Join us for this amazing 2 part podcast!

We have guest Kurtis Robinson on to discuss:

• Motivational Interviewing and change
  
• Systemic change
  
• Systems of abuse
  
• Social justice
  
• Empowerment
  

This podcast is deeply riveting and full of great, authentic and real conversations! Join us for part 1 and 2!

About Kurtis:

Kurtis S. Robinson is the current Spokane NAACP 1st Vice President and the Political Action Chair For NAACP AOWSAC,  He serves as a Smart Justice Spokane Executive Committee member, Better Health Together Board Member, and  on the board for Just Lead Washington. He was a Wildland Fire Fighter for over 11 years and has served with WA DNR and Spokane

County Fire District 10. Mr. Robinson is a Certified Peer Support, Recovery Coach, Veterans Recovery Coach and Reentry Specialist. He Identifies as a Formally Incarcerated BIPOC male with over 16 years concurrent abstinence from drugs and alcohol and is the first openly Justice Involved individual to serve as a Governor appointed Commissioner to the Criminal Justice Training Commission  for Washington State.

Hello, and welcome to the Communication Solution podcast. Today, we’ve got Casey Jackson on the line, John Gilbert, and I’m Tammy. Here at IFIOC. We love to talk communication. We love to talk motivational interviewing, and we love talking about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.

If you haven’t already checked out part one of this podcast, make sure to listen to that first. Welcome to the conversation.

John Gilbert: Hello. Hello. Again, we have a super special guest today and not that other guests aren’t special, but we just really love this individual that we have today. His name is Kurtis Robinson and welcome.

And we will be diving in, into possibly a lot of different areas today, as we were just talking about, um, Casey was helping us put up some [00:01:00] guard rails, but we are open to going into lots of places. Lots of possibilities with you today.

Casey Jackson: I I’ve got, I’ve got Kurtis. I got to jump in here for a second because there’s something that got really clarified for me as you were talking as well. And again, this is from, you know, uh, uh, privileged, Caucasian male perspective. So I know that there’s aspects of ignorance to it. What I, the thing that I’m am so aware of in your presence in the way that you show up that I know. Resonates for me wanting to learn more.

And it’s some of the core constructs in Motivational Interviewing that I just get obsessed with. And you brought up is equipoise. There is nothing that you do that generates one ounce of defense in me and everything you say is profoundly provocative. And to me, that is that’s the level of mastery of Motivational Interviewing that I, you know, when people want to get good or better or proficient or exceptional or mastery of [00:02:00] motivational interviewing.

Most of the time we’ll get into kind of Socratic method or we’ll get into, um, how can you be provocative and not have, um, and you have mastered in your presence and the work you’ve done, whatever work you’ve done. And I don’t know the work you’ve done for yourself. You have mastered it in a way that nearly everything that comes out of your mouth when you’re in front of a group is provocative and not one single thing is confrontive.

Like it is it’s disarming. It is thought provoking. I just had this, my brain always works in pictures. It’s like this invitation into this cave of crystals that is incredibly treacherous. Um, so it’s like, well, God, of course, I want to go into, look at all these, these crystals inside of here, and you can do damage to yourself and others.

If you’re not paying attention. Well, I can’t stand at the cave entrance and go, I don’t want to come in. Kurtis just stands there and says, Hey, if you want to walk into this world, well, [00:03:00] there are amazing things you can’t even comprehend. And, and, and there’ll be very, very clear. There are some treacherous things that can do significant damage to if you’re not watching every step along the way.

And that’s the invitation I felt in conversations with Kurtis is like this. It is beyond wonder. It is, it is humbling, um, and awe inspiring.. And it realizes, I realize how small and unaware I am when I’m in that, that, uh, kind of cave of wonder. And that that’s, I think that, that for me, just kind of summarizes, um, the things that I think you embody about what I think of beyond am I, the context of it is this, that fine line.

You were just talking about that tight rope that you walk is being profoundly provocative and never being confrontive.. Like I never feel. Like it. Yeah. But in my brain and thinking about top topics of power and privilege, we’re talking about white supremacy and we’re talking about [00:04:00] all these different issues, our brains, that whole, um, oh my gosh.

Um, um, how to become an anti-racist. Yeah. Every one of those things that just generates that. Yeah, but yeah, but, uh, uh, yeah, but, uh, that just doesn’t get generated. And for me, that is where the depth of learning and, and self-reflection comes from when we talk Motivational Interviewing, is what, I’m not on the defense, then I’m open for change.

I mean, that is the core crux of motivational interviewing it’s I’m not on the defense,. If I’m not in resistance, talk, if I’m not in sustained talk. And in that moment is where our values, we can, we can elevate our values. And I think that is, I think that is the invaluable interactions that, that I experienced when I listened to you in these groups, speak, because it is, that’s why I’ll keep going back to is it is profound and is profoundly provocative. The [00:05:00] things that you talk about and not one thing generates an ounce of, reactivity inside of me, it’s just like, oh my gosh, it just uncovers layers and peels back, very painful pieces of skin, which helps me understand other people’s experience as, as, as layers of my skin get peeled back and it hurts.

It gives me more perspective and other people’s experiences, just a mode of come of, of awareness of that. So I just had to share all that because it was just like, boom, boom. As you were talking, I was just getting infiltrated with like a hundred thoughts about just the, why I just appreciate the interactions that I I’m allowed to have with you

Kurtis Robinson: Casey, I, I just, I mean, you know, as in, how do you talk about being humble and not sound arrogant? Right. All I’m trying to it’s like, I haven’t figured that one out yet. So I feel really, uh, uh, touched, uh, at a very deep, emotional level where I, the only feeling that I can, the way that I can articulate is it makes me feel like kind of humble.

Yeah. [00:06:00] Um, and not trying to say again, I think not trying to sound arrogant about, you know, while now I’m, I’m so humble. I’m so humble, you know, (laughing) but, uh, you know, the, the, um, because my, my experience is when I’m in space with you and John, I have a similar experience. It’s like, wow, these guys are laying it down.

These guys are bringing the real, uh, just, you know, and it just inspires me to like engage and come alongside you and be in there with you because there’s like their stuff like coming out. It’s like, oh, that’s a nugget. Oh, there’s another one. Hey, let’s take a minute. Let’s touch on that. You know, let’s follow that a little bit.

Let’s let’s. You know, let’s take the, uh, uh, what does that, uh, uh, Phil Nye, the science guy, let’s take that wall and expand it a little bit. Know, let’s look at it. Let’s go into that cave of wonders. It, watch your step and you know, and continue to like, yeah, it’s, it’s dangerous and beautiful at the same time.

Welcome. [00:07:00] Right. And so to kind of circle back, John, on what you asked you to what were, what, what I saw in this work after a period of time was like, well, I mean, I obviously saw the real problems yet. I had to approach it in a way it’s like, if all up, because I’ve already had a lifetime of like pointing out everybody’s flaws, Right.

And all that did was just poison the poison that was already in me. Right. It just added more to it. And it’s like, no, I mean, and that, that made me not, that made me not want to be alive. I had several suicide attempts as a human being and one of them very successful. Right. It’s a miracle I’m here today.

And so. Uh, I realized that as I approached life now that when I come down off the mountain could complain about it. You’re right. You know, thank you. And what are you going to do? And so I had to come at it from a different way, and that meant to re-engage my [00:08:00] opportunity to learn and grow as a human being and to be willing to surrender my idea of, uh, you know, uh, world paradigms, uh, uh, societal paradigms, personal paradigms, right. And just let all that go and retrain. And that’s what led to that, to that thing about, okay. Now if I’m doing that, that means I’m going to be consistently doing that. Um, that’s my life now, . Is that I get to do a work around me and do a work in me and many of it at the same time as, I’m swatting and darts and Dodge and swords and surfing through a tsunami, dodging sharks and landmines, right?

I mean, that’s what it’s felt like sometimes. So with that, what I saw at least in the social justice arena was that there were these pieces that, um, service providers and people engaged in the work have gotten that. Everybody kinda like had a piece of the puzzle, [00:09:00] right. At least at the scope that I could, conceptualize at this time, at that time.

Right. And that, again, it’s nonlinear. So it’s, you know, process, um, As I, as I, as I saw what those words like, well, I saw Motivational Interviewing and all you hear are these trauma-informed was happening over here. Um, social awareness over here, racial awareness over here, and is anybody putting the, the, the pie together.

Right. And then I thought about that then I thought about, okay, so I’m putting the pie together, but. What about the fact that how this ever got started, where all this stuff was siloed in section and section down in the first place? I was like, oh, that’s systemic. Oh, that’s part of the thing. And okay, so now put them all together, but now I’m still coming at this population.

Oh, what population of human beings? Right. Uh, that I’m [00:10:00] still coming at them. If I just put all this together and say, you need to learn this right, I’m going to do this to you. I’m still, I’m super, Pecha waiting the same power dynamics that I’m complaining about and trying to address. Yes.

The most, most important piece. What about the people who have been harmed by this? Aren’t they, the ones that deserve this knowledge first and foremost, in a loving, caring, humanizing patient and hopeful way. Right. And when I talk about that, I’m not talking about, I’m not trying to empower people. I’m cause I’m not trying to empower people.

I’m trying to help them wake up to the fact that they already are. And that, that there’s been something set up in them, and programming that’s occurred in them that they’ve been exposed to 11 million bits per second, that has convinced them that they don’t have that power. Right.

Tami Calais: I love that, oh my gosh.

Sorry, that is really…moved me..

Casey Jackson: Yes. [00:11:00] Yes. Yes.

John Gilbert: Preach brother, you, you are in the zone, man, and it just it’s for those that didn’t see, Tammy was doing an incredibly inspired dance after off to the side, but keep going Kurt, and of how that brought you to bring the pie together. You’re you’re just, you’re helping people discover the empowerment they already have within them, by giving them this pie of awareness. And then with that, you create this, uh, I don’t know what you call it, a program, a recurring program. It sounds like.

Casey Jackson: I need to, I need to stop for a second because I need to reiterate, because I don’t know if people picked up really what Curtis was talking.

I mean, the vibe of it a hundred percent, but I want to drop it into real time when he’s talking about. What he’s saying is he’s pulling together people that are extremely knowledgeable in trauma, informed people that are [00:12:00] knowledgeable and social justice. People are knowledgeable and racial justice, people that are knowledgeable in Motivational Interviewing those pieces of the pie.

He’s bringing them into the room with people that are formerly incarcerated. And what I can tell you, having participated and listened to some of the speakers is this is beyond a PhD class. Like to sit there and listen to the experts and the wisdom that is broadened that room is like a PhD level class, which the majority of people, especially in privileged and systems would say, that’s a waste of resource with that population.

Give that to our administrators, give that to our supervisors, give that to our workers. Why are the hell are you giving to people that have been formerly incarcerated? They don’t have food. You know, let them work with our housing specialists. Don’t give them this knowledge. They don’t need it and they’re not, and they’re not intentionally, those individuals are not intentionally doing it to hold that information from the individuals.

It’s because that’s what Kurtis is talking about is that’s part of the systemic problem. Yes, because that’s the [00:13:00] systemic narrative. It’s not the individuals, it’s not the CEOs, that’s not the directors, the program managers, they are trying to operate from their best intention, but that best intention feeds the system.

And those are the things that Kurtis highlights and points out. And I just, I just needed to restate that because the emotion and the power and the spiritualness behind what, what Kurtis was sharing, I think in real time, people may miss out. Exactly what he’s talking about is he is trying to empower the individuals.

And again, like you said, it’s not from a place of empowerment. It’s, they’re just another human being that, that never get access to this kind of data. Yeah, they don’t, they don’t get access to this kind of wisdom or knowledge and give them have enough human respect that they’ll take what they want and leave the rest.

Just like a CEO sitting in that room would do is take what they want and leave the rest. So give these other individuals the exact same respect and let’s start from a place of where the people that could change the system are the ones that are in the system. Yeah. So [00:14:00] give them the knowledge and experience.

Kurtis Robinson: Yeah, and Casey, you know, you’re hitting on one of the things. So like Layne Pavey, right? So, um, we dealt with one of the first people I encountered in social justice, working on, was engagements with her that led to, you know, opening up these other fields that I poured myself into. And one of the first things I heard from her as those closest to the problem with closest to the solution.

Casey Jackson: Yeah, Layne is a brilliant, I just, yeah, Layne somebody I’ve done. We’ve done quite a bit of work with, with Motivational Interviewing as well too. She’s just just another phenomenal human being with her life story and how she’s navigated it. I love that. I love that quote, those closest to the problem are the closest to the solution.

Kurtis Robinson: Yeah. And that’s what, uh, that’s part of the thing that the systemic programming that we’ve been saturated with is Rob McCann with Catholic charities did in this press release is like, Hey, I’ve been swarming in this. Right. And this toxic racist, you know, oppressive water and I don’t [00:15:00] know anything other to do other than to respond to the water that I’m swimming it.

Casey Jackson: And he got so vehemently abused for that. The system would not like him owning that. So Tammy said you’re not local to Spokane. What happened is somebody high up in, in, uh, Catholic charities services, social services She’s just of it, Catholic community service. One of the highest ups made a public enough, actually in the paper and said I’m a racist.

Um, uh, because of his awareness from all the, all the exposure he was getting to understanding, um, and put it in that context, the right context, not like under a hood context, but from a, I didn’t know that I was under this.

Oh, yeah. Bold is an understatement. It was so apocalyptic. Right. And healing sense. Yes. And he, there are pockets that just [00:16:00] eviscerated him, for, for, for doing what he should have done for just being honest. Uh, he got eviscerated for being honest. We’re honest and accurate and vulnerable.

Kurtis Robinson: Yeah. And so, and with that too, like the soda, the whole weight.

So just to kind of also, kind of sew something up and kind of bring it together too is so that the trainings that we’ve, we have been able to bring to the justice involved populations for our, for our eGroup here are trauma informed, ACEs, implicit bias. Comp cultural competency and communication and Motivational Interviewing as well as a history of race in America and the criminal justice system.

And what we’ve been able to do is connect with a wonderful funder, Better Health Together. And the Spokane resource center or the resource center of [00:17:00] Spokane. I think they’ve kind of changed our name a little bit, that, um, That support these trainings, going to the justice involved populations. And we’ve been able to not only do this in a way that, you know, because here’s one of the things, right?

So I’m this disempowered human being, or at least on like agreeing with my disempowerment. I’m so spun out. I can’t even put food on the table. I’m not worried about my social empowerment right now. I’m trying to eat a survive. Right. Um, when I thought about coming into this work and one of the gaps, was not only bringing it to this population, but now how to bring right.

Because that’s also some of the key Motivational Interviewing stuff, right. It’s like, I’m not going to tell you, Hey, I hear you. I’m going to work with you and actually help, help, escort that process of you feeling hurt. Right. And that, and experiencing being heard and my experiencing actually hearing you, right. So how do I take that principle, and now [00:18:00] apply that to a population of bringing this training in and this information of this work that’s being done to them. Right. And bring it actually to them. So they only not understand what’s being done to them from that power, that power, that power giver and power receiver, service giver, and service receiver dynamic that that’s, that’s at play, but also in a way that says, Hey, this is actually what’s being done to you and what they’re, what they’re doing when they’re engaging with you from the, and I love John when you really, you know, helped synthesizes me from that compliance model dynamic wall, the while saying, Hey, we’re actually doing, we’re saying, Hey, we’re doing empowerment, but now actually you’re doing compliance and really, really sorting that one out.

And one of the ways that, that I, one of the things that I, that I knew had to happen. Okay. We need to take this information to our, to our impact of populations, um, to help them be able to start not only [00:19:00] having an awareness of what supposedly they’re being given by these service, the service givers, but also in a way that helps them understand their right to receive what they’re being told.

They’re being given. Right. And to challenge that and to advocate for themselves and to be empowered with the knowledge of how you actually take what they’re supposedly giving you and internalize it the way that you can help yourself. My gosh, right now, the other piece about that, that was missing. So sort of with this.

Now we’re expecting this impact to traumatized population justice-involved because I’m sorry, but we can only traumatized before you got into the criminal justice system. If you weren’t racialized before you got into the criminal justice system, by the time you got out, right. Right from the front end to the backend?

Yes. Okay. It’s not, it’s not set up to humanize people. [00:20:00] So, so now here, here we are here I am. Here’s our human beings. Here’s our human families have this great. At least in my mind, it’s a great piece of information to, to dispense. Yet, I’m expecting them to come to the table for a week for free. When they’re already got all this stuff, come on up.

It’s like, no, we need to, what sends the message of, I value you besides the fact of, Hey, I value them and the, my stuff, being able to listen, to understand and articulate and internalize and reflect that to you and summarize and all those great things. Right. Besides that, along with that, because there’s still another piece of that.

I value I’m going to pay you to come to the table. I’m going to feed you when you come to the table and I’m going to listen to you and I’m going to provide some information and you know, we’re going to do this. I’m taking a lot of eyes too. And their kids, I had to kinda like take it up. Cause like, Hey, nobody else was doing this.

That’s amazing within itself. So also understanding that some of the stuff, again, there’s that piece. Right? So as I’m catching myself, seeing a lot of [00:21:00] I-statements it’s like, well, actually its we..

Casey Jackson: Well, and, and Kurtis. The other thing that just struck me as we’re, as we’re trying to wrap this up, because it’s, which is impossible to do, I think what it does it, since you opened this up, um, we can bring this to a close, but since you’ve opened up this dialogue, so just in just incredibly well. I do get obsessed with semantics and I, I I’m always jotting down statements you make, because I keep thinking about what reduces resistance, what engages people in dialogue, but engages them in thinking.

And I think of the things you talked about, like justice involved, impacted populations. How do you fight back against that? How do you say yeah, but to impacted populations, you can’t, how do you say, how do you say? Yeah, but to somebody that’s justice involved. Like it’s like, well, what cause the first thing my brain does is, well, I know what it means, but it’s like, well, what does that mean justice involved?

Which means it’s curiosity. Versus even when I, cause I, you know, the, the next evolution was formerly incarcerated was much more respectful [00:22:00] than an inmate or a prisoner or, you know, so I mean the evolution of, and as soon as you hear that, the first thing you have is bias immediately. But as soon as you’re things like say like justice involvement, I think that’s why some antics and language and linguistics is so fascinating to me. When I look at it through my brain, that’s so trained towards, an Motivational Interviewing lens of what generates resistance and discord even linguistics. And the words, and I look at the evolution of language within these, um, within these paradigms of empowerment and it really is how much language can stigmatize.

I just, I, I write down so many words, you said human family. How do you argue with that? You want to help your human family? Like, you can’t argue with that, like what’s to argue with what where’s the yeah. But in, in wanting to help the human family. And it, it it’s, I think what’s so profound about that, especially in this day and age, , socially, economically, politically, racially, I think with all the things going on, it is [00:23:00] a, it’s a, it’s a it’s, you’re starting at square one at least, which is a beautiful place to start from if it’s, when you’re talking about things like the human family, because we have so many places we can go from, if we’re talking about the who, who doesn’t want to be on the human family square.

Yeah. Like who doesn’t ? I want to be on the human family square.

And so at least we have a starting place. And I think in this day and age to have a starting place to have dialogue from is profound. I think it is the holy grail that people have been searching for is where can we start, together at one place, instead of starting at opposite ends of the tug of war rope and thinking that somebody is going to win, or I’m going to pull you to my side.

I just, the linguistics that you use to me is beyond the crux of Motivational Interviewing. I mean it, but it just gets to this thing that it generates no resistance. And that, and that to me is. Such a beautiful place to start from.

John Gilbert: And to that, to that point, Casey, it’s in the context of [00:24:00] compassion and that’s what is felt from you, Kurt, that it’s like almost like sentence stems or something that in Motivational Interviewing, you can say the sentence stem, you can do the shift, but are you really intending to come across with that authentic energy of caring for that person, which can come out in all sorts of ways that can not be helpful, but the ways in which you do it Kurtis, have this compassion and intense passion in that compassion. And then you’ve worked on the creativity or the skill and or the awareness to make those shifts that help us all, be more compassionate by making those shifts in how we talk about things that we might be unconscious of that have this self-fulfilling prophecy or this bias to it. And, and there’s this compassion you bring to the table that fuels, I think we can all feel that, but then it fuels this, something that you’re able to express.

That’s [00:25:00] just so. Helpful and inspiring and impactful. And there’s, there’s just a more there. And if we put an Motivational Interviewing lens on it, I think it’s what, um, Miller and Rolnick, Dr. Miller and Dr. Rolnick are getting that in their new edition of compassion. You have this compassion about you that has other skillsets that are being put into that.

You have an awareness of tracking and sewing things together, which has its own emotional intelligence to it. That. Yeah. Especially with the background and everything and your experience you come from, it’s just super extra ordinary on so many levels. I just want to offer that for you from everything.

I’ve just got to see from my vantage point. And then in, so doing, you are now raising other people up with your, awareness and your compassion and the skillset and creativity you’ve done, which teaches us all. And then we go out and influence other people. So your ripples are incredibly profound and going to last well beyond your [00:26:00] lifetime.

So I just want to really affirm that for you, that you’re doing so much. And I do know that we got to here for today, come to wrapping up here. So we’re getting the signal for that. And I just want to say if those of you that are listening want to, or Kurtis you would like to have a followup conversation, you know, we’ll just invite that now, because there are still so many, um, practical as my biases, practical, concrete things that you do that are like, Casey, you said provocative, but that guide the conversation towards alignment.

And discovering empowerment with compassion. That’s different than being provocative to be provocative. You don’t just do empathy and just hear them. You really do also guide those conversations. So the practicality of how to do that with those that have been justice involved and the practicality of how to do that in the moment with community partners.

I’m very fascinated by, I have some theoretical understanding, but I would love to get your take on all [00:27:00] that and go deeper into all the specifics of how you do that. But for now, I’m just going to ask if there’s anything else you would like to add or any contact information, or if anyone wants to reach out to you, or if you’d like to share anything we haven’t, uh, addressed in our time today before we fully, call it, call it a day.

Kurtis Robinson: Ah, well, you just said so much. I just want to let you let you all know. And Tammy really great to meet you. Casey, John love you both so dearly, right?

 Yeah. So contact information, Kurtis Robinson, the spelling of my name. K U R T I S R O B I N S O N. Kurtis for the K Robinson. kurtisrobinson@live.com and you can also reach me on Facebook or LinkedIn, by the same spelling of my name, the core competency trainings will be taking off again.

And, uh, in February last week of January, first week of February, , we have at least four sessions planned for [00:28:00] next year. Hopefully we’re going to get some more rocking and rolling. IFIOC will be showing their marvelous presence once again, just, yeah. Excellent capacity. Right. And ability and presence, as well as the other trainers, , Chiappa Duncan with, the Spokane NAACP, uh, doing ACEs Layne Pavey, uh, doing trauma informed, Michael Reed coming in from Greece, doing cultural competency and in the greater Spokane progress, race equity training cohort, we’ll be coming in and joining us for.

Uh, the history of race in America and the criminal justice system. So it’s a week-long thing. Sign up. We’ll start normally a week or two before each session. So stay tuned on the revive center for returning citizens, um, website Facebook page. I did the time. Facebook page, uh, as well as my own personal Facebook page and informational, uh, social media accounts, uh, to go ahead and get dialed in and join us in this wonderful experience.

And just to let you know, we’re continuing to not only [00:29:00] expand this, my priority was first to bring this to our justice involved populations, but this is for everybody, right? Not these particular trainings. For this group, but we all need this and making sure that to provide an end, continue to do avenues like with a greater Spokane progress and Justice League Washington and Michella brown, go ahead and bring this to places like Spokane workforce council, uh, Spokane resource center.

Spokane treatment and recovery services, Catholic charities, just to name a few, we’re pushing it all over the place. It’s all of us doing this together because we can, we will, we must be forward together. Yes.

Casey Jackson: Oh my gosh, Kurtis, I just, I I’m ready to tackle my week, my month and actually my new year.

This was perfect. I am so teed up to just be me now a little bit better. Me always, always just, oh my gosh. I just can never, I just always value the time we have. It’s invaluable to me. I just I’m always [00:30:00] moved and changed because of your presence, Kurtis. It just so thank you.

John Gilbert: And Casey has, uh, introduced us to me in the past.

And then I’ve been asked about, well, do you do that? Like, do you motivationally speak to people? And we’re like, no, no, no, it’s a Motivational Interviewing. It’s different, but there’s something about you Kurtis that you have this, infectious motivational speaking ability that affirm and keep perpetuating for how you choose to harness that.

I am inspired as well to Casey’s point. And thank you so much for your time, to come on today and hopefully we can do more of it and help you out to get this message out there. So thank you very much, Kurtis.

Kurtis Robinson: Thank you. Honor’s mine. And, uh, yeah, with your 500%

John Gilbert: Wonderful, Tami, Casey, anything else you want to add?.

Casey Jackson: Just same as always, you know, the reason why we do things like this is because you request it. Um, so any ideas or thoughts [00:31:00] or, or people you want us to talk with? Uh, just email casey@ifioc.com you know, it’s a catch line, but it genuinely, we do want to provide a communication solution that will change your wold..

Um, you know, that’s our tagline and that’s genuinely what we believe. So, and we do that when you participate. So I appreciate people to get, even to email us and put these requests in to have these kinds of conversations. So I appreciate that. Have a great day. Thank you.

Tami Calais: Thank you for listening to the communication solution podcast as always, this podcast is all about you. So if you have questions, thoughts, topics, suggestions, ideas, please send them our at casey@ifioc.com. Casey@ifioc.com for more resources, feel free to check out IFIOC.com. We also have a public Facebook group called [00:32:00] Motivational Interviewing every day.

We have an amazing blog and we have lots of communication tips on our website. In addition to all these amazing resources we do offer online public courses, on our website on motivational interviewing and effective communication strategies. And if you’re a self-proclaimed-Motivational Interviewing geek,, make sure to join us for one of our live events online with our MI PLUS+ community, we offer a mini Motivational Interviewing training as well as a question and answer and discussion opportunity live webcast with Casey.

Thanks for listening to the communication solution by IFIOC.

Check out our Youtube Channel

Join our Motivational Interviewing Everyday Facebook group

Check out our Class options