Tennessee Turfgrass – Julie Holt, Content Director, TheTurfZone.com

The Turf Zone: Welcome to The Turf Zone. In this episode of Tennessee Turfgrass, we are talking to the one and only, the man himself, Dr. Tom Samples, UT Extension Specialist. Tom, thank you so much for finding a little bit of time to talk to us.

Tom Samples: Thank you, Julie. It’s always a pleasure and we really do appreciate what all you and Leading Edge do for our turfgrass industry and us at UT. 

TTZ: Well you guys have been a great help to us, getting us information and I have enjoyed working with you as well so it really is an honor to get to talk to you and we’re celebrating your pending retirement this summer – after how many years in the industry? 

TS: Oh gosh, I started here at UT in November of 1985, so about 36 years plus. 

TTZ: Prior to that – tell me the history leading up to you ending up at Tennessee for the majority of your career. 

TS: It’s kind of interesting because a lot of my colleagues, they were great golfers or they live near a great golf course, I got into this thing called turf in a roundabout way. I majored in agronomy crops at Ohio State. My dad was a farm manager in Ohio, and late in my high school career, I decided I really liked the farm thing. And I really would enjoy farming, but we didn’t own any land. So I thought to myself, maybe rather than farm, I just need to find a job or vocation where I could help farmers.

So I majored in agronomy crops at Ohio State and we had two choices – either crops or soils, and I chose crops so my background is in row crop agriculture as an undergrad at Ohio State and then my first job after graduating, I worked for a farm cooperative in middle Ohio, but we were right in Franklin County Ohio, which is the Columbus area. After about 5 years there, I realized we’re losing farm acreage and a co-op is farmer owned and operated. To be brutally honest, I was not a great manger. I could not convince my board to allow me to, I wanted to establish a retail nursery center and a retail greenhouse area in Hilliard, Ohio, which is just on the outskirts of Columbus, and I just couldn’t convince my group that needed to happen. But while I was there, I got very interested in lawn care products and this was a time ChemLawn was really cranking up and then there was an upstart company called PerfaLawn that was located in Hilliard.

I got to befriend a lot of those folks that were out there making lawn applications, so I gained their confidence, for some strange reason, and I got really interested in the products and the product lines, and then my wife graduated from Ohio State and her parents lived in northeastern Oklahoma and we went through one winter where we were basically living in a mobile home park that was fed off the propane tank, which was a central propane tank and the administrator of the park had – we’d run out of propane, and so when the blizzard hit, my wife and I were three days without heat. And thank goodness there were snowdrifts and we just hunkered down. I promised her, “If we survive this, we’re going to go wherever you want to go.” So she wanted to go get her Masters in Library Science. And with her parents in Oklahoma, I thought, I want to work with turfgrasses that are under stress.

And so I actually came and visited the University of Tennessee and met, Dr. Callahan was not on campus at the time so I met with Dr. Don Williams and we talked about turf, the turf program, and then I went to OK State and it was almost like family, so that’s where Wanda and I ended up. And then having pursued a Master’s Degree, I had no earthly idea that I would ever have a Ph.D. But I just fell in love with the research and all that and the people of Oklahoma. To this day, I tell people, probably way too much, but you could take the people in OK and the people in TN and just swap and you wouldn’t miss a lick. They’re so social, sociable and they kind of take care of their own. So once I started to work on my Ph.D., I thought, I’m not sure I want to do this grant writing and research thing as much as I want to do outreach. And so I talked to my major advisor, who was Dr. Doug Brede. He eventually became the head of the turfgrass breeding program at what was then Jackman Seed Company. But I talked to him about, do you think I could survive as an extension person. He kind of embraced that. So he made sure I talked a lot at meetings and I didn’t have a problem talking a lot, but I needed a venue. Believe it or not, I was quite bashful. 

TTZ: I actually don’t believe it. 

TS: I really was! I had to work on my speaking skills and I’m just about there. So anyway, I graduated OK State. I had two opportunities and I was just, I just loved TN. My dad was born and raised over in Hamblen County and so we had visited my grandparents for years and I’d spent many summers near Morristown, and my grandfather, he would use language, so I’m not going to use exactly the words he used, but he said, “Son, you’re one of those Yankees.” 

TTZ: I appreciate that edit, Tom. You made my job easier. 

TS: My grandparents, I was so close to them. They really enjoyed the fact that I came back to TN. I just remember falling in love with the state. But above and beyond that, what’s made my job so rewarding – when you come out of grad school, you kind of just, you’ve got a certain base knowledge, and you’ve been taught how to write journal articles, you don’t even put a comma before the word “and” and you very rarely use the word “the”. And all of a sudden, I fill this extension position and my first assignment was to actually write three 4H guides for students, I think they were 5^th grade, 8^th grade, and 11^th grade. And I’d just survived a dissertation and wrote journal article and was so square and all of a sudden – and my editor, thank goodness I had one of the best editors in the world and we’re still very close, her name is Wanda Russell, and I kid her all the time, I take her out to lunch and I won’t let her pay, because I tell her, “If it hadn’t been for you, I wouldn’t have been promoted.” Because she basically taught me how to write for the public. Well, at least for children. 

TTZ: You know what, the public and children are not all that different. 

TS: So it kind of fit well because at this point in my career, I still kind of think like a 5^th grader! It keeps me young. 

TTZ: I think that people who know you would say that you have the energy and joy of a 5^th grader, which is absolutely a compliment. 

TS: I’ll take it as one! 

TTZ: That’s so interesting because, for a little bit of context, you share articles with me all of the time for Tennessee Turfgrass Magazine, and many of those articles go well beyond TN and we’re able to share that with other associations that my company, Leading Edge works for, and your articles, I actually can see that. I didn’t know that story that you had to make that transition from writing for journals to writing for regular people, the public, or children. I can see that, and I’ve always seen that in the articles that you’ve so generously shared with me for our readers here in TN and beyond. 

TS: But just so the people know, Julie, I’m speaking with an awesome editor. I’ll tell you what else I’ve learned. My dad always made sure that I remained humble all through my childhood. One thing I’ve learned, and I’ve learned it quickly, thank goodness, when you write something, it’s yours, you wrote it. BUT editors deserve everything they’re paid. I remember I got the first edit back on that fifth grade 4H publication, and I’d never seen so much red ink in my life. And this was before computers – this was hard copy. So after about my third publication, working with my editor here at UT, she changed from red to purple. I asked what’s the deal going to purple? She said that I have a color that I use as you progress, as you make strides. So from that point on – I didn’t go beyond purple, I don’t know what the next color is. 

TTZ: So we talked about how you got to UT, and I know that in the years that you’ve been there, there’s really been a big change in the work that’s being done around turfgrass and studies there and the team you have now. As someone who has been there through the evolution of that, can you tell me how the current turfgrass program at UT came to be? 

TS: This is one of my favorite topics, talk about timeliness. I was asked by a great friend of mine on faculty, who I very rarely say no to, to do a seminar about the turf program. I asked, “What do you want me to say?” And she said, “Say whatever you want!” So I went back and I looked, I got old pictures, then I modernized it. There were three objectives to this seminar, it was a departmental seminar, the first objective, I always enjoy, I had no idea how great SEC football was. I’ve been to Ohio State which was then the Big 8, and they had Ohio State versus Michigan, and then there was another team to be named later that would be competitive in that conference. Then I went to OK State and in that conference, at that time it was always OK University and then Nebraska and another team to be named later. And then when I came to the SEC I realized Holy cow. I would argue to this day that the SEC is by far just such an awesome conference because of the competitiveness. So early on I was asked to consult with the folks at Neyland Stadium, so I always enjoyed Neyland, so I did a history of Neyland Stadium. One of my best friends on earth was Bobby Campbell, many of the people from TN will remember Bobby. He had a knack, he could grow grass on a rock. He didn’t have a formal turf degree, but I’ll swear I learned as much about bermudagrass from him as he ever did from me. He would ask questions, that I asked him, “How in the world do you think like that? How did you see that?” So anyway, I did the history of Neyland Stadium, and then I did the history of the turfgrass program, and then I did the history, the evolution of tools that we use as turfgrass professionals in the industry. Things like chelated fertilizers that can protect the micronutrients from being tied up in the soils, that make sure that they’re still plant available, even if they’re treated as foliar treatments, but once they contact the soil, if the micronutrient is in a soluble form, it’s often tied up by the soil and becomes inactive. So there’s chelated micronutrients and the chelation process, that prevents that micronutrient from becoming tied up by the soil and it stays plant-available. Then things like topdressers and lightweight rollers and our sod production technologies, magnum rolls. We have the big roll. We actually have sod harvesters that are basically one-person sod harvesters. The automation is just unbelievable, so with that said, I’m going to give you the synopsis of the development of the turf program.

When I first got here, Dr. Lloyd Callahan was doing it all. He taught, he was an excellent classroom instructor. He was doing fungicide trials, he had researched greens that, before I got here in 1985, he lost the greens because UT decided, let’s build a vet med school right there across from Ellington Center, so some of the best research greens in Knoxville were destroyed. So Dr. Callahan was here, he was a graduate of OK State, but if I recall, he came to us from Rutgers, but he had OK roots. So then my position was created not by the University of TN actions, but by the actions of the turfgrass industry, specifically, Mr. Buck Allison. I met Buck one time, he was the former commissioner of the highway department, I believe. Mike Allison, his son, was in the sod business in Nashville. So Mike and I became pretty close, so if it wasn’t for their political influence and the influence the industry had at the Nashville level, my position would have never come to pass.

So I got here in 1985 and of all things, the U of TN made one of the finest hires they’ve ever made in one John Sorochan. Now John, he talks a bit funny, you know he drove a winter beater. If you’re from Canada, you might have two vehicles – your main high end vehicle you drive when it’s nice, then over winter you may be driving a Corvair or a Volkswagon, something that if you run off the road, you’re not out, no big deal, we don’t have to call insurance. We hired John, he’s gotten all his three degrees from Michigan State, but one thing we loved about John is what you see is what you get, and one thing I particularly liked was sometimes when someone comes into a teaching and research position like he did, the focus is initially on what I’m going to do in the research arena. What John did, he recognized the value of our geographic location here in TN, we’re in the northern transition zone, and he quotes Dr. AJ Powell, formerly from Kentucky, who was one of my mentors, AJ would never admit it, but he and Coleman Ward (Coleman was at Auburn). Coleman and AJ, they were basically my adopted mentors, they would not acknowledge that. But AJ says in the transition zone, we can grow any grass equally poorly.

But John, his goal was to expand the turfgrass curriculum, attract students, and then while he was doing that, to also decide what research really needed to be done. Rather than coming, because coming in, John had so much expertise in the sports turf arena, he’d already helped with the renovation of the field at Detroit, he’d been internationally involved with soccer installations, and he was just a perfect fit. I’ll never forget, we have a lunch place called Mabel’s on campus, and John and I were at Mabel’s one day. Every once in a while, when he’s thinking, he’ll get this glossy look in his eye. He’ll disagree. But I can tell when he’s really pondering, or my daddy would say he’s “ciphering”. John looked at me and said, “It’s going to be fun to see how far we can take this program.”

I was the outreach guy. I really wanted to take the research to the industry, and I wanted to take what I saw and learned from the industry professionals, what needs to be studied, back to John. So it was a nice arrangement, and then John thinks big picture. I think within the boundaries of TN. John thinks globally, so I think our personalities complement one another. And then, sure enough, with his interest, in another life, he would be an awesome star in sales, but he and I have hammered, so often, every time we saw a dean, we’d explain, “Hey, the turfgrass program at TN could be this and one reason is, geographic location – transition zone, transition zone, transition zone.”

And finally, there was a great leader on the ag campus, his name was Dr. Joe DiPietro, and Joe listened to us. And Joe made sure that Brandon Horvath was hired to do the teaching, but in between that time, a second greatest – well, and Dr. Horvath was the third – the beautiful thing about our program is we’ve been able to hire and retain who we want to carry our banner. And I don’t know how many programs can say that. So Jim Brosnan came on board and it’s just like having another brother. See, I had three sisters, that’s how come I’m as weird as I am. But really I consider Dr. Sorochan, Dr. Horvath and Dr. Brosnan in addition to being premiere researchers and instructors and extension people and communicators, they are like brothers to me. So that’s how this thing evolved. And I’ll say this for the UT Athletics Department, Dr. Sorochan let it be known that our consultation as the turf team at UT has saved the department X number of dollars.

I can’t tell you how much money was saved, Dr. Sorochan had a graduate student who did a study on paint and how much savings there could be – you know how in economics there’s a law of diminishing returns – so there’s a certain amount of paint that you need to apply on those lines, and any excess might be beneficial when you’re on the field, but from the stands, you can’t tell a difference. So I can’t tell you how much money that has saved high school budgets, middle school budgets – impactful research. So anyway, so the UT Athletics actually supported Dr. Horvath’s hire for at least 5 years, so they were paying for his position. And then it’s just interesting that Dr. Horvath was gaining national and international recognition for the concepts and his new technologies he uses in the classroom to educate. There’s so many different ways to educate – empower, gaming… I asked him one time, “How in the world did you decide to do a Jeopardy turf game?” He could relate to today’s students. In their own ways, they’ve all gained national and international recognition. And then I just kind of kept plowing along, but it’s been a heck of a good ride!

What’s funny, and they just shake their heads, I’ve told several department heads this, a great friend of mine who just left our university and went back to OK State as the research director, many of the listeners may know Dr. Scott Senseman, I asked Scott one time, “You’re from southern Ohio, you ever bet on the horses?” And he goes, “What?! What brought this on?” I said, “I’m trying to decide what my role is in this thing called a turf team, and my role is to keep the thoroughbreds on the track.” I’m like the horse with the big behind that takes the thoroughbred to the gate. And then the thoroughbred goes into the gate, the bell goes off, then the thoroughbred runs like crazy, and then at the end of the race, that horse with the big behind goes up beside the thoroughbred and takes him back to the stable.

TTZ: Can I run this analogy by the rest of the turf team? I want their feedback on this one… 

TS: They would agree! I try to contribute. I love working with the county agents, I love working with Master Gardeners, I love working with the industry professionals. But someone could actually stay busy just answering homeowner calls up here on a daily basis. Because there’s so much interest in home landscapes right now and there has been. So, I do things that I totally enjoy doing, but I’m not sure that they would look as good on a spreadsheet because I’m not attracting funding, and I don’t have an international reputation, other than my contacts by way of the world wide web.

TTZ: I want to talk about that a little bit because I’ve been working with you guys in this context for about four years, and understanding the relationship of researchers and turf teams at universities and extension being kind of the outreach arm of that into the industry, do you feel like, I think in TN, probably most of all of the groups that I work with, I feel like anybody I talk to understands who is extension and what do they do and how can they help me. And how can I give back and say “Here’s something I’m dealing with and can you take this back and is this something that’s worthy of being looked at more closely?” In the industry in TN, they do give you a lot of credit for that, so when you tell me you were shy and you had to work up to talking in front of and to people. It’s so hard for me to align those two, tell me how did you get comfortable in that role of being out and about and learning to work with professionals across the state and bridge that gap back to the university? 

TS: First of all, let me say, I’ve made up for it. I didn’t talk til I was three and a half years old. I was very prematurely born, and my mom and dad thought I had a speaking problem because early on I hadn’t said much of anything. At the age of three and a half, my mom told me, they took me to the doctor and they asked if there was something, should we do speech therapy? And the doctor looked at them after analyzing me by myself, he said, “You’ve been spoiling this child, he hasn’t HAD to speak.” One older sister thought she was my mother, so the reality was, he told my mom and dad, “Made him stand up for himself, all he does is grunt and point and he gets everything.” But I think because I was premature and they were really not sure that I would survive. So, I’ve definitely made up for the speaking part. I’ve just about caught up.

One thing I owe the industry so much is they were willing to share with me. Here I’m from THE university – here comes this guy from the university and I learned so much for the first five years. Some of my closest friends, I would tell them, “Tell me how this works. Why do you do it this way?” Because I had not been out on the golf courses and dealt with traffic. We work with plots, but when you have 50,000 rounds of golf a year on a golf green that’s 5500 square feet, there are issues that are going to come up. So, it’s just such a challenge. Same with the sports turfs. I’ve worked some with bermudagrass, not much at all with overseeding. With TN, we go out to the football coaches, and you’ve got a high school that’s got a very limited budget that the soccer coach wants to play on the field in the spring and the football coach wants to protect the field so that he’s got a safe field in the fall and so you have to develop, you don’t really negotiate, I guess you litigate. So, it’s basically learning, and a lot of it was not just learning the ins and outs of the industry but learning how to listen. I think that’s really helped me over my career. 

TTZ: What I’m hearing from what you just said is really valuing real world experience and knowledge that turf professionals have outside of research – this is what I do every day, and this is how I dealt with this. Now, would you write it this way in a book? Maybe not, but this is the truth on the ground of what people are having to do every day and that you acknowledge and value that, I think makes an impact. 

TS: That’s so true and the thing that I always keep in mind—what that individual does on a daily basis dictates whether he or she is employed. I’m thinking to myself, even though the term “turfgrass specialist”, I get to do all kinds of things. I might work one day with a high school football coach, I might work one day with a golf course superintendent, I might work one day with marketing and communications at the University of TN deciding how to package or brand something, so even though I’m the turfgrass person in extension, I get a lot of calls. The neat thing is that the longer you’re employed, sometimes people just call me to find out who they’re supposed to call. I’m almost at times like a dispatcher. This thing called turf, people ask, “How did you….” Some of my closest friends on this earth are “Turfies”. For some reason, I don’t know whether we licked a light socket, I don’t know whether we didn’t get enough sleep one night, but we’re enamored with this population of plants called turfgrasses and we try to see what they can do or how we can influence what they do. And we stress them. So, I’ve been very fortunate to have been able to work here in an area of the US that it’s not easy to manage turf. 

TTZ: You have some interesting stories from your days of traveling across the great state of TN. So do you have any good stories you would share with us? 

TS: Oh yes. First of all, when you’re working with county extension professionals and they ask you what you want to eat, I’ve been accused of knowing where every McDonald’s is along the I-40 corridor because I traveled so much early on. So fast food is not something that I really enjoy when I’m working with the county professionals. I’ve eaten some of the best barbecue, fried green tomatoes. You know you’re at a country smorgasbord when there are fried green tomatoes, some of the best catfish. If you want good catfish, Lake County. I actually learned how Reelfoot Lake was formed up there. They actually have a fishing boat that somebody constructed specifically for using on that lake because it’s very shallow and there are a lot of Cypress knees. The first time I saw it, I thought what on earth? Jed Clampett going to New York City. I had no idea what that was. I’ve been to Hohenwald, Limestone, Red Boiling Springs…. 

TTZ: Have you been to Frog Jump or Bucksnort? 

TS: Bucksnort. You don’t want to miss Bucksnort. But in terms of stories, really there’s not one of my favorites, but I’ve got a lot. And it usually involves something that I’ve done. I’ve been stuck on sod farms at like 8pm. I’ve had to ask for somebody in a tractor to pull my UT car out.

My great friend Booker Lee, I asked him one time, I said, “Booker, I love barbecue, but I don’t want to eat at the chain barbecue restaurant. If you don’t mind, I want to eat barbecue where you eat barbecue.” He took me to a place, we parked outside. I don’t know if you’ve been in some of these rural TN, OK, AR areas, some of the older buildings would have tar paper as nan insulator, then they would have this sand-based sheeting – no boards other than the boards that were structurally involved. I looked at the outside of that building, and I thought, “Booker, are we really gonna eat inside this building? Or do you like take it to go?” It was the best barbecue I’d ever eaten. A tin roof that was rusted. And chances are if there was a three-inch rain I bet you they put some pails out. 

TTZ: How great it was to have Booker there at the conference when you gave your impromptu speech.

TS: He’s a mess. We’ve served on committees together. You learn a lot about people – sometimes at the university we really do, we get things done on the committee level, but have you ever been sitting in a meeting and wondering, “Why am I here?” Sometimes I’m thinking, “I should be eating right now!” We’ve thoroughly discussed several issues, but he’s been a great friend.

TTZ: Alright, let’s try your hand at prophecy. We’ve talked about your career at a broad angle. You’re passing the torch and you’re going to enjoy a lovely retirement, as you mentioned, going wherever your wife wants to go, right? Let’s look forward. I think industry-wide, there’s a lot of big challenges to overcome right now with labor and regulation, there’s a lot but I feel like you, the TN turf team, other researchers are really working to help the industry on those levels. What do you see coming down the pipeline and what do you hope to see when this next generation of leaders comes up? 

TS: Thank goodness I understand that I may be able to pass the torch. With the economics as they are right now, we feel very fortunate in the Plant Sciences Department to be able to fill a position such as mine. Whenever anyone leaves, that’s an opportunity for the University to make a change in terms of what direction that may need to be taken because there are opportunities that we can’t respond to because we’re full up, we don’t have lab space, we don’t have an opportunity open. So sometimes a position that is closed as a result of retirement, there’s no guarantee that it will be filled. I’m so happy, I’m aware that that’s not going to happen in the case of the turf extension position. I can almost guarantee you that it’s going to change. This is what’s interesting, at a university, we think in terms of research, extension and teaching. But the turf team, we all share in that. I’ve guest lectured, and years ago I taught in the classroom, and I thoroughly loved it. I haven’t done formal research, but I’ve had some input in terms of what direction some of this has taken, or maybe at least made Drs. Sorochan, Brosnan or Horvath aware. But we don’t necessarily as a team have these hard lines, you do the “E”, I’ll do the “R” and then Horvath does the “T”. We don’t necessarily work like that, and I think that’s our strength. I also think our strength is that we’re collegial and we like working with other universities.

In fact, some of the colleagues that we work with are some of the former students that are now at universities. Sometimes that can become a problem that it’s almost like, if I was a leader, I would not want to have a group of advisors that thought like I did. I love the diversity, I’ve met people here at UT from Iraq, India, the Philippines, from all over the world and that’s a lot of fun just to get to know those cultures and be introduced to some of the cultural differences. I think that’s what will continue to make us stronger is to identify people that we want to work with that have a skillset that will let us advance a new technology. Discovery – when you think of a university, I think of discovery, that’s the fun part. Something that’s brand new.

Conceptually, if we know this is working on a small scale, how do we get it to a golf course with 160 acres? Who would have thought that – like the drone, this unmanned, aerial vehicle—that we could use that to identify areas on the golf course that we have an irrigation leak. Or even satellite-aided fertilization. Think about these things that have occurred. I would have never thought that I’m going to be able to in the year 2022, go online and get a virtual tour of a golf course, by hole, and never have played it. So, I don’t know where the next major advancement’s going to be, but hopefully it’s going to be as a result of communications from the industry professionals in terms of what we need or somebody saying, “You know what, if we could adapt…”

Sometimes the nice thing is we have the opportunity to interact with engineers, medical professionals. Dr. Sorochan’s work with the Center for Athletic Field Safety and Dr. Dickson’s work. They’re working with physicists, with people that know bones and structure and skeletons and forces. That’s where I think we have an advantage as a university is to reach across out of the office, maybe even across campuses or across states to identify people that have a common interest and can help advance some level of technology or some aspect of safety or something that’s of value to the population across the US. That’s fairly broad. We can narrow it to turf, but I never thought I’d see a better bermudagrass than the old Tifway, that was found in a seed lot from Africa and Dr. Glen Burton at Tifton, Georgia found it and it didn’t come out of a conventional breeding program, he noticed the chromosomes are different. So, all of a sudden this variety that’s been a fantastic bermudagrass variety since the 1950s, that was because somebody was astute and recognized that there’s something going on here that I need to investigate. So, some of our best varieties have been mutants, some have been the direct development out of breeding programs at universities and at other companies, but the reality is we have to remain sharp as industry professionals.

Burnout is definitely problematic. Our industry, we get fatigued and our country extension agents, they have so much on their plates. I’ve learned over the years, don’t visit a county during their fair week. They’re in the office, but not really. They had like a heifer show last night at the fair. What I really enjoy and what I’ve learned – inventions in many cases have been invented by people who were extremely tired. 

TTZ: What is the quote? “Necessity is the mother of invention…” 

TS: Yeah, I think it is. What I really hope is the university will continue to be in a position to be responsive to the industry. I’m prejudicial, but I work with what I consider to be the best industry in TN, but the reality is I think it’s all about communication, but then also it’s about funding. In order to make something happen, you have to be able to promote it. You have to maybe have a prototype, you have to have an idea, a concept. Then you have to have finances such that that can support the advancement of whatever it is. I would be terrible at fundraising. But John Sorochan, he’s my guy.

What I love so much about my job is that there are so many different things I can do, I do have the ability to pretty much do what I want to do now. And what I’ve learned, the older you get, the more you can get away with. My dad told me that a long time ago. What he must have been like when he was younger. He’s crossed the line several times, in my view as his son.

TTZ: We’ll shift out of work mode… after a long and successful and distinguished career, tell me what your first day of retirement looks like? 

TS: I have no earthly idea. I thought you were going to ask me what I’m proudest of. And it’s so corny, but the reality is the best thing that ever happened to me was my wife and my kids. And I rarely speak about my family. That’s really what I’m proudest of and there were times when – and I’m not sad about it because it was part of the job, but – I was writing publications at 3 in the morning on a Saturday morning. Because I wanted to spend quality time with the kids, but I had to produce to be able to stay employed. It’s just this thing called tenure and tenure track and advancing and representing the university. So, it sounds corny, but they’re what I’m most proud of, my family. So, in terms of what Day 1 looks like after retirement, I’ll have to keep you posted. Are you a planner? If you take a trip, do you know when you’re going to stop to eat lunch at 11:47 on Tuesday? 

TTZ: I don’t know if I’m that degree of planner, but probably not. 

TS: I’m not either. 

TTZ: Well, after a career of having to have a lot of structure, maybe that’s a fantastic way to go into retirement: I have no plans and I’m going to do whatever I want at any moment. 

TS: I’ve got so many things I’ve gotta do in terms of – people say it’s the “honey-do” list – no, it’s my list as well. There’s so many – paint some rooms, enclose a garage – so many things I want to do, but I have to learn. Like you said, “now all of a sudden I’m just this editor and all around marketing person, and I don’t know anything about turf” – now I don’t know anything about… one thing I do know is I don’t want to hang drywall with my wife. That’s probably not on the list…. Or wallpaper. But there are some things I want to do. Of course also landscaping, but I’ve got several hobbies. I kid everybody, my first week I’m going to do some serious fishing. Probably from the bank.

You know what else I want to do, I want to go to Huntsville and do some strange things—I remember taking the kids to the Aerospace museum in Huntsville – don’t they still have a weightless room? I think if you take the summer camp… I want to be weightless. And believe it or not, I want to jump out of a plane with a parachute buddy. I’m not much on hit and roll. I used to rock and I used to roll. Now I’m like a bad rotisserie. I’m like a broken cam in a motor. 90 degrees, then 90 degrees back.

Then I’ve got a great friend that actually, he flies air balloons. So I’m going up with him. I’m going to do some crazy stuff. I’ve had a great life, if I have an accident, so be it. I don’t recover as well as I used to, but I want to do the crazy stuff. I don’t want to bungee jump. I’ll share this with you and then we can probably wrap this up, a good friend of mine, years ago, Andy Brennan. Shelia Finney used to work for Andy. I met her first at what was Opryland Golf Course then it became Gaylord Springs, now it’s something else, but Andy decided he was going to go bungee jump. He went to one of those scientific deals, he said they measure your height, they weight you and then they ask you, “head first or feet first?” He said the big question is, do you want just your fingers to touch the water, or do you want to go in to the wrist or to the elbow. And so he did it.  He said it was fantastic except he didn’t read the fine print… the first time it’s awesome, particularly if you survive, and you scream because you’re so happy and then you get saliva all over your face and then you realize, hey you’re going up and coming back down, up and down… then they pick you up in a boat. You don’t think about it. You don’t think about he post-major event. When you bungee jump, you don’t think about it being like being on a yoyo.

TTZ: There’s a life analogy in here somewhere. I’m going to have to ponder it for a bit, but it sounds terrible. 

TS: Oh no, to hear him tell it… I laughed til I cried. He’s very calculating, I think he was a historian actually, too. I want to get out there and do some strange things now. I want to do some things that my Dean might not appreciate me doing. “Tom, you’re not representing the University of Tennessee”. No, Dean, I’m not! I’m jumping out of this perfectly good airplane. I want to fly in a glider. I’m free! 

TTZ: I’m going to hold you to your, I don’t know if it was a promise or a passing comment, that you would still send me the articles, and when you do, I’m going to expect to hear all the wild and crazy things you’re doing. 

TS: Believe me, Jakubowski and I have got some plans.

TTZ: I’m maybe going to need to be your documentarian when you and Brad get out…

TS: He’s like the brother I never had, although I’m the older brother. Thank you so much, I totally enjoyed this. One last thing… One of the weirdest things, like on day one, and I don’t know if you’ve ever talked to anybody about this. You’re a lowly graduate student, you’ve been writing on a dissertation, they’ve been editing, they tell you you can’t write, they go through a thesis defense or a dissertation defense and they make you feel like you don’t know anything. Because it’s part of the process. So day one, I’m at the University of TN. Don’t have an assigned office yet, so I’m in behind a common area where I have a phone and I’ve got one of these old Radio Shack SR80 printers, and every time it starts to print, it sounds like a jet warming up. It was huge. I get my first call – “Doctor Samples, you have a call.” The first time I was called Dr. Samples, it’s like, “wait a minute, I think they mean ME.” That’s now naïve I was. It’s been one fun ride, I’ve had a ball.

TTZ: Don’t miss an episode of TN Turfgrass. Subscribe at Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also visit us at TheTurfZone.com.

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