We need a new approach to building trust in economic and monetary systems, says Ian Grigg, my guest on the latest episode of the New Money Review podcast.

Grigg, a computer scientist and cryptographer, is one of the pioneers of internet-based money. In the 1990s, he worked on digital cash systems, which applied strong cryptography systems to money transfers.

Grigg also published articles on shared ledgers, triple-entry accounting, proof-of-work systems, smart contracts and social reputation systems well before the emergence of bitcoin.

In the podcast, Grigg talks about the ballooning problems of financial exclusion, money laundering and financial crime. He argues that the current US-driven approach to isolating bad actors and excluding them from the financial system is bound to fail.

Instead, says Grigg, we need to focus on rebuilding identity and money systems from the ground up, using models found in countries where trust in governments and financial institutions is largely absent.

To listen to the podcast, click here.

In it, we cover:

• How the cypherpunks became interested in digital money
• Why Satoshi Nakamoto was a cryptographer, not a cypherpunk
• Why strong cryptography caused a revolution in accounting
• The prospects for triple-entry accounting
• Why state identity systems cannot fulfil humans’ need for trust
• How community money can fill the trust gap
• The ballooning costs and falling returns of banks’ compliance efforts
• Why anti-money-laundering (AML) and know-your-customer (KYC) rules have failed
• The problem of false positives in AML monitoring
• Why governments cannot beat the money launderers—the OODA loop
• Building virtuous circles of trust—in communities, countries and globally