"In this episode, we return to Church Street Brewing in Itasca, nearly 4 years after we first talked to them (Pubcast 107, July 6, 2013), and find out what has changed and taste some of their new brews. Joining Mark and Phil today are head brewer, T.J. Bachorz, assistant brewer Chuck Fort, and halfway through the show Illinois beer glass collector and historian, John Bittermann stops by. Join us for friendly conversation and a sampling session, including what makes white stout white and how it differs from a regular stout. For the comparison, we throw in another can of UK brew from Harveys, their Black Stout. Big thanks to owner Lisa Gregor who also stopped by, and T.J allowing us to record our show, live in the taproom."