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at GenesisBack.com. That's corporate at GenesisBack.com and let them know that you found out about them from UAC. All right, with that said, Dr. Susan Mitchell, who lives in Bloomington, Illinois, and you've practiced, you've had your own practice there for 20 years. You practiced for 28 years total. And, I remember Susan, you were in UAC and then I know everything got busy with the world and it's been great to have you back in and you brought your amazing kids to the last event in Boca that I saw you. But we were talking before we started recording and you also do a lot of coaching. You said primarily with women, but now that's evolved into coaching even associate doctors and CAs and really the whole team. And you really feel that's maybe been the secret behind the success of your

Dr. Allen Miner (01:50.478)

clinic is the team and the bonus structure. So, I'd love to unpack that today because you know, this is a generalization, but generally speaking, a lot, you know, our, head of our chiropractic clinics is Dr. Shelby Loughridge, and I'm just going to be blunt. Females tend to be oftentimes better leaders. And I think there's an empathetic connection there that oftentimes gets lost with a lot of male leaders. Um, but Don't let me answer that for you. Why are you so good at building teams? What do you learn about building your teams and how you bonus people? How many associates do you have in your clinic?

Dr Susan Mitchell (02:27.024)

My fifth one is starting on Monday.

Dr. Allen Miner (02:29.495)

So that's awesome. And so, let's just start there. Obviously, you figured out something that's working or you wouldn't go to five associates. So, talk to us about it. What have you learned? What do you do? How have you made this work?

Dr Susan Mitchell (02:37.538)

Yes, yes.

Dr Susan Mitchell (02:43.437)

Yeah, so what I think I'm most grateful for is that all of my doctors have been with me, you so they are all are long term, and they want to continue to be long term. so, a few things in that and one, of course, being conscious of when you hire, you know, really looking at that personality. And I tell my clients, be really clear before you hire an associate, you know, so many doctors are, I need more hands. I need; I need help. I want freedom and

They just hire and hope for the best, really have no intention of training. You know, they just want to hire and go to the golf course. And it's like, well, that's cute, but that's not how it works. And yes. So yes, yes. Right. Right. Right. It never does. So, yeah. So, I think that's the first realization is that it's not just buy and freedom, but so hiring the right person, being very clear on what you want. Like, do you just need another.

Dr. Allen Miner (03:15.728)

Yeah. Nope, never. I was guilty of that with my first couple of associates and it didn't work out well.

Dr Susan Mitchell (03:39.277)

set of loving hands or do you want someone to help build the business? Because those are two very different people and being honest with them from the beginning. That's the other thing I think sometimes I'm super transparent on all of my interviews. I tell them all my flaws, and you know, because my job is not for everyone, that is for sure. So being really clear and then bonuses are huge because it puts the power in their hands. Like how successful do they want to be?

Dr Susan Mitchell (04:08.823)

And, you know, I, the beginning, I had one doctor that didn't love it. You know, he wanted that security of just raise my base, right. And I'm like, no, you raise your base, you know, or raise your income by, by what you do. And so, and not in a snotty way, but it empowers them. And so it helps hold themselves accountable, but also my team holds each other accountable. You know, if somebody is really.

Dr Susan Mitchell (04:33.135)

lagging behind, that affects their pay too. So, they're like, hey, what can we do here? You know, let's, let's fix this. So that's really what I love about the bonus systems. And again, being very clear on what do you want and then bonus them on that, you know, so sometimes I've had to change what I want to bonus. and, and from a freedom standpoint, I will say I took myself off the floor six months ago and I was only probably adjusting three to six hours a week anyway, but, and we've been seeing record numbers ever since. So.

Dr. Allen Miner (04:43.724)

Yeah. Yup. Yup.

Dr Susan Mitchell (05:02.347)

It's that whole, you know, button, the seat, but, but they were happy for me to be off the floor because now they have opportunity to work the same hours, make more money. And so everybody's happy. So it is, what do you want to grow and bonus that it really is that simple.

Dr. Allen Miner (05:19.806)

That's brilliant. So, let's unpack all that. Let's start with I'm just curious when you talk about when you're hiring and you talk about your vulnerabilities and what you're not good at and the pros and cons maybe of working Do you mind sharing a little bit about that because I think a lot of owners have trouble being vulnerable and you wanted I Know early on I would oversell my jobs

And then it would always bite me because I'd paint the opportunity that was possible and if somebody fell short, they almost felt oversold by me. I've learned to, yeah, I think I take a little more of a self-deprecating, honest, transparent approach now because I don't want them to be shocked. I want them to know the reality of what they're stepping into. So do you mind sharing just some of your, what does that look like? What does that sound like when you're interviewing somebody? What do you share?

Dr Susan Mitchell (06:10.702)

Sure. Yes. yes, I would, you know, why waste their time or mine? You know, and then that's the thing. There's all the research that I don't know the numbers on of how much time and money we spend onboarding a new person. And so, I'm not interested in that. You know, I want to be as I make them come and observe. So, because, you know, everybody says, I love to be busy. And it's like, you haven't seen this level of busy. I promise you, you know, you are just.

Maybe if you work at Starbucks, but other than that, you know, it's, just that, and I will say just side note, when I'm interviewing, you know, when I'm looking at indeed, which is not a fun thing to do for my CAs. I am looking for that Starbucks person, that waitress that I don't, I don't want them that they worked at a medical office. Like, no, that's not right. So, yes. So being very honest, like we're fast pace.

Dr Susan Mitchell (07:05.878)

you will you have to be able to multitask you know you're going to be doing seven things with a baby on your hip and you have to keep smiling and all those things you might have quite likely you will be sped up on you will be pooped on like this is going to happen you know and they're like it's fine and I'm like no really so and we do see a lot of kids so it is loud in our office at times and all those things and so and then I have them come and observe so they can see and they always you know their eyes are this big and

Dr Susan Mitchell (07:34.156)

like, you weren't kidding. And so, I would much rather have them like, are you sure? I always mentioned to you, like we talk about, in my practice, because we see so many families, we do talk about vaccination decisions and things like that. And of course that's not always, you know, I'm weird. And so, to the average public, so it's like, I want to be, and even with a lot of doctors, they don't have that same education or belief system that I do. So.

Dr. Allen Miner (07:54.805)

Yeah.

Dr. Allen Miner (08:00.761)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Susan Mitchell (08:01.262)

I tell them, you don't have to believe the way I believe, but you have to at least be open to learning about it because I can't have someone at my front desk saying like, Dr. Mitchell's cuckoo, you know? So those, all those kinds of things. I try and be as honest if I'm a hundred percent transparent, I always tell them, you know, I also like the F word. So, if that, you know, if, if that's offensive to you and I did have one woman that didn't take the job and I'm like, thank goodness, because I'm not going to change, you know, um,

Dr. Allen Miner (08:20.029)

I love it.

Dr. Allen Miner (08:28.498)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Susan Mitchell (08:31.413)

So yeah, so I just try and put them out there.

Dr. Allen Miner (08:32.318)

That's beautiful. Let's talk about compensation for associate docs. What are you finding? How does that work? And even the economics of the business, do they find their own people? Is the practice busy enough that you funnel people to them? And then how do you pay them? How do they earn their money? If you don't mind, share your model.

Dr Susan Mitchell (08:54.423)

Sure. Yeah, I don't mind. So, we're fortunate enough we don't have to do marketing. We've been around long enough that we don't. So that makes it easier for my docs. So, what I've done in the past was always, whatever level we were at, how much ever we were collecting per month, then they got their base, and it was a lower base back in the day, but a lower base, and then they got a percentage of, once we were well over,

our collections, then they would get a small percentage of that. Well, that got harder because in our practice, whoever's available first will see the patient. So now it's like, this person's getting paid based on what this person's doing and it was just, it didn't work. and quite honestly, I had a doctor that was, you know, the middle of the day, she's like, I'm just going to sit in my office for a little while, just, you know, and I'm like, no, no, that's not why we're here. So, I now, my doctors are paid

Dr Susan Mitchell (09:53.686)

per adjustment. So, we just have tiers where if you see this many adjustments and I do it per week, I think that's probably the biggest thing about bonuses that I want to say is so many doctors want a bonus on collections for the month or even visits per month. I don't think that works as well because it's too big of a goal. you know, so if they are looking at short term, like I got five days, then they know they're on track where it's like, I have all month to do this. Then they're just panicking the last few days of the month, you know?

Dr. Allen Miner (09:58.46)

Go.

Dr. Allen Miner (10:10.568)

Yeah, that's really insightful. That's great.

Dr Susan Mitchell (10:23.477)

So I think it's huge. I just played with it, right? So.

Dr. Allen Miner (10:30.642)

Can I ask, can I, so if I can recap what I'm hearing and then I got a couple questions.

They're in the clinic and you've established the business well enough that there's a flow of people coming back and a flow of people that are in the practice. Question, are you guys a cash clinic insurance combination? How do you do that part of it?

Dr Susan Mitchell (10:51.2)

Combination, I'd say probably, we have one insurance. It's Blue Cross Blue Shield. So that's it. That's the one that's still good in Illinois. Yes. No, no, care plans all the way. I mean, that's another, we do year care plans.

Dr. Allen Miner (10:59.482)

And yeah, do you do care plans, or do you pay as they go or care plans?

Dr. Allen Miner (11:08.136)

It's. And so, who presents is do all the docs present those? Is there a specialist who presents those as a doctor is a staff member who starts somebody under care?

Dr Susan Mitchell (11:18.664)

The doctors will do the new patient and the report of findings, but I also do have my CA where she'll go in and recap everything, you know, and fill in the blanks and get them scheduled out for the year and get their payments all, you know, whatever, whatever they're doing there. So.

Dr. Allen Miner (11:31.346)

Yeah. But then once they start, those people, it kind of sounds like they might be able to switch between doctors very fluidly. that everybody kind of cares for everybody kind of a model? Great.

Dr Susan Mitchell (11:38.698)

Yes.

Yes, yep, that's our goal. And again, it's just, set it up in the report of, know, we tell patients now just to save you time. Typically, whoever's available first will adjust you. But if you ever have a preference, just let us know. We'll mark your schedule, you know, mark your account, no problem. And so of course, our schedule is full of colors because some do prefer this doctor or that doctor.

Dr. Allen Miner (12:00.38)

Yep. Yeah, that's great. then, so everybody's helping on the front end equally doing reports and exams. And then there's this kind of fluidity for going between people and if people like somebody, they get assigned to them. And then what I really find interesting is what you said, it's done weekly.

Dr Susan Mitchell (12:09.18)

Yep.

Dr. Allen Miner (12:22.46)

But then it's just very, there's a range and if you see this range, here's how much of the bonus you get on top of your base. And as they climb through those ranges, they have the potential to earn more money is what I heard. That's beautiful. It's really, yeah, I like that. I've always found we do better by bonusing our doctors off of profit. And I appreciate as a practice has more doctors that gets more complicated. So, I like your solution to simplifying it.

Dr Susan Mitchell (12:33.835)

Yep, absolutely, yep.

Dr. Allen Miner (12:51.195)

So, doctors are still responsible contribute to the bigger piece of the puzzle and they're not riding on somebody's coattails. But I've always found that profit number just works easily than then all the there's so many different formulas chiropractors use for bonus comp models that can get really percentages and changing percentages and conversion rates and new people and adjustments. And at the end of the day, it really just comes down to what's the bottom line. And it sounds like you found a really maybe the first time I've heard of that model in a group clinic.

that's sort of a shared environment like yours. It's really genius, Dr. Susan, I love it.

Dr Susan Mitchell (13:24.775)

It works well. we, I bonus my CAs too on the number of adjustments we see. So same thing. I mean, they will be on the doctors like get me recs, get me this if they're not, you know, because if the numbers go down, so does there, you know, their weekly bonus.

Dr. Allen Miner (13:29.382)

Mmm.

Dr. Allen Miner (13:36.41)

Yeah.

Dr. Allen Miner (13:39.719)

Do you mind my asking what's your average collection per visit? What do you charge for a visit? 60, all right, great. Yeah, it's funny how that number is really, we're hearing doctors, like the last interview we just did, the doc was up to in the, I think 80s or 90s, and we're really hearing, our clinics were north of 100. Just for the adjustment, we're seeing, I think as it gets more expensive to be in business and inflation comes along, I'm not hearing the $30 adjustment anymore, the $40 anymore, so.

Dr Susan Mitchell (13:43.978)

60, Yep, yep.

Dr Susan Mitchell (14:06.771)

Yeah, no, yeah.

Dr. Allen Miner (14:08.945)

That's beautiful. Well, Dr. Susan, that was a great best practice. I think that's going to help a lot of people. Two other questions. If somebody's interested in your coaching services, where do they find you? How do they learn about you?

Dr Susan Mitchell (14:22.026)

Yeah, so it's you 2.0 creating you 2.0 and I think probably right now it's just people just been contacting me directly, so I don't have I don't spend honestly Well, I haven't even looked at my website in years to be honest. So, it started out like a six-week program, but that was probably 12 13 years ago. So right now, it's really just been word of mouth and

Dr. Allen Miner (14:39.388)

Ha

Dr Susan Mitchell (14:49.566)

so I don't have a landing page and all that other that it's like just contact me and you know we'll set it up. Emails great. Yep. Emails good. Yep. So it's just that Dr. at Mitchell family Cairo dot com. We can just go through there because that's what I checked the most. So, it's yeah.

Dr. Allen Miner (14:51.334)

Yeah. How do they do that? it as email best a number? What's that?

Dr. Allen Miner (15:06.106)

Beautiful. And last question is, UAC, excuse me, UAC, you were in UAC several years ago and then, like I said, life got busy, and you came back. What's been the benefit, for being a part of this group and why did you come back in?

Dr Susan Mitchell (15:21.896)

Yeah, it is 100 % because of the big thinking in the room. know, it's like I noticed being, you know, in the group I was in previously, I was one of the coaches. And so it was like, hey, who am I going to, to expand my thinking? And, and so it's that and my accountability groups awesome. Like just those relationships and yeah, the bigger thinking is what I love.

Dr. Allen Miner (15:46.553)

Yeah, I've always found if you can be the small person in the room, and there's so much benefit in that. And if you're the big person, it's time to find the next room is what my experience has been. So well, Dr. Susan, thanks for coming on and thanks for sharing. It's been a pleasure to have you.

Dr Susan Mitchell (15:51.591)

Yes, yes, yes. That's right. That's right.

Dr Susan Mitchell (16:01.053)

Yes, my pleasure. Thank you. Thanks. Bye bye.

Dr. Allen Miner (16:02.501)

Great interview. We'll see you. Bye. Thanks, Doc. Good work. You too.

Dr Susan Mitchell (16:06.684)

Thank you. Have a good one. Bye.

Dr. Allen Miner (16:13.282)

All right, everyone. Dr. Susan Mitchell is today's interview. She's been in practice 28 years. She's also coach chiropractors, but she has a really unique perspective. She has five associates in her practice. How did she do that? How does she set up her bonus and compensation model? How does she interview? What's been the culture that's made this so successful? And as you can imagine, when you have five associates there, she's no longer in practice. She's now the CEO of that business. So we're going to unpack that in today's episode. Today's sponsor.

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It's a flat rate of $9.87 an hour. You can't find somebody college educated to work in your practice. And it really helps to, you know, a of the monotonous busy work we found if we can free up our CAs to interact with our patients, that's what they love doing. And all the backend work of phones and social media posting, data, bookkeeping, EOBs, all of those things, your insurance phone calls, PI phone calls.

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