Andrew Holecek is a recognized expert on lucid dreaming and dream yoga, but is he playing it safe?

photo by: Skeptiko

[Clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:35]
Now I could try and explain how that clip from Step Brothers relates to this show, but that would just be throwing gas on the fire. 
Here’s a clip from my interview with Andrew Holecek.  
Alex Tsakiris: [00:00:46] Why this resistance to just calling out Sue Blackmore. You quoted her in the paper, did you know who she was? 
Andrew Holecek: [00:00:52] I knew who she was, for sure. Yeah, she’s an interesting character. So again, even within that my friend, I’m just trying to be a little bit more clear about where you want me to go with this.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:02] Why did you quote Sue Blackmore as an example of that?  
Andrew Holecek: [00:01:04] Because she has some interesting things to say.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:05] What does she have that’s interesting to say? 
Andrew Holecek: [00:01:08] She has a very vast array of contributions. 
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:14] She doesn’t have anything interesting to say because she thinks consciousness is an illusion and an epiphenomenon of the brain. She got that question wrong on the test, so she wasn’t allowed to go to part B, C, D.   
Well, you keep saying that, but you kind of won’t go there.  
Andrew Holecek: [00:01:34] Where do you want me to go? I don’t know, what’s the question? 
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:37] Oh man, come on. 
Andrew Holecek: [00:01:38] No really. 
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:38] What do you think, you heard both of these guys, what do you think?
Andrew Holecek: [00:01:42] Well, again, I’m trying to just be a little bit articulate. What do I think about what? Because they both covered some amazing topics.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:49] What did you think was amazing? 
Andrew Holecek: [00:01:51] Well, I mean, again, what I find provocative and I’m not here to judge either of them, that’s just not the way I roll. What I find compelling… 
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:58] We’re always judging everyone. I hate when people say that. Of course, you’re either judging positively or judging negatively, but judge feel free. This is a judge-friendly zone. 
Andrew Holecek: [00:02:08] What I find compelling about what Charlie says is that again, we live in a universe, in a world where there is plenty of room for other forms of reality. 

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Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:23] Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Tsakiris, and today we welcome Andrew Holecek to Skeptiko. 
Andrew is the author of books like Dream Yoga: Illuminating Your Life Through Lucid Dreaming and the Tibetan Yogas of Sleep and Preparing to Die: Practical Advice and Spiritual Wisdom from the Tibetan Buddhist Tradition. So, we’re definitely going to want to talk about all of that, especially as it relates to the recent conversations I’ve been having with… I just had lucid dream teacher, Charlie Morley, who you may or heard of him. 
Andrew Holecek: [00:03:05] Yeah, I’ve heard of him, yeah.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:03:07] Okay, so that’s interesting.