Melissa Gira Grant and Chardine Taylor Stone join PTO to discuss police and male violence and the murder of Sarah Everard. We talked about the importance of not seeing Wayne Couzen's role as a police officer as merely incidental to the murder of Everard and we also talked about why carceral feminist approaches that seek to combat male violence through the police and the courts are doomed to fail. We also talked about the social media reaction to the initial vigil for Sarah Everard on Clapham common and how the struggle against police violence and violence against women in general requires the building of a mass movement of collective struggle that cuts across different identities.