Driving around rural areas of the Northeast, it’s not uncommon to see an occasional home or vehicle displaying a Confederate battle flag. Look closer, and you might find symbols of far right groups like the Proud Boys or the Three Percenters, both classified as hate groups.

Reporters Emily Russell and Zach Hirsch decided to dig further. They spent months investigating the reach of the far right movement in rural upstate New York. They found law enforcement officers who are members of the extremist “constitutional sheriffs” movement who vow that they will not enforce state laws with which they disagree. These include laws relating to gun rights and public health. And they found a man who went to prison for participating in the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol and anticipates a military takeover during the 2024 election and a third world war.

Russell and Hirsch also crisscrossed the district represented by Rep. Elise Stefanik, R-NY. Stefanik has amplified far right views, such as the white supremacist Great Replacement Theory and the false claim that the 2020 election was stolen. Stefanik is frequently mentioned as a potential vice presidential running mate for Donald Trump in the 2024 election.

This investigation into the far right extremist movement in upstate New York is the subject of a remarkable five-part podcast from North Country Public Radio called “If All Else Fails,” which is hosted by Russell and Hirsch.

This Vermont Conversation includes the first episode of If All Else Fails, broadcast by permission of North Country Public Radio, followed by a conversation with reporters Emily Russell and Zach Hirsch.

“As we saw on Jan. 6, it only took a couple thousand people to suspend our democratic process for hours and force an evacuation from the Capitol,” Russell told the Vermont Conversation.

“Even if folks who have gone down these rabbit holes may be a minority in this country, if you get enough of them riled up, they can do a tremendous amount of damage to our democracy in the U.S.,” Russell said.