As a crisis pregnancy counsellor with One Family, Marguerite McCarthy has seen and heard it all when it comes to women and pregnancy. She speaks to Kathy Sheridan about her concerns that the debate around the referendum on the Eighth Amendment is focusing too much on what we call the 'hard cases' and the voices of those 'ordinary women' who make the decision to end their pregnancies are not being heard enough. Also on today's podcast, one of those so-called 'ordinary women', Louise White, speaks about her experience of crisis pregnancy and the shame she carried about it for too many years.