President Donald Trump marked the new year by launching a military assault on Venezuela and abducting President Nicolas Maduro. Some 75 people in Venezuela were killed in the Saturday attack and 7 U.S service members were injured, according to the Washington Post. Many Democrats and some Republicans have denounced the act as unconstitutional, while Trump has followed up by threatening more military action against Cuba, Mexico, Columbia and Greenland. 

This week also marks the fifth anniversary of the January 6th insurrection on the U.S. Capitol by a mob of Trump supporters who were attempting to overturn Trump’s loss in the 2020 presidential election. 

I spoke with Vermont Sen. Peter Welch about these escalating domestic and international crises under the Trump administration just before he returned to Washington. 

The following transcript has been edited for length and clarity.

David Goodman  

Let's begin by getting your thoughts on the US actions against Venezuela this weekend.

Peter Welch  

It's reckless and it's wrong. I mean, let's acknowledge the military did a very professional job, but the decision the President made to depose the leader of another country, authoritarian that he was, and then to say that this is about us running Venezuela, and then to say that he wants our big oil companies like Exxon to take over Venezuelan oil brings us back to gunboat diplomacy. It's very, very dangerous. I’m adamantly opposed to what the President did.

David Goodman  

What did you as a United States senator know about this operation in advance?

Peter Welch  

Absolutely nothing. I'm a United States senator and the United States Senate is the institution that has the authority to authorize a military action. This was an act of war. We were never consulted. We were never involved. So we knew no more than any other citizen who woke up that morning. And what you're seeing is that the President is completely acting beyond the authority of an executive. In my view, Congress has to stand up and resist that. But we don't have Republican support, and we need that. I am a co sponsor of a resolution condemning this and I'm going to be urging my Republican colleagues that we not relinquish our authority and have a president who is exceeding the powers that the Constitution gives him.

David Goodman  

How is this supposed to work? For example, what happened when President George W. Bush invaded Iraq in 2003?

Peter Welch  

The President comes to Congress and asks for an authorization to use force, and in the case of President Bush, he did that before he went to Iraq. I was opposed to that and many members of Congress were, but a majority supported him. But the President did come to Congress. There's a reason for that. When we're going to put our men and women in harm's way, that's a major decision. Deciding to use military force is an easy decision for a president like Trump, but the consequences of it are paid for by our country and by men and women who are willing to serve at the call of the Commander in Chief. That decision should be deliberated. There should be a discussion, there should be a debate. There should be accountability by members of Congress that they said yes or they said no to this request by the President. What there shouldn't ever be is the arbitrary capacity of an individual who happens to be president to plunge us into a war.

David Goodman  

President Trump said in his address to nation on Saturday that this is all going to be free. It's going to be paid for by Venezuela. Do you believe that?

Peter Welch  

No, absolutely. He said that about the (border) wall too. Let's just discuss this. There is a decision that only the President made. Number one, the decision was to take out Maduro. Number two, everybody in Maduro's government is still in power. Number three, the President says we're going to run the country. How are we going to do that? Number four, he says our oil companies like Exxon are going to take over the Venezuelan oil fields. None of those things can happen and none of them should happen. So the President is saying, “they're going to pay for it.” This same president won't lift a finger to extend the health care tax credits that have already expired and where we're going to have about 25,000 Vermonters without health care as a result of that. No, this is bogus.

David Goodman  

Right now there are Vermonters in the Caribbean, the Vermont Air National Guard. What do we know about the role that they are playing in this operation?

Peter Welch  

First of all, we are all so impressed and appreciative of our Guard. They got 11 days notice right around the Christmas holidays and had to pick up and leave their families behind. There was no notice for them. What we do know is that none of them have been injured, and I am so pleased that that is the news that we have, and we are awaiting a report about what role they did play. But of course, we have the Air National Guard and they have air assets, and obviously those were a big part of this operation, so we'll find out. But I don't know exactly what they were requested to do.

David Goodman  

The President has described the strategic principle here as the “Donroe Doctrine,” his update of the 200 year old Monroe Doctrine. What do you understand Trump’s doctrine to be?

Peter Welch  

The Monroe Doctrine was an assertion by President James Monroe that European powers could not colonize countries in this hemisphere. What the “Donroe” Doctrine is is the United States can impose its will on countries in this hemisphere. Totally different. It's more about gunboat diplomacy. It's more about imperialism. These are the President's words: “we're going to run the country in Venezuela,” “we're going to have our oil companies there.” That has absolutely nothing to do with the Monroe Doctrine. If the President is, in a kind of pathetic way, trying to make a new word of “Donroe,” the Don is more like a mob boss than it is a diplomat or a statesman.

David Goodman  

The United States does not have state-run oil companies, but President Trump is saying that private American oil companies are going to rebuild the infrastructure of Venezuela's oil industry. Does that make sense to you?

Peter Welch  

No, absolutely not. I first started getting interested in Latin America during the President Kennedy administration. There had been a history of the United States companies essentially toppling governments to their own advantage. United Fruit in Nicaragua, of course, the United States toppling an elected government in Guatemala in 1954. What President Kennedy did was really started moving us to where we were promoting democracy. The Alliance for Progress, the Peace Corps -- they became the United States engagement in Latin America and South America, which were more premised on the ideals of democratic participation and democratic rule. President Trump has repudiated that totally and completely. What he wants to do is have transactional engagements with these countries that benefit him or benefit American companies. The aspiration for democratic rule or facilitating the path to democracy is totally rejected by this President. It is completely the wrong way to go.

David Goodman  

In the first year of President Trump's second term, the United States has taken military action against seven different countries, including three that we've never waged war against. After attacking Venezuela, Trump threatened action against Cuba, Mexico and Greenland. What can or will constrain him?

Peter Welch  

It has to be Congress and the American people. But right now, the biggest dilemma we have in Congress is that my Republican colleagues have abdicated the constitutional authority that we have as members of Congress in so many areas that the President is acting more like a king. Under Article One of the Constitution, Congress has to vote on war making and authorize it in Appropriations. It's up to Congress, the power of the purse. The President is disregarding that. In area after area, my Republican colleagues have been willing to abdicate their authority and their responsibility and delegate it to the President. So you're having this undemocratic concentration of power in a president who knows no limits and thinks that because he is president, he can do whatever he wants. That's a real threat to our democratic governing system.

David Goodman  

This seems to have opened up some cracks in the MAGA coalition. We are hearing about opposition from Marjorie Taylor Greene and Representative Thomas Massie, also Senator Rand Paul, who have opposed this break with the idea of “America First.” Do you think this could cause other fractures within that coalition?

Peter Welch  

I do. Americans do not want us getting involved in foreign wars. They support our military, and we need our strong military to make certain that we're defended. But this action in Venezuela is not to protect us from a threat to our country from Venezuela. His talk about taking over Greenland is not to protect us from a threat by Greenland or Denmark, and likewise, Colombia. Most Americans know that asking our citizen soldiers to go to war for presidential preferences is absolutely wrong. We've got to take care of things that are really tough for everyday working people in our country. Right now, Vermonters are losing health care. The President hasn't lifted a single finger to extend those tax credits so that Vermonters and Americans won't lose health care. The president ran as a person who was against these “forever wars” and now he's embracing these wars, not just in Venezuela, but also the threats In Colombia, the threats in Greenland and in Cuba. Why?

David Goodman  

Why do you think he has pivoted in such a dramatic fashion from a core principle that he has run on?

Peter Welch  

The biggest support group he has is the billionaires. If Venezuelan oil is now suddenly run by American oil companies, they benefit. And I'm not even certain the oil companies want what he's doing. The President is very, very good as a politician in stoking division, but his real loyalty where his policies have consistently been applied is when it comes to enhancing the wealth of the very wealthy. The tax cut bill, the One Big Beautiful Bill went largely to billionaires. When he talks about foreign policy, he talks about getting American companies in Venezuela in on the oil. When he meets with leaders from Middle Eastern countries, they talk about crypto deals or meme coin deals that involve his family. That's an obvious motivator for the President. It's really tough for Vermonters now with health care, with the cost of housing, and our small businesses that are contending with these tariffs that are really punishing their ability to sell their products and compete. They don't have the telephone number of the Secretary of Treasury where they can call up and get an exemption like a lot of Trump friends can. Our job is to get us focused back on the well being of American citizens, of having a fair and square economy where people work hard, and if they do and they have a good product, they can get ahead and their success doesn't depend on whether they're connected to the President or whether they made a big fat campaign contribution.

David Goodman  

This week marks the fifth anniversary of the January 6 insurrection in which Trump supporters attacked the US Capitol. You were in the Capitol that day. How did that experience change you, and in your view, change the country?

Peter Welch  

I was shocked, as we all were. I was in the gallery in the House of Representatives about 30 feet from where the shot was fired. I was on the floor above, but it was right below me. I couldn't believe it. And I was there when the mob was breaking the doors down. They were ultimately unsuccessful, but they broke the glass. I was seeing our security people with guns drawn. And what to this day still stuns me is that even though I was there, even though in real time I was hearing the shot, I was seeing the glass being broken, I didn't believe it was happening. It couldn't happen because this is the United States of America, and we've never had an insurrection to stop the peaceful transfer of power. We've been so blessed with this tradition where the winner is certified as the winner, and where violence is not used to change the outcome of an election. That changed that day. And what was also painful was to see these Capitol Police officers who I see every day, and they're just wonderful people that work hard, and they then became vilified, as though they were the attackers and the people who attacked them, who kicked them, who spat on them, who bit them, who tried to rip their helmets off and nearly break their necks -- those people were pardoned for attacking a police officer. That continues to be shocking to me. And you've got President Trump trying to rewrite history. We can't on this fifth anniversary allow that to happen. And I'll be with many of my colleagues who will be on the Senate floor describing what happened that day, what we experienced, and what the true history is of that event.

David Goodman  

That's such a powerful image of you not believing your own eyes. For decades, you have believed in one kind of American story, and even though it was unraveling in front of you, you couldn't believe it. Do you feel like you still respond that way to some of what you're seeing?

Peter Welch  

It's changing. Our democracy is under threat with what Trump is doing. There's no question. But here's what is now animating me. I think about those police officers who reported for duty, and then even through what they've been through, they keep coming back. I still look at the Capitol when I walk to work, and I just think about the incredible commitment this country has had in its constitution, in its declaration of independence to the aspiration of equality of all men and women, and how so much of our history has been about the effort to achieve that, to make it more real, to make it more encompassing for more people. That's a worthy goal and it is under assault now. But I think about folks who came before me like John Lewis, and Martin Luther King, and how they devoted their lives to the perfection of our democracy. It'll never be perfect. But isn't it a worthy aspiration, even if it's under assault?

David Goodman  

Do you think something like January 6 could happen again?

Peter Welch  

It could happen again. This a jump-ball situation. What's going to be the outcome is not inevitable, and that's why it takes all of us to do whatever it is we can. We're in a very dangerous place in our democracy and what the outcome is going to be, I can't predict. But I can tell you this, we in Vermont are going to do every single thing we can. What Vermont does is (have) fierce debate about how to solve this or that problem, but also a shared sense that we're all in it together and that we have a shared obligation to the future of our state. We need more of that in Washington.