The ocean refuses empathetic ethics based on sameness with us humans. What does the urge to save nature—in certain ways—reveal about us and our desire?

In the sixth episode of the podcast Ocean Wants, speculative writer Ingo Niermann, most recently of the book Mare Amoris, is talking to Eva Hayward, historian of science and faculty member in the Department of Gender and Women Studies at the University of Arizona.

— Ocean Wants, Institut Art Gender Nature dertank.ch and TBA21–Academy, ocean-archive.org