Jessica is joined by her friend Jeff, who talks about what it's like to enjoy a clean and sober life after years of heavy drug and alcohol use, and how to handle staying sober when tragedy strikes.

Show Notes:

ASMR - I originally discovered it on Holly Whitaker's blog, Hip Sobriety, and her toolbox post

my personal fave: crunchy leaves ASMR (BTW, how annoying are YouTube ads?)