(This episode has some explicit language)

Peter Rahal, co-founder and CEO of RXBAR, didn’t set out to build a multi-million-dollar company.

But he had goals, both large and small. Practically speaking, he wanted a clean, healthy protein bar to fuel his workouts. On a bigger scale, he sought freedom and fulfillment.

“Prior to working at RXBAR, I'd always had a normal job. I felt really handcuffed and I wasn't in a position to be successful,” Rahal told me on this week’s episode of #WeGotGoals. “And so a goal for me early on was always to really flourish and have freedom and achieve success for myself.”

Those dual quests took him and co-founder Jared Smith farther than they could have imagined. In 2012, they began pressing dates, almonds, and egg whites into bars in Rahal’s parents’ basement.

From the beginning, they established high standards and lofty values. The product had to be excellent. The process, collaborative. And even as they glimpsed glimmers of progress, they stayed humble, knowing they didn’t have all the answers.

Those years weren’t easy. In fact, the pair suffered. “It was miserable,” he says, “pressing bars with your thumbs in your parents’ basement when you’re 26 and while your friends are doing great things and having dinner in the city.”

But Rahal likens the experience to a grueling fitness routine. “The hardest workouts are where you stimulate the most growth from,” he says. “And work is the same thing. The most discomfort you have, the harder it is, the more you grow.”

And grow they did. Rahal remembers telling Smith early on that if they did things right, this could be a $10 million business. Last year, Kellogg bought RXBAR—which now sells 120 million bars per year—for $600 million.

Rahal and Smith stayed on to lead what is now a standalone unit in the larger company, a critical component of the deal, he says. “We were looking for the right muscle, and to protect our people and our culture. So those are kind of two objectives or goals that we were looking for in a partner. Kellogg fit that perfectly and now we have resources to continue to achieve our business objectives.”

Armed with Kellogg’s expertise in areas like international distribution, contract negotiation, and performance management, RXBAR will continue its ambitious quest to transform the way food is made and delivered.

That starts with shifting the corporate approach, Rahal says. Even big companies can innovate and relentlessly drive to improve. Employees who are valued and respected can truly achieve their potential. Systems codify these values, ensuring businesses continue to serve the right people in the right way.

For those of us not in the food industry, who just buy bars at the store or the gym—we’ll see the results on the shelves: “More access to food that’s better for you, that's delicious, that saves you time and that you can trust,” he says. And of course, as the RXBAR package famously proclaims, “No B.S.”

And is Rahal now free? Well, yes and no, he says—in fact, he’s not quite sure of the answer. What he does know is that he’s found a deeper satisfaction and a whole new set of priorities, ones he feels he can pursue to truly leave a legacy.

Listen to this week’s episode to hear more about what freedom means to Rahal, the reason his partnership with Smith works, and a little bit—but not TOO much—about what it takes to get hired as part of the RXBAR team.

If you like what you hear, subscribe where ever you get your podcasts and leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts.

And if this post or anything else we’ve created impacted your life, please support our Kickstarter.

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Transcript:

JAC: Hey, goal getters, it's Jeana Anderson Cohen from aSweatlife.com, and if you've been listening to #WeGotGoals over the last month, you know that we've been running our Kickstarter. And right now we have just five days to fund our big dream for $20,000 to help grow our ambassadorship to reach women across the country. We’re helping them set big, hairy audacious goals and form a network to achieve them. If you want to help out, check the link in our show notes or go to aSweatLife.com. Here's the episode.

JAC: Welcome to #WeGot Goals, a podcast by aSweatlife.com on which we talk to high achievers about their goals. I'm Jeana Anderson Cohen; with me, I have Cindy Kuzma and Kristen Geil.

CK: Good morning, Jeana.

KG: Hi Jeana.

JAC. Hi Ladies. So Cindy, this week you talk to Peter from RXBAR.

CK: I did. I spoke with Peter Rahal. He is the co-founder and CEO of RXBAR and he is a very focused, intense, high achieving person and it was great to kind of crack his code just a little bit.

JAC: One of the things that I found super interesting was sort of the driving force behind his goals: freedom. Can you talk to me a little bit about how freedom has shaped what he's done through his life and where it's taken him?

CK: Yes. He started RXBAR, not necessarily because he wanted to be an entrepreneur, but because he saw a problem that needed to be solved and also because he felt trapped in a job he didn't love, under leadership he didn't respect and he just really wanted to break free. What was interesting, and you'll hear this toward the end of the interview, was kind of how that has played out for him. He doesn't necessarily feel free, but he maybe has a little bit of a new definition of freedom or a new thing that he's seeking in its place. So a pretty interesting to hear how that all unfolded.

KG On the podcast recently we did a live recording with Julia and Lauren who are the co-founders of Stylisted. You spoke with Peter about his co-founder. Jared. One of the things I was interested to hear about was how these two different co-founders might approach goal setting similarly or differently. For example, Julia and Lauren spoke about the importance of having the same long-term vision and goals for the company, but at the same time celebrating the little wins and the small goals that you achieve along the way. Did Peter talk about how he and Jared have any approaches to setting goals as partners and working towards them together?

CK: Yeah, so like Julia and Laura and Peter and Jared were friends first and Peter talks about how important it is to have that rapport with someone that you're starting a business with. That way you can kind of tell early on when something is amiss and you can take steps to work it out before it becomes an actual problem. He said they've also worked hard not to fight about things like titles or things that were insignificant. They kind of set their egos aside and really focused on what they thought was best for the business and yeah, in terms of setting goals for the business, it's interesting. They didn't really have specific goals in terms of the money that they wanted to make or units sold or anything like that. They really just looked at making the best product that they could to fill this hole in the market and then when they got to a bigger place, finding the best people to help support them in those goals. That's really what carried them to a level of success beyond what they even could have imagined.

JAC: Well, I've certainly loved watching the story of RXBAR unfold and especially with this acquisition by Kellogg recently, so excited to hear this interview. So here is Cindy with Peter.

CK: This is Cindy Kuzma and I'm here with Peter who is the CEO and the co-founder of RXBAR. Peter, thank you so much for joining us here today on the #WeGotGoals podcast.

PR: Thank you, Cindy. I appreciate you coming to our office.

CK: It's great to be here and great to see so many people working hard. I'm wondering, Peter, I want to ask about your goals, but I'd first love to hear a little bit about what your day to day is like here at RXBAR.

PR: So my day to day first, I'm not like a routine person. I like to think of myself as highly adaptable and I always start each week with like what's the most important thing I need to accomplish. I'm really motivated by accomplishment, so like what I need to, what do I need to get done this week? So I really think about my year through weeks, everything's through weeks and I accomplish as much as possible in each week. So that's like the first half of the week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is very structured in terms of like what am I looking at, what's important, regular information. And then Thursday, Friday is typically like, I like think of the Wild West where I tried to leave it open and react to and be able to get some work done.

CK: I like that. It sounds like you have a nice blend of a very loose structure that you work within that helps you stay somewhat organized, but then you really leave room for creativity and inspiration and doing the work.

PR: I think I’m very unorganized, but yet organized if that like there's a paradox or I don't know what the right word is, but …

CK: Well, it seems to be working for you. You've accomplished some pretty big things in the past five years or so. Our big question on #WeGotGoals always is what is one big goal that you've accomplished that you're particularly proud of, why was it so meaningful to you and how did you get there?

PR: So goals, I guess, goal I had early on in my life, I guess career. I've always wanted freedom. I guess the outcome I wanted was always to be successful and I really wanted to be free. Not freedom in the sense of do whatever I want, but like to be able to make decisions and grow. They have kind of kind of control of my own fate. And so prior to working at RXBAR, I'd always had a normal job and whatnot and I felt really handcuffed and I wasn't in a position to be successful. And so a goal for me early on was always to like really flourish and have freedom and achieve success for myself and I guess I didn't know what that looked like. So it was really just discovering that in my early twenties and then I guess I found it with creating, creating the company with Jared, my co-founder.

CK: So you didn't really know what freedom would look like. I mean, how did you sort of take the steps to uncover that?

PR: I guess early on, early on in my life, I've always rejected poor leadership and I mis-associated with authority. Like I've always like, oh, I don't like authority, but actually I just didn't like, I shunned bad leadership and I never really had great leadership in my work experience. So that's where I felt like it didn't have freedom, right? Like I needed freedom to think, to grow, to challenge, to do. So creative freedom, work freedom, not go do whatever you want type of thing, but like to be challenged to think differently, you know, to define your own path.

CK: So that's a really interesting insight. That freedom maybe was freedom, not from any leadership at freedom from poor leadership.

PR: Yeah, for sure. Good leadership allows that, allows an individual to flourish and grow. I never had that, so I was yearning that ability and I didn't realize that until I started working here and moved into like a leadership position that like that's what I was really seeking and yearning early on.

CK: So, I mean, you have grown in the company and by leaps and bounds in the past five years and when you were started making the bars in your parents basement, right? And now you're part of a huge national company and you're selling a 120 million plus bars a year. Are those goals that you could have even foreseen back when you first started out?

PR: No, absolutely not. So I mean those were like outcomes we never planned. Jared and I were never like, oh, we're gonna build the business to sell it or like having an outcome like that or whatever achieve that. We were, our goal was to make the best product possible, our goal was to make the best company possible. And those were some of our how our approach was and those are really like our strategies and what happened is that great company, those great products, the financial financial performance and those things were really all outcomes of that. So no, and to be honest, I remember sitting back with Jared like really early on and being like, you know, if we do this right, this is a $10 million business and you know, I'd be lying to you if I said how we had planned all this out. We got lucky and we've, we've, we had the right values guiding us and we did what was important.

CK: So talk to me about some of those values. What do you think were the important step are the important values that took you from a to b to Z.

PR: That's a good question. So I guess the values that were most where I would say like humility, both we like to think of as emotionally and intellectually like, right. We didn't have all the answers. We knew we didn't have all the answers. We stayed curious. We asked for help. And then for Hared and I are working together as co-founders, we never fought over titles, we never fought over responsibility. We did what was in the best interest of the company early on. So that requires a lot of, you know, you have to free yourself of your pride and arrogance. So that was really important early on you see a lot of people fighting over this and that. And like I always say, like if Jared and I were building a house, we never fought over the color of the house, you know what I mean? It was just like we went. So humility is number one and it's both emotionally and intellectually.

PR: And then second is excellence. Just like constant improvement and entrepreneurial, like a real entrepreneurial mindset and growth mindset of like, this can get better. We've got to figure it out because you think about a company, all it is, is a group of people that are formed in teams that have to make decisions and those decisions usually are around problems, right? Or opportunity or problem, whatever way you want to look at it. And so doing that really, really well is important, people decisions and problems. So that, um, and then other one is like tenacity too, I don't know if that's an actual value, just grit, but like it was miserable like pressing bars with your thumbs in your parents basement when you're 26 and while your friends are doing great things and having dinner in the city, whatever it is. You can't, you know, it takes a lot of grit. And there wasn't like, you know, you look at the company today and it's like, ‘Oh, it's great. You guys are successful.’ It wasn't like that a while ago and it was actually quite miserable and Jared and I  actually suffered a lot in a good way. I think suffering is good, but so you have to prepared to suffer in a good way.

CK: Knowing that you sort of had this idea that maybe you hadn't experienced good leadership before. Did you have other examples of leaders that you've found along the way who kind of helped shape this as you went along?

PR: Not necessarily like I'm never had great, I never really experienced great leadership. I've experienced great parenting. I have amazing parents and that is a form of leadership I'd argue, but I know I never, I never had it. When I played sports I had a coach that like was involved in practice run with us. Like was a great leader and I mean it was amazing how it worked, but I know I never had anyone, like oh, that's what great leadership looks like. I didn't realize what it was until like in action here in this company. Like I realized how important it was. So. No, but I know, I know, I yearned it. I yearned it. I never necessarily had it I would say and I didn't know what it looked like either.

CK: What's an example of kind of what it looks like now on a day to day basis here and how do you, how do you kind of know that you're here exemplifying it?

PR: So I, I think presence is super important. So being available, being around flying in and solving problems, you know what I mean? Like if there's an issue going in and helping fix it. Um, so like, can I call it, like I think of it as like reactionary, reactionary leadership support is super important so you're there and you react to the problem and go down to help fix it. And then also being super proactive in terms of breaking down potential barriers. So you're being there, you're having the vision to help break down a potential problem so it doesn't happen. So that, that's great leadership.

PR: Yeah, I mean that, I mean for us, the way we lay out the way we meet, I mean we've systemized that really through our structures. So example, if like a service call comes in and there's an issue like in I can tell, I can hear the, someone struggling with a customer, I can go in and like pick it up and help. Like that's great leadership. Presence is important, is really important. Being consistent, you know what I mean? Like not coming in moody, not, not really self regulating yourself is important. So how you show up consistently articulating the vision and where we're going and why we're going. We're making value-based decisions so being consistent with decision making, not just like arbitrarily, right? So those are all things that are important and being approachable, you know, and also there's another like knowing the business too, like I think there's a level, like a lot of times you hear EQ and like these softer skills are really important and they are absolutely empathy, understanding the business and just everyone's position and situation, but actually like having knowledge and actually experiencing and be able to like tactically help out. I think it's really important and having knowledge of the business uh, is important because imagine if someone came in from here to be a leader here but like didn't know shit about the food business, you know, it'd be hard for them to have credibility. And that's the advantage I have as a founder. Like shit I've came from the beginning, I have this knowledge from experience, like it's really helpful for people. So I think that's important too.

CK:  I'd imagine that gets challenging to stay on top of as you grow, and I mean how many people work here now?

PR:  I think a hundred 10?

CK: How do you kind of keep tabs on that and keep in—it sounds like some of just jumping in and solving the problems and keeps you connected to the front line. Right. What else?

PR: Well, that’s, I mean, we’re 110. So I've, I've read a lot and like I know we're on the inflection point where like, I know everyone's name, right? And now we're going to be like 140, 150, 200. At some point that's not scalable, right? Like we exceed every, every individual's capacity to know everyone's name and who they are and how they work, etc. So here it right now sub 120, whatever, it’s easy. I know everyone's name, I know how they work, I know their personality type, I know.

PR: But in a year that's going to be totally different. So I, I'm actually, I don't know the answer, but uh, you know, for me it's not necessarily about me knowing it's really about our leadership here in the different teams and the groups of teams and how they work and what is the leadership look like on those teams. So scaling, like what we do in systemizing it so it permeates the whole organization.

CK: So as you've grown, how important would you say that the type of people that you've hired has been to your ongoing success?

PR: We have the best. The amount of people we’ve accumulated is unbelievable. So I say like where like one of the companies we're in, the people business, the company's responsibility to, to ensure every individual’s achieving their goal and flourishing. So that's probably the most important thing we do is hire people; I’ve said that. We have a good process and a lot of our success actually all of our success is due to the fact that we've been able to build an awesome team.

PR: So we at the highest level, like I said, we're a group of people who make decisions and solve problems. Like we are in the people business, the highest level. At the end of the day one of the things we do is make a bar and we make food and we do other things. Um, but that Is what business we're actually in. Ao it's the most important thing. Any business that involves people.

CK: What would you say is kind of different about your process or superior about your process for finding these people.

PR: We have a very, we have a culture that people were, where the company is aligned on. We’ve defined the competencies that are great with individuals. The question is like, what competencies do individuals possess that make them successful and flourish? So we asked that question and we've really laid it out there and we, you know, we look through those in candidates and also like it's important I think, I don't know other companies like this is the biggest company I've ever worked for. So I don't know what it looks like in other places, but you know, everyone, you know, It's not like P&O or HR does the hiring. It's, it's a very cross-functional process. Our goal is to hire the best people and make sure they're, they're in a position to be successful. And then we put a, a soft process around it.

CK: So any tips on what those competencies are for people who might be looking?

PR: something that's. I don't want to like you, you have a lot of people listen to this and I don't want to tip our hands.

CK: You don't have to give out trade secrets. That's ok.

PR: Yeah. Just know that like we want our job is to make sure anyone who has it sits here and is a part of the team is in a position to flourish and achieve what they want to achieve and that's what we look for and that's the most important thing. There is no, lIke if that's not there, then it—you're just going to leave. You know what I mean? So it's actually a, it's a very mutual process. We're not just doing this for us, it's actually like in the interest of the candidate. You know what I mean?

CK: That's always, I think as it, you know, when you're a job seeker, that's a really nice feeling have when you enter into an interview and feel like it is a mutual search.

PR: To be ultimately successful. I believe it has to be. But at the same time, if there's an individual doesn't know what they want to achieve, that's ok, that's the right answer. They don't have the goal, right, like what their career goal is. It's ok, we can, as long as you have the right mindset and approach, you can discover it and that's our job then for you, to discover your passions and what are you good at. So that's a lot of times younger candidates don't know what the hell they want, which is totally normal. You know what I mean? I don't think anyone coming out of school is like, oh I want to be this. They just want to join a great team and great company and really learn and grow.

CK: What has this process been like with a partner?

PR: Kellogg?

CK: Well, I mean, even to start—starting the company with Jared. How do you two balance each other out?

PR: It's been, It's been good. So I always think of like Jared and I are like totally different birds. You know what I mean? Like, so that helps. Like we're—one of our values is collaboration and that's like we not I, right? And not seeking credit. So our relationship is like super collaborative. If you look up any personality test we’re literally the opposite ends and he has more of a financial background and he values stability where I'm more commercial facing and value action. So we're like total yin and yang. So like in the beginning when we first started, I'm remember like, we've been incorporating a company, this is a long time ago. And we're going over like, what is your role? What's our role? You know what I mean? Sometimes it's an uncomfortable conversation.

PR: It was like, ok, well you should be the CEO and I should be the CFO. And like that was from the get go really easy. So the role and responsibilities is very natural for us. So It's been amazing. And we wouldn't be here today If we didn't have that balance. For example, when a task, when it was just us and when a task came through, it was very obvious who did what. So yeah, it's been everything in, you know, I don't know what other co-founder relationships are like, but I imagine if you get to like people with the same, two types of birds that are the same, there's holes In the business and things fall through the crack. Where for us it was, we move faster. We didn't fight. I don't think we had one fight.

CK: That’s pretty amazing.

PR: I mean we've had disagreements but not like an actual like fight. Conflict is normal but not like bad conflict or like ugly conflict.

CK: Can you pinpoint any ways that communicated effectively that have prevented that. Or is it just the personality?

PR: The advantages that Jared and I have—is when you hire a, like when you work with friends, like you see this a lot with businesses early on, like where they’re, like friends starting it together, you know what I mean? And the reason why is because we have rapport. I've known him since first grade. He's known me since first grade. He knows when I'm pissed. I know when he's upset. So it actually causes us, the rapport and history we have together causes that causes us address things earlier rather than them just boiling or whatever. Like, I didn’t know you were pissed, I couldn't tell like, well no I can actually, I can smell, I can smell when he's pissed off or upset or disappointed.

PR: He can smell when I’m—you know what I mean? It's more than. It's like this feeling, this intuition and instincts that you have just because you have rapport with is another human for so long. So that's a huge advantage we've had. And that's why you see like early businesses like you think about, it's all friends usually starting it because you can't be like, hey, want to. Like you can't go to the market place and be like, hey, you want to start this business with me? I don't know you. You want to start this? I don't fucking trust you. I trust Jared, he trusts me. We’re aligned. And you think about the values of our company really stem from our relationship because those are the two people that are at the two inputs that effect how we work here early on. It's shaped it in a totally different way because you know, the next new people come shapes it in a good way. Right?

CK: That's another huge phase that you're in now. So how—you're set up as kind of as a company within Kellogg, is that right?

PR: Yeah. So like a standalone business, a different business unit in a way.

CK: Was that kind of an important goal to you when pursuing this kind of a deal?

PR: Yeah, for sure it was table-stakes. Because people use the word exit—like we never actually exited, you know what I mean? As shareholders, we show sold their shares. But um, so for us we were looking for the right, the right muscle, and to protect our people and our culture. So those are kind of two objectives or goals that we were looking for in a partner. And Kellogg fit that perfectly and now we have resources to continue to achieve our business objectives and, and flourish as a company.

CK: So the resources is obviously that's a, that's a big change. I mean, what else has changed so far? What else do you predict will change?

PR: So change. As a company, we’ve changed a lot and that's just the nature of, of a, of a business. So it's all been good change. I would say in terms of, as it relates to Kellogg and being owned by them. They're, I wouldn't say there's any significant change. It's all good stuff in the sense that like, you know, we have some things we're navigating through in terms of some legal stuff for, not legal but like contracts that we need their expertise. Like, talk about performance management or like how to operate or how to manage channel conflict as we grow. Like there's a lot of expertise that we have in internationally, the global expansion, like that's something we wouldn't really be able to do on her own very quickly. And so with their leadership and their expertise and access, we've been able to move that up on the calendar significantly and go after new opportunities like that.

PR: So there's been a bunch of good stuff. But like as a company, I wouldn't say we've changed our, there's been any change. Um, so the, the thing is, I always tell our team this, like we're gonna grow to, you know, we're gonna grow the business to 200 people and whatever—hopefully, you know, 400 people in a billion in revenue in these are things we want to achieve. We're going to change, like, you know what I mean? Change is a good thing and we, we have to fix our processes or improve our processes or whatever and let's not associate any sort of negative part of our size. Like, right, we're growing, we're getting bigger and there's some compromises that come with that. Meaning not everyone has all the information sometimes. That's part of it. Like I can't know what's going on in the social calendar. I just can’t. And mis-associating that change with new ownership or anything. Like that's, there's, we're growing and that's part of the, it's part of the territory. And um, we have to adapt in an intelligent way.

CK: Right, so there’s changes that just come from growth and there’s changes that come from the partnership from the acquisition.

PR: But like those changes are just things … ike there's really no changes so far. So it's all opportunity to be honest.

CK So the second big question that we typically ask on #WeGotGoals is about a goal you have for the future and how you plan to get there.

PR: As a company?

CK: Well, I mean that's up to you. You can answer it as a company or you can answer it as an individual.

PR: Yeah, I mean I think one of our goals is to really change and influence our legacy in the food business and really set the new standard for how food is designed, marketed and done. And so I really like remove the bullshit in big CPG and really restore confidence in different stakeholders from farmers, brokers, distributors, customers, consumers, et cetera. So we always pioneer our own path and, and so I guess the goal longer term or to really leave the impacting legacy on food and how things are done.

CK: And CPG?

PR:  Consumer packaged goods. So it's a monsters industry in a good way. It's huge. Everything. everyone needs food.

CK: That's a pretty ambitious goal to change the way the food system works. I mean, what do you think are the biggest problems and how do you think you can have an impact on them?

PR: Like one of the biggest ones is like, you know, as you get bigger, you, why can't big companies innovate in a, in an authentic and effective way? So that's one problem we approach and also how organizations are built or you know, it's totally different today. So I think organizationally through different design and tactics and systemizing things, you can change it in serving, ensuring, making value based decisions in ensuring you're serving the right people in the right way and not not, you know, I think there's a great quote, I actually think it's a Martha Stewart, but power—someone's character is best measured when you give them power and influence. Um, So like when you get powerful and in positions of influence, like how do you treat people is a real test of how you work.

CK: And you mentioned that kind of no BS, which I know is on your label and something that, I mean from a consumer perspective, like what do these, what might these changes look like and what does that no BS mean.

PR: No BS really just means, like, nonsense. It's not so literal, just like nonsense, like bad, like overly marketed to, gimmicky stuff. So it's across the board, across the business and of course in the products like right, we don't want nonsense ingredients or nonsense stuff, so that's how we, how we think about it.

CK: So what can people who are out there buying RXBARs now, like what kind of change my base fee in the long term in the food system, if you are successful?

PR: More access to food that like it's better for you, that's delicious. It saves you time that you can trust. So that's how I would think about it or how we think about it.

CK: Back to thinking about your corporate path and your, your journey again from the basement to do this nice office to what I understand is going to be in an even bigger office coming soon. When you think back on your journey and if you—I’m sure you often give advice to other entrepreneurs, if you have one or two key pieces of advice that you'd offer people, what might they be?

PR: Oh, there's a lot, there's so much, and it’s so situational. A motto I always live by is like, do what's effective and what feels good for me. That’s like, for me, important. There's a ton. Be proactive, not reactive. And like solve a problem, right? I feel like at least in entrepreneurship, a lot of like—Jared and I did this because we saw a gap in the market, like a problem. Like there wasn't a product that fit our needs. It wasn't like—we didn't focus on the outcome, we're not, you know, we were like, oh, we want to start a business and grow a business and do that. It was like, well, here's this opportunity that there's problem in the marketplace and do that. So that, that's important. You know, in a lot of people, like on the surface you're like, oh I want to have a nice business. I'm going to be an entrepreneur one day, like I never, we never were like, oh, we're going to be an entrepreneur one day it was just like, hey, there's this product we didn't, um, we want to make. And like, knowing what's important, doing what's important is important.

CK: Like you said, maybe be willing to suffer a little bit along the way.

PR: Yeah, suffering’s good. Pain’s good. As long as you learn from.

CK: One of those things like, in fitness as in life

PR: Well, yeah, think about fitness—there’s actually great parallels. So think about fitness, the most painful brutal workouts, not overused of course, but like the hardest workouts are where you stimulate the most growth from, you know. And work is the same thing. The most discomfort you have, the harder it is, the more you grow. And that's what I tell people, like I've been miserably uncomfortable since the day I started this. Vulnerable and uncomfortable. But that's part of growth and it's not. There's a stupid analogy, but I like to think about it—you know when you like wake up in the morning and you're in bed and it’s like so comfortable, especially in the winter here in Chicago, like. You never, if you take the sheets off, it's like oh, it's freezing and it's uncomfortable. You can just like stay in bed. That’s comfort, is just staying there. But like ripping the sheets off, being cold. Like that’s how you get going and that's how you start. You don't want to just stay in bed all day.

CK: Just get out there, get started. Excellent advice. You mentioned early on that one of your goals was freedom. Do you think you have it?

PR: That’s such a good question. No, I feel like a slave, but I do have creative freedom, but I'm a servant a hundred percent, but I like that.

CK: So do you think your idea of what freedom is has just changed.

PR: Yeah. Yeah. I don't have absolute freedom. I guess I need to define what freedom is. I mean, I love my job. It's not a, it's not even a job. It's like what I do. I, you know, I guess to give context, when I was prior to working at RXBAR, I was in a miserable spot, like I didn't like my job. I wasn't successful, I was insecure, I didn't have any confidence and I, I wanted to be successful. I wanted freedom to pursue my talent, whatever I was good at and, and grow and so I guess I needed to do to find what freedom meant. But back to your original question today am I free? No, I'm a servant to the company and I'm not free on paper, I guess. I don't know, that's a great question. I need to reflect on this. I don't have the answer.

CK: Yeah, maybe you’re a servant, but a happier one. A servant to a good master.

PR: I think what gives humans such satisfaction in serving others actually like for me, like watching all these people grow and achieve their goals is like—I’m high as a kite. Like there's nothing more gratifying than watching someone change and grow and achieve their goals and the way I try to do that is through serving them and serving their interests and whatnot. So I guess my priorities have shifted. Like my original goal was get out of misery and find something that I was good at and be successful and that's what I kind of maybe me my freedom. And now my goals are, or what makes me happy and goals are different.

CK: Peter, I can’t thank you enough for joining me.

PR: Thank you. No, I appreciate your time and I'm always here.

CK: This podcast is produced by me, Cindy Kuzma, and it's another thing that's better with friends, so please share it with yours. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, if you could leave us a rating or review, especially if you're an iTunes or Apple Podcasts, we would really appreciate it. Special thanks to J. Many for our theme music; to our guest this week, Peter Rahal; and to Tech Nexus, as always, for the recording studio.