Love Relationship & Sexuality Sampler
(S5 | E178)

[Tessa] In this sampler episode of Open Nesters, Tessa and Amir explore how couples can rekindle intimacy and redefine relationships as children leave home, sharing strategies and real-life insights for navigating this transformative phase. It’s a Love Relationship & Sexuality Sampler.

Relationships, Love and Sexuality

In this special sampler episode of the Open Nesters podcast, we take a reflective journey through our four seasons, focusing on the most impactful themes that resonate with our listeners — relationships, love, and sexuality. As Tessa and Amir, we dive into the transformative phase of life when children leave the nest, urging couples to rekindle their connections and explore the evolving dynamics of intimacy.

Time Code

4:44 Couples Therapy and Open Nesting
11:25 Exploring Kink and Connection
17:48 Navigating Divorce and Co-Parenting
21:19 Love and Relationships in Act 3
26:02 Conclusion and Future Episodes







































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Drawing on insights from renowned voices in this space, we emphasize the significance of prioritizing our relationships as we transition into this new chapter, often termed “Act 3.” We acknowledge that the years dedicated to raising children often eclipse the relationship we have with our partner, leading to a rediscovery of desires and new opportunities for connection. Our conversations encourage reflection on how couples can thrive and embrace this period for personal growth and reinvention, rather than viewing it solely as a goodbye to the past.

This episode features curated snippets from our most cherished conversations. We discuss practical strategies for rekindling passion and exploring intimacy, whether monogamous or non-monogamous.

Highlighting the ongoing dialogue around aging and sexuality, we tackle the taboos that often accompany these subjects, particularly for women, and celebrate the journey of loving our mature selves.

Furthermore, we emphasize the crucial role of communication in fostering a vibrant partnership, showcasing various approaches to ensure that both partners feel heard and valued.

Real-life accounts from couples provide a rich tapestry of experiences that resonate with the realities of our audience. We hear from experts who share invaluable tips on navigating intimacy and the powerful language of consent, drawing insights from diverse lifestyles that span from traditional monogamy to the realms of polyamory and relationship anarchy. Each story illuminates the paths couples can take, paving the way for a deeper understanding of themselves and their partners.

As we touch upon themes of growth through challenges such as divorce, the importance of redefining relationships becomes even more apparent. Our guests share their journeys of transformation, revealing how maintaining connections — even post-separation — can lead to fulfilling co-parenting and romantic partnerships. We explore the concept of creating new relationship dynamics and boundaries, showing that love can evolve in unexpected and beautiful ways.

We invite listeners to reflect on their own relationship stories, whether embarking on new romantic ventures or seeking to deepen existing bonds. Engaging with our community, we encourage open dialogue about desires, boundaries, and the richness of emotional connection. The conversations span various personal insights and expert recommendations, such as expanding the definition of what intimacy can mean as we age, and learning to embrace the evolving landscape of pleasure and connection.

This sampler serves as a portal into a world where love, romance, and sexuality flourish at every stage of life, reminding us that as we age, the capacity for passion and profound connections only grows. We urge listeners to explore our extensive library of past episodes where these topics are discussed in depth, offering fresh perspectives on how to navigate this dynamic phase of life.

Our Fifth Season

Join us as we embark on our fifth season, diving deeper into the nuances of love and relationships. We encourage our audience to connect with us and share their thoughts and experiences, fostering a community that thrives on open conversations about living fully in these vital years. Let’s explore how to create a meaningful, exciting journey through love and intimacy, even as we confidently step into new chapters of life.

Full Transcript

[0:12] Hi, this is Tessa. And this is Amir. And we’re so excited to bring you this special sampler episode of the Open Nesters podcast.

[0:20] Over the past four seasons of our podcast, we realized that the most popular episode were about relationship. That is the main reason we were ranked in the top 15 relationship podcast in the country. You know, Amir, that Esther Perel always says, the quality of our relationships determines the quality of our lives. And that’s why this category includes love, romance, sexuality for individuals and couples, as well as our sensuality, our evolving sexual aging as we enter Act 3 of our lives. You know, Tessa, we talk about it so many times. This stage of life, when the kids left the nest, couples really face a big, big transition. One that really calls for a fresh look at their relationship and, I guess, desires and all the opportunities ahead. Right. It’s time to focus on ourselves again and how we communicate and how we become self-expressed and the possibilities that Act 3 offers us in a way of reinvention and where we can actually flourish in surprising and fun ways. You know, for so many of us, many years have spent raising children.

[1:38] We pour our love to them, devotion. That often, everything is centered about the kids’ needs, right? Right. So that’s why this stage is so important around relationships. What are we doing to create something that’s more vibrant in our lives, more fulfilling and authentic to who we are now and not just who we’ve been? So, that’s why Tessa and I thought about providing you a simpler episode that dives into…

[2:07] The guts to the hearts of this transitional phase. And we’re really going to give you some snippets from some of our most popular and compelling episode. So together, we’re going to explore how you can reignite passion and connection, how couples can rediscover their attraction to one another and rekindle the spark that brought them together for the first place, right? And that could be navigating all this intimacy and deepening intimacy, whether it’s monogamous or non-monogamous, as we kind of expand who we are. And a big, big subject matter of our episodes were sexuality and aging, you know, especially for women, Tessa. Well, we have to break a lot of the taboos and celebrate our lives and our desires and allow ourselves to slow down and be so much more accepting of how we feel things. And as we age, I feel it’s such an important area for us to actually love that side of ourselves even more.

[3:12] And you know, there are some other episodes that tell us how couples have built stronger communication and provide some practical tips for fostering honest and open conversation and communication for their needs and boundaries. And so interesting about boundaries, because you can discuss that even more. But a lot of that consent language came from the kink world, and yet there are all these alternative lifestyles that we’ve been learning about, exploring how pleasure and connection and unconventional paths kind of brace us for how we make choices about our erotic themes. Yes. So this is less about what we think and what our lifestyle is, and more from the experts and the couples we bring you on these episodes. You know, we all go through a lot of change. Divorce, reinvention is a tough one. And we do discuss this in a way that we share highlights of how people have embraced what they are going through, including the challenges and choices they’ve made. But there’s so much incredible growth that people talk about what they experience while they go through that. And whether you are just a brand new open nester or a veteran open nester.

[4:26] This sampler episode will introduce you to the episodes that may be more relevant to your situation and lifestyle. So if you’re on the road or you want to just grab a cup of coffee or tea or glass of wine, settle in and explore with us how to thrive in love,

[4:41] romance, and sexuality as open nesters. Listen to Robin Vogel from episode 160.

[4:49] Music.

[4:54] That people come to couples therapy at two main junctures in their lives. And one of them is when the kids are moving out, growing up, moving out, moving on, and they’re becoming empty nesters or open nesters, and they haven’t looked at each other in years. You know, for those listening that are parents, you know how easy it is to just put all of our attention on our children. I did the same thing. And next thing you know, you’re like, oh, who’s that guy in the other room? Or, you know, who’s that woman? And so much has changed over time, you know, because we’re all growing, hopefully, you know, as our kids grow. And so it’s a very common time for people to come to see a couple’s therapist. So many, many, many couples that came through the doors were open nesters. One of the extras, because I also have a background in Tantra. So my background is pretty eclectic and unique. I have, you know, I’m a psychotherapist. I’ve studied tantra for years and years, yoga, meditation.

[5:57] One of the things I would have couples do in the very beginning is like, take a breath and look at each other, eye contact face to face, because people stop looking at each other. And once you look at each other and are able to, and it’s not that easy all the time, but if you are able to eventually drop in to your body, to your heart, soften your face, soften your gaze, like stop holding all the tension in the body. There’s this opening that happens.

[6:23] Here’s a way that Carrie and Steve Cardinal in episode 112 cast their spell to become beloved. Thing that’s been really fun for us, like using things that are nearby to make moments more fun, like have the playlist going when we make dinner and, you know, light the candles because why not? They’re sitting there anyway and you know just to kind of take little day-to-day moments and make them more playful and make them more fun and so I’ve been around the entertainment industry my whole life and the entertainment industry they cast a spell all the time you go to Disneyland and they cast a spell you go to the market and they cast a spell because that’s just what we’re used to and that’s just something that’s been ingrained in me and I bring to Carrie of and i And she, you know, completely embraces it because you could have a partner who would just put their hands up and go, no, I don’t want to cast a spell. I don’t want to put on the candles. I don’t want to go for a drive at eight o’clock at night and check out the, you know, the Christmas lights around the area. But once you cast a spell, I think people will hitch with their breath and go, that was awesome. Yeah.

[7:34] Throughout our many Open Nesters episodes, we have interviewed couples that develop their own great communication styles. You can certainly develop your own. Here is one by Sujay and Joe.

[7:47] Teaching one of their practices on episode 146. One that we do in that is a fear and desire practice where you take turns asking each other, what are you really afraid of? What do you really want? And why do you love me? and you do that for five minutes and then you switch and it’s this tool it’s an emotional housekeeping tool we do it we do it a lot when there’s maybe a little a little noise in the atmosphere like something’s up and I don’t even know what it is or maybe you seem a little off and let’s let’s just take a minute to drop in and feel what it is and this container these practices are scripts there’s a timer you don’t have to worry about getting bogged down into some kind of repetitive familiar argument or like five minutes now thank you now switch five minutes and thank you now switch and so that tightness is really helpful and like all good communication practices where you are able to just talk without worrying about the person coming in and defending or responding it just allows you to go deeper and kind of surprise yourself with what’s there too so i think all good communication practices have that at their core of just like letting someone talk and explore without worrying about what the response is going to be.

[9:06] Many of our listeners are divorcees and widows. And while there are so many different choices here in our lives, whether you’re a couple or an individual, ranging from enjoying your sexuality in new ways to living apart or together, there are so many ways and styles to grow your intimacy, even not in a full partnership.

[9:27] On episode 58, Amanda Ananda, who is a Tantra expert, talks about this idea of how we can get out of our busy brains and into our bodies. We have been indoctrinated that the mind is, you know, the thing that we need to feed and build and we get paid more money with the better our minds work, right? And unfortunately, that is not true at all for relationships and sex.

[9:54] To some degree, obviously, thinking things through and being able to communicate, of course. But ultimately, the relationships is meeting in the field of the heart. And to be able to feel one another and to be present with one another and to be present, we need to get rid of our mind, basically. We need to put it in the backseat of the car and we need to allow the heart to take the lead. And so tantra is an amazing practice that supports us in coming into our body, coming into more of our sensation, coming into more of what our heart feels. And as Anne Moore of episode 172 so excitedly explains to us, we could stay juicy as we grow older in our sexual beings. I work a lot with empty nester couples. And a lot of what I encourage is for sex as we age to look at expanding your definition of sex. So the erotic blueprints are a really good way to do that. That’s one of the modalities that I use. It just expands the definition of sex. Look at changing your polarity in giving and receiving, especially for cis-hetero couples. It’s so often that the man is the designated giver and the woman is the designated receiver. And, um.

[11:07] Switch that up. What happens if the woman becomes the powerful giver and maybe even the penetrator? Anal sex. I’m always introducing anal sex. Like, what if we do that?

[11:17] Because it just opens this whole world of power play and being in a really different

[11:24] relationship with each other. That creates novelty all by itself. Wow. And kink, going big into kink. And for me… So which kinds of kink do you help people find their kink? Yeah, well, I’m a lot about shibari. I love shibari and rope bondage because it can be used in so many different ways. Like how? Oh, my goodness. So first of all, just being bound is a deeply down-regulating experience for most bodies. It’s like swaddling a baby in a way. And so just the discovery that, oh, my gosh, if I’m wrapped with ropes, I actually don’t feel trapped. I feel held. I feel loved. I feel really calm. So just that. And then it can be used as a sensual tool. It can be used to explore the places where we do feel trapped. It can be used in just really fun kinky power play of domination and submission and playing out all our shadow stuff it’s like oh i have you tied up what do I want to do with your body now or gosh I’m all tied up now I have to receive the pleasure because I can’t i just can’t do anything about it all these things you just gave us so much to think about in two in one minute.

[12:43] So it’s so great. And I’ll add that as an older woman stepping into my dom, I did not actually recognize that this is almost as much of a fetish in our society as is like the silver fox, like an older woman domed.

[13:00] Femdom is so in demand i have so many younger men approaching me it’s so fun women develop trust when a man holds safe space for them no matter what the sexual relationship is as described by mike from episode 54 that men and women can actually start to go down this path of being very connected in their lovemaking is that they take on the archetypes. And the archetypes would be, so Lori, I regard her as the goddess. When we’re making love, she is the goddess to me. And to her, I am the shaman. I’m the one that’s holding the space. I’m the one that’s creating the magic and being present and holding safety for her and taking her along on this ride that her body wants me to take her on. What we actually learned along the journey is that we can’t really define the sexuality the way we did when we were younger. And we learned that we don’t have to take society’s definition of what love and sexuality look like, even in the most obvious ways, as Barbara Carellis explains on episode 18. But a lot of people need to give up this penis and vagina a sex as the only way to have sex. And if it’s not working, we don’t have a sex life. Give it up. That is one way to have sex out of thousands.

[14:28] Just give it up. In fact, stop doing it. If it’s not fun, stop doing it.

[14:34] Because you’ve probably done that for 30 years. You’re bored. Who wouldn’t be? During the four years of the Open Nesters podcast, we have interviewed so many experts on the topics of relationships. Dr. Tommy Nelson was one of them. She’s a world-renowned sex therapist and author of the book Open Monogamy.

[14:57] Hear her thoughts about monogamy from episode 57. That monogamy is not synonymous with morality. You know, it’s not like, okay, if I never sleep with anyone else, then we have, we’ve obeyed our promise to each other. The promise is really that we’re going to be really honest. And that’s what gives our relationship integrity. That’s the promise. So that in that way, you don’t have to trade your partner in for someone else. You know, like maybe there’s nothing wrong with your relationship. If there’s something difficult, maybe it’s the agreement that has to be changed, not your partner that has to be changed. As we age, we realize that we do have a choice of the way we frame our relationships and the boundaries we create and the way we want to make choices in our relationships. Here’s a couple, and Seth of that couple talks about his reframing on episode 49. Yeah. And I think some of that reframing is figuring out what is it that’s real here that’s truly important? And what is it that we’re kind of arbitrarily putting into things? The expectations that we put in there because, well, we see other people do it. We saw our parents do it. And therefore, that’s the way relationships are supposed to be.

[16:12] So we throw in these rules and then get disappointed and resentful when other people don’t meet them without really understanding what the rules we’re actually doing to begin with. Tessa, I don’t think that it’s always possible to reframe and create rules for every relationship. Right. Sometimes people do break up, and that is why gray divorce is one of the highest rates of divorce in the United States, is when people get older, they have to figure out the best way to do that. And Robin Vogel, actually from episode 160, does discuss a really interesting way to not have a complete breakdown. Restraint, a lot of, like I said, contraction, a lot of holding in of feelings and tension. And so my entire life has been slowly but surely opening, opening, opening to a much, much, much, much greater perspective, much broader perspective.

[17:09] Much more infinite, again, perspective on life. And that included going through a marriage and a divorce. I’m so grateful for my ex-husband and the father of my two children, who are amazing. And my vision when we were separating was to stay in very good connection and communication and to create another version of our relationship.

[17:39] Now, I definitely will say like my vision was to stay a lot more connected. He definitely needed some space and time and wasn’t necessarily ready to like jump back in and, you know, be friends. But we always, always prioritized our connection and our connection with our children. And one of the really unique things that we did that people find interesting and very different is that we were in therapy, getting support, obviously, when the marriage was starting to get shaky. And we stayed with those therapists. It was a team of two through our separation and divorce process.

[18:28] Once we got through that, we kept seeing that couple for therapy and support. And then when he met his now life partner, she joined us. And so the three of us did sessions regularly with this couple. There were five of us in the room.

[18:47] And that just, for me, that just helped create the best co-parenting relationship on the planet. Tessa, we have noticed with our guests that as they get to this open nester stage, they define and redefine the relationship. Some of them are actually staying together but living apart. Even if they’re monogamous or if they’re divorced. So here’s Vicki Larson from episode 16. I knew I didn’t really want to get married again. I didn’t see a reason to marry again. But I certainly… Want a romantic partner. I’m one of those kind of gals who enjoys that. But I don’t want him around 24-7.

[19:30] Amir and I have made our own lifestyle choices around our relationship. And we began by dipping into swinging and some then friends with benefit. And we talk about that a lot on our podcast if you want to tune into any of our episodes we did together. It certainly have been an evolving journey. And now we are in full polyamorous relationship, where Tessa and I are primary partners to each other. Renowned polyamorous author and therapist Jessica Fern of a Bible of a book, which is called Poly Secure, and she has a new one out called Poly Wise. She helped Amir and I understand attachment theory. And even though that’s too elaborate to have as a clip here. She is on episode 108, if you’d like to listen to it. And here she talks about love in all of its forms. Like the two of you are saying, you know, we are hierarchical, and I assume anyone who comes into the picture of your life knows, you know, they’re not going to get as much maybe time or attention or decision-making rights, right? They’re not going to share resources the same way.

[20:35] And then people can be completely relationship anarchy, which would be, it’s not even prioritizing romantic or sexual connections, right? There might be like, my friendships can be just or more important than a relationship that’s romantic or sexual, right?

[20:51] Relationship fluidity also can go through all different kinds of, you know, labels and styles. But yeah, a lot of people practice non-hierarchical polyamory, which is sort of saying that everyone has sort of an equal seat at the table.

[21:08] Steve and Shane, from an upcoming episode, 179, discussed their relationship late in life.

[21:15] And relationship and first love can happen in Act 3, right? Even if it’s not first love, the idea that love happens again, and that dating is not as dismal as we have to make it, and they’re even long distance. So anything is possible when you listen to this. So there’s moments where I can get into my neurotic self, you know, but I really trust that Steve’s not trying to get away from me and had this weird belief as that started as a teenager that people don’t want to give me what I want and that I’m going to have to like manipulate or say it in a certain way or pick the perfect moment. And that doesn’t exist anymore. And also the feeling of being rejected, like we’re present the whole way. So it’s not like I have this one moment to ask for what I want. I truly loved CJ and Linwood when we interview them, especially when they talk about their pleasure span on episode 170. I just married him last year. We’re later in life. And I’m not ready to let that go. And I don’t like the idea. I found myself thinking like, okay, I have like X number of years.

[22:29] And I realized that’s like really manifesting something. And I don’t want to do that. I want to think about it in terms of the possibilities of more. I want more. So what can I do to get myself more? And that has to do with health. That has to do with how good I feel in my body and how good he feels, of course. But like, how can we contribute to our health in a way that extends our pleasure span? And for me, what my vision is, is us together at an advanced age, still having hot sex. We are always evolving, and our pleasure is evolving. So I love the idea of that pleasure spans so much, and being in my body about what is possible rather than what’s not possible. And Alison Moon, one of our incredible experts on sexuality with Reed Mihalko, we’re on episode 53, and she talks about the unfolding. I just love both of them, and specifically Alison. She’s such a good speaker, presenter, and she explained it so articulately.

[23:47] I think a lot of us, we find an identity that works for us or we find a partner that works for us. And then we kind of stake it in and we dig in deep and then we stay there for our lives. And we often don’t give ourselves permission to kind of be in a constant state of unfolding. And I think one of the beautiful things about, I mean, should we all be so lucky as to age, right? And that is a privilege denied to many.

[24:10] Those of us who are able to get to a place where we are finding new things about our sexuality and how our bodies change and how pleasure changes through us, particularly those of us who have uteruses, like our hormones shift so dramatically throughout our lives, that we might not only find that we desire things differently, but pleasure feels different. And Anne Moore on episode 172 talks about being an embodied older woman and growing older, and she softens her body in a way that is so beautiful. It’s not about saying, Hey, I’m still hot, even though it’s not that it’s, um, for me, it’s finding tenderness for the places in me that still want to judge and recognizing that it’s not mine. Like I, that’s been handed to me daily for my whole life. So being really tender and compassionate with that part that says I’m not enough. And then also to that it’s the acceptance of I am changing. Things look different. Things behave differently in my body every day. And that’s meant to happen. It’s not a wrong thing to be aging, to be considering even mortality. It’s not a wrong thing. it’s part of the big cycle I’m doing it right I’m doing it right.

[25:37] By seeing the way that gravity is showing up in my body that I’m softening that I’m moving toward the earth um.

[25:48] And celebrating, for me, the place I go to help with that, it’s hard to do it when I’m just in my own individual experience of being a human in this body. And what helps me a lot is getting out in nature.

[26:02] This is just a small sampler of our beautiful episodes. I think 83 that we counted on the topics of love, romance, and sexuality. And specifically, we also wanted to touch on our aging sexuality in this time. We want to invite you to visit our website, theopenesters.com. That’s double N in the middle, S at the end. Explore the many episodes of Love and Romance and the other categories that we have. There’s so many easy ways to do that. If you go to the website and you go to the Listen pulldown because you could see all the categories. So you’d be able to go right to Love and Sexuality if it interests you. Or there’s aging and grief. There’s all kinds of hobbies and passions and travel. So you can really look at all and a lot of interviews around adult kids. As Open Nesters, I invite you to explore the many ways that we build relationships and create new openings for ourselves at this wonderful, vital stage of life.

[27:03] We are so excited about the upcoming season and I hope that you will join us as a subscriber. So please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you know of other Open Nesters that are doing interesting things in Act 3, please send them our way to interview them on our podcast. And if you have other topics that you’d like to hear about, feel free to get on our Instagram or Facebook page and talk about it or write to me at Tessa at theopennesters.com and continue to share these podcasts with your friends because we thank you so much for helping us grow. Until next time, this is Amir. And this is Tessa.

[27:40] Music. You have been listening to the Open Nestor’s Podcast, a production of Kiwi Publishing and Media. Executive Producer, Tessa Krone. Music by Yoni Avi Battat. Audio Engineering by Lucid Sound. Web Design and Blogs, PJ Ewing.

[27:40] And we will see you during Season 5 of the Open Nestor Podcast. Ciao.

[28:13] Music. episode and guest, please visit us at theopennesters.com. For questions or to be a guest on our podcast, email Tessa at theopennesters.com.

[28:14] This podcast is available on all podcast platforms.

Resources for You

We want to provide you with support and many many resources for your own Open Nesting Journey. Our resource page has so much to offer as does our private discussion group on Facebook about queerness, relationship fluidity in the empty nest, and other topics of interest:

Open Nesters Resource Page

The Open Nesters Private Facebook Group

About Tessa

Tessa Krone is the engine behind and the face of The Open Nesters.

Tessa holds an MA in Consciousness Studies and is a speaker, coach, program, and journey facilitator & leader, author and, of course, Podcaster.

Her offerings are based on her mission to help people open to their most self-expressed, loving selves. Tessa’s specialties include embodiment from all the senses and elements of our inner and outer lives, ranging from mindfulness, dance, play, and sensory exploration in nature.  If she had one superpower, it would be to help people, especially as they age, to live more open-hearted lives.

Please email Tessa to make a connection. If you like, please answer the question:

What do you need to OPEN your NEST? In your LIFE. In your BODY. In your SPIRIT. Do you need MORE…

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