440: In this interview, Gene Kim elaborates on each of the five ideals the book introduces, which are locality and simplicity, focus, flow, and joy, the improvement of daily work, psychological safety, and customer focus. For each one, he provides his definition, examples of it working and not working, and explains why it is important. We also discuss why the days of taylorism, project management, and people treating others as fungible and replaceable resources is coming to an end, why he writes his books as novels, among other topics.