Four and a half years ago, Jim Huether saw the potential behind a niche industry before it became one of the most sought-after spaces for brands to play in or companies to launch out of.

"In 2014, I remember everybody said the recovery and movement space, it's too small ... you can never create a sustainable global business in the recovery space," Huether recalled.

But, as he likes to point out, "You have to know that you're going to have naysayers, and if you have naysayers, it usually means you're doing something right."

Huether took his passion for working with small, emerging companies and figuring out how to scale them, and he applied it to Hyperice.

Hyperice, launched in 2010 specifically for high-performance athletes, produced tools and technology to speed up recovery, prevent injury, and enhance movement through the use of vibration technology, heat, ice, and compression. Today, you can find Hyperice products in gyms, studios, and everyday athletes' homes all over the world.

When Huether linked up with Hyperice, he - like Hyperice's founder Anthony Katz - believed the Hyperice product wasn't just an interesting, unique new tool. He believed it had the power to benefit athletes all around the world, professional and everyday alike. Huether was drawn to the challenge of taking a company with a lot of promise and a solid product to the next level: he wanted Hyperice to become the fastest growing company in sports.

And when Huether came on board as CEO in 2015 that became his big, hairy, audacious goal.

"When I came on, there was one product," he said. "It was a good, innovative product and there were some bright spots around the brand, but we really needed a new strategy, new goals and objectives, we needed a lot of new members to the team that were motivated and creative, and we needed to continue to evolve and build the best products in the world. We had to be relentless in creating innovative products and [we had to] challenge ourselves to continue to come up with those products."

Huether attributes a solid strategy that his entire team was on board with, an intense work ethic to strive for the best product innovations in the world, and a healthy sense of competition to achieving that goal.

His marker of success? In August 2016, Hyperice was named #96 on the Inc 500 list of fastest growing private companies in America (at 3300% growth).

For Huether, the growth of the company's culture (and not just the ping-pong table in the office, he notes, but rather a culture built on work ethic and sense of collaboration) has to remain in lock-step in order to keep growing at this trajectory and to go after those bigger, even hairier, more audacious goals for the future.

"I've learned that you have to make sure the entire team is always on the same page. You have to foster an environment within your company where people are working together collectively and not against each other. If you do that, you set up the whole organization for success."

He's doing something right and bringing in some good ju-ju for sure, because the company experienced its single greatest success yet with the launch of the Hypervolt.

"Probably our biggest success as a company was the launch of of the Hypervolt. We sold out in seven hours," Huether said. "We were sold out all over the world."

Huether alluded to the idea that the success of the Hypervolt was in large part because the world was ready for the innovation, and Hyperice is well on its way to positioning itself as a true leader in the recovery and movement space.

From serving only high-end, niche recovery tools to professional athletes to offering everyday athletes knowledge, tools and technology about how to move better, warm-up more efficiently and recover more efficiently, Huether has a new goal on the horizon.

"My biggest goal," Huether began with excitement behind his voice, "I want Hyperice to be on the list of the world's most innovative companies.

"Our vision and mission has evolved into helping everybody move more efficiently ... [and] to change the way people think about movement, mobility, warm-up, health, and wellness, and it's become really exciting."

As Huether sees it, helping individuals improve one of the most important aspects of human nature - movement - can change their entire lives for the better.

"As science evolves, if we can be that leader, providing people with tools and technology to help people achieve their goals, we can change the world and we can be one of the most innovative companies on the planet."

Hear this interview for yourself on this week’s episode. And if you like what you hear, subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts and leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts.

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Episode transcript:

JAC:Welcome to #WeGotGoals, a podcast by a aSweatLife.com. I'm Jeana Anderson Cohen; with me, I have Cindy Kuzma and Maggie Umberger.

CK: Good morning, Jeana.

MU: Good morning, Jeana.

JAC: Good morning and Maggie, you spoke with Jim from HyperIce this week.

MU: I did. I, I got to talk to Jim Huether. He's the CEO of Hyperice. Hyperice, is a movement enhancement technology company and for anyone who's never experienced a Hyperice device before, it is kind of like a foam roller, but nothing like a foam roller because it vibrates and it is not made of foam at all, but it has grown incredibly quickly in the last couple years and now that Jim is CEO, it's his job to see this company through to become one of the most innovative companies in the world is what he hopes for.

JAC: And Jim is CEO but not the founder, which is an interesting position to be in because his job is to take that company, take its innovation and its ideas and make it profitable, but he's super focused on team. Can you talk a little bit about that, Maggie?

MU: Yeah. It was a really refreshing thing for me to hear him say because he does come from a background of helping companies grow and become profitable. However, as CEO he sees it as one of his big roles to help his team see the goal and the vision together and to help everyone get on that same page to help this company become what he envisions it to be and it's already one of the fastest growing in America, but to become the most innovative in the world and is what Jim told me he envisions, but part of being growth minded for him, it's not just him seeing numbers on a page and what a title of a company looks like, but really what the entire team is helping create and build together. So it's not as much competitive as it is supportive from the inside is what I took from him.

CK: And it's interesting too just the whole industry because it has been sort of niche but recovery. I know I'm a runner and you all know from your experience in the fitness world like it's really moving from high level athletics to the rest of the world. How has, does he see Hyperice’s role in taking recovery to the masses?

MU: I think the company in general is really fascinating because I did a little research as to where it came from and we didn't end up talking about this on the podcast, but really Hyperice at first was technology meant for professional athletes and college athletes and it wasn't even the products that we use today as in the Vyper and the Sphere, which we'll talk a little bit about in the episode, but Hyperice has been a part of that journey of helping people become and think of themselves as athletes and I think that we all consider ourselves athletes now and I love that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that just because we don't play on a professional, team but if you are athletic everyday, if you do something that you sweat with every single day, your body needs to recover and the tools that Hyperice created helps athletes everyday athletes and professional alike recover and get stronger over time. So I, I think seeing that a few years ago was almost revolutionary because people didn't see it as a market or see it as a possibility and now we're all kind of getting on board with recovering like athletes make sense if we are pushing our bodies like athletes.

CK: Awesome. Yeah. It was really interesting to hear his take on this. It's a great interview. So I'm excited to share it. Here is Maggie with Jim.

MU: So I'm Maggie Umberger; I’m joined today on the #WeGotGoals podcast by Jim Huether, he’s the CEO of Hyperice, which is one of the fastest growing companies in America. So thank you so much Jim, for joining us.

JH: Thank you. Appreciate it. I'm really excited about this. So thank you.

MU: Yeah. So I just, I want to get right into it with you and I'd love to start just by hearing a little bit about your journey to becoming CEO of Hyperice, one of these incredibly fast growing and amazingly niche but exciting companies, tech companies now. Um, so what led you to this spot that you're sitting in now?

JH: Yeah. Great question. And I was always very motivated. I went back to business school once I graduated. I was working in sales and marketing for Anschutz Entertainment Group, which is a sports and entertainment company. I mean I went back actually to graduate school, this is probably about 15 years ago, maybe 13 years ago and became really inspired around small and emerging companies and how they scale and I think there are Harvard Business Reviews that we did in school, way back that were really exciting to me. I really enjoyed looking at different companies and figuring out the mistakes they've made or the successes that they had and why those successes or mistakes happen. So I became really inspired early on in the kind of entrepreneurial route and trying to, you know, work with businesses and work with challenging companies and learn how to grow and create opportunities with those. So I'd worked with a couple of startup companies in the concussion space, which is a really kind of a big and emerging field from 2005 and still, I mean it's very topical, people are looking at new innovative ways to create football helmet technology, baseball helmet technology to mitigate concussion.

JH: So I worked for a couple companies early on trying to kind of evolve that space and create tools and technology to advance that space and, and really enjoyed it, but started to hear a lot of information from athletes and influencers about how big recovery, health and wellness was becoming in the space. So I got really inspired around the recovery space and actually was mutually introduced to the founder of Hyperice about four and a half years ago. We had very similar visions on where we could take Hyperice. At the time the was company was struggling a little bit and needed some, a little bit more leadership and strategy. But there were some really great bright spots so we were able to join forces in 2014 and you know, really kind of turn the tide of this company and turn it into one of the fastest growing companies in sports, which has been a phenomenal journey.

MU: Incredible. And I think it's in sports and it's in everyday athletes’ lives now and for people who might not know Hyperice, it's a global recovery and movement enhancement technology company. So you're creating products for people to feel better and do whatever they're doing, whatever sport that is better and more effectively. And so growing from working with athletes because Hyperice traditionally or originally was more geared towards high performing professional and college athletes. Right?

JH: Yup.

MU: And so you've kind of grown to work for the everyday athlete. Is that been part of your journey?

JH: Exactly. You hit it spot on. So it's very interesting. One of the goals that I had when I joined Hyperice in 14 and was, you know, I wanted this company to be the fastest growing company in sports and at the time, not to get too into the business side, but the company was losing a lot of money and it just needed to, needed a new trajectory and new strategy, new people, new leadership, all those things that organizations sometimes can shift and grow, so we really focused on being the fastest growing company in sports and we spent a lot of time and energy working with athletes, working in sports performance professionals, working with forward thinking facilities to kind of create that premium awareness in the space. What we've found since then and we did, we did accomplish that goal. We were listed on the Inc 500, two years ago, number 96 fastest growing companies in the U.S., private companies in the U.S. and I believe on that list we were one of three of the fastest growing companies in sports on that list, but what we've found recently is this space as much larger than that. We're now, you know, our vision and mission has really evolved into helping everybody move more efficiently, helping everybody recover more efficiently, which is really exciting because there's so many channels and areas of growth that we can focus on really to change the way people think about movement, mobility, warmup, health and wellness, and it's become really exciting.

MU: Has it shifted the way that you think about recovery personally?

JH: It has. It really has, you know, and I think for me I'm more excited about opportunities that I never even knew existed when I joined in 2014, for example, massage therapy and physical therapy and corporate wellness, military, those are all channels that really need health wellness improvements. They need new tools and technology and innovations in recovery and movement to help them perform better, whether that be in a workplace or on the battlegrounds. Those are all really important and imperative things and if we can improve performance and we can improve health and wellness in those channels, we can have a drastic effect on the world and how people view health and wellness, which, which is also something that we're really striving towards.

MU: I think that's a, it's a really interesting point that it's a trend that recovery has started to seep into everyone's, I guess, forefront of our minds when it comes to, and finally, when it comes to thinking about working out, seeing the other side of it, because I think that we've begun to round the bend of going from hardcore workout, just kill yourself at every single workout, no matter what kind of athlete you are to now seeing how the other side is the most important, if you're going to be able to return to the gym to do what you do every day.

JH: Definitely.

MU: So, so going back to, to you personally or or within Hyperice, the main question of this podcast is what is a big goal that you've accomplished and how did you get there? So for you, Jim, what? What is that?

JH: Yeah, and I think one of those goals, I mean it really was the fastest growing company in sports goal when I joined was something that I thought we could accomplish. When I came on, there was one product and it was a, it was an innovative product and a great product. And there were some good bright spots around the brand, but we really needed a new strategy. We need new goals and objectives. We needed a, a lot of new members to the team that were motivated and creative and we needed to continue to evolve and build the best products in the world, right? We had to be relentless in creating innovative products and challenge ourselves to continue to come up with those products and not rest on our laurels with one or two products. Right? And then we need to work hard. So I think those all were equal contributors.

JH: But you know, the first one, setting a strategy that is just so important. You're, the basis of your strategy and you can adapt your strategy, really can be the foundation of your success, knowing, okay, maybe we're doing things we don't want to do things how they've been done in the past, right? We don't just follow what other people have done. We have to look at new innovative ways as time goes on and there's more advancements and tools and technologies to create a model and a structure that works for us and works for our type of business, so we did something completely outside the box in that regards and to to accomplish those goals you have to have the right people. So that was another piece that was incredibly important. Finding a team of people that were highly motivated, had great work ethic and even if they didn't have a lot of experience, which a lot of our employees did not when they, when they joined Hyperice, finding the right people that would want to grow and learn with the organization and that would like to be challenged. So we could accomplish all those strategies and goals that we had put together. So it really, you know, those kind of four things, strategy, team, obviously focusing on building the best products in the world, and then having that work ethic and sense of competition and teamwork within the organization, but trying to put ourselves in a position where we could be the leading company in the space, contributed towards, you know, gaining that notoriety on the inc 500 list and being one of the fastest growing companies in sports.

MU: And it's, that's a huge title now, to be one of the fastest growing companies in, in sports and so I'm sure that the innovation that you are pushing for it isn't going to stop, right? So and case in point, the Hypervolt which you just launched, can you talk to me a little bit about that recent launch for the company?

JH: Yeah, absolutely. So the Hypervolt is a vibration massage device, it has multiple speeds, you have variable levels of treatment. Can be used either by a practitioner or just self use. Been an incredible success really to help with range of motion, circulation, targeted myofascial release, um really an amazing product that we spent actually three years innovating. So we started this project at the end of actually the beginning of 2015 and about exactly three years later we're able to launch it. One of our, probably our biggest success as a company was the launch of the Hypervolt. We actually sold out in seven hours and oh my God, yeah, had to order a ton of product. We were sold out all over the world too, which was amazing. Companies like Japan, China, Korea, Hong Kong, Canada, sold out all over the world, ordered more product and got on the line with our manufacturers. We have to speed up production, sold out of our first batch of product in 16 days.

JH: So it's been really fun and I think it's, it's been the perfect storm for us with this product launch because the product is amazing, really is, and you know that that goes to the team and our technology team really focusing and our engineering team, making sure it was the best product possible. Um, but really you have an amazing product with an evolving brand. Our team here has done a lot of work creating great relationships and creating a brand around leadership in, in recovery and movement. And then the market was really excited and ready for a product like this, a portable device that was technologically oriented that you could use in a clinic or at your home and the relationships that we had as a company were evolved. So I think all four of those things came together and created this perfect storm. And the buzz and awareness worldwide was beyond what we had forecasted that it was really incredible to see.

MU: So I'm thinking about how when you're innovative, when you are this forward thinking there's got to be a little bit of lag time to get people on board. Would you say that there are, or what are some of the barriers that you've experienced since you've been onboard with Hyperice too? To get people to see things from your more forward thinking perspective on recovery?

JH: I think we've been able to foster a culture here where we encourage every member on the team to think outside the box. I know that sounds cliche sometime, but, but we really mean it. We really encourage our team members to throw ideas out there, throw ideas that may be way too far in the future, but crazy concepts that we can consider and keeping in our mind and any idea could come to life in this company. There's been times where people in accounting or people that had nothing to do with the sales or product or marketing teams have came up with a great idea that we've put into effect immediately and that's one of the benefits of being a small, hard working team. We're adaptable and we’re nimble, so I think, you know, really creating the foundation of a culture within the organization that people feel like they can always contribute new ideas has really helped.

JH: And a great example of this is our engineer or our VP of Product and Engineering. We had him joined one of our marketing and sales meetings about let's say three months ago and we were talking about ways to show and demonstrate vibration and he came up with an idea. He said, hey, why don't we use this thermal imaging technology on some new technology where you take a video of a human and as the product is going over the body, it shows the temperature changes in your body. So very technical looks really cool. And we ended up trying it, it was very visually stunning and it became the lead in our marketing campaign, but that was somebody who had zero marketing experience and was more of a product development expert. So you know, those types of things only happen when the culture is right and people feel as if they can collaborate and share their ideas. So that's something that we've really worked on within this company.

MU: That's fantastic. I love that. I mean it's, it's the idea that. What is the saying about rising boats lift? Oh no, I'm going to mess it up. A rising tide lifts all boats, but just that everyone can bring something to the table. So for you, I'm really interested to ask you more about where your passion lies of kind of solving problems and putting puzzle pieces together to help this company grow in a way that is sustainable and that you can think on the cutting edge of technology and then bring that to the world. Like how do you stay fresh for yourself and to see problems as exciting versus as daunting because that can get to be the case for big companies?

JH: I'm really inspired, you know, with business growth and sometimes it seems strange like when I tell people this, but to me I played a little bit of baseball back in the day and there's that competitive edge that you have in that sense of competition to overcome challenges and adversity and I think that was kind of ingrained in my DNA and I kind of took some of the things I learned there, some of the successes and failures I had there into the business world and I really enjoy it. I really enjoy finding challenges and creating strategies to overcome them and trying new things that may not work or have never been done before and seeing if they work and if they don’t, adapting them. When it goes back to what I mentioned about business school and it was really those Harvard Business Reviews that we did in my MBA school that really inspired me to look at different companies and, and find new ways to, to spin or find new ways to adapt and create new opportunities to create your own business model.

JH: So that's been really exciting for me and it's been something that, you know, I kind of get inspired by the challenge. When I joined Hyperice again, it was a, there were some great spots. The founder is very brand oriented, creative and we work very well together. There were just, there was some issues with the strategy and some issues with things within the organization that we had to fix and it took us about two to three years to go from losing millions to making millions and it was a long, hard road. But we built the company the right way and because of that, it's one of the reasons we're having so much success now is we built a great foundation. We are flexible, we're able to adapt, we are creative and those types of things. As any small emerging company, you have to have confidence in what you're doing, you really do.

JH: And you have to know that you're going to have naysayers and if you have naysayers, it’s, it usually means you're doing something right. I remember in 2014 everybody said, Oh, the recovery and movement space, it's too small. You know, it's never going to be, you can never create a sustainable global business in the recovery space. That's just not going to happen. Well, no one thought an online bookstore could do $178 billion and no one thought, you know, an executive at Paypal could, could send an electric car into space on a rocket. So I think, you know, having confidence in what you're doing and staying true to the vision is really important.

MU: Yeah. Yeah. And being okay with kind of stepping into a place that doesn't have all the steps laid out for you. It seems like a place where you really thrive.

JH: I agree. Yeah. It really is. Trying to find areas and things that have never been done before and not being afraid to fail. And if you fail a little bit and a project or, or a strategy doesn't work, then you learn from it and you try something else and you go after it, you know wholeheartedly and give your best in one of those items will work.

MU: Do you have an example that you kind of go back to as a learning moment for you that kind of gave you that confidence to pivot and to get excited about challenges versus getting worn down by them?

JH: In one of my previous companies, which you know I was an executive and I was on the management team in a leadership position, but I was not the chief executive officer. I learned that you have to really make sure that the entire team is always on the same page and you really have to foster an environment within your company where people are working together collectively and not against each other and I think if you do that, you know, you end up setting the whole organization up for success and you know, something we've done here with our team who are all very highly motivated. We have a lot of just unbelievable team members here that are young, hungry, motivated, work hard, maybe don't have a lot of experience, but everybody's incentivized for team goals. Everybody's working towards the same goals and achievements. So that competition we create is actually competition not within the organization. It's external, right? Everybody here, there's no competition amongst each other and I think that gets more minds and more creativity within the organization. So that piece of it I think is, has been really important and I've learned that from the past where I've seen organizations that, you know, maybe pit people against each other or don't have everybody bought in to the same mission and vision that can kind of tear apart a company culture and tear apart the direction of the company. So I did. I think I learned that in some experiences in the past.

MU: Glad to hear you say that I think because in my mind that makes total sense that it doesn't matter what your goals, visionary, you know, dreams for a company are, it's the people within the company that are going to be together in getting you there. So it has to come back to who is in the office every single day making the machine run.

JH: Exactly. Exactly.

MU: So going forward, our next big question for this podcast is, what is a big goal that you have on your horizons is whether it's right now in the future or down the line in the future? And how do you plan on getting there?

JH: Ah, OK. So I would say that my biggest goal, something that I really want to achieve, I want Hyperice to be on the list of the world's most innovative companies and you know, that list, FastCompany has a list, I believe; Fortune also has a list. But being able to achieve that would be, would be amazing and I think it's possible. It may take us a couple years, but really you know, to be on that list for me would mean that, you know, we not only had an amazing product, an amazing set of products, but we had an amazing strategy. We had an amazing team for us to be able to position ourselves that way and scale globally and I think that would be an amazing accomplishment. That is doable. Because when you look at this space, how important is health and wellness? I mean it's one of the most important aspects of human nature, so to speak.

JH: So if we can help people move more efficiently, if we can help people recover more efficiently, if we can help people perform, whether it be at the workplace or on a football field, whatever it may be, you know, we can change people's lives for the better and if we continue to advance that as science evolves and people learn more about the human body and they learn more about health and wellness, if we can be that leader providing tools and technology to help people achieve their goals within health and wellness, I mean we can change the world and we can be one of the most innovative companies on the planet. So that's something that we're really, really striving to do. And me personally, when that day happens, I'll be pretty pumped up.

MU: Oh man, OK, I want to throw a curve ball question at you, but if you don't, if you don't have an answer, that's absolutely fine, but do you have a story of someone who has used like the Sphere or the Vyper or maybe it's the Hypervolt now, it's just this incredible recovery or like athletic story, more like everyday athlete story that is just like, wow, we are changing the world based on this one person's story. You know, there's gotta be more than more of those out there.

JH: I would say it was really, really great to hear that both Steph Curry and Lebron James took our, our Vyper product with them basically to practice on the plane to the location like they actually had their own personal unit that they took for mobility and warm up. That was pretty cool to hear. We had am athlete in Japan, very famous pitcher who actually played for the Red Sox here and then also played in Japan, who basically said that it completely enhanced his rage of motion and fixed a shoulder surgery that he had, so the vibration therapy used in the HyperSphere helped him recover. When you had seen multiple physicians and could not get his shoulder right, so that was a really awesome story. We have members of the US military, write us all the time and say that they have more energy and you know they're able to move more efficiently in that space, which feels really good that we're doing something for our soldiers, so that's been amazing. We have just the general fitness enthusiasts. We had one the other day who said that his back had been locked up for months and he was using the Vyper on his lower back and it freed him up and he was able to move more efficiently than he had in 10 years. That was incredible. These are all stories we share within our team just to get people more and more inspired and motivated about what we're doing. Yeah, I think those would be three that to me are pretty cool.

MU: I love that. It’s true though. I think people don't expect it when when they try it out the first time and they're like, oh my gosh, what is this? And then they kind of like get used to it and now I have people in my classes all the time saying like, can you bring that to class next time? So it's like kind of addicting, which is really fun. So is there anything else I didn't ask you, goal wise, things that you guys as a team or just you yourself are going after? Personally?

JH: I would say I think you covered a lot. I mean I think that it's exciting to be able to have a company that is very successful on the business side that aligns with something that you're personally passionate about. And I think that's very rare, but I think for all entrepreneurs or executives or just you know, people in the workforce, it's easier to be very passionate about something that you enjoy every day.

JH: Like Sunday nights come and I'm ready to go, I'm ready to be in Monday morning. I'm chomping at the bit to get after it Monday morning. And that's because I was able to choose kind of a space in the area of business that I really liked. But I think it's rewarding to be in a company that we worked really hard to make sure that financially it was secure and thriving, but is also having this dramatic effect on the world as it relates to health and wellness. Both of those things to me are really inspiring and I hope that we can kind of inspire others to find different areas of business that you're passionate about and go after those and commit your energy to it. Because when you do that, good things generally happen.

MU: So that is the perfect segue to one last final question that that's on my mind. It's that when you have an idea, if you have a, a nugget of, an idea that you're passionate about, but you're not really sure. Like say you are that visionary type that doesn't necessarily know how to get from A to B to Z in the growth minded perspective that you have. Do you have a piece of advice to share with someone who's at that stage of just vision?

JH: Yeah, I definitely do. I think everybody should—you know, ideas. There's a big difference between coming up with an idea and making it a reality, right? And there's a, there's a big difference between coming up with a great concept and then building a, you know, a strong business around it and sometimes people with great ideas who are very innovative and forward thinking can execute great ideas and maybe they need a partner to take that idea or that product or whatever it may be or a concept and bring it to reality and that's okay, right? There's strength and weaknesses out there and sometimes partnerships can be very effective if people are, are aligned on the vision and the mission and they kind of see the same end game. So you know, so I always tell young entrepreneurs like go after it, like definitely go after it, but create a strategy first, right?

JH: Make sure you have a plan and if you need to find great partners who may be strong in areas that can compliment what you're doing and make it more of a reality, then go, there is nothing wrong with that. You know, find a great team. Like this company. Hyperice would not be nearly what we are without the great team that we have, right? And that's been one of the things that, that, uh, I'm maybe most proud of is that we were able to instill a culture and a culture is more than having a ping pong table or a coffee machine in the office. It's really about that work ethic and collaboration and you know, people being challenged daily so that they aspire and grow. So to answer your question more succinctly, I would say that you can find a partner in something, somebody that you can kind of bounce ideas off that helps a lot of young entrepreneurs who maybe are not sure whether or not to dive into something or not.

MU: That's amazing. Thank you so much for joining me and for sharing your story. I can't wait to see Hyperice on the world's most innovative companies list. {robably sooner than we all think.

JH: I hope so, I hope so. We’re—It won't be from lack of effort if we don't make it. That's for sure.

MU: Well, thank you very much, again, Jim it was an awesome pleasure to speak with you.

JH: Likewise. Thank you for having me on. Keep up the great work. Really appreciate it.

CK: This podcast is produced by me, Cindy Kuzma, and it's another thing that's better with friends. So please, share it with yours. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and if you could please leave us a rating or review on apple podcasts, we will be so grateful. Special thanks to J. Mano for our theme music; to our guest this week, Jim Huether; and to TechNexus for the recording studio.