Welcome to today’s episode of The Communication Solution podcast with Casey Jackson, John Gilbert and Danielle Cantin. We love talking about Motivational Interviewing, and about improving outcomes for individuals, organizations, and the communities that they serve.
Today we delve into the topic of digital detox. We discuss our personal experiences with social media, emphasizing the importance of aligning behavior with one’s core values. The conversation touches on the impact of advocacy on social media, the need for authenticity, and the potential risks associated with excessive screen time. 

• Exploring the pervasive impact of digital technology and screen time on our lives, and the need for a digital detox.
  
• Personal experiences with digital detox, including the realization of its effects on behavior and values alignment.
  
• Reflecting on the challenge of balancing advocacy and social media, and the potential for generating resistance.
  
• The importance of seeking alignment between behavior and values in the context of social media use.
  
• Recognizing the potential benefits and drawbacks of social media, and the role of values-driven decisions in using it.
  
• Addressing the role of social media in fulfilling the human need for connection, contribution, and understanding.
  
• Considering the responsibility and potential risks associated with using social media platforms.
  
• Emphasizing the value of empathy and understanding in navigating social media interactions.
  
• Encouraging self-reflection and taking steps towards positive behavior change in the digital realm.
  

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Thank you for listening to the Communication Solution Podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is all about you. If you have questions, thoughts, topic suggestions, or ideas, please send them our way at casey@ifioc.com. For more resources, feel free to check out ifioc.com.

Hello, and welcome to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. I’m your host, Danielle Cantin. We love to talk about communication. We love to talk about solutions, and we love to talk about providing measurable results for individuals, organizations, and the communities they serve.

Welcome to the communication solution that will change your world. Welcome everyone. I’m Danielle Cantin, facilitator of the communication solution with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert, and we’re here to talk about everything related to motivational interviewing. And it pretty much does touch every part of our world.

Today, we’re going to dive into an incredible topic. One that I’m pretty sure every single human is familiar with and it’s digital detox. Oh my God. It’s taking over our world. When I see the little screen pop up to let me know my screen time, it’s just like, Oh, So what am I doing? And that’s just me as a human.

I’m not even worrying about a child or everybody else in my life and what they’re doing, but it just can’t, it makes me think of, of how, you know, we’re trying to all connect with each other. And yet we’ve got this digital interruption that’s happening. That’s really preventing us from those deeper connections.

So with that, I want to turn it over to,  to you guys to dive into this world of digital and perhaps good ways to detox. Well, I’ll tell you what’s fascinating for me about this is just read this relatively recently within, you know, the last seven months, my two of my social media accounts were hacked my personal ones and deleted.

Which meant deleted. I couldn’t recover them.  Facebook and Instagram. Yeah. So I didn’t, I didn’t, I just know how much Casey’s,  how that’s a big deal. Well, is this part of that digital detox? That’s why I think it’s a great topic because the only thing that really bothered me, it surprised, I think I was surprised at how.

Little bit of a, little of a response that I had to that. My biggest thing was no pictures that I’d posted that I wonder if I still have them on my phone or those kinds of things. What I was annoyed with was the fact that there’s no customer service. So there’s no customer service to restore your accounts.

There’s no phone numbers. There’s no emails or nothing. You just, you just start a new one. And there was something that struck me. I was so annoyed that I just thought, you know what, if you really don’t care that much about customer service, I really don’t care that much about your product. And so I never signed up for new accounts on Facebook or Instagram,  and haven’t.

So then my spouse saw that my screen time went down so significantly that then just deactivated those accounts and it was shocking the drop in, and I’ve, and I’ve never re signed up for new accounts in the last seven months. So I don’t have an Instagram or Facebook account. I’ll tell you the things that are fascinating to me, and this is where motivation comes into it.

Is it really does push? Is your behavior in line with your values? And this is more complicated than I would have thought of. Now that I’m living it, it doesn’t mean that I’m not on, you know, I don’t check things out. You know, I’m more of a news junkie than anything else.  And a research junkie. But What I did notice that my habits are, I tend to want to forward political things that I have a really strong emotional attraction to,  and have a lot of reaction to.

And I know that for as much as it would generate people who I’m friends with jumping on board who think that way, it also generated just as much of the opposite reaction. Um. But I am such a social worker at heart and such an advocate and I believe so strongly in the things that I believe, but the push comes to shove with motivational interviewing is on one hand, my behaviors in line with my values, but in that exact same moment of pushing send or posting something, I know it’s going to generate resistance.

I know it is. I know that there’s going to be half the people that I know that are friends of mine that are going to jump on board and say, I’m so glad you posted that, you know, where did you get that link? I totally agree with you. And I know there’s going to be another handful of people that I know that automatically we’re going to go, you know, this is what I hate when Casey posted these things.

And I think that’s the human dimensionality of who each of us is, but it is so. Counter indicated when you’re looking through an M. I. Lens. So I’m not going to say it’s wrong because M. I. Is not for every situation. We need advocates in the world. We need to do all sorts of profound things that we hope will create change.

But a very bitter, bitter pill to swallow with that as well, too, is When I’m trying to do advocacy or get my behavior in line with my values or do things on social media, there’s things that I know that I’m generating resistance or embedding and deepening resistance in people at the same time. And that’s not who I want to be with my behavior being aligned with my values at the same time.

So what are, what are ways that we do that?  And I, so it’s just, it’s fascinating. To think about how do you get into digital detox when it’s so pervasive in our lives on such an emotional level, a social level, a political level, economic level. You know what I love about this? That everybody it’s such a broad topic.

If you think about detoxing from what first you have to identify what it is. So I love that you introduced right away. Are you aligned with your values? So that that because I read so many articles and points of view on social media, and if you just look at one, it can be a little confusing. Like one was how social media, everybody’s just putting on a fake persona of is there is that the reality of the life they’re living?

And I’m like, I don’t know that it ever could, because we’re not on social media all the time to, there are some people who are out there sharing every moment of their life, but,  How often that is, I’m not sure. So there’s all of these different stories around,  the digital world. So really identifying and starting with, is it aligned with, is my behavior aligned with social for me?

It’s a tool. It’s a tool I use to get messages of hope out to people to try to do something that’s going to uplift them to make them think differently.  But I do have that bit of, Oh, what are people going to think about it? And I don’t want it to, you know, get that reaction. But at the end of the day, I think when it comes to detox for me.

Is I definitely value a sense of, I don’t know if it’s autonomy or I want to be present with myself and proactive, not necessarily reactive. So when I look at my screen time and I think of social media, I’m like, ding, ding, ding, something else is driving me other than my connection with where I want my moment or day to go and the contribution I want to be.

So that’s the detox part that I’m like, Ooh, that that’s it. And I think that the part of what I think of is I just, I don’t want to contribute. And I thought about this before we even started a podcast was I don’t want to contribute to white noise. I don’t want to contribute to that. So where is it that you want to have positive messages out there?

But when so many people are clamoring, To get their message out there, what is my personal need to do that? What’s my soul’s need to do that? And is it relevant? And is that the best way to try to get my voice out? There is through social media. And then you think that’s just really interesting. Or is it just contributing to loads and loads of audio and digital files of voices that are just, you know, droning on and on and on and on.

It doesn’t really contribute. That just fascinates me. I think about when we talk about those, that Even trying to pull back from some of that because there is, there is a status. I mean, just that, that an influencer is a career is a little mind boggling, but it is, it is in the fabric of our culture now.

Influencers are, those are careers. Those are lucrative careers if you can get a career like that. So it’s so hard to detox from things that people are so addicted to from the minute they get up and they’ve got their iPad on while they’re drinking their coffee. Like it’s, we’re so plugged in. So you think there has to be, is my behavior like my values that I know for older generations, I think, you know, any generation that wasn’t born with an iPad in their hand, I think there is that concern.

But then I think because of world. Progresses at such a rapid technological rate right now. I think we’re in a, I know I’m in a generation where it’s just like, I sick and tired of social media, but if I am away from it for too long, there’s going to be so many advances that am I going to be obsolete?  Because they’re just everything that changes every day.

And so do you want to detox from all of that? Or is that the new norm is being toxified by these, by social media is the toxicity of that norm, the norm. And I think we, I think we’d all agree that it is the norm, but does it make it healthy? And that’s where it becomes my behavior in life, my values. Do you think that at the core of social media, at its essence, there’s some deep desire for everybody to connect or to be seen and heard?

Is that, I mean, there’s a nice connection between The addiction of detoxing from digital and motivational interviewing. Absolutely. That’s one thing I’ve always run through my brain is people want, everybody’s raising their hands and screaming and shining the camera on themselves saying, look at me, I’m, I’m special.

I’m unique. Do you like me? You know, please tell me I’m valuable. Tell me, hit that heart button, hit, hit that you read this or saw my picture. Of me dressing my child this morning before school, or this is what I made my family for dinner. Like, did you like me? I think there’s just that everybody wants to be seen and heard and understood.

And that’s that crux of empathy and motivational interviewing. And then there’s also the flip side of that, where there’s people who are sharing everything. And then there are people who don’t share as much, but are just as consumed looking and watching and having internal thoughts about, am I valuable?

And how do I compare? To all of these people or judging and go, Oh my God, look at posting another picture of their kid and all parent of the year award and the nastiness and all of that is energy on the internet. And it’s just like, Oh, so yeah, I’m really curious your take on. You know, where does motivational interviewing and the tenants of that come into play here?

And what are some things we can think about to help? Yeah. First off, top of my brain, then John, I’m curious what you think as well, too, because you, you come from a different perspective on social media and always has since the day I’ve known you and you’re a younger generation. I think for me, it’s, there’s too much confection to believing that that’s reality.

And even though it is a distinct reality now, social media is a distinct reality. It’s not the reality that represents who I am and the way that I want to live my life. It’s not my behaviors in line with my values. My behavior in line with my values is going to my kids You know, supporting events. it’s,  me hanging out with friends and family,  in an intimate setting and, and talking and getting into deep conversation.

That’s my behavior in my line with my values. And this is where it was kind of profound with my detox of, you know, it’s not. For as much as I’m an advocate on a social justice level, me posting those things is not increasing social justice. So stop doing it that your behavior is not ultimately like you can justify that your behavior is aligned with your values because you’re espousing these things or forwarding these things that you believe in, but is it really changing behavior changing the energy in the world?

No, it’s contributing to a negative energy in the world. And that’s where, for me, it was that kind of the break in the action was me starting to get my behavior line with my values with not re upping new accounts.

Yeah, go ahead, Casey. No, that’s saying dive in, John. That’s this is,  because you do come from a different perspective, especially if you’re a generation, you’d come from a different perspective. Yeah, I’m just a strange one.  Yes,

there’s more argument. Like not nobody’s to say extraordinary.  Particularly in this, in this realm,  I love your, your quick to catch there, Daniel.  Yes. So,  with this topic, especially with, with kind of that, that I see so much of what we talk about with values. And it goes way beyond, am I, but to keep it specific to, am I, you know, what do you really, really care about and what really fulfills you, what are you trying to align with and Casey, you started this company, this institute that, you know, has its own, has its own amazing measurable impact in people’s lives and you get lots of feedback.

That it’s transforming people’s lives and you’re aligning your values with a sense of contribution, a sense of impact. You know, we could talk clouds above the top of the mountain as you and I have talked about beyond just the top of the mountain, but that there’s a sense of alignment here that is having alignment of your values with that impact.

To me, I see these things very similar with your politics and what you were talking about, Danielle. I just am filtering them from a very biased, but values theory, mountain analogy, focus mountain we use in our trainings view, which is that we’re all trying to have some sense of our values being filled.

And so social media is really helpful for a sense of that happening. I think what you’re both questioning or bringing up, how much is that really happening or not? And how much is the impact? What I think the impact is, how much do I really feel like what I’m doing,  is helping. And if you believe it’s helping, then you are probably having a healthy response.

You’re feeling like you’re doing something for the world of contributing to bettering the world. And we tend to not like negative. Things that don’t align with what we believe. So if that’s true, then great, but we’re going to also not like any information or feedback unless we really want it. That maybe that isn’t having the impact we thought, right.

Confirmation bias, uncaused bias, all these other things we can do psychologically, but I’m just highlighting what you’ve brought up already around M I is it’s a way for people to feel like they’re getting their behaviors in alignment with their values. And I have no need of like, well, is that happening or not?

I don’t know. How would you know? Well, you should probably seek some feedback and read some stuff and probably do something about that if you really want to know. But it’s, I can speak from experience. It’s a heck of a lot more freeing for me to not need to question any of that or need to feel significant in these ways.

However, I also probably don’t have the same. Value in that kind of impact, I feel like with being a part of this Institute, I’m really doing things in the world and have not partaken in a sick care system that I believe doesn’t really get to the root of things. And, and so I believe my behavior in a lot of ways is, is helping people to a degree that seems to have real world impacts.

And I think it’s something you said to me years ago, Casey, because I could. Keep going on about different angles of behavior and values with M. I. and Daniel, what you brought up, how much are we feeling heard and seen all those things we could totally go much deeper into with the social media, from my perspective, but if, if I feel that in my life, then social media just seems to be,  Less of a thing that’s needed.

It’s much more of a superfluous thing. It might be a thing that, like you said, Casey years ago with me of, you know, living my life instead of documenting it. And that really resonated that I’ve, I’ve remembered for years. And it’s like, if you live it fully and wholly and presently. then maybe there’s something to be said for that.

I don’t know. I’m not trying to romanticize a particular thing, but I know for me what, what seems to resonate. And I think people are craving that sense of behavior alignment with their values seen and understood, seen, heard, and understood. And a sense of connecting, like you brought up Casey and contributing.

And I think if we can recognize that that’s what we’re all trying to do, we’re trying to feel valuable. We’re trying to feel like we’re doing something good. We’re trying to feel connected. Then it becomes less of a,  you know, thing to get super judgy about. It’s just, I think there’s. A lot more to be said about how much are we really having those impacts we’re thinking we’re having and how much can we feel that in other areas to diversify as it were,  our investment of our time and energy to get those needs met or values met.

And I just think there’s a lot, I think there’s a much longer podcast to be had on this,  that it’s not about detoxing so much as like getting clear, like you both have brought up and get clear what really is fulfilling. I love that. You know, actually something that resonated early on that you said made me feel good.

It’s just like, is it right for you? It’s such an individual choice. And for me, it’s like. I want to be seen and heard, but I also want to like, I’ll look at what other people are saying and then repost and help to make them feel seen and heard and validated. So that’s part of my value system. And then it’s like, you said,  if it feels good, then do it like that.

That’s a, that could be a signal that it’s in line with your values because I’m like, Yeah, I’m not out there a ton, but I feel good when I do share something like,  I feed the homeless every Sunday. So I’d love to take a story about that and equate it with, Hey, what if you think about X, Y, or Z in your life this way, how could you improve the quality of your life?

So for me, it’s not a ton I do, but it, it does at the end of the day, make me feel good. What I don’t like is any pressure of feeling like I should be out there more or more consistent. It’s like I like when it’s authentic. So,  I think that’s really, I appreciate that. And I also, there’s plenty of room for somebody who’s saying I don’t, that’s not the place for me to be.

I think that’s really empowering. I agree. And I think that’s when I think of what both you’re talking about, John’s talking about. And then we think of that, this thing about detox. I do go back to the top mountain concept and the values driven piece of it. Because you can take any one of those for any given individual.

Is it about a sense of connection? Is it a sense of contribution? Is it a sense of, is my behavior aligning with my sense of contribution? Is my behavior aligning with my sense of integrity? And if it perpetuates that, those are some of the great things about social media. It’s this, I think of social media, just like a laser, you know, it can do death and destruction, or it can heal a body.

Like there’s, you know, there’s, It’s how we’re being used and as our behavior line with our values, if you’re doing it for a sense of connection and it causes you a sense of depression because you’re not getting what you want. Thank you, Casey. I am just sitting here like, oh, my gosh, what about the social dilemma?

Let’s think because yes, Danielle, I said something in essence of what you said, but I want to be crystal clear about what I’m saying is not. Let’s only do what feels good to me. That’s a very dangerous perspective. And I just want to be crystal clear. Cause Casey, you just brought up that sometimes we don’t know.

I don’t know what I don’t know. I got blind spots, but that there’s a certain amount of these, this technology. Is designed to take your eye and put it here for the sake of making money off of your attention. So I want to be crystal clear. There’s yes, we can feel good about something smoking cigarettes or whatever for a period of time.

And yet that doesn’t mean it’s. The outcomes are as good as we thought those outcomes would be. So that’s what I’m saying is to seek that. And that depression can build this chasm inside of us that we didn’t realize. And then all of a sudden feel it to just seek that Casey, that’s such a good example of that.

And we have good outcome data to start looking at that with social media. It just is why I love motivational interviewing and the evidence based practice live on the top of the mountain.

I did. I do. I, I just, these conversations are just fascinating to me. And it really, what it all comes down to is where, what contributes to you being healthier and happier, healthier and happier, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically. And if social media is contributing to that, what is there to detox from?

 If there’s a restorative or a healing property. And I always love a quote that John has, you know, repeated multiple times over the course of our friendship is, you know, everything in moderation, including moderation,  that’s the same thing.  It’s that same thing that just quality of life where we’re here.

If it’s, if it’s contributing to your growth and a healthful and a healing way, we’re, what is there to detox from that is actually restoration. That’s the antithesis of getting to detox. So I think when it is in perspective, and that’s how we. Navigate it and it feels like it genuinely, whatever that behavior is, is lining with, for me, specifically with social media posts is yes, I can justify how this gives me a sense of integrity because I posted it, but if it’s not contributing to a sense of connection and there’s not the level of contribution that I want, I don’t know if that’s, I don’t know if I can justify the integrity of forwarding it or posting it to make me feel good as an advocate if I know it’s going to, it’s going to break down connection.

 And not be the contribution. I think then I need to rethink it. And I think those are the things that are not necessarily the detox, but I think it’s the my personal accountability in terms of yes, I can justify if this one behavior is in line with this one value, that is extremely easy for me to rationalize and justify.

And I think so many people feel comfortable in that zone. Which is where righteousness can, can be born from for myself. And then on the flip side, if I’m going to run it through multiple values that I have at the top of the mountain, a lot of the things that I have modified in my life based on social media, I have changed because yes, I can justify this one value that aligns with, but it’s not aligning with who I as a human being want to be, and it’s not getting me to the top of my mountain.

As I define it.

Yeah, I feel like this one could go on for a very long time because I feel there’s so many other angles of, of this, but I’ll just say to, it’s,  a tool that can take away your sovereignty of what you believe that you have control over and to just be mindful of that. Is the last thing I wanted to say that we might believe we’re buying that shirt or whatever the thing is that we now have attention around that we’re being sold on, but that’s what so much of the social dilemma and other things point to is like, okay, let’s.

Go in with eyes wide open and see that the matrix is right here and how in that go, how do I want to navigate this in a way that does align? Because for professionals, you know, as a person that’s into health and things, it’s like, yeah, if you’re pretty healthy, you can. Post pictures of yourself and try to get followers and then try to get sponsors and try to make money.

But it’s like, how much do you really need that sense of feedback? How much do you want to be now responsible for posting all these things? And then now that becomes the persona to upkeep. There’s so much around the responsibility as a professional. That’s just a vain version, but it could be as a psychologist, right?

There’s so much responsibility to that versus freedom. You get from being an individual that can post anything, however they want to think all the time. So I really like this discussion for me is it depends on the person, but it also depends on their sense of awareness of how much do they really understand what they’re getting themselves into.

And. And not that I fully get it, but that’s part of why I use the precautionary principle in this area of my life. And I don’t partake in it as much, but I do think there’s value in it. It’s a tool. And I do want to just highlight that as a final kind of thing. It’s a tool that can be risky, but it doesn’t have to be.

Awesome. Any parting thoughts, Casey? I just circle back around to like what we’re all talking about is how do you ensure for yourself that your behavior is in line with what your values are? And  and we start to justify or rationalize it. It’s a potentially slippery slope. So I always just think for myself, you know, what creates connection, what, what is, you know, contributing, what has integrity.

You know, and what’s fulfilling and some of my core values that I really try to live by if those are lining up and I feel better at the end of the day, then it’s, then that’s,  that’s just, I know what my version of happier and healthier is. And that’s definitely what I endorse for anybody that likes being on that journey as well.

Awesome. I just want to jump in Danielle for one last thing that I had heard from a philosopher one time, like a modern day philosopher of like, what would be the one thing we could do in the world? Like, it’s a quippy question and the person didn’t like the question, but it’s like, what’s the one thing we could do that could help improve so many things if we just did one thing.

And I want to relate this to the social media. It’s to try to steal person, the other person’s perspective. Try to take on, with empathy if you can, to understand where other people are coming from first. Before you react with your perspective, and it’s a really important thing, I think it for the future social media that relates to expressing empathy and motivational interviewing and the other podcast we did with what’s really important in the world is accurate empathy.

Is to first try to understand where someone could be coming from in their post or why they use social media or whatever is to try to understand that first and from that place, then move forth. And I just want to end with that for, yeah, that’s nice. We kind of looked at it from the user generator.  Perspective, and then that’s a nice turnaround to, to also say, okay, as the viewer and consumer of everybody else, how could we,  be better?

So hopefully this is really helpful to the viewers and listeners out there.  You know, there’s a lot that we talk about in training at IFIOC. com with these guys, the focus mountain you heard a lot about. So if you’re wondering and really thinking about what are my values,  stay tuned, check out, reach out.

 We’re happy to have a conversation and help you take your next best step.  And then I think again, Casey, everything’s just pointing to the be the change type training,  that I think so many people need to help really get in touch with what their values are and stay aligned their behaviors. So thanks so much, you guys.

Excellent. Thank you. Thanks for joining us, everyone. Take care. Thank you for listening to the communication solution podcast with Casey Jackson and John Gilbert. As always, this podcast is about empowering you on your journey to change the world. So if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas, send them our way at Casey@IFIOC.Com. That’s CASEY@IFIOC.COM. For more information or to schedule a training, visit IFIOC.Com. Until our next communication solution podcast, keep changing the world.