The PandA Pod is back! And we have a new co-host, a new producer, and some fantastic guests. In this episode, NDRN’s Amy Scherer joins us we sit down with Senator Steve Daines of Montana to discuss competitive, integrated employment.

Jack Rosen:

All right.

Michelle Bishop:

Ready to go anytime?

Jack Rosen:

We should be good to go.

Michelle Bishop:

Hey, hey, everybody. Welcome back to the PandA Pod. It’s been quite a while since we dropped a new episode for you. We kind of, somewhere in the middle of the pandemic, went out with a bit of a whimper. And we made some big, big plans to come back with a bang, and I’m pretty sure we’re rolling back in with another whimper because I’m one third of your hosting team, and one third of us isn’t here, and I’m sick, and one third is new and y’all haven’t even met her yet.

But anyway, let’s get it rolling. We actually have an awesome episode for you today. This is National Disability Employment Awareness Month. I’m pretty sure I got that right. So, we’re going to have some really cool content for you.

Hi everybody, I’m Michelle Bishop. I’m the voter access and engagement manager at NDRN, one third of your hosts. Unfortunately, Justice Shorter, who… Gosh, what is Justice, disaster advisor at NDRN? Is that her title? Something like that… is out today, so she won’t be joining us. And if you recall, Erika Hudson left us to go live in Sweden for some reason. I don’t know what she was thinking. Traveling around Europe sounded better than hosting this podcast. So, we actually have a brand new host joining us today. Stephanie Flynt, let the people know who you are.

Stephanie: Yeah, thanks so much, Michelle. And I must say, before we get too into this podcast, that I really do look forward to working with all of you.

Michelle Bishop:

Is that… Oh no. Was that… Oh, I knew it was, just by the way you phrased it. All right. If anyone was worried about the loss of Erika’s terrible, terrible puns from this podcast, don’t worry. Stephanie is so anxious to fill those shoes, she’s just all the bad dad jokes lined up for you. So, the terrible humor will continue.

I’d like to say this is going to become a more serious podcast with less weirdness, and less of me and Justice singing off key, but that is unlikely. I think we’re going to keep rolling the way we have been. So, all right, let’s get started. Stephanie, talk to me. Talk to me about employment month, and talk to me about why you’re excited to host this podcast.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yeah. So, I’m super excited to be helping to host this podcast. I think that this is something that is super important to talk about. The disability unemployment rate, and under-employment rate, is very high. I want to say it’s at about 70%, and that includes individuals with disabilities who are unfortunately paid sub-minimum wage. They don’t get paid enough. Well, not even enough, but they don’t get paid the minimum wage in their states. Most states, unfortunately, continue with that practice.

And another thing is, a lot of companies hesitate to hire individuals with disabilities. We often see that when people end up disclosing. They’re not always called back for a first… Or even if they’re called back after they’ve disclosed during the first interview, oftentimes you sadly see them not get called back for the second interview. And oftentimes, it’s really hard to prove that that was disability discrimination. And, who knows, sometimes it isn’t, but a lot of the time it really is. I’ve definitely seen people who are under-qualified for jobs apply for those jobs, and most of the interview contains questions about how are you going to be able to do the job because of the fact that you’re disabled?

Michelle Bishop:

Yeah, I mean, it’s horrifying when you think about those employment numbers. So, I think this is a great opportunity to relaunch this podcast and talk about something that really, really matters to the folks that we serve.

Before we get into all that, we actually have some new segments we’re going to be introducing to this podcast for you all. We’re going to do a little bit of a who’s-who, some of our network, and the new stuff, and talk about some of the amazing things that you all are doing in your states. And before we wrap up today, we’ll also have a spotlight story where we’re going to just kind of highlight a really critical issue that maybe doesn’t get enough attention, with a personal story from a person with a disability. So, keep an ear out for that. And if you know some good in the news, or you’ve got a great spotlight story, you should definitely reach out to us. We want to feature you in a future episode.

So, let’s get to the network in the news piece. And we’re down a host, but we have our faithful producer, Jack Rosen, from the communications team at NDRN here with us today. Jack, talk to us. What’s happening in the news?

Jack Rosen:

Coming in from Wisconsin, a bill would ensure assistance for disabled voters.

Michelle Bishop:

This one’s a bit of an ongoing saga, if y’all haven’t been following this one, and actually our Wisconsin folks have been really doing some amazing work around this. So, this goes back to a bill that was proposed in Wisconsin that would have placed some limitations on who can assist a voter with a disability. Especially when we’re talking about returning your ballot, if you’re someone to votes by mail, which is really critical for people who live in long-term care facilities. They were trying to place some limitations on that. Unfortunately, for the state of Wisconsin, that is protected by federal law. That’s part of the Voting Rights Act. So, you can’t just restrict people having the assistant of their choice when it comes to voting. And that means getting your ballot, marking your ballot, returning your ballot.

There was just successful litigation coming out of Wisconsin, this went up to their Supreme Court, but they did find that those limitations violated federal law. So, there’s been some successful case law there. Shout out to Disability Rights Wisconsin, who’ve been working so hard.

And now we’re hearing, yeah, there’s a new bill being proposed, which to my understanding, Jack, just kind of takes what’s in federal law, those Voting Rights Act protections, and would codify them permanently into Wisconsin law so they don’t have this issue again where you’ve got courts making these decisions.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yeah, absolutely. And that is super important. A lot of people will ask, “Why do you need this, if it’s already in federal law?” Federal law, trump state law?

Well, oftentimes we find that in the midst of everything election laws-related, sometimes there needs to be, I guess you could call it, a reminder, per se, or just kind of ensuring the protections are actually followed by putting those into state law and just bringing attention to that.

Michelle Bishop:

It’s true. It’s so true. So, I love this story. This is an example of a P&A working really hard to fight something that would really restrict access to the vote right as we’re rolling into midterm elections, and seeing some success there. But what other stories have we got what’s going on in the network?

Jack Rosen:

Last month in September, from September 19th to the 25th, Disability Rights Washington sponsored their annual Week Without Driving, where people voluntarily agree to get around without driving themselves in a vehicle. How does Week Without Driving work, you ask? You can get around however you want, but you can’t drive yourself in a car. This applies to all activities, not just your work commutes. And if you normally transport other family members or friends, it applies to those trips, too. You can ask someone else to drive you, but you’re asked to note how much you, quote, owe this person in their time, and if you feel obligated to support them in other ways. You can use ride hail, that’s a little odd, or taxis.

Michelle Bishop:

Ride hail. That must be a West Coast thing.

Stephanie Flynt:

Maybe so. Yeah, no. And this is super important. As a blind person, I definitely… I can’t drive legally, rather. So, there are times, particularly in rural areas where people who are blind, or people who have other disabilities that prevent them from driving, it can be super difficult for us to get around.

It’s so easy for folks who are able to drive to just jump in a car. And while things have gotten progressively easier… There is Lyft, there is Uber. You can usually request a ride at the touch of a button.

Unfortunately, people with disabilities, and I’ve actually experienced this, have been discriminated against, or are discriminated against, more often than they should be by rideshare companies because of the fact that maybe they have a service animal. Or in my case, in recent rides that I’ve taken, on account of my blindness.

So, at that point, the rides aren’t as instantaneous as you would think they are. Not to mention, as Jack was talking about, being charged for those rides. When you’re paying for gas now, not a few months ago, right, but when you’re paying for gas now, it’s significantly cheaper for you to go, say, three miles back from the grocery store. Whereas for me, it could cost anywhere from $10 to $30, or $40 if the rideshare companies are surging.

Michelle Bishop:

Anything else going on interesting in the news lately?

Jack Rosen:

Yes. In the Virgin Islands, emergency planners urge vigilance at St. Thomas Exposition. A number of government agencies, led by the Virgin Islands Territorial Emergency Management Agency and the health department, joined by nonprofit groups, are staging a preparedness expo at the University of the Virgin Islands Sports and Fitness Center on St. Thomas.

According to one organizer, Monday’s event was designed to remind participants how important it is for older residents and those with disabilities to plan ahead. And one of the exhibitors at that expo will be our affiliate, The Disability Rights Center of the Virgin Islands.

Michelle Bishop:

Yes. I mean we’re going to be talking about employment a lot in this episode of the podcast, but it’s definitely important to recognize, especially since Justice couldn’t be here to do it herself, that this is really hurricane season as well. So, this is a really dangerous time in some parts of the United States, especially for the folks in the US Virgin Islands. So, this kind of preparedness is really important. These sounded like they were really cool events. I personally would have volunteered to come to the US Virgin Islands to help support those events, so I hope next time they’ll invite me. I’ll just do some voter registration or something. It’s fine. We can come up with a reason that I need to go to US Virgin Islands. Perhaps we should plan some future events. I’m looking at you, Puerto Rico, and I’ll come down and help with those as well.

But in all seriousness, it is hurricane season, even though we’re talking about employment. So, P&As everywhere should be thinking about disaster preparedness. I know hurricanes really affect only certain states, but flash flooding happens everywhere. I come from blizzard territory, because I’m from upstate New York originally, and that happens in half of the country. The forest fires that we’re seeing out west, or the wildfires, if you will, that we’re seeing out west, disaster happens everywhere, and preparedness really matters if we’re going to get people with disabilities out, and safely.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yeah, no. Absolutely. And making sure that individuals have a plan, and making sure that state and local communities also have some sort of contingency plans. Again, I know that Justice would say the same thing. Right? Preparedness really is key here in ensuring that individuals with disabilities are even able to evacuate before these disasters strike, if there is a chance for them to evacuate.

Oftentimes, there may be some mandatory evacuation orders, but individuals with disabilities sadly are often left behind. They’re not seen as people who are even able, or they’re not able to evacuate unless they have assistance from other folks, and not everyone has family or friends who are able to assist them where they live. And so, oftentimes they may be left behind, and unfortunately have to be rescued rather than evacuated. So, planning really and truly is key.

Michelle Bishop:

We have an interview this episode, right, with the senator?

Stephanie Flynt:

Yeah, yeah. Actually, we are going to be interviewing Senator Steve Daines of Montana. He’s actually one of our champions for the Transformation to Competitive and Integrative Employment Act. He’s actually the Republican lead on the Senate side. So, definitely very grateful for his championship on this initiative and his leadership on this initiative.

One of the things that he certainly has made sure that individuals know that he values is equal treatment of all individuals, including individuals with disabilities. So, it’s just really refreshing and really great to see that. So yeah, super excited about interviewing the senator later this episode.

Michelle Bishop:

Well, with that, I’d say welcome Senator, and let’s get right to it. All right. So, as we mentioned earlier in the episode, this is actually the National Disability Employment Awareness Month, and that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. Now, towards that end, we actually have a couple special guests with us. First, I’ll introduce you to Amy Scherer with NDRN. Amy, who came to help us with this interview, talk to the people.

Amy Scherer:

Hi, so glad to be here today. Thank you so much for inviting me. Like Michelle just said, my name is Amy Scherer, and I’m a senior staff attorney at NDRN, and I focus primarily on employment issues and specifically issues with vocational rehabilitation, or VR, which is a program designed to help people with disabilities obtain and maintain employment. And employment is a topic that I’m really passionate about, so I’m really glad to participate in this conversation.

Michelle Bishop:

That’s amazing because I don’t anticipate us asking a lot of questions about voting systems today. So, thank you Amy, for hopping on with us. We appreciate it so much. We hope we can wrangle you back into some future episodes.

Well, we actually have a very important honorable guest with us today. We’re going to be talking to Senator Steve Daines of Montana. Senator Daines is a fifth-generation Montanan who brings 28 years of private-sector business experience to Washington DC. A graduate of Montana State University, Senator Daines was elected to the House of Representatives in 2012 and the Senate in 2014, and he was recently reelected to a second term in 2020. Congratulations, Senator. He serves on the Senate committees on Finance, Energy and Natural Resources, Banking and Indian Affairs. Senator Daines joins us today to discuss his support for competitive integrated employment for people with disabilities. Senator, thank you so much for joining us today.

Senator Steve Daines:

Hey, I’m really glad to join you all. Thank you.

Michelle Bishop:

Oh, we appreciate it. If you could just get us started by telling our listeners a little bit about your background and how that contributes to your support for competitive and integrated employment opportunities for people with disabilities.

Senator Steve Daines:

Yeah, happy to. Well, you mentioned it in that introduction, and thank you for that. I’ve spent most of my career in the private sector in business, a rather shorter career in politics. And consequently, I’ve been involved in hiring in the workforce from our private sector side for most of my life.

I grew up in a construction business. My mom and dad were contractors. We built homes as a kid, and so that’s where I worked during my summers. But I guess when I think about this issue, I’m passionate about work, the dignity of work, the hope that is found in work, and how we need to be supporting Americans with disabilities in the workforce, and not in any way treating them unfairly.

When you think about the importance of work, it’s so much of our identity. It’s what we think about perhaps as we go home at night, wake up in the morning. Going to a job is so important. To illustrate that, when you think about meeting people for the first time, you’ll ask them their name, and usually the very next question you ask is, “What do you do?” And it usually relates to our vocation, our work.

And I don’t know about your listeners and you all, but sometimes I’ll forget a person’s name, but I’ll remember what they said about where they work or what they do. And I think that just illustrates how work is part of our identity around who we are.

And here in the US Senate, we’re working across the aisle to support people with disabilities to help them engage more effectively with their communities, and working towards financial independence, and also creating a more inclusive workforce. So, I guess I’d say, just a product of having worked most of my life outside of politics, and I think bringing that perspective to Washington can help in this discussion.

Amy Scherer:

This is Amy. I love what you said about financial independence and inclusive workforce because I think that is such an important part of the puzzle. Related to that, obviously we’ve been going through a pandemic the last few years, and there were a lot of accommodations that were provided during that time, both to people with disabilities and those without disabilities, to allow them to continue to work remotely or in other ways. So, I just wanted to ask you kind of a two-part question, but the first part is if you have any strategies that you would recommend for workers who happen to have disabilities who would like to preserve their accommodations that they received during the pandemic?

Senator Steve Daines:

Yeah. Well, I mean, you think about, we learned a lot about what to do and what not to do, looking back, related to a pandemic. But we’ve introduced a bipartisan bill. I’ve introduced this with Senator Casey of Pennsylvania, and it’s called the Transformation to Competitive Integrated Employment Act. And what it does is it ensures that people with disabilities are never paid below minimum wage.

We’re facing a labor shortage, a workforce shortage, across our country. And I think there’s a fundamental question of fairness as it relates to those with disabilities to make sure they’re paid at least at minimum wage or above. Because we have thousands of Americans with disabilities who are paid below minimum wage, because of a provision in the Fair Labor Standards Act that allows employers to apply for special certificates from the Department of Labor to pay workers less than minimum wage.

And when you look at the average wage of these people working under these certificates, it was $3.34 per hour. That is just unacceptable. And so, I think we need to get this rather commonsense piece of legislation passed, to make sure we’re supporting Americans with disabilities in our workforce.

And so, what this bill does, it would fix it by getting rid of these certificates that enable employers to pay below minimum wage, and provide resources to those employers that were paying below minimum wage, to ensure they can still fairly compensate their workers. So, we’re off to a good start. We’ve got early bipartisan support, which as you know, back here in Washington, that’s a really important dynamic to get something actually done and on the president’s desk.

Amy Scherer:

Yes, and I love that you, again, highlighted the sub-minimum wage issue because there are a lot of people probably even listening to the podcast that don’t even know that it is legal, as you said, under the Fair Labor Standard Act, to pay people with disabilities under the minimum wage. So, that is a huge issue to try to bring awareness to that, and we appreciate that tremendously.

Related to that, because that is more of a, as you indicated, federal piece of legislation, and I know that you are a senator representing Montana, so can you speak to any specific state efforts Montana is undergoing or has undergone to ensure equal employment opportunities for people with disabilities?

Senator Steve Daines:

Yeah, I’d be happy to. And if some of the listeners here have not been to Montana, we hope you have a chance to come out and visit. We have a beautiful state. It’s been made famous by the show Yellowstone of late, but I can tell you, it’s a lot safer than what Yellowstone portrays. I’ll leave it at that.

But here’s what we’re doing in Montana. It’s the Montana Vocational Rehabilitation and Blind Services. It’s a group that promotes opportunities for Montanans with disabilities to have rewarding careers and to thrive in their community. This group helped form partnerships with businesses to fill their employment needs. We have some great Montana companies there. Wheat Montana is a company that many in Montana know about. Town Pump, these are convenient stores, gas stations across our state, started by family in Butte, Montana. And then, there’s a global high-tech company, Applied Materials, that have a major operation up in Montana in Kalispell, and they produce the manufacturing equipment for semiconductors.

And when you think about the workforce shortages, this Vocational Rehabilitation and Blind Services Group, they play a really important role to address these gaps we have in the workforce, and to help promote opportunities for Montanans to achieve their full potential.

Here’s some interesting stats, too. If you go back to the stats we have from 2018, the wait list for Montanans seeking disability employment services was 4,000 people. We have a new governor now in Montana. He was elected in 2020, and we’re now getting them off the wait list every week. In fact, we even expect that wait list that used to be 4,000 people to be completely cleared by the end of the year.

And again, these are Montanans seeking disability employment. So, we’re making some great strides post pandemic, and I’m proud of the work being done back home to that end.

Amy Scherer:

That is so great, and I love to hear those specific examples again. It’s wonderful to hear that about the wait list situation. And I can definitely tell you in other states that also have the VR program, because that really is a state and federal program in every state. But unlike Montana, a lot of the VR agencies are not doing such a good job of spending the money and getting people off the wait list and actually getting people into jobs in the community. So, really, congratulations to Montana for their efforts in actually creating the programs and spending the funds as they should be spent.

Michelle Bishop:

Okay, since we’re on the topic, I have to tell you, Senator, I’ve actually been to Montana. I’ve been to Helena a few years ago, and I loved it. I tell everyone, I had such a blast in Montana. It was beautiful, the people are really kind and lovely, and all of the food was delicious. So, that’s just a little something for our listeners. Highly recommend a trip to Montana in the future.

But speaking of our listeners, and a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are actually disability rights advocates, most of whom actually work in our national network, organizations like Disability Rights Montana, who do this work. And I’m wondering what advice you have for what folks who are listening to this podcast can do to help promote competitive and integrated employment. Is there a role for advocates to play here?

Senator Steve Daines:

Yeah. Well, it’s a great question. It’s an important question. And I’ll tell you, the first thing I would say is first engage with like-minded people in your community, but also those who are not necessarily like-minded, and educate them and inform them about the issue and what needs to be done.

Because sometimes we can live on our own little worlds and not be aware of the need and the challenge that those with disabilities might have. And I think about what we also can do is support these businesses that are filling their employment needs with our fellow citizens who have disabilities. Find out which businesses are.

Again, I mentioned back home in Montana, it’s companies like Wheat Montana and Town Pump and Applied Materials. And there’s a lot longer list, but find out who they are and support those businesses, and let those businesses know you’re supporting them, and thank them for their support for working with those with disabilities to employ them. So, talk to your local businesses.

And most importantly, I’ll say this, pick up the phone or email your senator. Tell them to join Senator Casey and myself in this fight for fairness. Because I will tell you, as a US Senator, the most important person in any conversation during my day is the conversation with the Montanan, because that’s who we represent. So, pick up the phone, send an email, write a letter to your senator, and tell them to get behind this bill that I have with Senator Casey.

Michelle Bishop:

I’m so glad you actually brought it back around to Congress as well, because as we’ve been having this conversation, so much of what I hear you talking about, to me, it’s not a partisan thing.

The fact that people with disabilities want to work, the fact that Americans want to work and support our families, and be productive members of society, that is such a core American value in my mind. And so, I was wondering if you have any thoughts on how we can communicate the need for support of competitive and integrative employment, and equal wages for all people, in a way that is bipartisan without getting kind of bogged down in the politics.

Because this is an everybody value. And like you said, coming out of the pandemic, we have an employment crisis, and this sounds to me like the time for all of us to stand together on this issue. How can we do this in a way that’s bipartisan?

Senator Steve Daines:

Yeah. Well, first of all, you hit the nail on the head. This is not a partisan issue. Treating people differently based on their ability status is unacceptable. It really violates who we are as Americans, who we are as humans. And all Americans deserve the opportunity to join the workforce and to be fairly compensated at their job. I think you’d have to work pretty hard to find somebody who disagrees with that basic statement, and particularly when we’re facing a significant workforce shortage at the moment. So, it seems like we’ve got a solution here that’s not only right because of just principle, in fairness, it also helps us solve a problem that we face in our economy, which is a shortage in the workforce. We have untapped and undertapped labor that has great potential, and we need to get them in the workforce and fairly compensated.

But unfortunately, I think there’s just a gap in knowledge and understanding. Many people simply don’t know about this injustice. So, get the word out, make sure people know this is not acceptable, and Senator Casey and I are going to keep fighting to pass our bill.

And just for those who are listing and thinking about greater advocacy, let me just give you the bill number. It’s Senate Bill 3238. 3238. You need to put Senate Bill because there’s House Bills and there’s Senate Bill. Just reference S3238, and that would be what you need if you’re going to call or email or write a letter to your senator.

Michelle Bishop:

Senator Daines, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been a really fascinating look into these issues. And Amy, thank you again for joining us as well to help us talk this through. I appreciate both of you coming on and helping us kick off national employment month for people with disabilities. It’s like we said, there’s an employment crisis going on in this country. It’s time. It’s time to solve some of these issues, and it’s time to help people with disabilities who are willing and able get to work. Thank you so much for joining us, Senator.

Senator Daines: Well, thanks for having me, and really glad to be able to help educate your listeners, and thanks and advance to your listeners who are going to take action and advocate for this important legislation.

Michelle Bishop:

Well, thank you so much for joining us, Senator. That was amazing. What an incredible way to relaunch the PandA Pod, especially in light of our very first episode being during the employment month.

And let’s actually take it to our new segment, our spotlight story. We actually have Stephanie’s story that she has been itching to share with you all if you don’t follow her on TikTok. I do not. My TikTok is only for strangers. I like to watch dance videos. But, Stephanie has apparently been blowing up TikTok these days with her experience using rideshares. Stephanie, tell us about it.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yeah, sure. I mean, for starters, Michelle, I consider myself pretty strange, so I think you should follow me on TikTok. I’m just saying.

Michelle Bishop:

Noted. Noted.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yes. Humble brag. Humble brag. Yeah. So, I’m going to talk a little bit about my experience with Lyft and how it made me late for a work meeting. So, back in March, I was going to a meeting on Capitol Hill. Honestly, probably my first meeting on the actual Hill in person in what, maybe two years. I had come by the office to drop some things off. It was about 7:30 in the morning, and I requested a Lyft because I did not want to walk to the meeting. I think it was freezing cold. Trying to remember why I didn’t want to walk. It’s also about a mile, and I was wearing cute shoes, and I’m not going to ruin my cute shoes on these DC sidewalks. No. I’m not.

Michelle Bishop:

100% understand. You have to do all your commuting in sneakers and put your shoes in a bag.

Stephanie Flynt:

Exactly, exactly. And I just didn’t want to go off to the side, and these staffers… Because right now the way that the Hill is working is you have to call a staffer, and then they come down and escort you. So, that means that staffers are just kind of milling about. I don’t want anybody seeing me change in my cute shoes. It’s one of those secret things. Everybody walks around DC in their sneakers, but you don’t want anyone to see you changing into your cute shoes. And if you do see someone, it’s etiquette to just move along, pretend like you didn’t see it. La la la la.

Michelle Bishop:

That’s true. This is real DC insider information on the episode.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yes, yes.

Michelle Bishop:

All right. So, you didn’t want to walk in your cute shoes. Continue.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yeah, so didn’t want to walk in my cute shoes. So, I did what anyone else would do, I requested a Lyft outside of our building. And so, in requesting a Lyft, usually as a blind person, one thing that I do when the Lyft gets there is, I will call them and make sure that it’s their car, especially if I’m at a more busy place.

If I hear the car pull up, if I hear the car slow down in front of me, and the app ding, and there’s not really a lot of cars around, 9 times out of 10 it’s the car that I need, so I can open up the door. But we’re in DC, so there is a lot of traffic, there is a lot of noise, and so I’m not able to recognize what car is what.

So, I call my driver and I ask my driver if he is able to honk his horn so that I can find his car. Some drivers are not comfortable with that, which, understandable, especially being in a big city. But I also asked the driver to kind of keep an eye out for me. And the driver was like, “No, no.” And I’m like, “What is going on here?” So, he continues to say no. Finally relents and says, “Okay.”

And so, I’m trying to find the driver. I’m trying to figure out which car is his, and he just keeps telling me that he has a… I can’t remember what color his car was, but say he has a green blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, he has a green car, and he’s telling me how his flashers are going. And he’s like, “No, no, I can’t find you.” And he, eventually, after us kind of talking back and forth, I’m trying really hard not to lose my patience, and y’all, I had not had coffee by this point, so I think I did a pretty good job with that filter because usually it’s not existent if I don’t have coffee.

But the driver eventually said, “I don’t drive blind people around,” and hung up. And at this point-

Michelle Bishop:

Wow.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yeah. And at this point I’m just kind of overwhelmed. I’m like, “What am I going to do?” It’s 7:40, my meetings at 8:00, it’s rush hour in DC. It’s going to take me a minute to get to the building. Fortunately, I literally made it at 7:59.

But this is a prime example of transportation being something that isn’t always so seamless for individuals with disabilities. If I had had a car, I probably could have just jumped into that and driven over to the Hill. And now, granted, finding parking is a totally different story, but being able to get there in a more timely manner, and to have control of that. When you’re requesting rides like that, you don’t always have control.

And that’s just kind of an example of part of, I would think, why maybe employers would be worried about individuals with disabilities working in the workforce. These things that we cannot help, but that rideshare companies can help and ensure that individuals with disabilities, or even individuals in other minority communities, are able to get to and from their destinations without hassle.

Michelle Bishop:

So, how is it going advocating on TikTok?

Stephanie Flynt:

It’s interesting. I have actually gotten a little bit of attention, particularly from drivers who really are concerned about the policies, and they don’t understand the policies. I’ve noticed that with Uber, it’s actually the drivers are not as understanding of the policies.

So, Lyft seems to be doing a better job at educating their drivers on what the policies are, but I’ve seen that the drivers in their comments on my videos, are not necessarily educated on the policies, thinking that the law is optional, that the ADA is optional.

And taking individuals with disabilities in a rideshare is required under the ADA, including individuals with service animals. And so, we’ve been seeing, sadly, a lot of confusion. And so, I’m glad that I’m kind of helping to straighten some of these things out for those individuals. I’ve gotten messages from folks thanking me for clarifying these things.

I’ve also gotten messages from folks that are like, “Thank you for clarifying. Now I’m no longer going to drive for the company.” So, that’s been kind of interesting to see. But hey, at least they’re, I guess, following the law not driving, which is so terrible. It’s one of those things where that’s an essential function of your job at that point. You can’t just choose not to take someone. And at that point, if you’re not able to for whatever reason, then that’s an essential function of your job, then that means you can’t do your job, sadly.

Michelle Bishop:

And in this part of the country, that’s a major way that people get around.

Stephanie Flynt:

Absolutely. And in rural communities, that’s a major way that people get around. I’m very fortunate that I do live in DC. Well, I live in the Maryland area, but I live close enough to a metro station that I primarily can use the metro or public transit, the buses around the area.

But not everyone is as lucky. And I grew up in Mississippi, which meant that there was no such thing as public transportation. So, when people with disabilities in rural communities such as those in the state of Mississippi, or even the communities in Washington state that don’t have adequate public transportation, not being able to actually have the reliable transportation that’s needed, and not knowing if they’re going to be able to actually get a ride to their destination, or if they’re going to get discriminated against when they request the ride, it definitely can be anxiety producing.

Michelle Bishop:

I didn’t realize you were in Maryland. I’m in Virginia, so this is awkward. This means we are contractually obligated to beef with each other. It’s a whole Maryland-Virginia thing.

Stephanie Flynt:

Oh, yeah.

Michelle Bishop:

I know. This might be the end of the road for our beautiful friendship, Stephanie. I’m so sorry, but, I mean-

Stephanie Flynt:

It’s okay. Go Ravens and Old Bay.

Michelle Bishop:

I’m still coming to visit Nala, the service dog, though.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yes, yes.

Michelle Bishop:

Yeah. So, we’ll try to keep this-

Stephanie Flynt:

It would be very helpful. Yes.

Michelle Bishop:

… try to keep this copacetic.

Well, that was… I mean, if anyone else out there who’s listening, if you’ve had some of these experiences, or you have a spotlight story that you want to share in a future episode, you’ve got something going on that you’d love to see featured in our network updates from in the news, we’d love to hear from you. We can put some contact info in the notes with this podcast episode. Maybe we’ll even tell you where you can find Stephanie’s totally unassociated with NDRN TikTok account.

And with that, welcome back to the PandA Pod, everyone. We’re so excited to have you back. We are going to be launching new episodes on every month, so keep coming back. And if you’ve got some ideas for future episodes, let us know. We’ve got some things in the works, but we want this podcast to be as helpful as it can be for you all. So, please don’t hesitate to reach out if you’ve got ideas, or you’d like to be featured on a future episode. We’d love to have you.

Stephanie Flynt:

We would love to work with you.

Michelle Bishop:

Yes, absolutely true. Jack, is there anything we’re missing, before we wrap up today?

Jack Rosen:

A couple of producers notes. NDRN is now on LinkedIn. And to celebrate National Disability Employment Awareness Month, we are going to be doing a series of posts educating people with disabilities and employers about the rights of people with disabilities in the workplace. We’re going to cover everything from the interview and hiring process to, “Okay, now I’ve been hired, but I’m having these accommodation issues,” or “I’m being discriminated against. What can I do?” So, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. And, as well, you can check us out on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

Michelle Bishop:

Well, thanks everyone. Please do join us next month. For November, we’re going to be talking about the midterm elections and getting ready for Election Day. Thanks, everyone. We’ll see you next time.

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