Margret Grebowicz joins PTO to talk about her new book, 'Mountains and Desire: Climbing vs. The End of the World'. We talked about how the notion of the boho climbing rat, who forgoes a normal life and conventional ideas of success has given way to the idea of the modern climber as emblematic of entrepreneurial achievement and heteronormativity. We also talked about Free Solo, the 2018 documentary on Alex Honnold's attempt to free climb the vertical rock face of El Capitan in Yosemite National Park, and how the documentary illuminates the themes of Margret's book.