‘Mentorship is more important than courses’ – said lots of wise Dentists, and I think they’re right!

Do you have a mentor guiding you in your dental career?

How do you know if you’re making the right clinical decisions?

In this episode, Jaz is joined by Damian Panchal and Shivani Sadani to discuss the power of mentorship in dentistry. They explore why having a mentor can accelerate your growth, boost your confidence, and help you navigate complex cases with ease.

They also introduce Intaglio, a brand-new platform designed to connect dentists with experienced mentors—so you can get real-time guidance, solve cases faster, and elevate your practice like never before.

Listen in to learn why mentorship might be the best investment you make in your career.

Key Takeaways:

• 
  
• Mentorship is essential for professional growth in dentistry.
  
• Post-course support is increasingly important for new dentists.
  
• Real-world experience is crucial for applying theoretical knowledge.
  
• Investing in mentorship can lead to long-term benefits in practice.
  
• Effective mentorship can significantly improve clinical confidence and skills. 
  
• Mentorship is accessible and affordable for all levels.
  
• The value of mentorship lies in its application of knowledge.
  
• Mentors can help navigate career challenges beyond clinical skills.
  
• Relatable mentors can provide the best guidance.
  
• Learning from others’ mistakes can save time and effort.
  

Need to Read it? Check out the Full Episode Transcript below!

Highlights of this episode:

• 
  
• 00:00 Introduction
  
• 00:48 Introducing Intaglio: A New Mentorship Platform
  
• 01:45 Damian Panchala and Shivani Sedani – Personal Journeys
  
• 04:46 Mentorship Crisis in Dentistry
  
• 11:51 The Role of Social Media and Forums in Mentorship
  
• 17:41 The Value of Paid Mentorship
  
• 21:03 Exploring the Intaglio Platform
  
• 23:44 The Role of Mentors Beyond Clinical Help
  
• 31:05 Intaglio’s Vision and Future Plans
  

This episode is not eligible for CPD/CE points, but never fear, there are hundreds of hours of CPD waiting for you on the Ultimate Education Plan, including Premium clinical workthroughs and Masterclasses.

Teaser: Are people willing to pay for mentorship? Okay. And actually, I think it was very validating because this is already happening in the implant space to a very big degree. Like, okay, I don't know the details there. Maybe you guys do.

[Jaz]
But if you’re someone who’s learning to place implants, though, your first X number of implants, you’re probably going to make a loss on because you’re going to buy all the stuff, buy all the kit, give up your clinical time, but all the fee that your patients paying you, you’re pretty much paying to your mentor. And so that’s a huge investment in yourself, but the ROI is exponential.

[Damian]
So there’s only one way to learn these cases, which is you need someone holding your hand until that confidence builds. So yes, you may lose a little bit of money, lose a bit of time in the early days. But it’s all going to come back in a full circle and that confidence and that money will return.

Jaz’s Introduction:
Protruserati, I’m going to say it how it is. Mentorship is the number one thing you need to excel and grow as a dentist. It’s more important than courses. The courses are important because they give you the skills. They give you the knowledge. But you know when you get stuck? At the point of application.

That’s when we bounce ideas off each other, even like basic stuff, like should I extract this tooth on this patient on that medication? And thankfully with the Protrusive Guidance app and having a community of practice and like minded individuals, we can help each other. But sometimes you just need in depth help, like someone to just hold your hand and talk you through exactly how to solve a problem or a case.

Mentorship is already huge in the implant world and it’s growing in the ortho world and I think there’s a space for it in all disciplines of dentistry. In this episode, I’m joined by Damian Panchal and Shivani Sadani, and the three of us are some of the co founders of Intaglio. We’ve finally launched.

This is the platform where you can literally go on and find a mentor, book them, pay them, because we’re promoting fair exchange. But what you get is a dedicated time with a mentor. And like I said, this is already happening in the implant, the ortho world, orthodontists are meeting dentists on zoom and just guiding them on what bracket changes to do or how they would treat implant a certain case.

And the mentee, that dentist is now able to solve the case. So mentorship actually has a Better ROI than the courses. Mentorship has the power to give you confidence to move forward in the case, to sleep well at night, and to give you validation that the plan you have or what you want to do is the best way forward for your patient or your problem in your career. Listen to the full episode to find out how now you can find a mentor in five seconds flat. I’ll catch you in the outro.

Main Episode:
Damian Panchal, Shivani Sudhani. Welcome to the Protrusive Dental Podcast. So, so nice to have you. I’ve been working with you guys for a while now, and it’s great to chat about such a huge, huge problem and a huge solution in dentistry, finding mentors, the whole mentorship dilemma.

So quite often when I introduce guests, I like to sort of remind myself and talk out loud about how our first interaction happened. And I remember getting this email from you and you’d email me saying that, look, I have this idea of solving the mentorship crisis, right? And then the first thing I think of when someone has a great idea is something that Gary V said many years ago.

And he said, like, everyone had the idea for Uber. Like everyone, everyone wanted KFC to deliver, you guys are veggies, maybe not you, but I wanted KFC to deliver, right? So everyone thought of the idea, it’s the person who implements, okay, that is the person who gets to make that actual change, right? So implementation is difficult.

And so when you approached me with this idea of, okay, I think we can solve the mentorship crisis, I was very skeptical. And it’s only when I spoke to you while I was driving back from Reading, and then you just told me your background, I was like, holy crap, okay, here’s someone who actually has some skin in the game when it comes to developing something, to creating something, okay, and is a dentist, and that’s why I signed the dotted line and I just agreed to work with you guys to solve this crisis, so tell us more about you in that kind of domain, Damian.

[Damian]
Firstly, Jaz, thank you for having us on today, it’s great to finally speak with you again. So, I am a dentist, but I got bit by the entrepreneurship bug many years ago. I cut down my clinical dentistry when I realized my true passion laid elsewhere. Trying to use the knowledge that we’ve got from dentistry and applying it to, like you said, solving the problems within the field.

And who better to do that than dentist themselves. So over the years, my clinical dentistry phased down and my entrepreneurship phased up. And it’s been a pleasure and true excitement to work on Intaglio for the past couple of years.

[Jaz]
Amazing. And then in terms of the type of dentistry you do, it’s just general dentistry, right?

[Damian]
General dentistry with a focus mainly on clear aligners. I just keep my skin in the game and see what’s happening on the ground and then I can use that knowledge to see what we can do in the entrepreneurial world.

[Jaz]
And I think what we’ll talk about is, how mentorship in the clear aligner spaces has boomed. I think there’s a such a huge potential there already in implants. It’s such a big thing. And I feel like, with aligners and orthos just scratched the surface, but Shivani, tell us about yourself, where do you work and what are your passions?

[Shivani]
So, similar to Damian, obviously I started doing full time dentistry. I then eventually started to phase down. So I’m actually from London, but currently working in Hertfordshire. So I work in private practice at the moment. I do general and some sort of, like, cosmetic dentistry on the side, as most people do. But keeping my foot in everything at the moment, really.

So yeah, just balancing my time between dentistry and Intaglio. So it’s been adventurous, last few years and we’re coming to the point now we’re sort of ready to launch and we’re amazed by the amount of support we’ve received so far really.

[Jaz]
It’s true. The emails we get saying that guys, this is what we needed kind of thing. And so, it’s great to have it, but I think let’s just tap into why there is a problem with mentorship and dentistry in the first place. Right? So here’s my analogy, right? You want to achieve a goal, right? And so let’s say you are someone who wants to get, you’re at point A and you want to get to point B.

You’ve noticed your destination. You can look at point B and say, okay, I need to get there. Okay. And so the car, the vehicle, is the courses you go on. Because then school didn’t prepare us enough, okay? The vehicle is the car, but you still need the driver, which is you, you still need to work hard to get there. But it is nothing. It’s missing a vital ingredient without either the diesel or the battery. If you’re an EV guy like me, so you need the energy source and and that’s where I think mentorship comes in. Mentorship is what propels you. Mentorship is what’s get you to get you there. The skills you gain from the courses, but the application and the implementation of those skills on those cases that you see, it’s very difficult to do that.

And that’s why so many people go on implant courses and never place an implant. So many people go on the ortho courses and have a very slow start. And they could have been way further ahead had they had good mentorship. And you see those people who had good mentorship, like maybe their mom or dad’s a dentist and they’re in the practice the whole time.

And I’ve seen those clinicians fly. Because they had a constant mentor there, right? Who’s not going to ask for any money, right? And so that’s why they fly. And so it’s a huge thing. And we all know it. I think it’s been drummed into us enough. It’s one of those foundational things. So tell me guys, in terms of what your experiences have been of this problem of mentorship and dentistry that we’re trying to solve.

[Damian]
So Intaglio was actually driven out of this exact problem for me as a mentee. So let’s go back to, we graduated in 2018 and you, I’m sure everyone’s experienced with family and friends saying, right, can you sort my teeth out now? So that journey was between me and my sister. So from the day I graduated, it’s when are you sorting my teeth out?

And I delayed it and delayed it because I knew that we needed some sort of clear aligners or orthodontic correction. And fast forward four years of nagging, I said, right, let’s go on this aligner course and let’s get her sorted out.

[Jaz]
See, that’s good, Damian, because you had your first case ready. Like, that is so, so good. Like, any course you go on, if you have the first few cases ready, you’ll be able to apply it. You actually, that’s half the fuel already in the tank.

[Damian]
Exactly. So I was primed and ready to go. Went on the course, and next day the message, right? Are we ready to go now? You’ve been on the course, you know what you’re doing, right? And I was like, can you just give me a few more months? I just want to practice a little bit more. I just want to do a few more cases. I want to do this properly for you. I don’t want to mess this up. So I pushed her along a little bit further and then I couldn’t kick that can down the road anymore. Now there was no other excuses.

The time would come. So we got her in, we did a scan, put it onto Invisalign ClinCheck and looked at it. And I realized, I really didn’t know what I was doing. It was too complicated. There was movements going on, I had no idea whether that movement was going to happen. I realised they need some sort of elastics or buttons, but they just use those words on the course, but they didn’t tell you how to do anything with it.

Which tooth with the button, which tooth with the elastic? So I thought, you know what, they told us on the course, we have a, what did they call it? Clinical guidance or mentorship call you can book with Invisalign.

[Jaz]
It’s like a case cafe kind of thing, right? Just for the younger colleagues who are listening and watching this, maybe the students, like when you go on a course provided by an aligner company, they just tell you how to use their software and their aligner.

You still have to learn the ortho yourself, right? And we all fall into this trap. Now, how did I start? I went the same way, except I was lucky. I had Hap Gill at the practice. He was my mentor and he literally held my hand first few cases, right? So, and you need that, you need that. And so I’m guessing you didn’t have that?

[Damian]
No, I wasn’t in that fortunate position. I was surrounded by a lot of implant dentists, but not many ortho dentists. So, not a problem, it’s okay, I’ve got the support. I’ll log on to this one on one call with the clinical tutor, as I thought. And we did a screen share, I looked at it. And the first question they asked me is, right, what do you think?

And I explained what my concerns were. And then I was asking for some advice. How can I do this? How do I fix this? And they said, yes, I agree. It’s quite a complicated case. I suggest you use your own clinical discretion. And that word just stayed with me. Clinical discretion. I don’t know what I’m doing. So the clinical discretion doesn’t really get me out of this hole.

So I realised this half an hour call wasn’t going anywhere. I took a couple of pointers and I thought, It’s not a problem. I’ll book another call. Chances are I’ll get someone different. And hopefully we’ll get the answers I need to actually sort this out. So you wait two weeks, three weeks for a call when there’s a next slot.

And luckily I was excited. I got someone different. Let’s start again. Let’s start fresh. Pretend I know nothing. And get these questions answered. What do you know? Same words came up again. Use your clinical discretion. And I thought, this can’t be that difficult. Why can’t I just get the answers I need?

They helped me on the simpler cases, but when it got a bit more complex, it kind of felt like there was some resistance there, there was a barrier, and they didn’t want to quite truly answer my question. And I thought, okay. So their advice then was, after the clinical discretion was, we suggest you find a specialist. If you’ve got a friend or a family who’s a specialist orthodontist, why don’t you run this case past them and that’s the way to go.

So that’s as far as I got with Invisalign. So my sister’s pestering me now. We did a scan, what, four or five weeks ago. How long does it take? Can we get started? And I’m five weeks along and literally not even a millimeter of progress has been made. So you know what, back to the drawing board. Let’s reach out to family, friends, colleagues.

A few people suggested some very good orthodontists nearby, so I did a bit of cold emailing. I got a couple of numbers, I texted someone, gave it a week or so, but once again, no response. Then, we’re going round in circles here, and then I had a colleague who had a sister who had a colleague who said, I think I can help you, and she gave me a number, and she said, give me a call, Wednesday, five o’clock, and I’ll go through this case with you.

I’m so thankful we’re eight weeks down the line and I finally got someone who knows what they’re talking about that’s going to help me. So I think the call was on Zoom or WhatsApp, can’t quite remember. I was all prepared on my table, ready to make notes, get these questions answered. And she was on her way back from the Lake District in her car with a family of five, with three kids at the back. And I was so appreciative for her time. And I could see how busy of a woman she was, and she was excellent.

[Jaz]
Wait, three kids is no joke, man. Being an ortho and three kids is like, holy moly.

[Damian]
A lot of respect for her, a lot of respect. And she was doing her best to help me, considering she was driving through the Lake District with questionable signal, kids demanding her attention in the back, me trying to pester her as many questions I can get out of this 20 minutes that I’ve got with her.

And I just thought, this can’t be the answer. There must be an easier way to get this sorted. I just went along with her advice, she gave me the answers that I needed, and I just ordered the case and I took a chance, and it all worked out, which was good, I’ve got no one pestering me for bad results, but I just thought there’s got to be an easier way, and long story short, that’s how Intaglio was derived.

[Jaz]
Amazing. And this is screams so much about how mentorship is kind of carried out because the other way you could have gone, Damian, is the following. And we see this all the time on social media. Like there’s so much mentorship happening that we never get to see because there are mentors in the practice, like the other associate there.

And then you just show them the case and they’ll help you out. It’s like, okay, let’s go for a drink afterwards, lemme just help you out, kind of thing, right? And so they get solved. Amazing. You’re very lucky, okay? If you had someone like me, I’d Hap Gil at my practice back in the day, and he would just help me and he would just tell me what to do.

That was like a godsend, okay? So I wish I had that for all of my dentistry, but I had it for aligners with him, because I was working with him on Fridays at the time. What other people do, when they don’t have that, is they go on social media, like a Facebook group, and they will post the case there. But I’ve been observing for a while, and it does not work out that well.

Like if it’s a really simple question, right, then it’s a very obvious answer, fine. But when they post like 15 photos, okay, they get no response because no one’s got time. Who’s got time to go through the case and sit down and write an essay what to do? In this world of voice notes and video calls and stuff.

The other extreme is that they don’t post 15 photos. They don’t post any photos and they write a long essay describing their case. Okay. And guess what? In the comments, it’s like, can you please send some photos? There’s not enough information here. You need to do a full examination. I would suggest you refer.

And so it’s broken. And my own experience as both a mentee. and a mentor is, and lately, last few years as a mentor is people will send me a radiograph or send me a long history of the patient’s issues and whatnot. And like with two kids and a business and work and stuff, I try my best.

And a lot of Protruserati listening to this right now, they would have had a voice note from me with my kids screaming in the background. I try my best to help them. Okay, but they need more, they crave more, and I know that, okay, and I want to give more, okay, and this is exactly what Intaglio is.

Shivani, what’s your experience of, you do a bit of cosmetic work and stuff, and when you’re starting to do that, that’s a great moment to ask for mentorship. Has mentorship been a part of your growth journey?

[Shivani]
Oh, 100%.

[Jaz]
And any challenges?

[Shivani]
I think it’s similar to Damian, I mean, around the time we founded Intaglio, I was having, similar to what you said, there was, we’d learn all of this stuff at university, the textbook answer. This is what to do in this scenario, this symptom, this sign, everything, what is the diagnosis. And it comes to it in practice, particularly in my first sort of like year, year and a half. And you’re in the chair and you see a radiograph where you see a certain symptom that the patient’s presenting and you’re kind of like unsure of what to do in that situation.

Not all the time. Then you see, all right, let me see, who can I send this x ray to? Who can I ask for help, you know? And not everyone’s in that position to sort of know someone who can tell you the exact thing to do. And friends, they might be able to help you slightly, but you don’t get that full sort of hand holding along the way, you know, to explain that case and the time that you need to go through that.

So what we’ve done with Intaglio alleviates that issue in that sense. So if you need help with absolutely anything, you’ve got a safe place that you can go to, to do that really. For me now starting to do sort of more cosmetic dentistry, there’s loads of different ways you can do things. And I think mentorships are a massive factor.

You’re always learning, always growing, and you’re going on all of these courses. And then even after the course, you sort of do that case with that technique and then you’re wondering, so I have a few questions now. I need to go back on to that course. So again, Intaglio is the place to be for that really.

So if you’ve got those few questions and few cases, based on this new technique that you’ve now started to use, you’ve got a place where you can go to, to then ask those questions. So really, we’re sort of trying to hold everyone’s hand along the way and ensure that everyone’s growing and, you know, you’re never alone in that sense.

[Jaz]
I think dentists are definitely getting more savvy about the importance of post course support. And I see a lot of questions on Facebook groups like, okay guys, which is the best course? And they include, I would like a decent amount of support after the course. And so that varies, right?

That literally varies. And I get it. Like as a course provider, it’s like, okay, you did the course, you gave them the education. How can you, in your busy life, then carve time out and not get fairly remunerated for that additional time? Okay. One of the reasons I teamed up with the IAS for OBAB, which is our occlusion online course, right?

And now they’re in person as well, is because IAS already had a dedicated forum online, right? So what our delegates do now is, they will pay a fee, but then they get our time, like, we’ll hand hold them, okay, through the entire case. And then three weeks later, the patient comes back, they put all their photos.

And so, the reason why our delegates are happy. It’s because they have a place to go to, to ask questions, okay? The problem with that as well, okay, is the clunkiness of it, the back and forth, right? The written base element, the forum base element. I remember a few years ago doing a full mouth rehab and I got stuck at the crown lengthening, the functional crown lengthening.

It was like canine to canine. There was not enough tooth structure, there was not enough ferrule. And came to the rescue was Dr. Amit Patel. He’s a periodontist in the Midlands. Lovely guy. Okay, super cool guy. And he’s just the sweetest guy on earth. He just sat with me. I think it was like a Whatsapp actually, we’re just exchanging photos and he drew for me exactly what flap to rudimentary on Whatsapp drew for me using my occlusal photo.

I sent him exactly the flap I need to do, he said do this do that. Don’t do that suture. Keep it simple and a week later, I did the case that case has been good for years now I was able to do that full mouth rehab because I was stuck at that stage and that was really powerful for me as a mentee. And now I’ve done that as a mentor and through the forum now, IAS.

And it’s so, so amazing when they post their case at the end and they were able to solve it. And it’s just so, so good. So I think initially one of my concerns, Damian and Shivani, when you guys approached me at the start and we started to do this together is, are people willing to pay for mentorship? Okay, and actually, I think it was very validating because this is already happening in the implant space.

To a very big degree, like, okay, I don’t know the details there, maybe you guys do, but if you’re someone who’s learning to place implants, your first X number of implants, you’re probably going to make a loss on. Because you’re going to buy all the stuff, buy all the kit, give up your clinical time, but all the fee that your patient’s paying you, you’re pretty much paying to your mentor.

And so that’s a huge investment in yourself, but the ROI is exponential, right? Cause then once you, how many, five times, 10 times, eventually you can do that pre molar case. You can do that molar case and then you can grow. It’s a bit like, give a man a fish or teach a man how to fish philosophy. So, when you think about implants, do you think this is applicable to the rest of dentistry?

[Damian]
Yeah, like 100%. So, going back, I said to you earlier, I was surrounded by implant dentists. Going back a few years, I’d taken out a lower six, cracked off the crown as you do, panicked, take an x ray. And then ran downstairs, showing the boss the x ray, and he goes, like, cut there, cut there, flick that, do that, and then you follow those.

It seems like such basic steps, but it didn’t even cross my mind as to how to do it. And I absolutely hated every second of it when I went back upstairs. I was like, I’m not doing this again. I’m never taking a tooth out ever again. And then you build up your confidence again, and then you go back six months later, and what happens again?

The exact same thing. And then you go back, you get the exact same advice, and you’re like, hold on. This was the same advice you gave me before. Let me give it another go. And you give it a go, and then all of a sudden, those little tips and that little bit of mentoring and advice whilst it seems so simple, was so valuable.

So you fast forward years later, where someone else would maybe refer, you can take that tooth out yourself, and that investment, whilst it seems so insignificant and so annoying at the time, then pays dividends for years and years to come, because you don’t need that advice on that case anymore. You know what you’re doing.

So, that applies to oral surgery, never mind when you step into the world of clear aligners. Because a lot of the courses, the mainstream, Invisalign, SureSmile, they’re one, two day courses. So, it’s physically impossible for them to teach you master’s level orthodontics in a day or two. That’s no reflection on them, that’s just as much time as you’ve got.

So there’s only one way to learn these cases, which is you need someone holding your hand until that confidence builds. So, yes, you may lose a little bit of money, lose a bit of time in the early days, but it’s all going to come back in a full circle, and that confidence and that money will return.

[Jaz]
I still think there’s a profit. I don’t like to think of it that way, but I still think for any dentists out there thinking, ah, but then I’m not making anything in this case. That’s the wrong mentality. If you’re thinking, I’m not going to pay someone to be able to do the case, then you’ve lost already.

How are you going to grow? How are you going to get to that destination when you haven’t got a tank that’s full? Shivani, when you do a cosmetic case, let’s say you got four veneers, okay, lateral to lateral incisor. How much is the patient paying?

[Shivani]
Anything from 750 upwards, porcelain, yeah, anything.

[Jaz]
Per unit, right?

[Shivani]
At least, yeah.

[Jaz]
So with the planning and stuff, that could be like a three and a half, four grand case.

[Shivani]
Yeah, yeah, you’d probably end up referring it if you didn’t feel confident, you’re going to end up referring it, right? So if you’re going on Intaglio and let’s say spending a couple of hundred pounds on this and accepting the case, just, in my opinion, you’re still making a profit, if you look at it that way.

[Jaz]
100% and let’s do the experiment now guys. Okay, so obviously we’ve just launched so I wasn’t expecting to do this. But let’s do this guys for those of you listening on Spotify and an Apple and stuff. Let’s go and tag your website right now okay, I’m going to log in. I have a both a mentor account and a mentee account. So by the way, amazing feature. We worked very hard to put in. Where you could be a both a mentor and a mentee that you could be a mentor in composite veneers because you can do them for fun and you’re good at them and you want to share your skill and advise people, but you’re a mentee for implants.

You can totally do that. Right? So let’s go find mentors. Okay, and let’s pretend I’ve got a cosmetic case. I’m going to go to filters and I’m going to select area of expertise. Now, for those listening and watching, we are in beta phase at the moment, right? So there are some things like I’m still like, I’m not in love with them yet because they were beta.

Like this is like a startup. We’re trying to solve a problem here. And so Damian, I’m going to tell you now, buddy, like when I look at our areas of expertise, I’d like to be able to select more than one. You see what I mean? Because like, I want maybe oral surgery, exodontia, and implants. In case maybe I’m missing someone. Do you get what I’m saying? So I think in the future, we should, this is like the beta phase. But in the future, we should have more of those.

[Damian]
No, 100%. There’s so much we want to integrate into the platform. And we’re taking it step by step. See what people love, see what people hate. And we’ll work on the feedback.

[Jaz]
Amazing. And so what I’ve done here is I’ve just selected cosmetic dentistry. Okay. And I’ve set it from price low to high because I’m a cheapskate. So, let’s have a look. So people think, okay, is mentorship like out of my reach? Like I’m only one or two years qualified. And can I afford to pay a mentor?

Hell yes. Okay. Upen, who I know Upen. He’s 18 years qualified. And he must just be doing it for like the love of it. Because he’s only charging like if you’re in America, he’s charging $40 an hour. UK is like 32 pounds an hour. And so I know Upen, he’s bloody brilliant. I see him all the courses. I would totally, I mean, take my money, man.

Like, that’s amazing, that return on investment, right? I’m looking at these other guys. Ahmed, I mean, I don’t know Ahmed, but I’m looking, he’s got such a slick profile picture. Okay, so he’s got 13 years of experience in restorative dentistry. He’s an aesthetic dentistry enthusiast, okay? And I can book him for two hours for 232 pounds.

But if I just want to do a half an hour session, it’s 58 pounds. That’s like 70 US dollars, okay? To actually get someone on Zoom, show them your case, and for them to guide you, like, holy moly, like, you can literally make that back just, like, in the first two minutes of the polishing the damn composite.

This is actually unbelievable. I’m actually, like, amazed. I mean, I hate the word cheap. But these guys, they’re obviously doing it out of passion. They’re not doing it to like a monopoly or profitize or anything. But I think that’s important to respect a mentor’s time. But what do you think about that guys?

[Damian]
The analogy I like to always give is, let’s compare it to our medical colleagues. They’re surrounded by the consultants. These are people who have spent years of their life dedicated to their profession and their area of expertise. And you might be a foundation doctor or a core trainee. You walk around with them and you absorb all of that knowledge on a day to day basis.

And, as everyone listening knows, the profession can be quite lonely. It’s you, your nurse, your patient, and the days just kind of twindle by, and unless you’re surrounded by things that excite you and give you passion and people that give you that same passion and excitement, how many people end up burning out the whole mental health within dentistry is a whole different conversation?

So by having these people readily available who have got the excitement and the passion to share their knowledge, which has taken them years and years to build. And you can learn in half an hour a fraction of that knowledge. That’s invaluable. I’m just going to interject there.

[Jaz]
I mean, I just want to be clear that the role of these mentors, not necessarily past knowledge, it’s more to the reason our logo is a door being open, it’s opening doors to allow you to treat that one problem, that case, right? So again, what mentorship is in general, is allowing you to apply the knowledge that you gain from the courses, okay?

Because it’s very, very difficult to apply it. That’s what the crux of it all is. It’s application of the knowledge of courses and mentorship is what unlocks that, is what opens your doors to allow you to treat that case and then again and again and again and then you don’t need the mentor anymore for that specific problem.

[Damian]
100%.

[Shivani]
Also, to be honest with you, Jaz, even on the platform it’s not just sort of clinical help. There’s also, we’ve also got mentors on there for like non clinical help, communication, for international students that need help with their ORE. We’ve got a whole range of that and more to come as well. So it’s not just a place where you can go if you need clinical help.

[Jaz]
I had an orthodontic specialist trainee. So she’s a registrar and ortho and she’s got a little bit of imposter syndrome. She didn’t want to like mentor in orthodontics. Okay. And that’s cool. But what she did want to mentor in is helping someone who’s stuck with that application to specialist training.

Like if I was in that stage and I wanted like desperately do special training, I would totally pay someone to just hold my hand, keep me calm. Tell me, like, how to navigate my next big challenge in my career. You don’t even need a case to get a mentor. Sometimes, you know what? I’ll tell you guys. The other week, I would have posted about this on Protrusive Guidance.

I paid Pascal Magne 295 US dollars. For an hour of his time. He’s cheap, okay? I’m not going to tell him this because he’ll charge me more than that. But, like I didn’t have a case. I’m not even like my onlays don’t debunk either. So first thing he asked me is so what issues are you having with your onlays?

I’m like, I’m not having I just want to see you man. So I talked to you and like geek out with you for now. So I just literally asked him these really geeky questions like high level and we talked about how pure silane. It’s better than the mixed stuff with the MDP and he literally showed me these like diagrams of onlays with these like liquid bubbles on them and the angle, the contact angle they make, and it was like a mega geeky manifestation of knowledge.

It was just amazing, I loved it. Okay, we talked about what’s the best way to clean your ceramic. How about using phosphoric acid? I just enjoyed just asking the source of information so much experience, what is the best way? How would Pascal Magne do this? Okay, and I had that one to one time with him.

So you don’t always even need cases, you just want to geek out with someone that you respect so that allows you to become a better you.

[Damian]
Definitely. And this only happened today actually. So, I worked with a nurse today, who, she’s actually a dentist in Turkey and for various regions she’s decided to come over here and she’s currently sitting through all her exams and she’s working as a nurse in the interim.

And she was telling me about her journey coming over to the UK. She had to navigate basics on accommodation, getting a job, where to sit the exams, what materials to use to revise for. And I said to her, you’ve got so much knowledge and experience. You’re not valuing how much you’ve learned in the one year you’ve been here.

And I said, you’d make an amazing mentor. So literally this afternoon, I checked on her and she’s already signed up and she’s on as a mentor for a dentist who wants to come to the UK and just get some, what seems like basic information, but it’s such a massive step and a massive journey. And to have someone help you.

This is not clinical in the slightest. This is just getting your foundation and getting your foot into a whole new environment. Something you’ve never worked as. You’re a qualified dentist, but now all of a sudden you’re working as a nurse. I’ve never had that experience. So to learn from someone who’s had that experience, it’s amazing.

[Jaz]
This conversation Damian is reminding me of when I was a third year dentist student. I used to live with these fifth year dentists, right? And I felt like I was on such advantage. Because I could just ask them about stupid stuff and they would like, I was like, wow, these are geniuses, right?

These fifth years, they know everything, man. And so when you think about it now, when I’m having a beer with them, it’s like, okay, there’s a blind leading the blind. But at the time they knew stuff I didn’t know. They genuinely knew they had done three more molar excavations. And I’d done like zero. So I had something to learn from them.

Now that’s an extreme example I’m giving you. But the reason I mentioned this is when you are one year qualified, okay. And you’re doing something for like the first time or the third time, that person who’s done it for 30 times, that person will understand your struggle more than the person who’s done it a thousand times.

Cause the person who’s done it a thousand times will forget that you will struggle to hold the suture in a certain way. That person will forget that you’re even struggling to talk about money with a patient. That’s such a far gone thing for someone. So the reason I’m mentioning this is the mentees that we’re collecting, we’re attracting.

It’s not necessarily like Pascal Magne and Jason Smithson and stuff. They mentor as well. And I would love to welcome them all to Intaglio, but these people are there to help you. And it’s sometimes it’s not looking at the superstar names is looking for who can help you in your journey with your specific problem. And that’s why I think what we’ve made possible now is to allow people to get help and at a really great price as well, but really, really good knowledge because you don’t have to be a superstar to mentor, okay? And you don’t have to always go to a superstar to get that information because there’s dentists day in, day out doing that work, okay? And when you’re struggling, you’ve only done two of those cases, okay? That’s the person, that’s the guy or gal you need.

[Shivani]
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there, Jaz, to be completely honest with you. Some of the best mentors that I’ve had were literally only a couple of years older than me. And because they’ve been through those struggles so recently, they were able to kind of enlighten me on issues they’ve had and how they’ve got through it.

And it just makes sense, to be honest, rather than going through all of these struggles, just to learn from someone who’s already been through all of that. There’s no point in you going around the houses and making those mistakes when someone’s already made them. And you can pay someone to learn those and sort of fast track yourself in that sense. So I think you hit the nail on the head there. Really.

[Jaz]
You reminded me something there Shivani of you could learn from failure and that’s a powerful teacher, right? Or you can learn from the mistakes of others. And then not have to make those mistakes in the first place. So you can learn the hard way, the long way, because you can learn it.

You can do everything. I believe, I truly believe you can do anything you set your mind to, but sometimes doing it alone, you’re just going to go through a very bendy path. If you go to a much straighter karma path, and that’s what Intaglio is looking to solve, which is the access to mentorship. But Damian, just as we wrap up, can you just explain, because I think we need to just do some more clarity on exactly what is Intaglio, because we got so excited about solving the mentorship crisis. What problems is Intaglio there to solve?

[Damian]
Well, going on the point that you guys just said, it reminds me of if everyone’s ever seen Dragon’s Den. When they come in and the entrepreneur asked for 10 percent of their company and they come back and the dragons go, well, actually I want 30 percent and you can see they’re so disheartened at the thought of giving another three times the amount of equity that they wanted to give away, but the dragons justification for that is.

I’ve been there, I’ve done that, I’ve learnt all these mistakes, you’re going to sail past all of that, which has taken me ten years to learn, and let’s just get cracking with the job. That three times equity that you’re giving away is going to seem negligible in the grand scheme of things.

[Shivani]
You’re working smarter, right, not harder.

[Damian]
So Intaglio is going to solve that problem. Let’s call it two separate divisions. We’ll call it our one on one division and we’ll call it our classes division. So our one on one is exactly like a Zoom call. When you book your mentor, you answer various questions. What are your goals? What are you hoping to achieve at the end of the session?

What experience do you bring to this call? And that already sets the groundwork so that the mentor knows what you’re hoping to achieve and what knowledge you already have. So your mentor’s prepared even before you’ve logged on to your dedicated session. Then during this call, however long slot you’ve booked, go back and forth with the mentor and get your questions answered.

This is your time. This is what you’ve paid for. Get as much information as you can out of those mentors. And the excitement of these mentors that I’ve spoken to, they’re so happy to help. They want to share. It’s not about the money for them. They’re so happy to give up their time and help someone not go through what they had to go through. So you’ll see the excitement the second that you log on.

[Jaz]
Totally agree. They’re excited, but I just want to clarify that everyone’s, all the mentors that we’ve been attracting, a lot of them are from the Protruserati as well. They’re just lovely people. And yes, you’re right. It’s not about the money for them.

They’re just, you can see by the, how much they’re charging for them. For them it’s like, I can’t believe I get to share my knowledge experience, they’re excited to do that. But what Intaglio allows you to do is, is avoid those awkward conversations on Instagram. It’s like, hey, can you mentor me?

Like, I’ve got a case. Can I buy an hour of your time and back and forth and whatnot? Like, this is just, everyone’s got their prices there. You have a problem. You know exactly what you’re looking for. Just book it, right? So it’s there to facilitate. That’s what Intaglio is. So I think our initial concept was, okay, one on one. But I thought, okay, while we’re there, we can do so much. We can help to make a bigger impact and help everyone through the other division.

[Damian]
So the other division then is what we’re deeming classes. And we’ll split classes into three subdivisions. We’ll go number one, webinars, which is your typical webinar that you’d log on to. That has dedicated time, or on demand. You can watch it as a pre recorded webinar. The second subdivision we’ll call masterclasses. This is like your OBAB course. You’ve got multiple lessons within a class. So, you’ve got multiple parts to the series, so you can watch it in your own time, and you’ve got a more in depth understanding of the topic in question.

And the third subdivision, I’m not going to reveal too much now, but I guarantee you it’s going to change the game in dentistry. It’s something we’ve been working really hard on and I’m really excited to tell you guys, keep us in your minds. And when we release it, you’ll be excited too.

[Jaz]
One miracle at a time though. Like it’s been a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get to launch. We had some developers hiccups. We had some our own personal health hiccups along the way and whatnot. It took a lot to get this out there. Lots of Wednesday evening meetings, Monday evening, like designers and developers and everything.

So to get to this point. So guys, mentorship, find a mentor in five seconds flat. Okay. Damian, thank you so much. Shivani, thanks so much for this journey as well, of working with you guys. And I really hope we can actually serve and help so many dentists out there around the world. This is an international mission. So thank you for spending time with me to talk about something that’s really, really important to us. And I look forward to growing this with you guys.

[Shivani]
Yeah. Thanks for having us Jaz. It’s been a pleasure working with you and excited to see what the rest of this year has got to come really.

[Damian]
Thank you again, Jaz. Appreciate your time. It’s been a pleasure.

Jaz’s Outro:
Well, there we have it guys. Thank you so much for listening all the way to the end. If you identify yourself as a mentor, please apply to be a mentor on there. If you like to share and you like to give back, then we’d love to have you. The truth is we already have the largest database all the mentors of dentistry in the world already. Okay, at beta launch, we already have it. But if this is the first time you’re hearing about it, or you’ve known about it for a while, you need to now get your gears in action and apply to be a mentor. So you can actually make a difference to lives of mentees.

And of course, for the thousands of us who need a mentor. Like I’m literally on the website now looking for a mentor to help me with a specific socket grafting case I have coming up. And none of the associates in my practice are experienced in socket grafting and the implantologist in my practice, we don’t actually work on the same days. So I’m actually looking forward to booking some time with a mentor showing them the radiograph understanding what to do and what not to do and how to apply the knowledge I’ve gained from courses to this specific case.

So if you can now think of a problem you have or a case that you’re stuck on, there’s a place for you. You can now find a mentor on Intaglio, which is my favorite word in dentistry. It means the inside surface of a crown or denture. It sounds like a pasta, what’s not to love about Intaglio. So check out intagl.io, sign up as a mentee or a mentor or both. You can actually do both and switch in between, which I think is magic.

I’ll put the link in the show notes, and I hope this makes it a dent in dentistry. I really hope that dentists will be able to solve problems faster, grow at a much faster rate, because that’s what mentors do.

That’s what mentorship has the power to do, and want to thank all of you listeners, who over the years have signed up for our waiting list and subscribed to our newsletters and stuff. It really means a lot. Now it’s possible. I would love for you to join the action. So check out intagl.io I’ll catch you same time, same place next week. Bye for now.