We open up the vault to revisit guest host Amy Scherer’s previous interview with Liz Weintraub, where Liz discussed her journey from a sheltered workshop to a Senior Advocacy Specialist on the Public Policy team at the Association of University Centers on Disabilities. Then, we go back to the future, as Stephanie tells Jack and Michelle about White Cane Awareness Day.

Check out Liz’s video series Tuesdays with Liz https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEHWL7i0kECV8GSORs56oK7SP7GXHorOB

Learn more about White Cane Awareness Day https://nfb.org/programs-services/blind-equality-achievement-month/white-cane-awareness-day

Full transcript of this episode is available at https://www.ndrn.org/resource/panda-pod-october-23/ 

Michelle Bishop:

Hey everyone. Welcome back to NDRN’s podcast. And we have a really exciting month for you this month. But before we get to all of that goodness, I am Michelle Bishop. I’m the voter access and engagement manager at NDRN and one third of your amazing hosting team.

Stephanie Flynt:

And I’m Stephanie Flint, public policy analyst here at NDRN. And I am, I guess you could say, one fourth because we can’t forget Jack, Michelle. Why do you keep forgetting him?

Michelle Bishop:

No, I mean, why’d you have to steal my thunder? Because I was actually going to introduce him this month. This was going to be the first month, and now it looks like I’m a [inaudible 00:00:41].

Stephanie Flynt:

But you forgot Raquel. Raquel is unfortunately not going to be with us this month, but we cannot forget people even if they’re not around.

Michelle Bishop:

Yeah, I was going to.

Stephanie Flynt:

No hosts left behind.

Michelle Bishop:

Don’t send angry emails to podcast@ndrn.org. I didn’t forget about Raquel or Jack. Poor Raquel is out sick this month. Raquel, we love you. Get better.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yes.

Michelle Bishop:

I don’t know if this podcast is going to help you get better, so maybe listen to this when you come back and just eat soup and drink lots of water.

Stephanie Flynt:

Or beverage of choice and food of choice, whatever. Yeah.

Michelle Bishop:

No judgment. This is a judgment-

Stephanie Flynt:

No judgment.

Michelle Bishop:

And then now I was going to introduce our producer, Jack, but Stephanie already put it out there. So hi, Jack. We’re so happy you’re here with us this month. If you want to introduce yourself to the people.

Jack Rosen:

Thank you for the warm welcome. It’s always great to be here. This is producer Jack Rosen, and this month we are going to do things a little differently. We have a throwback episode. Michelle, you want to tell people what it’s about?

Michelle Bishop:

Whoop whoop. Yes. We’re pulling from the vault this month. This month is actually National Disability Employment Awareness Month, one of the most important months of the year. Well, I think November is the most important because that’s election day. But the other most important month of the year is Disability Employment Month. And we actually have an amazing interview we pulled from the vault with Liz Weintraub talking all about disability and employment. So please enjoy.

Jack Rosen:

And if you’ve already heard that one before, because you listened to the podcast on your way to work every day, and we only have 15 episodes, so you’re like, “Wow, I’ve heard that episode literally 50 times.” Don’t worry. We have some new content at the end. Stephanie is going to be telling us all about White Cane Day, so enjoy the episode folks.

Amy Scherer:

Liz, you’re always so willing to help us out in any way that we ask you to, and I really, really appreciate that, so.

Liz Weintraub:

Oh, thank you.

Amy Scherer:

We’re doing this in honor of the National Disability Employment Awareness Month and your journey from going from a shelter workshop to a competitive integrated employment position, and not a lot of people have done that. So you’re a great example that can hopefully be used to help others. But let’s go ahead and start at the beginning.

Liz Weintraub:

Okay.

Amy Scherer:

When you came out of high school, what was the start of your employment journey at that point?

Liz Weintraub:

Okay. I graduated from boarding school for people with intellectual disability. It was actually the best school of my life. And you might be saying why? Because it was not an inclusive environment, the kind of environment that I fight for every day, but it was a school that I felt like I wasn’t bullied and I could have friends and I could have… My friends gave me the respect that I deserve. So it was after I graduated the school, the headmaster, talked to the parents about what the next steps, and they recommended to my parents that I should go into a private institution.

Amy Scherer:

Was that a surprise to you, given that you had a positive experience at the school and had really enjoyed that? Were you expecting the next step to be potentially a private institution?

Liz Weintraub:

No, and I was very upset because I have thought more about this since I graduated. When I graduated, I probably didn’t think anything of it. I was just told to go there and I went there. But since I became an advocate, I have thought a lot about it. I was very upset because my friends from that school who I went to school… Some of my friends were in my classes. Some of them I lived with. They all went to college. They went to a college program for people with disability. But I went to this private institution, and my parents didn’t think anything about it until I got there. And it was actually kind of interesting because I stayed… After the second day, I called home. I remember calling home and crying and saying to my parents, “I don’t like this.” And they said, “Well, we’re working on something.” And speed up, after about a year, maybe two years, my parents begged me to go home and actually live where I’m living now and where I’m getting the support from the agency that I’m getting right now.

Amy Scherer:

Fantastic. So you pretty much spent about two years, it sounds like, in the institution and-

Liz Weintraub:

No, nine years.

Amy Scherer:

Nine years. Oh, nine years. Okay. Nine years in the institution.

Liz Weintraub:

And if you wait a minute, I’ll tell you why.

Amy Scherer:

Okay, sure.

Liz Weintraub:

I stayed there because even though my parents begged me to come home, I really believe that if I listened to my parents, I would never be who I am today. I would never have been able to speak up for myself. I would never have been able to make my own decisions because I would just do whatever mom and dad wanted me to give. They told me to go to the institution, I went. If they told me to go home, if I listened to them, I would never have learned how to stand up for myself.

Amy Scherer:

That’s a great lesson for all of us to hear. So you, basically, it sounds like, came to the decision on your own outside of what your parents were suggesting that you needed to get in a different situation. Is that correct?

Liz Weintraub:

Yeah.

Amy Scherer:

So I believe you spent some time in a sheltered workshop. Was that while you were in the institution or did that happen after you came out?

Liz Weintraub:

No, when I was living in an institution. I worked in two places. I worked in a place where I did kind of workshop. I mean, worksheets, like math sheets that you would get when you were a kid. And I would do office type of work, and it just was a horrible experience. And then-

Amy Scherer:

Was that in a warehouse situation or were you in an office? Do you remember anything about the environment that you were in when you were doing that?

Liz Weintraub:

Office.

Amy Scherer:

Okay. It was in an office, okay.

Liz Weintraub:

And then I graduated from that program, but I was still in the same institution. And I worked in a shopper’s guide where you had papers. They used stuff for supermarkets that you get at the supermarket.

Amy Scherer:

Right, like the coupons or the flyers, that type of thing?

Liz Weintraub:

Yes. And there was a table, probably more of a typical workshop that we know of where there was probably seven or eight people from the institution and two staff people. It was just an awful experience because it wasn’t in a warehouse like Costco or those kind of stores. Sam’s warehouse for buying things.

Amy Scherer:

And it was not a job that you particularly enjoyed doing, it sounds like.

Liz Weintraub:

No. No.

Amy Scherer:

So tell me what happened next after that in terms of your employment journey.

Liz Weintraub:

Well, I got out of the institution. The way I got out of the workshop and got into a real job because I worked in a library for the rest of the time that I was in the institution. I had a library job outside of the institution that I just adore. It was probably one of the best job, beside my job today, that I had.

Amy Scherer:

And did the people that were working with you at the institution, did they help you get that library job?

Liz Weintraub:

Yes. Yes.

Amy Scherer:

Okay, great.

Liz Weintraub:

But the way I got out of the institution was I faked seizures.

Amy Scherer:

Wow.

Liz Weintraub:

I faked seizures and I would rock and rock and rock and rock and rock, and I would run away when I got upset. I studied people when they had seizures, and I could notice how they were treating… They had seizures, and I don’t mean to make fun of people because I know seizures are really serious things, but that’s the only way I knew that I could have people stop and listen.

Amy Scherer:

Yeah, wow. Did that then lead to a change where you were able to be in a different circumstance?

Liz Weintraub:

Yeah. I still was living in that institution because my parents didn’t think anything else that I should move. And so I went to a conference one day, and a national conference, and two of my best friends who happened, they were talking to some people from Massachusetts. Again, Massachusetts was at that time just starting to work on self-advocacy, and they wanted to hire someone to help them with self-advocacy. Two of my friends, so two people from Massachusetts saw me at this conference and offered me a job. My main job was to work on quality assurance.

Amy Scherer:

Fantastic.

Liz Weintraub:

And they had a survey that they give to people that live… To providers to interview people, and then they did some trainings. And one of the other interesting part of that story is… And I learned this, a very important lesson. Is I kept on saying to people in my interview before I got the job, “I want to be treated just like everyone else.” The only issue in the training department was at the institution. I said to my friend, I said, “Why am I in the institution? Why am I in the institution? I don’t want to be in the institution. I was in the institution. I got out of the institution.” And she said, “You want to be treated just like everyone else, so you’re going to be treated like everyone else. And that’s where the training department was.” I wanted to do more traveling and more seeing the world, and I also wanted to live closer to mom and dad.

I left the job. I went back to the conference where I found my job in Massachusetts. And somebody recommended a job called the Counseling Quality Leadership. And I stayed there for 16 years where I did survey work and I also did some training work, and it was just a great job.

Amy Scherer:

Great. And so that sounds like that built directly on what you had already been doing with the survey work and the quality assurance. Where was this job located that you stayed at for 16 years?

Liz Weintraub:

The headquarter was in Baltimore, but people were all over the country. They wanted me to move from Massachusetts to Baltimore, and as I said, I wanted to live closer to mom and dad. But once I met, at that time, my boyfriend, now my husband, and he was living in the Rockville area where we live today. So I begged and begged and begged my supervisor if I could work from home, just like everyone else. And I would travel when I needed to. And they agreed to. And then I got bored about doing that. So-

Amy Scherer:

Well, 16 years is a long time, so you didn’t get bored too quickly, but then you just got to a point where you were ready to move on to the next step.

Liz Weintraub:

Yeah. And then I found my job at AUCD.

Amy Scherer:

That is great. So tell us a little bit about how you found your job at AUCD.

Liz Weintraub:

AUCD was doing a project, the Self-Advocacy Summit, and AUCD knew that they could not… It was actually a project that ACL was doing about [inaudible 00:15:24], and AUCD knew that they could not do that work without a self-advocate, so they hired me.

Amy Scherer:

That is fantastic. And so what were your job responsibilities when they hired you? What did you have to do each day?

Liz Weintraub:

I was doing part-time work, so I was working for CQO and AUCD, but what I was doing was I helped them set webinars. I went to all the summits. After all the summits were over, I wrote their reports. I helped them write a plain language report. After that was all done, I had a vision of doing a video show.

Amy Scherer:

Well, and let’s talk a little bit about Tuesdays with Liz.

Liz Weintraub:

Tuesdays with Liz has been around for four years. It’s a YouTube show where I make policy in accessible and fun ways for people to understand. And my idea has always been, and it began with my idea, maybe it was a selfish idea, but I think everything begins with you in some ways. When I was little, I sat at the table and the dining room table with all my family, and I never understood what a policy was. I never understood what home community-based services was. I never understood what this was. I never understood what that was. So I wanted to make sure, and when I had the opportunity right after the summit, to develop a YouTube show that people could understand what a policy was so they could go up to the hill, whether it was here in Annapolis and Maryland or in DC to talk about, “Okay, I know what the Able Act is. I know what Transformative Competitive Employment Act is, and I know-”

Amy Scherer:

Exactly.

Liz Weintraub:

Yeah.

Amy Scherer:

So it sounds like your goal, and it sounds like your goal is still today, that you want to make policy accessible and understandable to everybody so that it’s clear what policies exist today and what type of advocacy needs to be done. Is that what your goal is?

Liz Weintraub:

Yes.

Amy Scherer:

Fantastic.

Liz Weintraub:

And we have even done that with our newsletter, called the Disability Policy News. There’s a piece of it that I edit every week for plain language, and some of the words can’t be changed because it’s part of the law. Part of words are the way it is, but that way we have a plain language that we can talk about it.

Amy Scherer:

And can you kind of say why plain language is so important for people who may not know about plain language or why we strive to make things in plain language? Why is that important to you and to others?

Liz Weintraub:

Great question. Thank you. I think plain language is important because it helps people belong to the conversation. It’s help people to understand that they can contribute. And if there’s no plain language… And there’s so many times I’ve gone to a meeting and people talk in big words. I don’t mean 17 letters. I mean big words that I don’t understand. Sometimes there’s 17 letters, but sometimes they’re just big words. And if I can’t understand it, I feel like I want to cry because I’m not part of the conversation and I can’t be part of the conversation and I don’t want to be part of the conversation.

Amy Scherer:

That’s a very important point. And if people want to find Tuesdays with Liz, can they search on YouTube or how would they find your show?

Liz Weintraub:

You can go to aucd.org or you can google Tuesdays with Liz.

Amy Scherer:

Fantastic. And do you actually have input into the people that you’re going to interview? Do you have to come up with the questions?

Liz Weintraub:

Yes, yes. How we do it is that the team of us, the director of policy, the producer, and myself. And that’s why we need to wait for the producer. But as I said, we’re still doing past episodes, mostly on voting, because voting is important these days.

Amy Scherer:

Absolutely.

Liz Weintraub:

We come up with who we think would be good people to interview, whether it’s a topic that is in the news, whether it’s a topic that AUCD is working on, or whether it’s just a topic that I think that people might be interested in.

Amy Scherer:

That sounds fantastic. And is that sort of the main part of your job now at AUCD as well as helping to make sure the documents are in plain language like we talked about? Is that in the podcast, your two main responsibilities at this point?

Liz Weintraub:

Yes. And I should say the questions are all probably 90% my ideas because it’s what I’m interested in. And sometimes my supervisor, the director of public policy, Rylin Rodgers, will suggest things.

Amy Scherer:

Great. Great. Do you have any particular accommodations for your disability when you’re working at AUCD? Do they set things up in a different way, or is there anything that makes it easier for you to be able to do your job well that you can share?

Liz Weintraub:

Well, I think we have tried a voice recognition for me to learn how to type faster because I know that my mother would be rolling in her grave, but I still type like a hand pack typist. It’s just hard for me to use two hands. It’s really important that I feel very supported in my job. And I’ll give you example, and this is so wonderful. AUCD has changed emails, servers, and I don’t understand what it’s called. But anyway, and I got frustrated. I didn’t know how to work things. I didn’t know what it looked like. And I got scared. And the web person at work walked me through it, and it was just wonderful. And now, I’m happy and I can do things myself. And yes, it’s nice to know that I have a [inaudible 00:23:31] with my husband.

Amy Scherer:

And the other thing that seems to run through your story as you have recounted it to us today, is that you’ve had good communication with your supervisors.

Liz Weintraub:

Even people above your supervisor. If there’s a problem with your supervisor, and this has never happened to me, but if I ever had a problem with my supervisor, people have often… People have said to all of us, “You can talk to the ED of AUCD.” Because I could have a problem with my supervisor. I think it’s also important that I don’t… People with disability need to be accountable for their job and what they say and they do. And if we mess up, okay, we mess up, but we can’t say, “Oh yeah, you’re a person with a disability. We’ll overlook that.”

Amy Scherer:

That is a very important point. Very important.

Liz Weintraub:

Treat me just like everyone else, like me going into the institution. Did I like going into the institution? No, but that’s where the training department was and that’s how being treated just like everyone else. And then the other thing I’ll say is about giving me real work to do, not busy work I’m doing at AUCD. I’m doing real work. I’m contributing. I think I basically said it, but I’ll say it to us. Nothing about us without us. And that means if there’s something involving me or my friends, I should be at that table. Not me personally. Well, maybe me personally-

Amy Scherer:

That’d be fine too.

Liz Weintraub:

Yeah. But other people? And then all means that we all need to be included.

Amy Scherer:

That is perfect way to end this conversation. I really enjoyed spending the time with you today, Liz, and I’m so glad that we’re able to share your story as widely as possible.

Liz Weintraub:

Okay, thank you. Be safe and happy and play enough. Goodbye.

Jack Rosen:

Oh, wow. That was such a great episode with Liz. Interesting to listen to some of the podcasts before I became the producer with the old hosting team.

Michelle Bishop:

I was still here, actually. I’m pretty sure I’m the only person who is an OG from the old podcast, but we remain huge fans of Liz Weintraub. Liz, thank you so much.

Jack Rosen:

Producers note. That was actually not the old hosting team. It was staff attorney, Amy Sheer. Amy, thank you for doing our work this month. All right, back to the show.

Amy Scherer:

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s always really good to kind of listen back on different perspectives and especially around this time of year when it comes to celebrating in deem, as a lot of people call it. So yeah, definitely a really good interview that of course offers different perspectives. And Liz is just such an incredible human. I feel like we learn something new every single time we chat with her or listen to different stories that she has. And so definitely love. I’m so glad that you guys got to hear her perspective this month and some of you getting to hear that as an encore this month.

Michelle Bishop:

Things we’ve learned so far in this episode, we are Liz Weintraub fan girls, and cool kids call it envying. Okay. So Stephanie, take it away and tell us what exactly is White Cane Day. What do we need to know?

Stephanie Flynt:

Yeah, thank you so much. Super excited to spotlight White Cane Safety Day. So White Cane Safety Day has actually been a thing since October 15th of 1964. There was a joint congressional resolution in 1964, and it was signed by Linda B. Johnson to proclaim that White Cane Safety Day be honored on October 15th to essentially create awareness around the white cane. Now, the white cane, a lot of people see it as a symbol of a blind person, but the way that blind people see it, and maybe I shouldn’t speak for all blind people, right? But I can tell you that the folks in my blind friend group, we all see it as a symbol of independence, right? It’s a way that we are able to go various places. It helps us detect obstacles, it ensures our safety. The first white cane law, believe it or not, blind people were not always “allowed”, quote, unquote, or given the right, rather, to travel on our own.

And the first white cane law was actually passed in the 1930s. And since then, thankfully, all states now have some reiteration of a white cane law that essentially gives blind people the freedom to travel, but also to… Essentially, the white cane law makes it to where motorists must yield to blind pedestrians when it comes to traffic and crossing streets and those types of things. A lot of the time, particularly when it comes to hybrid cars, sometimes it used to be harder to tell. Thankfully, we have passed the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act back in 2011 where all cars have to make some sort of noise, including the hybrid ones. But for a while, that definitely came in handy when the cars were supposed to yield to us, so to speak. So all that to be said, we do really see that as a symbol of independence.

It’s been super helpful along the way. And believe it or not, these laws actually also extend to guide dogs. Something that’s not as well known. Some people use different versions of the white cane. Some people have red tips on the bottom. And a lot of people, that’s probably the most customary white cane that you see a white cane with a red tip. Not everybody’s going to have a red tip at the bottom of their white cane. Mine actually does not. So different people use different versions created by different individuals. So there are of course the straight white canes. There are some that fold. There are some that telescope. Just various ones across the board to kind of help individuals get a feel of what they would like to get. And what I mean by that is some white canes, at least in my experience, I prefer a lighter white cane.

And the reason that I prefer a cane that’s lighter in my hand is because I feel like I get more feedback. Some people prefer a cane that’s a little bit more heavier or a little bit heavier because canes are more… The argument is that the canes are more durable that way, but everybody kind of has… Different blind people decide to use whatever mobility device is going to best fit or meet their needs rather. Some individuals use canes, some individuals use guide dogs, but either way, the white cane goes beyond just the white cane. It continues to serve as a level of independence to this day. So I know that was kind of rambly, but super, super excited that I’m able to kind of spotlight that.

Michelle Bishop:

Well, very cool, Stephanie, thanks for sharing that with us. And I assume our listeners to the podcast know that you are blind because we do frequently reference Nala, everyone’s favorite service dog, who is a frequent guest, actually, on NDRN social media accounts. So we have to go to this next, don’t we? I think we do. There’s no getting out of this. Stephanie, do you have a joke this month?

Stephanie Flynt:

I do, but I also have a statement first.

Michelle Bishop:

Okay. I’m scared. Yes.

Stephanie Flynt:

So before we started recording, I told Michelle about the origin of my joke and y’all, she said she was so excited. I know it’s not on recording, but it’s here. It happened. Michelle likes my jokes.

Michelle Bishop:

You have no proof. You have no proof that I ever said that. We were not recording, and I will not stand for this kind of slander.

Stephanie Flynt:

Anyway. Okay. This really isn’t as much of a joke as it is a question because I was doing some digging on Google just regarding Halloween stuff in general. And then, you know how Google does these suggested questions that come up? So one of the suggested questions actually was what do witches eat on their bagels? And of course I clicked on it because I’m like, “What does this mean? Is this some new children’s book that I don’t know of?” But anyway, what do y’all think the answer to that question was?

Jack Rosen:

What do witches eat on their bagels?

Stephanie Flynt:

Yes. Also, why are people googling that? Why is it so googled that that question comes up whenever you’re trying to google Halloween costumes for your dog? I don’t understand.

Michelle Bishop:

I’m trying to think of something witchy, but it could also just be scream cheese.

Stephanie Flynt:

It is scream cheese.

Michelle Bishop:

Oh no.

Stephanie Flynt:

Michelle is two for two.

Michelle Bishop:

Oh, I’m starting to know the answer to too many of these. Oh no, there actually was a third I knew the answer to, but I couldn’t unmute in time. So there are three recently that I have known the answer to.

Stephanie Flynt:

I swear I don’t prep Michelle in advance to know the answer to these jokes.

Michelle Bishop:

She doesn’t. And Michelle is always a little disappointed in herself.

Stephanie Flynt:

I don’t know, maybe you’re the one who googled that question and it came up.

Michelle Bishop:

I googled it at the [inaudible 00:33:28] on everyone’s Google.

Stephanie Flynt:

Yes.

Michelle Bishop:

Well, the people did need to know what witches put on their bagels. That’s a given.

Stephanie Flynt:

I mean, team butter on my bagels. I don’t like cream cheese, but that’s just me.

Jack Rosen:

I’m with Stephanie on this one. And if you’d like to keep up with us, you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram. And you can reach out to the podcast at podcast@ndrn.org. Until next time.

Stephanie Flynt:

It’s X now.

Michelle Bishop:

Happy ending, everyone. Happy Halloween, and Raquel, we miss you. Get better soon.

Stephanie Flynt:

Bye.