Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.
In this episode, we discuss the importance of effective communication in organizations and how it can lead to improved retention, recruitment, and overall workplace culture. We also introduce the concept of “Be the Change,” a training program designed to help individuals develop a mindset and skillset for better communication.

• The power of effective communication in organizations.
  
• The importance of making employees feel valued and understood.
  
• The relationship between recruitment, retention, and workplace culture.
  
• The “Great Resignation” phenomenon and its impact on organizations.
  
• Creating an infrastructure and communication web that meets employees’ needs.
  
• The role of authenticity and genuineness in communication.
  
• Aligning personal values with organizational values.
  
• The concept of “Be the Change” and its focus on mindset and heart-set.
  
• The intentions in the MICA (Motivational Interviewing Competency Assessment) and their impact on communication.
  

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Thank you for listening to the communication solution. This podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Hello and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. Here at the Institute for Individual and Organizational Change, otherwise known as IFIOC, we love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve. Welcome to the communication solution. That will change your world. 

Hello changemakers. It’s Danielle Cantin here, the facilitator of the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson. How are you, Casey? Awesome. I cannot stop thinking about a podcast that we did around why you named this podcast, the communication solution instead of motivational interviewing or something around that topic.

We really dove into how the communication solution, Can can help bolster all different kinds of organizations and to me coming from the business world and working with so many founders and leader leadership teams. There’s something that I feel very passionate about, which is. How do these companies actually help take care of their workforce?

So a lot of times businesses are so focused, so focused on the end client, the end customer. And what I’ve seen through all of your trainings of different organizations is the power. That even if that’s not your intention going into it, the end result is this beautiful workforce, this team culture that in theory, visionaries think intellectually, I should say, yeah, take care of your team and they’ll take care of everything else for you.

What are you actually doing it? Are you actually giving your team? The environment, the tools, the trust to do and be that for you. So you can tell I get really fired up talking about this because it’s, I’ve never seen anything like what you train the results that, that flow out from these organizations.

Can we dive in a little bit about. About retention, about recruiting, about building that team that then uses the tools to, to kind of pass the love on right. To your ultimate end consumer. Yeah. I think, you know, for me, it’s easy to talk about it when I start from an individual perspective and then talk about how my brain.

Expanded into more of a macro level or organizational perspective or, or, you know, the social perspective on it. I think what it makes sense, if you’re thinking about a company or a corporation, profit or nonprofit, you have to be financially viable. You just, that is literally basic arithmetic. 1 plus 1 equals 2.

Like, if we’re not, we’re not making money, we can’t be around anymore. You know, on some level, and then it’s a matter of how much money do we want to make? I think it gets into as well, too. So how do we incentivize? How do we motivate? How do we engage our workforce? You know, all the things that we can do for being a social worker.

I’m startled by my own professional development of how much appreciation. I’ve developed around data and research, in terms of just looking at the science of how things work. And if you just research, and most people know this is, it’s not always about salary. You know, people have said they’ve done research over and over and over again, that people to feel like they’re fulfilled in their job and that they actually love going to work.

People will take a pay cut to have something that improves their basic quality of life because of how much time we spend in our chosen profession on any given day, it’s a ton of time, on any given day, on any given week. And so if it’s something that feeds you and nurtures you and you feel better about the work that you’re doing, it doesn’t matter what the industry is.

You know, this is this, you know, we touched on it last time. It was the kind of phenomenon with the kind of where people talk about the Google work experience or the ebay work experience that people just felt like, oh, my gosh, this just it feeds me like this. This is this aligns with my lifestyle and not every company can do that.

But what it comes down to is it’s not creating that structure per se. It’s how do you engage the workforce from an internal perspective instead of an external HR? Management perspective, you know, yes, the benefit packages are amazing and those are going to get good for recruitment, but that isn’t necessarily going to create retention.

And I think this was the, the great resignation was just a phenomenon, you know, post covid covid post covid that just really rocked the, you know. The corporate world, and the nonprofit world is, you know, what do we, we hear about it consistently in the health care arena. Like you can’t pay me enough to stay in this workforce because none of this aligns with my values.

This is just actually going against my value set. So how do you. Create an infrastructure. How do you create a communication web where people feel that from an internal perspective that their needs are getting met and not only are their needs getting met, it feels like it’s a growth mindset environment.

So we can read books on this. We can watch podcasts on this, but how do you actualize it? That’s my obsession. And that’s why, that’s why I teach what I teach because it’s like, how do we actualize, how do we take these philosophical and yeah, it sounds good. And yeah, I’m inspired when I listened to this.

But how do we operationalize it and measure it and improve it because that in and of itself sounds fairly sterile. But this is again where I’m obsessed with M. I. with motivational and the communication solutions that I’ve come up with because we were able to do is we can catalyze this, we can measure it, we can provide feedback and people can actually.

Feel the improvement in the quality of their own life while the bottom line is improving at the same time. And that’s just, to me, it’s the Holy grail. It’s, you know, unlocking that, that ultimate combination. Yeah, it’s in what I love about it too, because it’s, am I right? Motivational interviewing, like, oh, it’s a, if you focus on the skill piece of it.

It can feel like, oh, I’m not being myself and I’m just implementing a tool and I’ve never seen you do that. Every, every time you do it, it’s a conversation. And when you’re in that room training, these organizations, there isn’t a single topic that comes up. Where you aren’t able to, communicate in a way that is 100 percent authentically you and opens the door to something greater for that other person.

That’s it. There’s an authenticity that moves beyond technique. And, you know, it’s not surprising in one of the podcasts we talked about this with, you know, the latest research from Dr Miller and Moyers. You know, what improves outcomes and that authenticity and genuineness. So it’s not, yeah, there’s ways to teach that, but it’s also, there’s the embodiment of it that you, you can’t technique your way to authenticity.

There’s no technique in that. That has to be a mindset shift. You know, and being able to give people feedback about how is that being perceived and received, on both sides. So, yeah, it is, you can’t technique into most of these things, but that’s what people continue to get trained on is technique.

And so bridging these concepts in a way to pull it together to that improves actual hard outcomes, like retention and, and, and productivity. Yeah. I think about, benefits too. Right. Cause cause you’re looking for employment and it’s just like, well, what’s the benefit package or look ongoing.

Everybody puts in their budget, ongoing professional development. And it’s usually a very small little line item. And it’s like, what if you actually brought in the kind of training that revolutionizes somebody’s world and makes them as a person just feel like. Wow. I got something out of this that isn’t even tied to this organization.

It’s something that can improve all of my relationships and loves in my life. What I see visually is this like great resignation you brought up. You’ve got, an employee sitting here going, Oh my God. Like what is happening in the world? I don’t even know what my values are. What do I value? And so you’ve got them in this job, in this organization, and they’re sitting over here going, okay, I’m trying to work for you.

And then I’m having to figure out this whole existential business on my own with my own life by providing the communication solution. This organization is now saying, I’m going to help you do that. Exactly. It’s a benefit to the organization. It’s a benefit to that employee, whether it’s the right fit or not will be revealed.

Either way, that employee is indebted to you and not in a bad way indebted, but like gratitude, whether they leave or stay. That’s it. And I, and I think where people. Struggle is in so many organizations that are struggling. If you ask your workforce, do you feel like you’re valued or do you feel like you’re disposable?

Do you feel like you do feel like you’re seen and heard and understood in unhealthy organizations? People do not. And in healthy organizations, they do it’s, you know, the way my brain always bridges different models or concepts is it’s not wildly different than a lean model or lean process. If, if, if the person at the whatever level doesn’t feel empowered to have an impact on the system or the outcome, then they feel like they’re just a cog in a wheel.

And so many people talk about that. I mean, I do so much work with. With state agencies or government agencies. And I mean, that’s tends to be the epitome of people feeling like they’re a cog in a wheel. When I, when I’ve done work with on the corporate side of it, at least people feel like they’re getting compensated for being a cog in a wheel.

And yeah, I know I’m giving my life, but I know I’m giving, I have a friend who worked for a, a major, you know, Company that was, you know, huge, you know, trajectory for financial gain. Just, just kind of blown it out of the water. And, but he’s working 80, 90 hours a week and, and he knew he was disposable.

He knew there was somebody nipping on. He literally, this is mind blowing to me because this is so not the world I worked in, in human service, in social service. He was producing, his outcomes were at 125 percent of what he was supposed to be at, and they fired him for low productivity, even though he was at 125 percent of his productivity, because there’s people that are climbing up and getting at 140 percent or 150 percent of the productivity expectations.

And it’s just like, I mean, that is when you’re talking about literally just mulch for a machine. You’re just kind of mulch for the machine. Like it’s, is somebody is going to produce higher than you, even if you’re going above and beyond in your hours and your productivity, at least in the corporate world, what he was able to say is I, I made a ton of money, you know, it was, you know, it was only for, you know, 14 months, but I made an incredible amount of money in that time.

So, but people that jump into that system. Know that it’s not about their own personal worth within the organization. It’s like you are a disposable widget. And as long as you’re producing high level productivity, then you’ll have a job. And when you’re not, you’re going to be replaced. There’s people that like, fine.

If that’s the game we’re going to play, I’ll play that game. I mean, I’ll, I’ll jump in there and I’ll do exactly knowing that ahead of time. Yeah. In a way, it’s For that moment in timing time, your values did align with what you were doing. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s just a shorter trajectory probably of how long that might sustain.

If that’s not really one of your deep values, would you say that’s where I question? Well, and, and what, what hits you is when you’re unemployed then, and it’s like, and it takes a blow to your ego. That’s like, wow, I’m producing at 125 percent and I, I’m not, I can’t be, retained. And it had nothing to do with personality or anything like that, that it genuinely was just a productivity measure.

Then it’s like, do I really want to work for that kind of a company, which is, he was really rethinking that and going, you know what, I think there’s probably a happy medium in here where I can generate the income that I want to generate. But I think I want to work with a more values driven corporation to, really does value me because it is odd to not be valued personally for giving, you know.

80 to 90 hours a week and producing 125 percent of productivity expectations and that there’s no intrinsic value. And that is just an odd feeling. So I think that’s where it comes to you. But when I take a step back from all of that, I think the vast majority of people want to feel heard and seen and understood in their workplace.

I think they want to feel like they’re contributing or they feel like their value. I don’t care what the widget is. I don’t care if it’s a human widget. I don’t care if it’s a, you know, a corporate widget. I don’t care what it is. It just, people want to feel like what I’m doing and what I’m getting paid for, it makes me feel more valued in the work that I do.

It feels like I’m doing something that helps me on my path on this planet at this point in time, you know, that it’s contributing to something. You know, I know we did that series at the end. We’ll, we’ll. Show people where they can go to grab it, but you did a free training on recruiting and retention for people.

And that 1st, I think it was like, 3 videos. And the 1st, 1 was, really diving into empathy and making sure that people, your team feel seen and heard that’s so valuable. Through the recruiting process, because as much as you say, you might be able to recruit them. It’s just like, oh, what if you could even recruit better than you’re doing and then the retention piece as well.

And, you know, what I’ve seen in every organization inside every organization with the leadership team is. You hit the nail on the head. Everybody wants to be seen and heard. And the, when you think about politics within an organization, they, everybody’s trying to get the eyes and ears of the CEO, the leader, and it’s just like, what if you can actually start creating this culture where you feel seen and heard amongst yourselves for, and with each other.

You know, what does that, how does that change and shift the dynamic of everybody clamoring to make sure that they’re seen and heard to one person, you know, can you speak a little bit about what that could, could, transpose in an organization? Yeah, well, I think it might be going down a rabbit hole, but help me get out of it when I go down here.

What? When you said that, it popped in my brain. So I’m going to say it. I’m thinking, well, this is probably not the smartest thing to say, but I’m going to, so one of my brothers, I have lots of brothers, and one of them, I would, he gets an A plus when it comes to courtship. I, he is everything that any woman would have ever wanted for somebody that knows how to court them.

He is a flowers, open the door, take your favorite restaurant, make your favorite meal. No one, I’ve never in my life met somebody that courts better than he does. And he’s on his third marriage. And I think that’s the difference between retention. And recruitment, I don’t know why that’s such a blatant example.

I think I’m such a visual person because once he is in the relationship or is married, he goes back into his man cave and they’re clamoring for attention and they don’t feel heard or seen or understood and they just tolerate that. It’s like, what happened to the courtship? And I think this is the difference between recruitment and retention.

Is you can be phenomenal at recruitment the best in the world and provide the, you know, sign on bonuses and, you know, great benefits, but if you’re not able to make sure that people feel heard and seen and valued and understood, I’m just curious how long this is going to last. And if you feel like, you know, well, we, we put the money in up front.

Now you owe us, boy, that I just don’t see how retention is going to be strong in those kind of companies. And if you don’t treat them well, but you bring them flowers once a month while you treat them, not particularly well, that still isn’t going to be good for the relationship. So if you’re a jerk most of the time, but take them out to dinner once a month, that’s just not enough.

For sustainability, or you get a workforce that really starts to disengage and it’s like, well, this is probably the best I can get. And they’ll just kind of hang in there, which is not good for a culture. It’s not good for a family. So it’s those same things that my brain kind of looks at that end of 1.

And then again, on a macro application level, it’s just, these are the things when I look at retention, and recruitment that if you don’t understand how to make them fit hand in glove. I love that example about your brother. It’s so true. Cause it’s like, there is something so thrilling about the newness of it.

Like, Oh my God, you love me. I love you. And it’s this courtship and then you get on board and that’s a wild ride getting know the company and the people and. And I actually was just speaking with some, some team members of a company I worked with and I had been with them really, even though it’s branding, it’s really, it’s communication and it’s a franchise system.

So that’s pretty impactful. And, so I had a really big role in developing and nurturing trust and, and put all of my energy into that and moved up, moved along. And so checking with the team. And how they brought in people, you know, never quite in, in the role that I was, was doing brought in different people and courted them and then brought in others and kind of like forgot about the one they courted already brought in a new hero or a new whatever.

And it’s like, that is what really breeds that unrest in an organization. It’s like, how do you make sure and use the communication solution to really lift up and prop people up through every step of their journey? I mean, what organization does that? And it’s like to see all of them, you know, cause you train so many organizations, the more and more that keep raising their hand, I get so excited cause I’m like, Oh my God.

Well, I mean the results speak for themselves. That’s why they’re doing it. And word of mouth spreads. Exactly, but, but I, I love that. That’s what your story triggered in me was I see that in companies over and over again, where people feel pushed aside or not seen. Well, you know, I think it links a bit to, I know it’s been one of your kind of passions in the work you do with me is the whole concept of the, be the change.

It’s like how from a leader perspective, how from a. Parent perspective from a partner relationship perspective from a workforce perspective. How do I get my behavior line with my values? How do I ensure irrespective of the system that I work within? How do I find my power? And I know every interaction I have personally and professionally.

I know it’s the best interaction. It could be, I just, I can feel the difference in the way that people are operating around me. I can feel the difference in the way that I wake up in the morning. I can feel the way, the difference in the way that I go to bed at night. I can feel the difference in the way that I talk to people that I love and care about, like, how do we orchestrate that consistently?

And I just, I, again, I keep going back to, you know, pandemic post pandemic of, I think people are just seeking that. Clarity, like where it’s, I know it’s out there somewhere. And I think this is why for me, having been so immersed in it for 25 years now, 20 years, 25 years of motivational interviewing, I just see how this makes a profound difference in, in people’s lives.

It has forever changed the quality of my life. I wake up in the morning and I can’t believe that I live the life that I live. It just, it’s mind boggling to me. And every day I get to wake up and feel that. And I think that’s, I think those conversations is what sparked your impetus for leaning heavy on me to think about, you know, how do you, how do you, can you teach that to other people?

Can you provide that? Is there a structure for that? And I think this is why it links for me. On that personal and professional level, or when you’re, when you kind of deconstruct it from a corporate or a business or organizational level, the more you can replicate that, there is no way that is not going to generate improved outcomes.

There’s just no way again, personally and professionally. Yeah, I love the opportunity and, you know, for all of you guys listening. Before we forget, we should share that there is a free training. If you want to really, especially hone in on recruiting and retention, Casey Jackson. com forward slash free training.

That’s where you want to go. Grab your, grab your free training, for recruiting and retention, but. What you’re talking about here to Casey is this opportunity to go at the communication solution from a different couple couple ways. You do a ton of of team organizational training, but what we’re looking at, offering January.

12th, I think it is. It’s a Friday 9 to 11 Pacific is a training called be the change and it’s geared toward the individual. So whether you’ve trained with Casey and, a larger team organizational training, or just on your own have taken some trainings, with Casey or anybody else, you’re really welcome to join this training Because it can also start from, from you.

That’s where it actually starts and you can see that change. Exactly. And it, it, what I was thinking about, the more that you were kind of pushing me to think, you know, what would that look like? How would you go about that? I wanted to be able to create something that moved beyond again, just the technique and lean even heavier into the mindset.

I had a moment that was pretty. It was profound for me that, a couple of people had shared. They were managers, which ties all this together. They were, they were supervisors and both of them separately had to deal with, a personnel issue. And 1 of the individuals, they both said the same thing, which was so fascinating to me.

I heard this within the same month. 1 of the individuals have supervised somebody that they’d actually been peers. And now she was in a supervisory position and she really. Had a strong personal relationship, but there was a profound personnel issue that she had to deal with because she’s a direct supervisor.

And she said she stressed over it, lost sleep over it, was emotional over it. It was just like, I don’t know how to do this and just, just consternation pain that she was struggling with. And she said, and then I had this aha moment. And when she was driving to work on the day, that she had to have this conversation, she said.

I don’t care if I’m doing motivation or not, I want to try to score fives across the board on the, am I intentions on the Micah? I just went, I’m going to lean into all five of those intentions and see how it goes. And she said it was one of the most transformational conversation that she’s ever had as a, as a supervisor.

There was emotion, there was tears, there was a warmth, there was compassion. And it came to the resolution that was in everybody’s best interest. And her, you know, employee slash friend felt heard and understood and more clear and, and made healthier decisions from there. And she said, and all I kept thinking about is just, I just want to operate from the 5 intentions.

And I talked to another supervisor who. Shared a very similar story that she said, you know, I didn’t know if I was doing my, but I knew I would have scored fours and fives on all the intentions in the Micah. And that is kind of for me where I wanted to move to with the be the change concept is how do we get our mindset?

What are specific things that we can measure that research shows? Will improve outcomes of human beings around us, and it doesn’t have to be so technique driven. It can be very much mindset and heart set driven. So we can be that change. And what are some of those things that we can practice on a day to day basis?

And if we practice them, the world around us will change. And that that’s kind of the foundation for me in kind of developing some of this curriculum or the way to have these conversations and that. Kind of an offshoot part of the communication solution, but an offshoot that kind of veers a bit away from motivational interviewing.

Yeah. And it sounds like it bleeds out of outside of your role. So it’s like, maybe you are using these intentions in your role to achieve a purpose within a business. And it’s like that lightbulb goes off, Oh, my God, I can actually have this kind of a conversation and have these kinds of attentions in a difficult situation with a friend or a family member.

That’s what I really love. It’s like, okay, let’s bolster you up as an individual as a person human in your own world. Can you for those listening? You might not know. Maybe be the change is, is a good training, you know, for you, if you’re interested in these, in these intentions, can you, can you list off what the intentions are?

Well, the intentions in the mica are, you know, how do we support autonomy and activate a sense of personal agency? How do you guide conversation toward solution or resolution? You know, 1 thing we. Talk about every aspect of motivational learning is just accurate empathy and not just am I, but now what research is showing about the impact on outcomes, irrespective of motivational interviewing, just the potency of accurate empathy.

How do you partner? How do you come alongside someone and collaborate shoulder to shoulder to get to a better outcome? And then, how do you evoke or draw out their thoughts and their ideas, to maximize the potential in other people? Be able to do that. Those are the ones within motivational interviewing.

And then there’s other ones about genuineness and authenticity and hope. Yeah, we did that whole podcast on hope, but looking at some of the data around this and the, I guess, beyond the data to the humanity of why that creates positive outcomes, I just want to harness all those things together. And be able to share them in a way that people can implement them in their lives and improve kind of the quality of their own life and the lives of people around them.

Awesome. I’m so excited for that training. Thank you so much. Casey. Really appreciate, appreciate you expanding your, your role to help even more people. And, Everybody just reach out. We want to hear from you. You know, is this helpful? Is it not? Do you have ideas for the podcast? Do you want to join the podcast as a guest in the podcast?

Yeah. Email case Casey at I F I O C dot com and then go grab, your free training at, Casey Jackson dot com forward slash free training. And then also that that will put you on an email list so we can notify you when we have the be the change training up and ready with information for you. Thank you, Casey.

 Thank you for listening to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at Casey@IFIOC.com. That’s Casey@IFIOC.com. For more information or to schedule a training, visit I F I O C dot com. Until our next communication solution podcast, keep changing the world.