On this week’s show Grace Blakeley speaks to Rutger Bregman, historian and author of Utopia for Realists and Humankind: A Hopeful History.

In January of last year, Bregman shot to international fame when video of him excoriating the tax-avoiding corporate elite at Davos went viral – and in the latest A World to Win he discusses a range of topics from human nature to capitalism and the 24-hour news cycle.

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Thanks to our producer, Conor Gillies, and Tribune’s designer Kevin Zweerink for their work on this episode. This podcast is supported by the Lipman-Miliband Trust.