're pretty goal-driven people, we’re very like planning-focused and I just don't know that we were ever super honest about that being a goal and I don't know if it was because we didn't know if it was realistic or we didn't want to face the reality of it not coming to pass. So we didn't talk about it too much, but I still think it was ultimately something that we wanted to do and it's just, I wish we had been a little bit more explicit about it.

JM:One thing I will say is I tend to be more risk averse and I feel like Tim is much more willing to take on new risks. So it's no surprise four years into it, Tim went fulltime on BibRave two years ago and I'm just now coming full time on BibRave as of three or four months ago. I think if we were jumping both feet in the deep end right away, we would have both gone full time, but I think we eased into it. The benefit in hindsight is that our business has evolved so much since we first started. What we're doing now is not at all what we envisioned we would be doing when we launched BibRave and to me, one thing that I'm the most proud of is that I think we've evolved our business to mold to needs that we see in the running industry. As we go to conferences and we go to events and we hear the needs of brands and race directors and that's what I'm super proud of is that we haven't said this is our plan and we're sticking to it and we're so rigid in how we've defined our business. We've been able to evolve and launch new projects as a result of needs that we've seen.

CK:Yeah. I was interested in kind of how you go about aligning—It seems like you found a sweet spot aligning the goals of your BibRave pros and the brands that you work with and the races that you work with, but it's probably like a little bit of a balancing act to figure out where everyone's goals do align, so how do you kind of navigate that? How do you work with, with everyone to make sure that you keep everyone's goals aligned, if that makes sense?

TM: Yeah. I think that it's critical for everything to be very win win, win for our partners, for the BibRave pros and for the brand and I've been thinking about this more and more recently. We're trying to pull together like a mission statement of sorts and I will not try to speak extemporaneously about how that's been going so far, but really like one of the things just sort of like to touch on the BibRave pro aspect and to also go back to goals for the company.

TM:It's been immensely satisfying to see this community of not just the BibRave Pros, which are like the community of running bloggers that we have sort of in our in our family, but also the BibRave community in general. To just become a part of those people's running lives has just been amazing and to watch accomplishments, people to be hitting accomplishments that they didn't think they could hit and bringing everybody along for the journey. That's very, very cool and it, it wasn't something that we could have known was a goal, but I think it's something that we've been really proud of so far. As far as like how to keep the balance in act there. It's really just trying to be honest about everybody's priorities and not just like taking things for granted. So never trying to take the brand partners or race partners for granted, never taking the BibRave Pros for granted and really just trying to focus on everything being win, win, win.

JM:When we started with the BibRave Pros, at first it was a community just to serve BibRave and I think when we were out talking to other partners and other people in the industry, one thing that struck us was people want experts in social media and in community and we have that, but we're kind of only using it to serve BibRave. But what if we started to use it to serve other people in the industry and that was like the light bulb moment for us probably like around 2015 and when we started to again then leverage our community to help kind of other brands and companies. So I again, I, I pat ourselves on the back in hindsight that we were able to do that. I don't think we knew at that time it would grow into the business that is now. So super excited that it has.

JM:And then things like last year we launched the BibRave 100, which again was just seeing a need that there was no place that had a definitive list year over year, the way you think of like the U.S. News and World Report top colleges that was the Bible when we were kids about where you would find like the best colleges to go to and we really want this to become that and we feel like we have the right community to do it. We have the right kind of like social savvy to get the word out and to get people to participate. And again that wasn't part of our original plan, but has become now a pillar of what we do.

CK: And the BibRave 100. That's just like a list of awesome races, right?

JM: Yeah, it is top 20 marathons, top 20 half marathons, top 15 10Ks, top 15 5ks. And then we have three top 10 lists of categories that the runners get to vote on. So last year it was the best medal, the best scenery, and then best race management.

CK:Tell me about these BibRave Pros. How many you have now and what it kind of takes to be one of these days.

TM: So there are 100-plus BibRave pros, maybe like 110, 115. But to become a BibRave pro, we don't have like a super specific or rigid or singular requirement. Like when we first got started we thought okay, we need people who have, I don't know, 20,000 followers on twitter and that's a made up number, but it was then too. We were like, we just need size. We didn't know any better and we didn't see the most like genuine content coming out of those people. And that's not to say that it can't exist, but that wasn't our experience. So we started actually like leaning into more of this sort of micro influencer space. People who have had a few thousand followers on twitter, maybe the same on Instagram.

TM:Some are much bigger than that, but you know, people who are relatable running personalities, people who struggle with things like weight gain or injury or plateauing or just, you know, burnout. Things that all runners are kind of like dealing with, the BibRave pros are examples of those things and they can help people overcome those difficulties. They can help them feel more empowered to hit their goals. Like they're just a much more relatable and inspiring group of people. So definitely not like a singular cookie cutter. You must fit into this and you must check this box. We have, you know, BibRave Pros apply and we take a look at their entire social profile. Some of them are more influential in real life, they lead running groups, things like that. So we definitely try to look at the entirety of the person.

JM:Another big thing for us I think is kind of attitude and personality. Like we want to embody the fun and the communal aspect of running and also being in the running and racing space, we know that there are realities of business that happen, especially for a ton of our race partners. There are things that can happen on a race day that are just unavoidable. No matter how closely you can plan or how detailed you can plan, things are going to happen with any live event. And so we want people who kind of like have empathy that things can happen, who want to know what has happened and are not, I'm just being necessarily negative when critiquing, if it's a race or a product. So we try to imbue kind of like what constructive criticism I guess or like positive thinking and that empathy that comes from knowing what's going on behind the scenes because they're more educated, they kind of know everything that goes on behind the scenes.

TM:That doesn't require like a Pollyanna lens at all, but it's much more like a productive approach. And uh, so yeah, it's kind of all ties back into like the, the holistic approach of like who is this person, what are they about and will they kind of fit in with the larger BibRave Pro family.

CK: And that makes sense. And as you say, because you're not just building a service for brands, you're building a community too. So that is all so important. Talk to me a little bit more about community and how you all have seen the power of community in running, whether it's among the BibRave pros or even when you talk about your own running goals.

TM: So this is actually like I, I love talking about community and what the actual, what the word actually means because I feel like it gets used and sort of abused a lot.

TM:A lot of people say, oh, this is our community and I'll ask like, what does that mean when you say your community? And sometimes they'll be like, oh, it's our users if it's like an app company. And I'm like, that always makes me a little uncomfortable because I'm like, there's not necessarily a community. It could be, but just the fact that you have readers or users or even followers does not make them community. Or if they’re your past participants for an event or a past customer, like it's not a community until there becomes this sort of like interconnected fabric where they're all like concerned with one another's wellbeing and they're cheering for each other and they're sad with each other. Like there is a genuine connection between them. They're not just people who happen to call themselves the same thing. So that's kind of how I differentiate it. It's more than just a collection. It's sort of like an integrated collection

JM:And I think, you know, Tim was mentioning we're working on this idea of the mission statement. Community is at the heart of that, but I think ultimately defining our definition of community will become critical to that vision because I do think we define it in different ways than a lot of people.

CK: That's interesting. And for you all personally, how has having this community, I mean has it kind of reflected back in other parts of your life too? Like in your running or in your personal goals?

TM: Yeah. We were talking with some people at the expo today and we're talking with a brand partner and they had somebody who they knew come up and start chatting and so then the five of us, the four of us were chatting or the five of us and it turns out that one of them is next door neighbors with one of our BibRave Pros. So she saw my shirt and she's like, oh my God, guys are with BibRave, my friend runs with you guys. And when we were like, Oh, who's your friend? Like we obviously will know who it is, and she said who it was and it was just like those kinds of interactions are very cool because you get to see more of their life and more of their friends and things like that, but also just watching them run races they didn't think that they would otherwise be running, whether that's a distance they didn't think they could conquer or a time they didn't think they could hit. That has been super cool to watch unfold throughout the BibRave Pro scene.

JM:We also have some pros who have become like BRFs or best running friends with other pros across the country and have considered themselves BRFs for years before actually meeting in person, which is like a really powerful thing to think, I can consider you my best running friend but we haven't met and then now we're meeting for the first time in two years. Or just this past spring, one of our BibRave pros was at a marathon and one of our race partners, the race director was there running and trying to run a BQ time and our BibRave Pro is there running the half and so afterwards he was there and like caught a, you know, a picture of the race director on mile 25 and like, and they know each other through BibRave and they feel connected that way. Like that is a really kind of cool thing to just feel the community. It's a very big one, but then it seems smaller in those small moments.

CK: That has got to be incredibly gratifying. Wow. To think that you created this and then those kinds of connections happen.

JM: Absolutely.

CK: So it's interesting and they want to talk about your goals for the future too, but you know, how do you think that you'll be able to keep that kind of community if, if BibRave continues to grow.

JM: So we are grappling with this as every I would say company does or any type of community does as you grow. Part of it I think is Tim and I staying involved in the community We have a community manager that manages our pros and we want to empower her and you know, I will say in the past year or two we kind of took a step back because we wanted it to be like her thing.

JM:But then we had heard honestly from our pros that they felt like we were not connected to them. So now we're just staying involved and it, and it's a learning for us because at first we thought well we're going to empower you to be the person that manages them, but now we know they still want to feel like we as co-founders and owners are invested in them. So that's part of it. Two, I think with any community, there's one, I obviously like the regional connection, so we have different regions and they have little micro communities within them but also the connections that happen within races. So we're finding different ways for people to meet new people within the community and not just talk to like the same 10 people that they've known for a long time. And I'm hoping that way, even though it's 100 and may become more people, find new ways to connect with more people.

TM:Yeah. And I would just say sort of echoing a little bit with Jess said, finding new ways for them to interact with one another and finding new ways for us to interact with them. So part of our own podcast is just our way of sort of putting a voice to the BibRave brand for us to create content. We weren't doing like a blog or anything so we thought the podcast would be a really good way for us to still be communicating with the BibRave community and sort of putting our own content out there. So just looking for more opportunities like that will be, it is in will be important to us in the next two to four years.

CK: And yes we should say too, you all have an excellent podcast and we will make sure to put a link to that in the show notes. And on the blog post too. So you've touched on this a couple times, but I want to ask about it a little more explicitly too. You are co-founders, you are married. How do you navigate that kind of relationship?

JM: To be honest, it wasn't for me immediately obvious that like, yes, we're going to hit this moment where we're both going to work on this full time. I think as Tim said earlier, we didn't explicitly say that at the beginning even though like in your mind that would be a dream. I will say super honestly, when I was working full time doing different gigs and Tim was working on BibRave full time, I was traveling a lot and oftentimes I would feel like stress because I would call him like after the work day, the 15 minutes we get to catch up and we were talking about the BibRave, like we weren't catching up as husband and wife and that would be really frustrating. And also I would feel almost sometimes a sense of guilt, like I'm not giving as much as I should, but I only have so much time. Now I actually feel that we're both working on it full time. We have our moments where we're in work, we can then more strictly define moments where we're not. So even though we're spending so much time together, I feel like where we have a better balance and we do work really well together because we complement each other with different skills and talents and as we do that more I feel like we're hitting a good stride. So.

TM:Yeah, I was definitely like, I'm not like a super possessive person but I was more like possessive just because, so Jessica is like a crazy baller. She's super smart, she's creative as hell. Like she was doing such amazing work for other brands and I wanted her to do that for our brand. So I was always pushing her to maybe find a way and, and you know, at some point it wasn't that obvious like we didn't know if the business could sustain both of us and she like, for her to stop working for another company would mean like an income source for the family goes away. So you have to like, come to grips with that reality, but that definitely was like my big motivator. I wanted her to be putting her talents to work for this thing that we had and it was, you know, I think that the, the tension that she talked about was totally on me, but I do agree that now that we're both like in it full time, it's been a very cooperative—we spend like a ridiculous amount of time together, but we almost had to do a, an impromptu trip to Florida like last week and traveling to Florida from Oregon is a really long way and it's like just a huge pain in the ass. But we looked at it and we're like, okay, it's not that big of a deal. We're just going to be like traveling together. If it was just Jessica going or just me going, it's more of a drag, but we're like, oh, we'll just go together. That'll be cool. The trip didn't even end up happening, but when we realized it wa