In this episode, a foster and adoptive parent shares her experience of caring for her biological, adoptive and foster children.

Voiceover: Welcome to the Mothers on the Frontline Podcast. Today, as part of our Just Ask Mom series, we listen to a foster and adoptive parent speak about her experience caring for over 100 foster children.

Tammy: Hi. So, just tell us a little bit about yourself. Before or outside of mothering, what are your passions, interests? What do you love to do?

Interviewee: Well, I love kids and so, I’ve kind of embedded my entire life with lots of children that surround me and my other passion outside of my children would be gardening and being outside and taking in nature.

Tammy: Very nice. Do you do that with the children sometimes or is that your escape?

Interviewee: We do. It’s kind of a combination. I like to ride the lawnmower and then I pretend that I’m on some wild motorcycle and I’m on a long drive across the United States and feeling the wind in my hair and I can’t hear anybody yelling, “Mom! Mom!” Over this lawnmower. So, that’s my escape.

Tammy: That’s a great one. They have to catch up.

Interviewee: Yeah. That’s right.

Tammy: That’s awesome. So, I want you to pretend that you’re talking to people who are considering fostering or adopting a child and so, they’re potentially thinking of doing this, what would you like them to know about your experiences and what you’ve learned along the way?

Interviewee: So, I’ve been a foster parent for several years. My husband and I chose when we moved back to the Midwest, we chose that we would do this for an indigenous group of people to help out the community. We have had so far, in the 16 years that we’ve done this, we’ve had 105 placements in our home which requires you know, new furniture, new carpet at the times. There’s a lot of fear with fostering. People feel that they’re going to be attached. What happens when, if their foster parents and they become attached to that child and the child leaves them? Well, then you go through a grieving process of course, but in foster care, the most important piece that you are to do is you are to be the calm in the storm for that child and you’re focusing on reunification for that child and their parents. Sometimes, that does not occur and then you look outside the box and look at relative placements or other, potential perhaps if it goes to termination and adoptive home if you’re not considering that yourself. So, there’s the fear factor of you’re going to break your heart, what happens, and that’s natural. I’ve done this for a long time and every time a child leaves my home they take a piece of my heart with them but it doesn’t mean it’s the end.

Tammy: Does it get easier or?

Interviewee: I would never say that it gets easier. It’s still, you still go through that grieving process. The thing that we have done that works well for our family unit is we connect with the birth families and we try to mentor the parents whether it be a single mom, maybe a single dad, sometimes it is a partnership and so we try to mentor we’re not saying we’re perfect by no means but we try to mentor that couple to help them overcome the obstacles that allow them to have the child removed and so, we try to mentor them to become better parents and so if that happens we’re able to have that ongoing relationship with that child and with that family.

Tammy: So, it’s almost like they’re adopting the family.

Interviewee: Exactly, exactly.

Tammy: Right. What about people who are thinking of adopting?

Interviewee: So there’s when a child is placed, if you do through the foster care program and you are placed with a child and it does go to termination, generally, the services like to keep the child within so that they don’t develop attachment disorders or have post-traumatic stress disorders with another removal, another home, and another set of families. If things are going well in that foster family and they are a pre-adopt home they really would like for the child to stay within that home and so, your chances to adopt a child through the foster care system could, it’s potentially…

Tammy: Does it increase your chances?

Interviewee: I would say it does. I don’t wanna, It makes me feel like you’re in the market of a marketing babies of children you know.

Tammy: Right.

Interviewee: So, I’m not sure what words I’m searching for it to say but it — yeah, if you’re a foster parent you have the potential then to become that child’s adoptive parent.

Tammy: Right.

Interviewee: A pretty good chance anyways.

Tammy: So, I mean that’s. So, many kids it’s first of all, just thank you. That’s amazing. What you’re doing for our whole community is amazing. What, in this experience and you’ve got a lot of experience, what has been a barrier and getting help for your children something that really hasn’t worked that has been a challenge that you wish it could be different for others in the future?

Interviewee: Sometimes there’s resources that are available but they are harder to receive if you’re in a rural area. Transportation is a concern. I also see that not only for the child that maybe needs therapy and to receive a good therapist. There’s a big distance from a rural area to a larger city where the majority of really good therapists are.

Tammy: Yeah.

Interviewee: Should a child need that? Another barrier I see is the court orders parents to do many things to get, to ensure that they are going to be better parents and that you know, to ensure that they can handle their child if their child is reunified. But a lot of times, you’re working in a cycle and so you know, there’s addictions or whatever the case may be but usually they don’t have a driver’s license or there’s a low…

Tammy: They can’t get to this.

Interviewee: Exactly or they’re low income and so, they set these parameters in place and say, “Okay. You need to do A, B, C, and D but you can’t even get to step A because I don’t have a car. I don’t have a car to try to get a job.” or I don’t have the education perhaps to get the job that will pay pretty good wages to help me get a car or I have bad credit or I mean there’s all kinds of obstacles in the beginning to get to A you know, before you can ever get to D and so, I see that as problematic at times when I’ve set through some orders placed by the court that the parents have to do things which I understand why they are doing it but there needs to be reap perhaps other resources available to help these people that are typically in rural areas.

Tammy: So you say all the problems you mentioned are just magnified by that distance to where the services are.

Interviewee: Exactly, Correct.

Tammy: If you can’t drive but you’re in a rural area, there’s no public transportation.

Interviewee: Exactly.

Tammy: There’s no other option.

Interviewee: Exactly, yeah.

Tammy: So, that’s a really good point, yeah. Are there are other things that you think of that just really made it tricky?

Interviewee: You know, every program you’re involved in you know, they have their ways and their rules which I, you know, I respect that but sometimes they’re not open to other ideas and so, you feel like sometimes you come up with this really good idea of, “Hey, why are we doing it this way when we could possibly be doing something over here?” And but you feel like you’re hitting a brick wall.

Tammy: Yeah.

Interviewee: And as a foster parent and an adoptive parent and as with any parent we want what is best for our child and so, when a child is placed with us, that’s, I really take pride in being a good foster parent. One of the, you know, one of the first things I do for the kids that are placed with us is we have a Spa Day and so, we get all, I give them a bath and we do their hair and we get all lotioned up and you know, you’ll make sure there’s no allergies but for an example I have had one little boy that had Eczema, really bad and he felt like a little alligator. His skin and it was not his fault by no means and it was not the fault of his birth mother. I mean, she didn’t have the means for the medication.

Tammy: Exactly.

Interviewee: But, I had experienced with my, our son having Eczema and so, I had the lotion that we use on him and so, I started putting on this little boy and he started softening up and he noticed it himself and he would go up to people and he’d say, “Touch me. Feel me. I’m soft.” So, you know I just really gave, made me feel good to know that even he was noticing that I was, we were taking pride in taking care of him and again not to by any means condemn you know, his birth family. You know, they did what they needed to do with the funds that they had.

Tammy: Exactly.

Interviewee: So, you know, there’s limitations, financial limitations is a lot. It’s…

Tammy: It has to be heartbreaking.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Tammy: I mean that story is heartbreaking. It’s such a simple thing.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Tammy: Yeah.

Interviewee: So, I pride myself and I just, I want to build that self-esteem. It’s hard enough you know, when a child is removed it’s traumatizing and so, I want to make that transition into our home very, very easy and very peaceful and relaxing and so, you have to be very careful especially if a child has been molested.

Tammy: Yeah.

Interviewee: So, I take it very slow but I gain their trust and we work forward with you know, through things and make it enjoyable for them for that self-esteem.

Tammy: Yeah. That’s wonderful. So, these are some things that are difficult. What has worked really well and getting help for some of the children you’ve worked with that, that just work really well?

Interviewee: So, I’m very fortunate for the area that we live in. We have a network that is there’s a person within that branch that is amazing and so, I can call upon that person and say what I need and that person is really good at helping us meet the needs of the child. Should that person leave this position that they’re currently in? I’ll be at a loss.

Tammy: I hear that a lot. So, it’s a little frightening though when it depends upon the goodwill or great skills of an individual.

Interviewee: Exactly. Yeah, and I’ve worked with several different folks and this, this man, in particular, has been the best gentleman I have ever, ever worked with because the thing is he is very compassionate about children and the thing about him that I really admire is he’s an adoptive parent himself and he’s a single parent and so, he also knows the struggles and so, it just he just really, he just jumps in full force with all his heart to help other people because I’m sure that over the courses of the years his children are older. He saw the struggles.

Tammy: Right. One of the things I’m hearing you say, you had mentioned earlier and even now because you’ve worked with so many different children just being able to be flexible and give that child, what that child needs, is there something that you can say about that? Because you mentioned how sometimes places do it the way they do it and it’s sort of rigid and it might not work for this particular child.

Interviewee: Right.

Tammy: When you think about policies and practices of organizations and state agencies and all these different things that work with the kids, is there something you can think of where that flexibility has been better than other places? I mean, I know that’s a tough question but…

Interviewee: Yeah, and we’ve seen so many cutbacks recently through the programs in the state. There’s you know, their funds are being cut back, services are being cut back, workers are being overworked and receive more caseloads with less help. A whole program was done away with and the matching system for when you’re… it used to be that there is a matching system. So, you would be in a database and they would match the criteria of a child with the family and that, that has gone away which is really unfortunate because they’re, the one of the things that you have to do when you get into foster parenting or being an adoptive parent, you have to ask whether you’re going to do it by yourself or if you’re going to be with a partner. You have to ask what am I capable of doing. What can I do and what can I not do? I knew one of the things, what age limit or what age group can I work with and what age group, do I not feel that I am going to best serve.

Tammy: Right.

Interviewee: And so, that’s something that, that we did as a family and I knew that I could not take a child that would require shots. Now, it’s very, I mean, to some people that’s really easy but I just knew that I could not take a needle and jam it into a child. I just knew I couldn’t do that.

Tammy: Right.

Interviewee: So, I had that put in the database that if you know, unfortunately, if a child was diabetic or needed some sort of medical treatment that required daily injections, I couldn’t do it.

Tammy: But now without that matching system?

Interviewee: And so, it’s not there yet. So, I still in when they call for a placement that is one of the things that I do is I go back to our initial. What can I do? What can I not do? We never take a child older than our youngest child.

Tammy: Oh, I see.

Interviewee: And so, whatever age our youngest child is then the child that we’re going to place cannot be older than that child because there’s still, we still, our family still comes first. I mean, you know.

Tammy: Right.

Interviewee: So, we still do one-on-ones with our family we have a relatively large sibling group at our house and we make sure that they all receive individual treatment. Now, they each have an opinion on that of course.

Tammy: Are there some teenagers wishing they weren’t getting one-on-one? 

Interviewee:  Yeah.

Tammy: Ok. [laugh]

Interviewee: Yes. Yeah, there’s some teenagers that don’t want to have mom and dad time and would rather be by themselves and then we have some who just you know, want to be in your bubble non-stop but again, we have, with our family you know, we have older and we have younger and that the one thing that I never thought about is how hard that is because when they’re all the same age group kind of you know, they all kind of watch the same thing and you know, your schedules kind of the same and it’s structured and but when you have teenagers and some that are not teenagers, single digits and double digits, you have different movies that they like to watch, music that they like to listen to, a whole new vocabulary that you pick up in middle school apparently. That’s never on the vocabulary list of course.

Tammy: Of course, right.

Interviewee: And friends, so it’s really hard and then sleep pattern you know, the older ones can go stay up a little bit later than the younger ones and the younger ones can’t understand why they can’t do this because the older ones are and so, there’s the struggle you know, but I know every parent faces that but I never thought about it until I faced it.

Tammy: So, I’m listening to you, I’m thinking how do you do that? Because you want to give attention to each child but you still get the same twenty-four hours a day to the rest of us get. How do you manage and…

Interviewee: So, we balance. We balance our time.

Tammy: Okay.

Interviewee: So, we do as, before we ever take a child into our home, our family, we sat down, we discuss it and we vote on it.

Tammy: Oh, wow! That’s wonderful.

Interviewee: So, I say that we are foster parents but actually we are a foster family. So, we all have to agree on taking this child in or each home is licensed for a number of children. So, our home is right now licensed for two children and so, if I would get a call then we would have a family meeting somehow, sometimes the call comes during the day is a little bit harder. So, we rely on text messaging group text but we discuss it. You know, do you do you guys want to do this? Are you up to it?

Tammy: Right.

Interviewee: We really listen to our kids. So, they’re the ones that really kind of steer the boat on that decision but I can’t I cannot say that we’ve ever had a bad placement.

Tammy: That’s a wonderful thing to hear.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Tammy: So, I’m hearing a lot about your kids and what you do for them. But I want to hear about you? How are you doing in this moment, when your [?] changes? 

Interviewee: So again you, you were talking about you know, how you balance things out and so, I do focus a lot on our kids and we do a lot of one-on-one. So, we have special time like, so for an example my husband or I may say to one or two of the kids, “Hey, we’re going to go for ice cream” and so, it’s a special treat. So, they still feel that I’m special and that’s really, really important but I can’t stress enough about couples and we’re whether you’re a couple partnered or whether you’re single self-care, being a parent in whatever situation it may be, whether you have you know, your own kids in a single-parent setting or whether you know, maybe you have a special needs child but your, your self-care is vitally important. If you can’t take care of yourself then you cannot in, you cannot really take care of your family or the children and they sense that. They pick up on it really easily.

Tammy: So, at this moment do you feel like you’re swimming, you’re sinking, where do you feel like you’re at? Because most of the moms and we talked to in my own experience, I know moment to moment that changes. Some days I’m top of the world and other days I’m under it.

Interviewee: Yeah. So, I work full-time and we have several kids at home that are our children and then we have again like I said two placements available for two and those are filled. We had, for a while we had a smaller child. So, we had three little ones on top of all of ours. So, that was 11 kids and you know, managing the kids and I’m really calendar-based, it’s fine. My biggest problem is laundry.

Tammy: I can’t even imagine.

Interviewee: So, and that just freaks me out. So, that’s my biggest thing. So, I’m up early. You know, the washing machine and the dryer go non-stop at our house. I almost wish I had a dual set you know. So and then I would I would organize the days. Today’s Jean day and whites and next day would be towels you know, and I would organize the days but I have broken down so that our kids all do specific want their laundry, the older ones on specific days and they’re responsible for their laundry. So, now we have a son going into junior high and he just said to me, “I guess I have to learn how to do my laundry now.” So, he caught on real quick.

Tammy: That’s great.

Interviewee: Anyway, so, that’s my big thing is staying caught up you know, making sure that our home is livable and not look like we just live there. I’m drop and go but you know, with school activities and so, forth you know, as we approach the school year, it’s going to get busy and as it is with everyone’s household and I’m sure everybody can relate or you know you, you’re dropping things and you’re grabbing something to eat and you’re out the door to the next activity and then you come home and it’s like, “Oh, it’s facing me. There’s the dishes” or “There’s another pile of laundry.”

Tammy: Yeah. But I like how you make that a family project. Everybody is pitching in, that can, you know and it’s a schedule…

Interviewee: Yeah. Everybody at our house has a responsibility whether it’s taking out the garbage, whether it’s feeding the dogs, whether it’s watering my plants, everybody and so, I’m sure that my children, when their friends come over, they probably think, “Oh, my gosh.” You know, because they are. I mean, I’m like a drill sergeant probably too those other kids but my kids are used to it but it’s like, “Okay. You need to do this. You need to do that.” But, the advantage to that is my older kids have jobs and I cannot tell you the number of times I have been praised for my kids that they’re good workers, that they have good work ethics and I…

Tammy: Yeah. That’s going to serve them their entire lives.

Interviewee: Yes, exactly. So, the times I badger them to pick up their room or to take out the trash has paid off. So, and I do the same thing with the children that are placed with us in foster care, they have responsibilities. If you take the toy out, you put the toy back. I’m not going to step on a Lego. I’m not going to fly across the room on your problem.

Tammy: Right, but that’s making them part of the family

Interviewee: It does and makes them feel they are included and that’s really, that self-worth is so vitally important.

Tammy: That’s wonderful. So, what is your self-care routine? What do you do to take care of you? So, do you like have a mommy time to get away or what do you do?

Interviewee: So, I do. So, the kids laugh at me about it because I go out of town to get my hair cut, and after I get my hair cut, then I go out for dinner by myself and I enjoy a hot meal by myself with all my friends, me, myself, and I.

Tammy: And you get to finish it while it’s hot.

Interviewee: It is so, and I can have the seconds, it’s uninterrupted, and I really enjoy that and my kids laugh at me about it. I can’t believe you like to do that by yourself and that’s one of the things that I like to do. Then again, like the other thing I like to do is I like to mow the grass on my pretend motorcycle.

Tammy: That’s right.

Interviewee: That’s really a John Deere lawn mower, but I enjoy doing that. I belong to a mom’s group and we get together periodically. It’s mostly about fundraising for our kids you know, and doing activities in the school but I really, really enjoy that and I know that they do as well.

Tammy: That’s good.

Interviewee: We tried to stay on task but there’s, you know, a lot of stories and laughters that go with it.

Tammy: So, a lot of support.

Interviewee: It is.

Tammy: So, it’s great to have that support.

Interviewee: Yeah, and so, I really enjoy that. But again, I think it’s really important whether it’s the moms or the dads to have that in their lives, that self-care to take care of yourself so that you can take care of others.

Tammy: That’s right. So, you have to have many laughable moments with so many kids in and out of your life and in your family. What is your most laughable moment that comes to mind?

Interviewee: So, I have a lot of stories and I’ve been told. So, I do Facebook quite often. Part of me kind of wishes that I did a blog because I…

Tammy: With all the time you have.

Interviewee: Yes, with all that extra time that I have. So, I post things on Facebook and I, and some of my friends and relatives that are on there and it’s basically, basically is a diary for me.

Tammy: Yeah.

Interviewee: Because it pops up in the memories and but I tell, I share stories on there of things that have happened. There’s, every day, there is a news story. So, I have a couple of stories I’d like to share.

Tammy: Yeah.

Interviewee: One being we were having trouble with our toilet and so, it was plugged, and my husband was gone of course and things like that always happened when I’m home alone.

Tammy: Yes.

Interviewee: So, I sent my older kids to Walmart and I said go to Walmart and get a snake and ran back and that’s what I’ll use to unplug the stool and so, it was real clear then that I need, when you give kids instructions you need to be a little more clear about what that actually is. So, I get a text message from my daughter and she’s a classic, never a dull moment with her. She’s the one that thinks she’s going to drive overseas instead of fly, and she’s afraid to get carsick, but anyway, she texts me back and she says, “Mom, they don’t have any snakes here. They just have fishies.” 

Tammy: [laughter] 

Interviewee: So, that terrified me because if she really knew her mom she would know that I am terrified of snakes, and if they would have came home with a snake, I probably would have had a heart attack, but that was a classic.

Tammy: That’s wonderful

Interviewee: My other one just recently is we’re putting an island in our kitchen, we’re redoing our kitchen and we’re putting an island and so, one of our little ones was with me and I was in the cabinetry section you know at a Home Depot store and talking to him about cabinets and so forth. I was talking about the island and so, the little ones were asking the sales rep. “Will we have sand?” 

Tammy: [laughter] 

Interviewee: “We don’t want any sharks. Will we get to go swim in there?” and they’re kind of looking at the kids kind of puzzled like, “What?” Then finally you know, they finally figured it out. It was like, just humor them, they think I’m getting, I’m buying an island which, an island to me is much different than an island to a child.

Tammy: Absolutely.

Interviewee: Yeah. So, there’s no Beach, no sand, no shark.

Tammy: No sharks in your kitchen?

Interviewee: No sharks in my kitchen.

Tammy: All right.

Interviewee: I think there’s going to be a little disappointment.

Tammy: That’s wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing with us.

Interviewee: Yeah and thank you for inviting me and again, if i can, if I can get one message across to anybody that is listening to this, there are many children out there that are in need of assistance and we call ourselves, we’re the port in this, we are the port in the storm. And it’s not always a permanent time for that child, but it’s a time that… or a permanent placement for that child, but it’s a place that that child can go while things are in turmoil and in chaos. And if you are ever thinking about being a foster or an adoptive parent, really look into you’re capable of doing, and if you have space in your home and if you have love in your heart and you’re willing to dedicate to a child, I strongly encourage it because I have received more blessings from it… Sorry. 

Tammy: Don’t be sorry.

Interviewee: Being a foster parent I mean is such a powerful blessing and so, I really encourage anybody to consider it.

Tammy: Yeah. There’s a lot of love in your life.

Interviewee: Yup. I was blessed. I have been blessed.

Tammy: You’ve given a lot of love out. 

Interviewee: Yeah. So, I have a big heart.

Tammy: You do. You absolutely do and again. Thank you for what you’re doing because it helps all of us when our community’s children are helped, and I hope people out there hearing this and saying, “Yeah, that’s something I can do.” and you’re just a great example because you’re just supermom. That’s what I call you.

Interviewee: Well, thank you, thank you again for taking the time to have me be a part of this and again I just like to encourage everybody out there to consider it.

Tammy: Well, thanks again

Interviewee: Thank you

Voiceover: You have been listening to the Just Ask Mom series, part of the Mothers on the Frontline podcast, Copyrighted in 2018. Today’s podcast host was Tammy Nyden. The music is Old English, written, performed, and recorded by Flame Emoji. For more podcasts and this and other series relating to children’s mental health, go to mothersonthefrontline.com or subscribe to Mothers of the Frontline on iTunes, Android, Google Play, Stitcher, or Spotify. Mothers on the Frontline is a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization that uses storytelling for caregiver healing and children’s mental health advocacy. We strive to reduce stigma, educate the public and influence positive policy change through our podcast series and storytelling workshops. We are currently working with Grinnell College to document and archive stories of lived experience with the School to Prison Pipeline, an issue importantly connected to children’s mental health and well-being. If you would like to support our work, please visit our website and make a tax-deductible donation at mothersonthefrontline.com