This Episode is Sponsored by: Dandy | The Fully Digital, US-based Dental LabTo check out Dandy's FREE KPI E-Book click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/learning-center/ebooks/dental-industry-kpis/‍For a completely FREE 3Shape Trios 3 scanner & $250 in lab credit click here: https://www.meetdandy.com/affiliate/tdm !

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Guest: Paul EtchisonBusiness Name: Dental Practice HeroesCheck out Paul's Media:

Website: https://dentalpracticeheroes.com/

Dental Practice Heroes Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dental-practice-heroes-podcast/id1315253777

Dental Practice Hero: From Ordinary Practice to Extraordinary Experience: https://www.amazon.com/Dental-Practice-Hero-Extraordinary-Experience/dp/099978630X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1680206813&sr=1-1

Dental Practice Hero II: How a 3 Day Work Week Can Give You the Life You Want: https://www.amazon.com/Dental-Practice-Hero-II-Sequel/dp/1736658972/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1680206741&sr=1-2

Dental Business Mentor:  www.dentalbusinessmentor.com

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Other Mentions and Links:

Dr. Etchison on Episode 300!

Dr. Etchison on MMM [INTERNAL MARKETING] SMALL DETAILS THAT MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN TEAM COMMUNICATION!

Delta Dental

Keurig

MB2

Goldman Sachs

Die With Zero - Bill Perkins

Invisalign

The Top 5 Regrets of the Dying - Bronnie Ware

The Four - Scott Galloway

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Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer

Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍

Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society

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My Key Takeaways:

• Try giving your team the autonomy to own tasks and you may be surprised at what they're capable of!
• Never be afraid of you or your team messing up. This is an important part of the process of growing!
• Seniority is NOT always the best indicator of competency in a role.
• The meaning behind the task is far more important that what you're doing to complete it.
• Don't criticize team members for dropping the ball. Work together to find a better way to do things!
• Try to not be afraid of "doing nothing," as this is essential for recharging your creativity.

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Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]

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p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.

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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)

Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guests returning guests, Paul Etchison. How's it going, man?

Paul: Good. It's going good. Thanks for having me back. I really appreciate it.

Michael: No, man. I appreciate it. You've been on the Monday Morning marketing episode, and we're gonna put a link to that in the show notes, but you were also on episode 300 Nelson Ridge Family Dental.

Mm-hmm. You just sold

right?

Paul: Not that long ago. I, well, I sold, yeah, I, I sold to, uh, A D S O about two and a half years ago. So I'm still doing it. I'm still there. I'm still part of it, but my, my part of it is a little bit different now, I guess, than it was in the past, but it's, it's good. I'm, I'm excited for the future and, and I'm coming up on the end of my contract with them, but, um, no intentions on leaving, so I'll be there for long term, which my team is happy to hear.

Can we

Michael: talk about like, the of that? Like why, how much did you sell for and stuff like that, or no?

Paul: Um, no, probably not. Okay. Okay. Then why did you sell? Why did I sell? Um, you know, for me it was coming outta covid. I just like, it was so good. Just not have the practice. I mean, and some people like missed going to work.

I didn't miss it at all. I, I mean, I thought I was like really like laid back and I felt like my leads were running a lot of stuff. And then when we shut down for 11 weeks and the practice went away and all the stress went away, it was just like, I just, this weight lifted. And then I, I said when we come back, I'm doing things differently.

I, I'm not letting this, I mean, it, it was just like this, realize how much it was in my life, how much it was like taking over like my psyche and just like always occupying my mind. And, and then we came back from Covid and, and we had all these massive other things to deal with, like regulations and, and we're still worried about the virus and stuff.

But once things got back to business as usual, I said, Hey man, I'm doing something different. Started exploring the idea of. Man, do I, could I get, what kind of like money could I get for this practice? What does it make sure sense like financially long term to do this and then come, really come to grips with the fact that.

Coming to Grip with that. It wasn't so final. Like if I loved being a dental practice owner and I sold it and it was horrible and I hated the corporation and I just wanted my baby back and I just wanted to own my practice again, I could go and I can open another one. You know? So like that was like coming four C full circle, saying like, this is not as final as I think.

It's just, it's a new chapter in my life. It's a new part. It was like I did it right when I was 39. Right now I'm 41. And, um, I, I'm not sure what the next 10 years are gonna be about, but what's cool is that I feel like I'm finally doing stuff because I want to do it. And, and I know, like me saying that I wanna stay at the practice, I know I wanna stay there, whereas I.

Three years ago. It's cuz I have to, I mean, I own so much of it. Um, I own just a small percent. I, I could tell I own 15% at this time. Um, I just don't know cuz I know they're always like doing new contracts. They don't like us sharing like, the details of what we sold and what we sold. But, but right now I own 15% at this point.

And, um, it's something that I still enjoy doing. And some people would say we, 15%, is it really worth it for you to even show up? I can tell you that I, I had tried to take three, four weeks off because of a hernia surgery, and then I got covid and, and then I had a vacation mixed in there too. right before I got covid and having a whole month off of work.

I mean, it's great to get caught up on Netflix. It's great to read a lot of books. At a certain point I was like, dude, this is like test out retirement and I don't like it. I want to go back to work. So this brings this whole different attitude when I'm at the practice. No. Now do I wanna be there five days a week, four days a week?

No. I don't even wanna be there that I'm, like, I'm there like two, five and a half hour days a week. That's it. But that's, that's a comfortable level for me just to kind of stay involved, stay in it, uh, talk with my leads, run the practice. Um, see some patients and that's, that's, that's a good level for me. I don't want any more than that, but, a lot easier to step back once you've sold a lot of equity because it's just not as much risk.

But way I'm living now. I could have lived it as a hundred percent owner than, you know, I didn't need to sell to do it. I just had to sell to realize it.

Michael: what I was gonna ask you. Do you think it's possible for someone to be like, I only wanna do like two clinical days, three clinical days, and.

Do whatever I want after other days. Right. Be with family and all that stuff. I mean, that's what I think a lot of people jump into ownership for not to be like, I wanna work forever and do all this. Yeah. It's more like I wanna have an imprint on the community, but at the same time I wanna work less, call my own hours.

And it really doesn't always work out that way though.

Paul: Well, I, I think you can and you, you need to have leaders at the practice that are running things for you. And I had a leadership team. Long before I sold, like I would say I had 'em like two and a half, three years before I established like an hygiene lead, an assistant lead.

I had my office manager, an insurance lead, and essentially, like I said, man, before Covid I'd be like, they do everything. But then one co once Covid happened, I was like, dude, I still do a lot. So after I sold and there wasn't as much incentive to really push production and, grow the practice and even though we're still growing like crazy, then I stepped back and I said, Hey, You guys know how I wanna do things?

Can you guys, like, just like when there's interpersonal stuff, can you deal with it with a new department and just come get me if you really, really need me. If, if something happens with the patient, can you guys just take care of it like I would And they're just like, I could totally do this. And then they did.

And it was, it was just weird because I went through like this like three month period of. Wow, everything's running so great at the practice. Nobody's complaining. Nobody's saying like, is upset about anything. And then I, I asked my, my assistant lead who's actually, I put her, I turned under my clinical lead now cuz she's kind of like the manager for everyone on the clinical side.

She's like, dude, like, man, it just feels so good. Like there's nothing going on. She's like, dude, there's tons of stuff going on. She's like, do you wanna know about 'em? She's like, you said you didn't wanna know. And I said, gosh, if you think I need to know about 'em, she's like, I don't think you do. They're under control.

And it was just like this liberating feeling of why. Wow. Like the practice is always gonna have issues. Somebody always has to deal with them, but all of a sudden it didn't have to be me. And I just kinda stepped back and I just trusted them. And I, like I said, I could have did that at a hundred percent owner.

It's a lot easier to do when you own 15% because the risk isn't there if the practice crash isn't burns, you know, um, doesn't hurt me that bad, but at the same time, like if I did it as a hundred percent owner and it really caused a lot of issues. Like, I would've found out about it. I would've pivoted, I would've addressed it.

It was just, I just think I was too scared to relinquish that control of something that was a hundred percent mine. I was just, I couldn't let go and get out of the way. But once I did, man, that was the game changer. It was just getting out of the way and trusting my people who have been with me for a long time, who I trust, who, who have seen how I lead.

And hopefully some of that has rubbed off on them and they do the right thing and. Dude, it's never run so well. I, I, I'm just I'm blown away by how well, uh, of a job they're doing. They're just doing so well. Hmm.

Michael: I like that. When, when you said, Hey, man, only come and get me when you really needed me.

What is that? Like? What, how do they know what is really needed? Right. Kind of thing. Yeah. Cause it's like you can be, I don't wanna bother Paul with that. I don't wanna bother Paul with that, but in your mind you're like, dang, I want to. That's embezzlement. I'm wanting to know that.

Paul: Right. I think that would be, that would be one. Um, I'm trying to think of some recent situation. Like, okay, I'll give you an instance that was pretty recent is we had an assistant that was, uh, just a great person, great with the patients, uh, super cool to be around, but when they ran behind out on schedules, she would kind of lose it and just, just overwhelm and just certain behavioral things would come out in her that were just not appropriate.

Um, just anger, you know, anger and frustration. Just couldn't hide it. And, um, my assistant lead, my, my clinical lead sat down with her and she had a conversation about it. Things got better for a little bit. She sat down and had another conversation about her, about it. What, like two, three weeks later when start, things started reverting back, and then she actually like wrote, documented this meeting like, this is what needs to change.

This is your understanding that if this doesn't change, then it's, this might be a termination thing. And then when it got to me, it was like, Hey, I'm doing everything I can. this girl is just making my life just, every, I hear her name every two days I hear something about her that she did.

Mm-hmm. She's like, I think we really need to start considering talking or letting her go. So then at that point, I had a conversation with her and things got better, like they usually do for about two, three weeks. And then, um, I had another conversation with her and it was, it was, it was hard because, She knew I was having her conversation with her, and she's like, Hey, I know what you're talking about. I know I need to change the stuff. I'm gonna get better. Like, da da, da. She's like, you know what, this person, this, this and this need to change. And I just had to cut her off. I'm like, Hey, I'm so sorry.

Today's your last day. We just can't do it anymore. so that was, that was my involvement. I had to let her go. But I mean, other than that, it's like big stuff. Like right now we're dropping Delta. We just, we just sent her a letter to Delta to get out of that network. coming up with some kind of ideas with the front desk.

Why is the front desk, why are people upset with who's doing what? How can we balance duties out? So it's all this interpersonal stuff. Like, like I walked up to the desk and, and somebody was rude to me and they responded rude. I don't deal with that no more. You know that they, they can handle that. They handled the scheduling, they handle the offs when people are taken off the duplication days.

everything. They're the ones having the one-on-ones, they're the ones giving the raises. Um, I mean, with my permission obviously, and yeah, I'm just, it's just, I, it's high level stuff. Like my high level right now where I'm at, where there's no noise and I'm just saying, Hey, we're working on getting out a network.

That's what we're doing. We're getting on networks. We're at capacity. We need to get our networks. What are we doing? How are we gonna organize the front desk to ride this experience? How are we gonna train these people on the verbiages that they have to use to be an auto network dentist? How are we gonna talk to patients about this?

Let's organize what we're gonna put on a mailer. So I'm just doing like, stuff like that, but it is just so nice to get outta that noise of the interpersonal stuff, man. Cuz we got 43 employees and always something, and I just, sometimes I'm like, why can't people just be cool?

Just be cool. Please. Just why can't you just be cool? And they're, it's just, it's not possible. You know, like there's always something going on. People are, um, everyone's got their emotional stuff and their own psychology, and people have expectations that don't get met by other people, and they're disappointed and, and people can be mean, you know?

Yeah, no. So, so sometimes you gotta get involved in that. But, um, yeah, for the most part, I'm not part of that. I'm, I'm doing the high level stuff, which is, it's so much fun, man. I love it. So it's, it's, it's part of the practice that I really do enjoy. Do

Michael: you ever review it like when it comes to your, your leads, like hey, we have a monthly review or a monthly, I don't know, meeting or whatever with just the leads and we're like, okay.

And then that's when you can kind of say like, Hey, that was a red, or do you give them red flags? Like, this is when, when things should be brought up to me. Right. Anything below that? No. Kind

Paul: of things like that. You know, I never had to really do that cuz I think they, there was a part of me that was really like kinda like, just take care of it.

I don't wanna know about it. And there was a part of me that was this kinda like miserable boss where. They were almost scared to bring me stuff. So I think when it got to the point where I was like, Hey, just take care of it, they had a pretty good idea of what I didn't want to deal with and I don't, I don't know, ma, maybe I trained the people good.

Maybe they're just wonderful people. It's really hard to say. I mean, they're definitely wonderful people, but, um, I haven't had to set too many expectations with, or what I want them to do. I mean, I told 'em what I want to do, but it's just been like little things here and there like. Correction. Like, Hey, I want you to take care of this.

You know, I want you to, I, I, this is what I want to happen. I don't care how you do it. Just what do you think? Can you run with it? They're like, yeah, I'll run with it. And, and even like the people that aren't my leads, like my one, one of my assistants was like, I think we should get the coffee bar back.

Cause we took it away during Covid. I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, I'll get a Keurig, I'll find some like cabinet or something like this. And then it's like three weeks later she's like, Hey, where's the coffee bar? I'm like, dude, you know me. I, it's on my to-do list. I'm never gonna get to it. Do you wanna run with it?

She's like, I'd love to. And then one day I just came in and there's a nice piece of furniture, fits the fridge right in it, it's all stocked. It's got the espresso machine. And I'm just like, dude, you killed it. This is awesome. Like, I would've never, I wouldn't have did this, I would've just stuck like a damn keigan, like a stool or something.

like that, you know? And like, we're good. There you go, girls. You know? So it's, um, but I think we really sell ourselves short and we don't realize how much our team wants to do if you give them the autonomy to do stuff. And, and I would just beg any listeners to try to say, Hey man, like what if I just.

What if I let somebody run with something and what, and what's the worst that can happen? You know, maybe you have an upset customer patient. it's not gonna crash your business. It would just, nothing that happens within one week, one month even that you do for 3, 4, 6 months is gonna crash your business.

I mean, to, to crash your business so that it burns completely. You'd have to really screw things up for a long time. You know, you'll have time to pivot and, and adjust and, and sometimes they. can't really think of any really main situations that's happened, but I mean, they're gonna have situations where they kinda screw up and that's cool too.

You know, I, I'm totally cool with that. I screwed things up. Um, I handle situations not as gracefully as I would in retrospect sometimes. A lot of times maybe. I think it's just part of that learning experience and growing into becoming a leader, but it's. Man, my leadership skills grew a whole lot when I stepped in a leadership position.

So if we want to build up the leadership people, like our, our leadership team and build them up, we gotta get outta the way and let them step in that position. And they gotta get some bumps and bruises too. Yeah,

Michael: no, yeah, you're right. I think it's kind of difficult, especially at the beginning stages when you're like fingers on the trigger on everything, right?

Like, it's like, this is my baby. Like I need to watch everything. And you only have like one or two. So can I ask you if, if like somebody who had like, I don't know, three, four employees right now At the beginning, right? Yeah. Starting up. and they're like, man, Paul, I want you to train me like you done it and I want you to help me find leaders.

Mm-hmm. So I can train them to be leaders just like you. Cuz I'm, I'm assuming like it's best to do that at the very beginning, right? Mm-hmm. Like, this is the set, this is who I wanna find. Who'd you

Paul: do that? Well, I, I would say if anyone's that small, I don't think you really need the leaders yet. I think you can like, kind of get outta the way for some people in your team.

I don't think it's established leaders yet. And the reason I say that is because all of my leads were never my longest employees. In, in that position. Like my assistant lead was not my longest assistant. my insurance lead was not the longest front desk person. Same thing with my front desk lead.

They weren't my longest standing seniority person. So what we did is we got to a point, and this is what I would recommend to people, I probably could have did it earlier than I did it, but we got to a point, maybe like 12, 15 people where started changing policies and how we were doing things, and it just kept coming up where someone's like, I didn't know we were doing it that way.

I do. We talked about at the meeting, oh, I didn't make the meeting. Or it was like, oh, I didn't hear that. I didn't realize, oh yeah, I forgot. You know, it's just like we started having all these communication breakdowns and then, and I was always big on I wanna meet one-on-one with every single team member and a certain point, man, it, that takes a long ass time.

Mm-hmm. We got like 15 people that's why we established the leadership teams. And what we did is we had everybody do like a, you know, anonymous ballot. So we said, you know, nominate your top three people for front desk lead for assistant lead. And we did like the ranked ballot system. So if like you were the first choice, you got three points.

If you were some second choice, you got two points just in case, like somebody was, not everybody's first choice, but they were most, most people's second choice, they would get picked over. And then I took 'em home and I counted 'em. And there was part of me that was like, if they don't pick the people, I pick, I'm just gonna lie about the results and say, this is who it was, because I wanted them to own it.

But they actually did. I mean, it was like, it was like unanimous and. The team knows who the leaders are. So I would say you gotta get a little bit, I mean, you can't make a lead lead assistant if you've got two assistants, cuz you got, then you got the lead and the not lead. You know, I would think you gotta get like three, four people in each department before you do it.

Now an office manager, I think that's a leadership position you could get right away. And that's somebody who you can trust and who can take care of the payroll stuff and could take care of stuff like knowing what people are making. yeah, that was something that I did pretty early and I would, I'd recommend doing that and.

You know, like my office manager role, what she does now is very different than what she did like eight years ago. and I just had somebody ask me recently, like, did you have a job description for office manager? I'm like, no. Like, it just like over time you just keep dumping things like, Hey man, like can you take care of this thing for me every month?

Yeah, I could do that. Cool. it just frees up you like, it frees it's a, it's delegation and, and you have to train 'em on it and, um, they'll do as much as you allow 'em to, you know, and I, I think you gotta give the. You gotta do the public blessing with the team. Like, Hey, this person was used to be your peer.

Now they're, now they're, you know, they're stepping into a new leadership role. You know, we're all friends here and they're not above you, but they are gonna take over a lot of stuff for me, and I want you to treat them as you would treat me the same respect. but yeah, man, it, it, it's, there's so many people that want their office manager and they, they hire, hey, hiring office manager.

And people say, Ooh, I got six years office manager experience. Dude, half these Office of Injuries don't know from shit. Like, they're like, I don't mean swear. nobody's put 'em in a position to really lead and just kind of run with things and, and be a self-starter.

just because you know everything about insurance and you can present treatment plans doesn't make you an office manager. So, I would urge anyone who wants to do this to, to really just say, Hey, this is what I want. This kind of, I want you to be this for the office. I want you to be able to handle disagreements between people.

When an upset patient calls, I want you to take care of it and just, just make it right without asking me for permission. Like, you don't need my permission. And just go with that. And as time goes, it will evolve that that role will evolve. But man, you're gonna get some really valuable people, people on your team, and they're gonna be valuable.

People that won't wanna lead because they love their jobs, they love that autonomy, they love the role they're in. Um, we just gotta, we gotta allow them to have it.

Michael: Okay. What policies did you start changing when you started, like miscommunication

Paul: and things like that? Oh, I don't remember what it was. It might have been, I, I think the big one was with ortho, is that we just, so we didn't forget to send the stuff out.

We started putting the models in a bin on my desk so that I could pull the models out, write up the diagnosis, and pull the stuff up so that I didn't forget that they didn't, it was like a backstop to say, Hey, like if the stuff doesn't go out, Here's, here's our, second parachute.

And I think, I think it was something like that. But I mean, just things like, just random stuff like this is our procedures cuz we've always been really big on procedures. I don't have to double check it that everybody has done their part. Mm-hmm. I want to create ways that they just get done.

And I can be assured that the previous part was done. Cuz there's so much in the dental office where we're so dependent on the previous step being done correctly. Like, I mean, dude, if the, if the insurance gets verified incorrectly, Then the treatment plan's incorrect, then the payment's incorrect. Then you, you gotta take an E o B and you gotta collect it and you now you gotta balance.

Now that's incorrect. Now the patient's pissed cuz you're incorrect. And it all this stuff just trickles down just because that insurance wasn't put incorrectly, you know? Mm-hmm. So, and there's so much like that in a dental office. So we've always been big on creating like things like that and trying to create these secondary, we call 'em backstops, just in case it falls through the cracks, we'll catch it.

And sometimes we don't, you know, but that's always a, a product of we dropped the ball. Okay guys, we dropped the ball. What happened? Talk to me about it. Let's not make anyone feel guilty. Let's not criticize each other. Let's just collaborate as a team and come up with a solution so that we can not do this again.

I have coaching clients that are always like, dude, like, I can't believe you have problems like this in your practice. Dude, my practice is just like, Everybody else's, it's never gonna be without problems. I don't care how tight your systems are, we are humans and humans make mistakes.

Mm-hmm. And we forget things and we have emotions and, and those emotions affect our decisions and our behaviors. And it's a complex world and yeah. There's always gonna be a drop in the ball in somewhere, you know? It just happens.

Michael: Yeah. How many days were you practicing before you

Paul: sold? So before I sold, I was at three days a week.

So I was doing three days a week. it should have been two days a week. And the one day was like my, like, Hey, let's lead, let's talk with my teams. let's train people day. But what was started happening was I was always getting booked on that day. The front desk would book me. Mm-hmm. Because they knew I was gonna be there.

Like, Hey, do you mind like just seeing this one patient, you're gonna be here. Right. I just take like 10 minutes. I mean, it, it is, I love, love when the team's like, dude, just, just come do this with me and just take like five minutes. I'm like, dude, got. 20 people that wanna do something with me for five minutes.

and you probably get it, you get people call, Hey, can I pick your brain for 10 minutes? It's never 10 minutes, you know, it's always like an hour. So it's like, so, um, I forgot what you, where was he going with this? What did you ask me? My, how many, how you practicing? You said three days?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I had that one day that it was still like, they would just book me. So they put one patient in there and then they'd see us was seeing a patient, so they put another one. So eventually I just stopped coming in on Monday. I said, Hey, I'm done on Mondays. I'm not doing it. so then it was just two full days a week, which eventually we got to two half days a week.

And I think now I'm. More like one and a half days a week. I take off like two or three weeks every month. But I, I'm not really practicing that much. I mean, last year we, we would say a really highly productive dentist, like, man, if you could produce a million with your own hands, I think last year I did like 360,000.

It wasn't a lot, but that's all I wanna do. So that's cool with me. And now that I'm like partly paid as an associate with the dsl, Some of my paychecks for every two weeks are pretty laughable. it's like, oh, well you are two weeks and you made a hundred bucks.

All right, cool. You know, it's like, cuz, but I'm cool with that cuz I'll take time off and, and I'm not, I'm not a producer anymore. I'm much more valuable to the practice as a leader and a trainer and just, um, reaping the benefits of ownership. Even though I still own, I don't own a hundred percent. I'm still reaping a lot of benefits from owning this large practice.

Michael: Yeah. Okay man. So you were practicing three days. Before, now you're at two days a week, right? Like about two, two half days, five hour days. Two, two and a half days. Yeah. why did you sell them?

Paul: you know, as you're looking at the dollars, you, there was always this fear of delta for so many, I mean, I have Delta's, 35% of my practice.

There was always this fear that my whole business model could change by the stroke of a pen. You know, we were, I 85% p p o, 15% cash. Um, 35% Delta Premier p o. And it was just like looking at the numbers, there's this consolidation happening in the industry. It's like, things are hot. It's like we're the, we're like where the housing market was like last summer, you know, it's like, This is the time to sell if I can sell. So it was just looking at numbers, looking at what I have saved up, looking at what, and I've always been doing like real estate investing, so I've got some passive income on the side coming from there. Oh. And just being like, can I. Float with this? Yeah. I mean, could it be really lucrative?

Yeah. I mean, it's been better than ever thought it could be. I mean, one of the great things I know I'm not doing a plug for, for MB two by any means, but one of the great things is they let us to, they let us invest in the company. And that's worked out really, really well. So I've actually made way more by selling than I would've keeping the ownership, if you can believe it.

Now is, is, are those returns gonna be here five, 10 years from now? I don't know. This is half because private equity really likes dentistry right now. but I can say there's a lot of ill feelings towards corporate, um, with my corporation. I don't feel that, I don't think any of the members do. And I will tell you, I didn't lose a single team member during the transition.

And for all intents and purposes, my team doesn't even know they exist. You know, it's, it's, it's still my practice and I think that's kind of what they're not saying. There's not some crappy ones out there that we should stay away from, but, I'm really happy with the decision that I made with mine.

Michael: Yeah. I've been hearing a lot about MB two actually. Like where they, so what, what do they do? Are they just A D S O?

Paul: Yeah. I mean, they call themselves A D P O, which is just, I think, just a way to brand themselves different from the D S O nastiness, uh, D P O P standing for partnership. And, um, you know, they just handle some stuff on the backend.

They, they handle my insurance collections and that stuff like that. They do the credentialing, they do the hr, they do, um, my marketing. Um, they do pretty much anything I ask them for that they can help me admin, backend wise, talking to the companies and, and getting in increases in the fee schedule, stuff like that.

But I mean, for, for the most part, I mean, I have a regional manager, her name's that she's great. And she's just like, gosh, I, I just hadn't been in practice forever. I feel like you never want me to come there. Like, I wanna do something for you. Like, what can I do? And I'm like, mm-hmm. We're good. We're totally good.

So they're cool with, like, they trust their partners to run the practices the way they, they want to, cuz they're very selective with who they partner with too. Mm-hmm. Um, and they just let us do what we want. You know, I'm, I'm still running it, it still feels like it's a hundred percent my practice. I, I make all the decisions.

If I need help, I reach out. If I don't want help, I don't. And for me, my practice was running pretty well. It was pretty systematized already. Last thing I wanted was a corporation to come in here and tell me, tell us how to do things. My team would've hated me. So, um, I, I found the group that would allow me to continue my autonomy and running the practice the way that I want to and taking care of patients the way I want to.

So, I mean, they're there for help, but I mean, for the most part it's, we've just banded together and we get the benefits of being a group. And we get the support that by no means are they the group that if you're like, dude, I can't do this anymore. I just want someone to come in and take over my practice and run it.

That's not the group. You know, there's, there's other groups that'll do that. And I think, I think that sounds really good, but you're probably gonna be miserable. You sign up with a group like that, you're not gonna about

Michael: that. Yeah. So then you mainly kind of did it for, I mean, how long were you running this on your own Nelson?

Paul: Um, right about eight years. Eight years.

Michael: Eight years, okay. Do you feel like it was, at one point you were kind of like, I don't want the weight of the world right now on me as of for right now, at least maybe later on, but right now I don't kind of thing. Is that what it

Paul: was? It was, yeah. Absolutely, man.

It was, it was just a heavy weight. That's the best way I could describe it. It was just always freaking there. And, and there was, and, and I've also done like life coaching and I've, I've always been a big fan of therapy and I've always been working with a therapist on and off for my, my whole maybe the past 15 years of my life.

And, um, it was just heavy man and it was just always there. And it was spilling over into other relationships where I was just kind of just grumpy, man. I was just overwhelmed and pissed off. And, It just seemed like my whole entire, as this practice grew from, you know, just me and three other girls to like this 45 person team and other doctors and specialists and stuff, and I just felt like this house of car is just gonna tip.

Any moment what is gonna be the, what's gonna be the Goldman Sachs of this practice, you know, like, what is, what's gonna happen? And, um, I felt like that the whole time that I was the a hundred percent owner that it was. And so it's me. It's my thought process, it's my mindset. it's my makeup of my just general relationship with anxiety and how I look at things.

But that can make me a very good leader and a very good business owner because I'm striving to try to get something that's gonna make me feel better. But at the same time, it's also like a curse because I never get to really feel comfortable about it. Mm-hmm. So for me, it was I just wanted that comfort.

I wanted to feel comfort. And it took, you know, some like, things happened in my life, like read a certain book, like some like aha moments. Um, one of the books was like, die was Zero. I'm not sure if you read with that, but it kind of talked about how we like build this big nest egg so that we can just retire when it's like, dude, we don't know how much time we have.

And if you take any money to the grave with you, essentially worked for that for free. That was free work you did, cuz you never got to enjoy the fruits of that labor. So why the hell try to save everything and start trying to enjoy life now? Man, I can go hiking, I can climb mountains, I can do all this stuff.

I might not be able to do that when I'm 50. I can play golf, like I can play golf five days a week if I want right now. And um, Monday my back might not allow me to do that. So why am I waiting until like, to build this big thing before I can retire? So I've kind of entered into this almost like mini retirement phase where, I would say like, it's not retirement, but it's, it's, it is freedom.

You know? Mm-hmm. It would be like the fire principles, I suppose. so it's like, dude, like that's totally cool. Like, you crazy. You're 39 years old. What the heck are you doing? Like, are you gonna do for the rest of your life? I'm like, I don't know. I'd love to be a fireman.

Apparently I'm too old for that. I guess you gotta be like 30 or something. I don't know. I'd like to go do something different, you know? And, uh, I don't know what that's gonna be. And you know what, if it's really dentistry and I just really love it and I wanna own a hundred percent practice, I go do it again.

I'll do it faster, I'll do it better. And um, yeah, I'll do it better than I did it last time. You know, I, I'm comfortable with that, that, I can do that. And then as a fail safe, I can always go back to just for doing dentistry five days a week as an associate. If I like, I mean, I can do whatever. How can I want?

so, but, but I've got that comfort now and, and I was always seeking that, which is I think is part of the motivation behind me reaching all these success points. Cuz I was trying to find something, man, once I get that, it's gonna feel good, it's gonna feel different. It never did. I had everything I needed the whole time.

It just had to get to the end to kind of realize that. Yeah.

Michael: Do you think maybe you kind of, like you were thinking you were reaching something, but really you were kind of running away from something? Hmm. You know what I mean? Like maybe something in the past where you're like, I, I never want to feel that feeling again.

I never wanna get to that situation again. And you just kept running and running and running. Maybe

Paul: I, I think for me, I was running away from just a general sense of anxiety and for me to stay busy at work, felt good. You know, and, and people like, I like to say, man, I grinded these years, man. I grinded so hard.

It wasn't a grind. I mean, it was hard, but it was like, I was drawn to it. I liked doing it. I didn't like sitting, I hate sitting. to the detriment of my family, it was hard just to sit and just be, it was always like, man, I should get some more stuff done. What do I got to do? Like, what do I gotta do this week?

I should get it done so I, so I can relax. And then what would happen is I would get all the stuff done and I wouldn't relax. I'd be thinking about, man, what else can I do? And, um, Just got myself really overbooked with, I mean, with the podcast, with the writing and, uh, the practice and the real estate and, and doing like separate, like just teaching videos, coaching, consulting and stuff.

I mean, I was just overbooked it was like I just wasn't comfortable sitting and through therapy through my life coach. My life coach really made a really big difference. And she even said like, I took my coaching clients. I cut 'em down from 15 to five. And she said, what do you think about making a commitment for the next six months that you won't take on any projects?

I said, sure, let's, let's do it. So we committed to it, but damn, it was hard. cuz I started having all this time that I wasn't used to. I'm like, what do I do with this time? I'm like, I should start another project. Maybe I'll write another book. Maybe I'll do this. And I'm like, no, no more projects until six months from now.

And through that process, it's almost like I discovered this part of myself that I was kind of. Not comfortable with was just doing nothing. Just watching tv, just like sitting, putting my daughter to bed and, and laying in bed with her for like 45 minutes to an hour and just talking to her about her day.

Whereas I would be like, okay, I gotta get these kids to bed. I got stuff to do. committing to a one, one or two date nights with my wife every week, like, as like a priority. Like, it's not like we can, if we can find time and, and not to say that my relationships with my family was bad before, but.

Man, it, it's night and day to how it is now, but I had to, it was uncomfortable at first to sit and just be idle because it felt, that's what it felt like to me. It felt like idleness and I didn't like that. But then I had to start realizing then, and then you, connect and you're like, man, I really like this.

This is okay. Like I don't have to be running and. in rat racing my whole entire life, what the hell is it worth? And just looking at what are we doing this for? Like this, these deep like spiritual, like conscious, like, the spirituality of like, what are we here for? What are, what are, what is our purpose?

What are we here to do? And so it was just everything kind of happened in a succession and I think it happened for a reason. I wish I could have skipped a lot of parts of it. But I don't think I would've came out to where I'm at if I did skip those parts. So it's like if I could change things, I would've done 'em differently, but I wouldn't know what I know if I hadn't done things the way I did 'em.

Michael: Mm-hmm. Yeah, man, that's true. Like, I remember I used to feel bad all the time about like relaxing, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then you go on social media and people are like, I'm hustling, I'm grinding, and all these things. Yeah. And I, I feel like whenever you're, not doing nothing, like when you're doing nothing kind of thing, That's when a lot of creativity can spark.

But we live in a day and age where we call that boredom. Yeah. And so we're like, oh, he's just bored. But we gotta be good with that. We gotta be good with feeling like we're not doing nothing for, you know what I mean? Like being in the moment kind of thing. Absolutely. Um, or else for ne we not, you can tell the world's not creative as much as it used to be.

Right. We're just like regurgitating stuff from the past and the past and the past and cuz we can't. We feel guilty for relaxing, I guess,

Paul: huh? Well, I'll, I'll tell you something I do, and this is gonna sound like some like major, like old man stuff for people, but like, I got this recliner in my bedroom and, and people always come in my bedroom and they say, why is this recliner not based on the tv?

Because you can't see, you can't see the TV from the recliner. And it, it, it was like originally bought as like, I wanna read in this chair. But you know, a lot of times, like, dude, I just sit in that chair and it's right by a window. Open the window, listen to birds. And I just sit, man. And sometimes I fall asleep and sometimes I don't.

And it's just nice just to, it's relaxing, but it's, it's not me relaxing watching something being distracted. It's me just sitting with my thoughts, just focusing on my breath, and just chilling out. And for me before that would be like, dude, Do something. Look at all this time, you're wasting doing nothing.

That's not a waste of time. That is for me. And that's what recharges me and makes me feel good. And I, I never realized it before. Mm-hmm.

Michael: I like that man. So then when did the second book come out? Like was that out of, uh,

Paul: After six months or so, you, you'll, you'll, this is all tied together now, where this book came from.

This, I wrote this during Covid. So this was me being home with nothing to do 24 hours a day and being like, I got all this time. Let's write another book. And you know what, what I realized my first book was kind of where I was at the time that I wrote it. And, and the books are, they're always written about two years before they come out.

So, the first book was about running an amazing practice. This book was about how I stepped out of the chair. And what I noticed in my income as well, the growth, growth of the practice, when I started just like leading and training and like realizing that I'm more valuable as a trainer than I am as a producer.

Cuz there was a certain point where I looked at my practice and I said, okay, like if I treat myself as an associate and I pay myself 30% of my production, how much did I take home last year? That was because I got paid 30% of my production and it was like 15%. So the other 85% of my take home income was because I was an owner.

But then I was spending 90% of my time doing production activities and maybe 10% doing ownership a activities. So as much as my patients love me and they wanna see me, and the Hi Jess, love working with me and everyone wants to work with Dr. Etch, I was way more valuable spreading my uh, Training and, and what I knew and helping other people grow at the practice I was monetarily and for, for them too, like, I mean, just being present and working with people.

Um, I was more valuable doing that. It was much more, uh, financially rewarding and it was me producing dentistry. And that kind of made me realize, man, I'm just, I just stopped doing fillings, eventually stopped doing crowns. stop doing endo and, and now all I do is I do banded bracket on kids in Invisalign.

You know, that's pretty much my whole five and a half hour day. And then my other five hour day is just me doing like veneers and placing an implant or two. But, I think next year I only have maybe eight of those days that I booked for 2024. And so it's, I'm sorry, 2023. I think I only have eight of those days that I'm doing that.

And the team might wrote me into doing some more, but I kind of don't want to, I just wanna, I love doing ortho. Yeah. I's, uh, the other part's starting to wear on me? ortho is predictable and everything else in dentistry to me is it's, it's unpredictable. I mean, to some extent, and I just think I don't like that level of predictability or of unpredictability.

I don't have that level of unpredictability with my team, you know, with my team. So it's doing what I enjoy doing, and it's what the practice needs. Every practice needs a person. I mean, if you could focus full time on running your practice, Man, what would your practice do? So that, that's the purpose of the book, is like, how do we get ourselves outta the chair?

And for me it's a lot of leadership principles such as like you owning everything like your locus of control, I call it. Um, balancing your, your regular workload with what I call celebratory work with. Just like this is the stuff, this is the investments in time, this is you training someone else to do something.

This is your delegation. just making sure that you've got a compass that's, that's guiding you, that every decision, little decision you make is taking you there. there's a lot of mindset stuff that I think is more important than the actual mechanics. The second half of the book talks about the mechanics and what I think are the best systems, the best things for treatment plan, presentation, what things we can train our team on to make our practices better. But I think ultimately that beginning part of the book, that first half is what's really important. That's the leadership. That's communication. How do we deal with team? What kind of attitude do we approach?

Conflict? What kind of attitude do we approach growth and, and collaboration? And, and that's kind of all in there because I think that's something I've learned. Maybe I had an inclination. I was kind of lucky that this came easy to me. But, um, That's what I think has made the biggest difference in my practice.

It's not the what, it's the how we've done it and, and, and the meaning behind it rather than the actual, this is what we did. If that makes sense.

Michael: Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Uh uh, uh, instructions are always better, right? Like, give me the meat and potatoes of everything. Not so much like the, nobody wants to fluff, right?

Mm-hmm. Uh, of anything. But, um, I think that's really interesting when it comes to the marketing side of your practice. Mm-hmm. And, um, Your systems? How did that come along?

Paul: For marketing specifically, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. So for marketing, we used to try a lot of modalities. We would try like, I mean we tried like the ads, the sponsorships and stuff like that, and we still do some team sponsorships, but I would say we don't do mailers anymore.

It's kind of just come into what I think is the most important is just seo your digital image, like your DI digital reputation. And making sure that when people are searching you, that uh, you show up and that you have a nice website and, uh, some nice media and pictures and, and videos on there to back it up.

And then it's like, I mean, marketing, we're trying to generate a phone call. We've gotta follow through by having nice patient experience on that end. I don't think the majority of our patients come from either the internet or existing patients. Typically right now are seeing about 180 new patients a month.

We've seen when we came six months after Covid, when we had a ton of availability, we saw like 230, which was a huge indicator to me that, man, we could really blow these doors open if we could find some more hygienists. But, yeah, I haven't cracked that. Not yet. I haven't figured that one out yet. I don't know where they all went.

They all went, moved some island or something. Yeah. And uh, I think the biggest thing is, is for us is digital. I mean, we pay per click, um, just Facebook stuff and, you know, and I, I tell my coaching clients all the time, You'd be blown away how many new patients you could see if one, you stayed open late or two when you saw a new patient.

You tried to get the rest of the family to book if when they came in there for visit. And I can't tell you how many coaching classes don't do that. They're just like, man, like we just started getting so many new patients. Cuz we just started asking. And it's not like you're asking like, Hey, you got anybody looking?

You know anyone looking for a good dentistry? It's not doing that. It's saying, Hey, is there anyone else in your family you wanna make an appointment for? And then they'll say, oh, my husband, he's, he's busy. I'll have him call. Well, why don't we just make an appointment and he can call if it, when it gets closer, he'll get some reminder texts if he needs to change it.

Okay. You know, you just get him on the schedule and not be pushy. I mean, but, um, doesn't cost a sign. Yeah. I mean that's just, that's just normal. That's just having a checkout protocol that your team follows and you just hold them accountable to it. Yeah, you're right. That's

Michael: not being pushy. It's just like, it's being easy.

Like, hey, let's just get 'em on that, you know what I mean? Like, put him on there. Right now it's no, no, no issue. You know what I mean? Kind of thing.

Paul: Well, you gotta make your appointment. I mean, I had to do, my cholesterol was high and he, my doctor wanted to put me on some cholesterol. I'm like, dude, man, I've been eating crappy.

I'm drinking a lot. You know, give me two months to get this together and I'll come back and I'll get it straightened out. So I went back and I took blood and everything was straightened out, but it was like 18 months later and he's like, he's like, I told you come back in two months. You waited a year and a half.

I'm like, no, like show me the chart. And he's like, I'm like, dude, wow. I thought it was like five months maybe. I knew I was behind. But you don't, you don't make that next appointment. You get lost. Life gets busy.

Michael: Yeah, life gets busy. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And you don't think it does right at all, but it does.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're right, man. Yeah. Awesome man. I appreciate you opening up a little bit. You know what I mean? Talking to us about, How it's been going on, why the book came out, but at the same time, um, the, the feelings behind selling, right. The motive behind it, because I, I do, I do agree with that.

Sometimes we feel like, oh, we gotta retire, and then you get a taste of it and you're like, I can't do this. Yeah. I can't, like so much Netflix, you go watch, like you said, and, and all these other stuff and, and do things on the side. So there is a thing, I think a sweet spot where it's like hybrid retiring or something like that, right.

Where you just, mm-hmm. You're doing what you want, making money, but you can do this forever if you, you know what I mean? Kind of thing. Yeah, I do, I do

video1985894603-cm: agree

Paul: with that. That's where I, I think I'm at now. Like, I'll tell you, I, where I'm at right now is we're recording this, it's almost 3:00 PM mm-hmm.

And I woke up at seven o'clock. I made my kids breakfast. I got 'em off to school. I went to bed from 8:00 AM to about noon. People think it's crazy, but this is what I do every single day. I go to bed till about noon, and then I went and I worked out with a person, trainer, came here, took a shower, and I'm spending with you and my kids are getting home from school and this is, this was my day and this was a productive day because I got to do this with you.

So this is a check the box today just by talking to you for an hour. So, so, but yeah, that's where I think I'm at. And um, and I have some days where I have a lot of coaching calls too that, that are more busy, but I'm, I'm not doing more than four or five hours a day. That's, that's, I think that's a realistic level that I can do the rest of my life.

And it is like that Brony Ware book, the Five Regrets of the Dying. one was that they worked too much. two I think was that they didn't stay in touch with friends. I, one, that one that stuck with me was. I lived my life to every other people's expectations instead of doing what I thought was in my heart.

And I feel like that's what I'm doing now. And I think a lot of us just need to sit back and say, man, what do I really want outta life? Because if you sit down and you say, what do I want? And you say, well, how do I get that? Who has what I want? What do they do? It's just a matter of just following the steps and getting it done, and just being kind of laser focused on this is what you want.

And that's saying no to stuff and putting up boundaries, but. You know, you gotta live life for you. And I think a lot of us don't do that. And that's kind of just where my new take is. And I, and I don't wanna give the impression, I figured it all out. I, man, I, I'm just as messy as everybody else.

But, um, I, I, I like where I'm at. I'm excited for the next chapter.

Michael: Yeah, I agree with that, man. It's crazy you say that, not that long ago. You know how some people kind of talk about like, yeah, I wanna build my legacy and I wanna build like an empire for myself. And I remember talking about that and I was like, do I. Really wanna do that. Right? Right. Like it, it sounds cool. It sounds nice, and I would, I would say that, but then I'm like, I think I just want to spend time with the people I want to spend time with and do what I want to do and whatever. Ha, you know what I mean, kind of thing. I'd rather have that than being like, I.

I grind and I build this empire, but like my kids hit me or something.

Paul: You know what I mean? Crazy. Hey. Exactly. And then they're gonna go to college and they don't wanna be around you. And then, Hey kids, let's spend time now. Dude, I'm already growing up. Yeah, you weren't there when I need you. It, it's funny like the things that we want and I find myself doing it too cuz I'm very happy with my house, very happy with my cars, everything I own and stuff and, and I don't really see myself making more money to have more possessions.

But then here comes my brother-in-law just built a brand new house and man, does it look awesome. And man, do I want, well, I'm just like, dude, uh, I really liked my house, but now I kind of like your house. So, so now I'm like, well, maybe I do want more things. I'm like, I, I have to check myself. Like, no, it's not gonna change anything.

It's, it's just going to, you'll, you'll eventually reach that baseline again. But, uh, it's, it's human to want, you know, it's, it's just how we are. I think that's true.

Michael: It's human day one compared to, right. You're like, oh man, that person's doing that. And we have like, so much to. Social media, right? Like you're always kind of like unwanting, like comparing kind of thing.

So, You just got, you're right. Has to check yourself, like nip it in the bud and be like, Nope, nah, I don't, I don't think I'm gonna do that. You know, kind of thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I appreciate you, man. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. We, if anybody has questions, concerns, or wants more information on your coaching, where can they reach out to you?

Paul: Yeah. Dental practice heroes.com. Um, the podcast is Dental Practice Heroes, but yeah, dental practice heroes.com. It's got my books, my coaching, um, my teaching stuff, just some videos, business training, stuff like that. So, and there's a contact form. You can contact me there. You can also go and schedule a call with me if you want, or you can schedule a call with any of my leads.

They're also available too. You can just schedule, use the online scheduler that's on the coaching tab. So, um, yeah, man, like thanks for having me, dude. I always, I had a really good time talking.

Michael: Oh yeah. Awesome. So guys, that's all gonna be in the show notes below. And Paul, thank you for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon.

All right, thanks.

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