This post was authored by Rosanne on Rosanne Austin.

What if just about everything we’ve been told about a “healthy” diet isn’t exactly true?

Join me for a VERY interesting conversation with neurosurgeon, former pro-rugby player, and unapologetic carnivore, Dr. Anthony Chaffee, MD. He is also doing an amazing 30-day carnivore challenge that you will want to check out.

Follow him on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anthonychaffeemd/ […]

The post EP196 Mind Blowing Truths About Diet and Fertility with Dr. Anthony Chaffee, MD appeared first on Rosanne Austin.

Transcript:

Hey Gorgeous, if you want success on your fertility journey, you’ve got to have the mindset for it. It’s time to kick fear, negativity, doubt, shame, jealousy, and the whole clown car of low vibe fertility journey BS to the curb. I’m your host, Roseanne Austin, fertility mindset master, former prosecutor and recovering type A control freak perfectionist.

I use the power of mindset to get pregnant naturally and have my baby boy at 43. Despite years of fertility treatment failure, I help women across the globe beat the odds on their fertility journey. Just like I did get ready for a quick hit of confidence, joy, feminine, badassery, and loads of hell. Yes.

For your fertility journey. It’s time to get fearless, baby, fearlessly fertile. Let’s do this. Welcome to the Fearlessly Fertile Podcast, episode 196. Mind blowing truths about diet and fertility with Dr. Anthony Chafee, MD. Hey my loves, I am super excited to be here with you this week on the heels of Thanksgiving so that we can have a very powerful conversation about diet.

And if you’ve been paying attention, Any attention to social media, news, different media outlets. Even if you’ve only had one eye open and one ear open, you’re beginning to realize that the narrative that we have been fed as consumers for generations about what healthy eating is, is fucking falling apart.

It’s embarrassing. When you see the food pyramid put out by the U. S. government somehow ranking a bowl of frosted flakes as being more nutritious than a piece of meat, you gotta scratch your head and wonder, what the fuck is going on? And we’re beginning to see so many of these narratives from the quote unquote experts just being exposed as total and complete garbage.

And this is a real opportunity for people to begin to take more license and agency and ask more critical thinking questions about what we have been told over the decades. I mean, I was a teenager and in going into college in the 90s, and that was back when, uh, they had cookies with like zero fat, like they were making fat the enemy.

While there was. Tablespoons and tablespoons, grams upon grams of sugar, and somehow that was healthier to have a shit ton of sugar than fat. I mean, like, just all of the, the corporate manipulation and the food companies, big pharma, all of this corporatocracy that we find ourselves in right now is beginning to fall apart as people wake up.

And begin to question all of these nonsensical narratives and go back to ancient ways of eating. Really beginning to look at, at the kind of food that gives sustainable energy and sustainable types of nutrition. And that’s why I was so excited at the opportunity to have Dr. Chafee on the podcast because not only is Dr.

Chafee a neurosurgeon, former pro rugby player, and unapologetic carnivore, Dr. Chafee is, is part of a growing group of medical professionals that are going against the narrative and really encouraging people to do their homework and really think about what healthy eating is in an entirely new way. So that not only can you empower your yourself when it comes to your nutrition.

But your overall health and Dr. Chafee has some really Specific ideas when it comes to fertility and the carnivore diet So while I don’t particularly espouse like a one size fits all approach to diet of any kind Even if you think that this carnivore movement is some kind of a fad, I mean, you might want to check yourself before you wreck yourself because this is the way human beings have been eating for a very long time.

And it’s only in recent times that we’ve been adding all kinds of chemicals and crazy shit that yeah, anyway, Dr. Chafee is going to get into all that. But I really encourage you just have an open heart and an open mind and see if any of this resonates with you. And I know that you’re going to use your own good judgment, whatever that may be.

To support your own health on this journey, but I think you’re going to be delighted by what Dr. Chafee has to say, and at the very least, it’s going to cause you to take a second look and say, Hey, maybe I might try this out. Maybe this could help me call in my baby. So here’s my conversation with Dr.

Anthony Chafee. Uh, yeah, well, you know, thank you for that. And, uh, yeah, my name is Dr. Anthony Chafee. I’m an American medical doctor. Specializing in neurosurgery. I took some, some time off from my residency to help with a family emergency. My parents were unwell. And so I took a bit of time off and during that time sort of did a lot of my own research into diet, nutrition, how it affects health and disease.

And also, uh, did humanitarian work in Bangladesh, working with the Rohingya refugees that were escaping genocide over from Burma. And now I’m just back in, back in neurosurgery completing, continuing on with that down in Australia, but continuing on with my whole passion project, I guess it was just diet and nutrition and how that affects health and chronic disease.

I first came, you know, across, you know, sort of a meat based carnivore sort of diet 22 years ago. You know, I was, I played professional sports really since I was 18, I was an all American rugby player and then played professional rugby for 10 years before medical school and did MMA before that. And so, so sports were always, you know, very big in my life and something I was very passionate about.

That’s why I always, you know, nutrition was very important to me too, because I wanted to be able to fuel my body. And give myself, you know, the best, best energy and best nutrients to go and perform. 22 years ago, I took cancer biology at the university of Washington in Seattle. And we learned day one that plants are living organisms and they like to stay living organisms.

And so if you eat them, they die. And if you, and so all living organisms have a defense against being eaten and being killed. You know, nature is wild. It’s kill or be killed for plants as well as animals, all the way down to single celled organisms. And so, while animals can run away or fight back, plants can’t.

They’re stationary, and so they have to have, they have to affect other means of defense. And one of those is, uh, by being, by using toxins and being physically poisonous. You know, most animals don’t need to do that. You know, some little frogs or insects or something like that. That are more defenseless against these big monsters that are out there, but larger animals generally don’t have to do that.

They can run away. They can scurry away and fight and hide and things like that. Plants can’t. So all of them will use poison to some degree or. I should say they all use poison, and they’re more or less poisonous to different animals based on their genetic heritage and what they’ve evolved to eat.

Something I learned in seventh grade biology was that, you know, plants and animals are in an evolutionary arms race. Plants becoming more and more poisonous. So less and less animals can eat them and animals becoming more and more adapted to specific poisons and specific plants so they can eat that plant and survive and thrive.

And so, you know, this is, this is their evolutionary niche and this is why koalas eat eucalyptus. Nothing else you can eat eucalyptus. So they have that dedicated food source, but they also don’t eat anything else. And they would get very, very sick or even die if they ate anything else. And the same is true of basically every other herb before as well.

They very, very specific confined diet. We go outside of that. We’re the only species that does that. And we’re also the only species that has all these horrific health issues that we are facing nowadays. And so in cancer biology, we were looking at that purely from a cancer perspective, and we were looking at all the different carcinogens that were in just regular vegetables that we would eat.

So 22 years ago, we already knew about how Brussels sprouts had 136 known human carcinogens in them and that mushrooms had over a hundred. Spinach, kale, lettuce, celery, cabbage, cucumber, broccoli, you name it, had 60, 80, over a hundred known human carcinogens in them, and they were quite abundant. We’ve known since the 1980s, 1989, Professor Bruce Ames from Berkeley published a paper showing that the naturally occurring poisons and carcinogens in plants outweighed The pesticides we sprayed on them by weight by a factor of 10, 000, right?

So 99. 99 percent of toxic elements existing in the plant, it’s not the pesticides and that the naturally occurring poisons were orders of magnitude times, more likely to cause cancer. Then the pesticides, this is why we still have pesticides. They were actually trying to ban them at the time. And he came out with this resource game, like, Hey, you know, I don’t think this is really the problem that we’re thinking it was, you know, because first of all, we’ve been using these same pesticides for like 80 years at that time.

And, you know, they hadn’t really been causing a problem now in the eighties. We’re saying, Hey, we’re having these health issues. This is new what’s going on. He’s saying, but these pesticides are old. So he looked at it and he found that no, if you’re going to eat the plants. The pesticides really aren’t your main concern.

We were very taken aback by that. We were very blown. I remember looking around, like looking for like a TA who was like laughing in the corner. Like, ah, he just always does this, you know? And like, but the, but everyone was wildly thrashing around looking around for who was in on the joke and no one was because it wasn’t a joke.

And it finally dawned on us. Like it just sank in and like, okay, he’s serious. And I remember thinking in my head, but, but vegetables are still good for you though. Right. And he just must have read our minds because he looked at us and he just said, I don’t need salad. I don’t need vegetables. I don’t let my kids eat vegetables.

Plants are trying to kill you. So I was like, right, screw plants. And I just stopped eating them completely after that. You know, I went to I went to the grocery store and I was just walking around. I was just like, okay, what can I eat? That’s not a plant. And it was, it was nothing like everything had plants in it, you know, at least as an ingredient or, or was just predominantly made out of plants.

And if you look at the standard American diet, it’s like 70 percent calories from, from plants, you know, it is already everybody in the world really at this point is, is eating a plant based diet. So it was like, well, you gotta go plant based. You gotta, but we are plant based. That’s the problem. And so, you know, because biologically humans are carnivores.

That’s the kind of animal that we are. So I didn’t know that at the time. I just knew let’s I’m not eating plants, you know, plants are toxic. And so I was just walking around. I come around. All of a sudden I’m like eggs. Okay. Oh, eggs. All right. Those don’t come from a plant. Like meat, meat doesn’t come from a plant, milk, milk doesn’t come from a plant.

So I ate eggs, meat and milk for five years and was performing better than I ever had in rugby and in school. My brain worked better. My body worked better. I couldn’t get tired. I couldn’t run out of energy. I couldn’t get sore. I don’t get sore anymore. You know, that soreness after workout. That actually is not from lactic acid.

That’s obvious. Everyone knows that, you know, that that’s gone within seconds. Really? That’s just your oxygen debt. You know, you get, you get sore from that burn of that initial workout. And then once that goes away, that’s gone. That doesn’t, that lactic acid is gone. Now it doesn’t come back just for asking.

That comes from the inflammation, inflammatory factors and toxins that are in plants that causes that pain, stiffness, and swelling as a way of deterring you saying, Hey, don’t eat me. I’m going to hurt you. I’m going to make you sick. Back off. And it’s the plant’s way of telling you to go away. And now I don’t even get that.

I have one cup of black coffee, I’m sure, for two days. Now is that about, you know, I mean, and everyone’s like, Oh, coffee is so good for you. Well, it’s plant is actually a seed, you know, beans are seeds and seeds are plants, babies, and everything protects us babies more than anything. And so the seeds are generally where you find a higher concentration of poison, unfortunately.

And this is why I’d say, Oh, almonds are so good for you. Like. They have cyanide and, uh, they actually have enough cyanide that like a pound or two of almonds a day, which is a lot of almonds. But I’ve, I’ve sat there and down half a pound of almonds just watching TV before one to two pounds of almonds, depending on how much cyanide is in each almonds, it varies is a lethal dose of cyanide in an adult.

You know, and so, and we just give this stuff to kids, which is wild to me, you know, that they were, they’re not only are we, are we not age restricting this, but we’re, we’re saying, Hey, get more of it in you. So about five years, I sort of slipped off of eating that, that way when I was playing professionally in England and there was this.

It wasn’t the same access to food. A lot of the meat was like breaded. And I was like, well, you know, this is just really convenient. I’m very busy. Like, is it, does it make that big of a difference? Is poison, is dose dependent? Like, and I, and I was able to talk myself into doing something stupid, which, you know, we’re all very capable of doing.

And I ended up sort of, sort of, And I definitely did notice a difference a couple months into it. I remember thinking to myself, like, why don’t I feel it’s just unbelievably amazing as I normally do, you know, am I not working out as hard? Am I just, I’m 25 now? Am I just over the hill? Is that it? I’m just dying now.

And I just say, I’m just going to get worse from here or, or what? I didn’t figure it out, but it was, it was because of that. And the main thing that did was it was. It just opened, it opened up the door to eating plants again. And I just, it’s a little bit more crept in, a little bit more crept in. And then sort of like five years ago, I got back into, I sort of recognize this again.

I said, okay, no, actually humans are carnivores. That’s the kind of animal that we are. And that’s why I felt so good because I was living as a carnivore. I was only eating meat and I was doing what we’re supposed to do. Just like there’s signs at the zoo that say, don’t feed the animals. They get sick if you give them the wrong things.

We, we’re animals and we get sick if we eat the wrong things. And I just said, right, I knew it. I knew plants were trying to kill me, like get rid of these stupid things. And I just started just eating, you know, just meet again. And I just, you know, I, I shredded down my body fat. I started stacking on muscle at 38 years old and now I’m 42 and I’m, you know, in great shape.

I barely work out and I look like I’m, you know, you know, trained for a decathlon, you know, and, and that’s just, that’s just. You know, just like, like, I think of it as like an animal in the zoo, right? Everyone talks about how like, oh, animals in the wild, they’re always ripped. And I always wonder like, why are we the only squishy animal on earth?

You know, like animals in the wild, they’re just, they’re just yolks, you know, they’re just big, muscular, strong creatures. And, and we’re not, and everyone says like, well, that’s because they’re out there running around. They’re always being active, like maybe, but that doesn’t explain animals in the zoo, you know, and I’ve never seen a fat giraffe.

Or a fat zebra or a fat lion, you know, they, they live in a box, the size of this room, you know, for their entire lives, you know, that’s the definition of a sedentary lifestyle. And yet they’re ripped. They look like they’re on steroids. They’re just jacked. You know, why is that? Well, because they’re eating what they’re supposed to eat and that’s what they look like.

So this is what, this is what a human in captivity looks like, you know? And if I’m working out, I get a lot bigger, a lot stronger, you know, a lot more muscular. And when I started looking at this at medicine through that lens, that humans are carnivores, they’re carnivores. That’s the kind of animal we are, and we are not living as such, you know, it’s like any, any, you know, zookeeper who’s worth anything can tell you, if you feed an animal, something that doesn’t eat in the wild, something that didn’t evolve on, it gets sick.

What does it get sick with? It’s obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, you know, liver disease, arthritis, autoimmune diseases, all the same things. That we get, you know, slight variations between species and things like that. But same idea you get, get multi organ dysfunction and the biochemical processes stopped working in the way they should.

And same thing with dogs and cats were known carnivores. And yet we give them planting grain based kibble. And in fact, there’s this whole plant movement is like, Oh, you have to feed them this and like, People are feeding their dogs like vegan food and things like that. And how do you think that that’s an okay thing to do?

You know, that’s biologically inappropriate. And, you know, we know that golden retrievers in America in the 1970s, when they were eating more sort of table scraps and not packaged dog food, they on average lived 17 years in America. Now it’s nine years. You know, and so that’s a big difference because all, well, you know, this is just from breeders, just hyperbreeding.

And that’s, that’s certainly what people say, but just because people say it doesn’t mean it’s true. As far as I know, golden retriever is a pure breed. Last I heard that’s already inbred to, uh, to a very high degree. And so it was a pure breed in the 1970s. It’s a pure breed. Now. Why is it half. Half. The life spanning expectancy is that purely genetic?

I don’t think so. You know, genes take a lot longer to change. We have anyone who took population genetics will understand that like you just cannot change an entire population like that. And, and, and without, without like a, like a mass extinction or genocide. And so that doesn’t, that doesn’t really make any sense.

So I’ve started approaching medicine from that standpoint. I started treating my patients in a more biologically physiologically appropriate way, even in neurosurgery. And I have a practice in functional medicine outside of neurosurgery where we’re just, we’re, we’re getting people better. Without medication.

And in fact, that’s the definition of being better is you come off medication. And so that’s what we aim to do. And that’s actually what we’re accomplishing, which is fantastic. That’s incredible. Dr. JV I’m like picking my jaw up off the ground because I mean, just hearing about what is naturally occurring in plants being carcinogenic.

Like, I mean, that’s just extraordinary to me. And it’s interesting because. I mean, I was a prosecutor for 10 years in California. I’d be like, your honor, the people rest after hearing everything that I’m like, we, you know, we don’t have any more evidence to show because case is closed. But what’s interesting is we have been educated for decades.

On this food pyramid that is encouraging us to eat a ridiculous amount of carbohydrate, most of which I mean, it’s all coming from plants and recently there was something I saw on Instagram where the U. S. government had put out some food guidelines that placed frosted flakes above butter and meat. Yeah.

And I remember thinking to myself, am I having a stroke? Like is this real? Like, is this the meme? Like is this the joke? Yep. We’re getting punked. They’re like, Ashton Kutcher is going to come out of the corner like, ah, I got you. Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m thinking to myself, something is really wrong here. And I mean, do you find that when you’re sharing this information with people initially that they are as a gas?

I mean, when we watched this video, there’s probably five minutes straight where my mouth is open because it’s just like insane. Like, why are we not hearing this? Because the first thing you would think of is all the glyphosate, all of the pesticides, the pesticides are the enemy. But what you’re sharing here is no, it starts way before then.

Yeah. Well, look, I mean, you know, uh, all of those pesticides, I mean, they’re, they’re used for a reason, right? Because they, they kill things, you know, they’re not good for you. Right. So that’s what we put them on. We put them on plants because. Like I said, you know, everything has its evolutionary niche. And so there are certain insects that can eat certain plants, but they can’t eat other plants.

Those plants will kill them, right? So they don’t need those. They eat these other things. And so you need to, so, so you can have a lot of bugs that can eat your crop because they’re protected against the poisons that are in that crop. So you have to put more poisons on, you have to make them more poisonous.

So even less things can eat them. And that’s what GMOs are as well. You’re taking the, you know, the gene. That make some other poison out of, you know, this plant and you put it in this plant to get that cross cover. So if like, you know, like, you know, like locusts or something like that, you know, can’t eat this plant, but they can eat your crop.

Then you take out the things that killed the locusts from this other crop and you put it in your crop. And now the locusts can’t eat your crop. And, you know, you get higher crop yields as well because you’re not, you’re not, they’re not getting eaten by bugs. And people say like, oh my gosh, you know, they’re becoming more poisonous.

Like, yeah, that’s the entire point. You know, is, is to make it more poisonous so that less things can eat them. Like, what did you think we were doing here? We’re just asking them nicely to not eat our crops. Like they’re, you know, they’re bugs. They’re going to eat something. They want to eat something. And so you, you have to make it poisonous.

That’s what pesticides are. That’s what GMOs are, but that’s what the plant is doing. You know, so, so this is, this is a very well recognized fact. That plants use poison to stop animals and insects from eating them as has evidence by the fact that we’re taking some of those poisons from other crops and putting them in this crop so that they’re all protected, right?

So what does that mean? You know, I mean, these things are using poisons. I mean, this is this is. Wow. There’s a hard, hard science called botany that it’s one of the hard sciences that we’ve had for thousands of years that we have studied this, this is a well documented fact. You know, there are, I mean, there’s just tens of thousands of different poisons.

The WHO as, as plant based pushing agendas, they, they have, they have a whole article that I can send you the link. Talking about natural poisons in foods and how you have to be very careful and not eat certain things under certain conditions or at all ever, you know, cassava root. This is the third most important calorie source in the third world, and yet if you don’t treat it and process it properly.

It will kill you. It has so much cyanide, it will kill you, right? And so you have to treat it and, and prepare it in a way that, that sort of dampens down the amount of available cyanide, but even, even sort of low grade cyanide exposure over time will lead to organ dysfunction, so thyroid dysfunction and give neurological damage.

So this isn’t good. This is a temporizing measure. I mean, historically. People only ate plants if they had to, because they couldn’t afford to get meat, they didn’t have access to meat. So they would, they would eat plants and they would figure out ways of doing things. It was really the, the poor that were doing this, the rich always had access to meat and, and that’s what they ate.

And that’s why they were more healthy up until the last hundred years, the wealthy lived far longer and far better health than, than the lower classes did. Now it’s about the same, actually, you know, because everyone’s eating crap, but before. You know, it was the wealthy people that could afford meat and could afford fatty foods because everyone knew up until about 1977 when the USDA declared that cholesterol caused heart disease, which it absolutely does not.

That was, that’s absolutely false. We have hard evidence of that. We have hard evidence that that report. Was bought and paid for by the sugar companies that was fraud. You want to look it up as a journal, the American medical association published in 2015 reports from the UCSF medical school, uh, published actual internal memos from the sugar companies in the sixties, detailing how they paid off three Harvard professors to falsify data and publish fraudulent studies to make it appear as if cholesterol was causing heart disease when it was really sugar and to exonerate sugar and say that it was safe.

And then one of those professors was named head of the USDA and it was he who authored and published that 1977 declaration. We have his contract. We know what he got paid 6, 500. It’s the equivalent of 50 grand. Now that’s what his soul was worth. And so that is not bad for you. And everyone knew that up until that declaration.

And even, even for decades before that, this was a hotly debated topic. The sugar company is pushing out like, you know, that’s really bad for you. And Angel Keys, same guy, same guy was, was. We know that he was paid off as well. He falsified a lot of his data. And he said like, well, you know, I mean, you know, it may be wrong.

You know, cholesterol may not be bad for you, but you know, well, and what’s the big deal is you get rid of it. It’s not going to cause any harm, you know? And so, and, and it might be averting this whole big, horrible thing. So why don’t you just do that? And the sugar company said, well, I mean, most people get their calories from fat.

And so you want to get rid of those calories. You have to replace them with something. So why don’t we just do that with, with, you know, you know, pure, you know, uh, sugar, just this, this empty calorie. It’s just, it’s just pure calories. It’s just, you know, and that’s where they say the empty calorie. Well, it’s just an empty calorie.

It’s really not provide that’s. Pretending to be self deprecating, but really it’s, it’s saying it’s a lot safer than it is because sugar is harmful. It causes harm to your body. Fructose is, is processed and broken down into the same byproducts as alcohol. So it causes the same damage to your body as alcohol, fatty liver disease, cirrhosis, diabetes, heart disease, even implicating cancer and Alzheimer’s.

Okay. This is bad and it’s addictive in the same way as cocaine, heroin, and methamphetamines, we actually have MRI studies looking at the brains of meth addicts and sugar addicts, and it kills sugar kills the same areas of the brain as meth to the same extent as meth. And it damages your body like alcohol.

This is a drug. This is a, a toxic, toxic substance that we just give to kids, which is crazy to me. Oh, but they like it. Yeah. They’d like cocaine too. Don’t give it to them. You know? And so, yeah. And so, you know, people knew this, this was just in the 20th century and the latter half of the 20th century. This even became a topic for debate before that everyone was eating fat if they could get it.

That’s what it’s called. Rich food. Oh, well, it’s very rich. That used to be a positive, now it’s pejorative. They’re like, Oh, that’s kind of rich. Oh, I don’t know. It’s rich food. Before it was just like, Oh my God, that’s very rich food. Because the rich were the ones getting it. And the rich were the ones that were living longer with better health.

You know, Dr. Chavey, this is incredible because I think, like, especially when you think about the past couple of years, there’s so much that’s coming out about what we don’t know. And so many of the authorities. We had looked to in the past for guidance, have been giving us a shred of what you know. Mm-Hmm.

consumers and people that are health advocates, or at least think their health advocates should know. I mean, it, it’s crazy ’cause like, so the women listening to this, like one of the first moves they make when they start struggling with their fertility, the first place they look at is diet. They, you know, and, and I did it too when I was struggling.

You know, the first thing we think, okay, I’ve got to clean up my diet. And then we start making massive kale salads. We eat, you know, drinking green drinks and, and doing all this stuff. But what we’re doing is based on what you’re sharing in the hard science is creating inflammation. We’re doing things that are introducing poisons into our body.

This is mind blowing. Yeah. And I mean, think about that too. I mean, you think about those green drinks. You know, if, if you just, if you just had, you know, like, you know, broccoli and spinach and kale and things like that without adding any fruit or, or sweetener to it, what does that taste like? Have you ever tried that garbage?

It does taste like garbage. It is horrible. It’s noxious, right? And you blow like crazy. I mean, it’s like, it’s hard to choke that down. It is. And, uh, and that’s, there’s a reason for that. Your, your body is telling you do not eat this. This is poison. Spit it out. You know, I mean, you know, you know, deer don’t go around eating the, you know, the gross tasting leaves.

You know, they don’t have a, a, a health coach going around like, you know, it’s like, I know it tastes like shit, but it’ll look right on your ass. You know, like, you know, they, they eat what tastes good, you know? And so they’re eating something’s bitter. It’s like, ugh, no, don’t wanna do that. Our taste is one of our, our five major senses, right?

And we just say, ignore it. You know, completely just don’t worry about it. It’s bitter. It’s horrible. It’s awful. And you just go like, Oh, that means it’s good for you. Why, why would that be good for you? You know, maybe you can have an outlier like sugar that tastes good. They give that sweet flavor and that that’s a positive.

But it’s not actually a positive. It can be a positive in certain circumstances. We recognize fructose as, as very sweet because there aren’t any plants that contain fructose that are acutely poisonous for humans will kill you that day. And so we recognize that as a, as a safe hit, quick hit of energy so we can survive.

And so that can give us survival advantage, but you know, it gives short and long term problems. You know, it can derail your metabolism. Put you into a fat storage metabolism as opposed to a fat burning metabolism. And long term, it will, will cause these same ramifications that we see from the processing of sugar or sorry, of alcohol.

And so that, that will cause a problem, but it can confer a survival advantage. If you’re looking around going like, I can’t like, like a lion that runs out, they can’t eat any plants. Like, like everything will kill a feline. Like they, there’s really insensitive to plant toxins. So they run out of meat, they die.

We can get some things. We’re a robust species, so we can survive on other things. And that’s, that can certainly give us a survival advantage in certain times. But we’re not trying to survive right. We have an abundance of food. And so now that’s, that’s a bit of a detriment because because it doesn’t give such a stark reaction like it would to a cat, or even a dog.

That we’re just like, oh, this isn’t that bad. It is, and it adds up. And so You know, that bitter taste is, is a very, very strong indicator that there’s something wrong, you know, that sweet sugar, that’s a, that’s an outlier because, you know, that, that does give some sort of advantage in certain circumstances, but not for optimal health, uh, long term.

So yeah, anything that you would give to, you know, a one year old. And they would spit out, you should spit out is, is my good rule of thumb. You know, they get the broccoli and they go, you look at these videos on YouTube of these kids, just like, you know, of getting just tortured with vegetables. And they’re just like, oh my God, no.

And you know, I was that kid. I was absolutely that kid. And, and I remember it being physically distressing to eat this stuff. It’s everything in my being. was telling me, do not eat this. You’re eating poison. Wow. Wow. So I mean, from, and since you practice functional medicine, I mean, you’re helping people from many different perspectives and you’re, you know, you’re looking at the whole human being.

So if the woman came to you and said, Dr. Chafee, I’m struggling to conceive, you know, what are some of the things you know, that you would have her start to educate herself about, I know this is not medical advice in this forum, but you know, what are some of the things that you would take into account, particularly when it comes to diet, since that typically is the first thing that, you know, women jump to because it’s the one thing that we can control immediately.

Well, you know, and, and you do have a lot of control and that’s a, that’s a thing too. And in our health, people don’t realize just how much control that they do have. And I hate it when other doctors say to patients, like cancer patients, for instance, I’ve, I’ve been very upset by a few things that they’ve said.

To my patients about how they said, like, well, you know, I’ve asked him, I was like, is there anything I can do? Is anything I can eat different? It doesn’t matter. Just do whatever you want. It doesn’t matter anymore. It’s just, it’s such a defeatist idea that you have no control over your life. Cancer is either going to kill you or it’s not, it’s not up to you.

It’s up to us. We’re going to give you chemo. We’re going to give you radiation. And that’s, I think it’s either going to be a killer cure. So, and, and I’m sure they were trying to mean it in like a positive way. Like, look, you know, don’t worry about it. Don’t stress, just enjoy yourself, have some cake, have a drink, have a whatever, you know, because you need to enjoy your life, you know, because you’re, you’re in a pretty rough time and you may not survive.

And that’s what they’re saying. But I think it’s garbage because you do have a say. And if you do those things, You will have a worse outcome, you know, and so you, it’s more important to understand that you do have a serious, serious control over your, your life and your health outcomes. And because, and that’s when you really need to start taking advantage of that.

As far as fertility is concerned, what I would talk to people about is really just educating them on these hormonal biochemical processes. You know, there are a number of different reasons why people don’t conceive. But a lot of them come down to our hormones and how this, this affects our body and our processes.

Like, you know, for men, there are a lot of things that can reduce sperm count and sperm motility and the health of our sperm. And a lot of those come from plants and, uh, you know, vegans have much lower sperm count and they have much lower percentages of healthy sperm as well. So what they’re eating and what they’re not eating.

It’s going to affect that cholesterol cholesterol has been vilified. Like I said, cholesterol is a very, very, very important molecule. First of all, we’re made out of cholesterol. Every single cell in our body, the cell membrane is cholesterol. Our brains are made out of cholesterol. Almost all of our hormones are made out of cholesterol.

So, you know, you may, you have cholesterol and the end end result is testosterone and estrogen, but there’s like 27 steps in between. All of those things are hormones. All of those things are bioactive. All of them are made out of cholesterol, you know, testosterone, estrogens, progesterones, mineralocorticoids, glucocorticoids, everything made from your adrenals above your kidneys, like cortisol.

That really fundamentally regulate your body. All of these hormones are made from cholesterol, so you need to get your cholesterol right, you know, and we’ve actually found that people with lower levels of cholesterol have high rates of depression, higher rates of suicide, you know, a worse testosterone and estrogen levels.

So that’s very important, you know, when I just putting people on a carnivore diet or just getting their, their fat intake up and their cholesterol intake up, I see men in their fifties and sixties increasing their testosterone by 30, 40 percent in three months. Just with those dietary changes. And then, then they’re, they’re older gentlemen and all of a sudden they’re just feeling one guy like doubled his testosterone, his testosterone levels were like high for a 26 year old.

And he’s just like, I feel like I’m a teenager again. And then he’s like, dude, you are, you know, and, uh, and he, he just felt great guy was 65, you know, and, uh, and he’s just, just. Just teeming with life specifically for women and specifically for their, for fertility, obviously that’s going to play a major, major role, just, just getting the substrate necessary to make the hormones.

Right. And then, and then you can disrupt your hormones. You can absolutely destroy those. You know, the, there are so many hormone disruptors. That’s one of the classifications of, uh, plant toxin or hormone disruptors that will change the way your body processes hormones or, or, or. Or have like phytoestrogens and things like that, that, that mimic estrogen or mimic testosterone and screw things up.

There’s like a, I think it’s a Toro route, the Pacific islands, and this has like a, a phyto testosterone, right? So you’re, you’re giving, and that’s one of their staple meals, right? Is, is, is that, and so. Fine for a growing boy, you know, going through puberty and getting, you know, uh, having, having excess sort of testosterone not doing so well for the women that are now having, you know, uh, you know, these phyto testosterone scoring with their system, tons of phytoestrogens, you know, people talk about the estrogen and hormones in meat.

But they don’t actually tell you what you’re going to replace that with the hormone content in plants is far higher. You know, they say that, well, you know, hormone treated meat has double the amount of, of hormones as untreated meat. And it’s just like, yeah, that’s true. And a double sounds scary. Double twice as much.

You have to put it in context because we’re talking an increase from two nanograms per three ounces of lean meat to 3. 9 nanograms. Of estrogen, right? That’s nearly double technically correct. The context is that a fertile woman makes between 150 and 180, 000 nanograms of estrogen in a day. The birth control average birth control pill will have about 35, 000 nanograms of estrogen in it.

Three ounces of soy over a million. So this is really going to mess with your system. Yes. Estrogen is good. Is it important? It is important to be in balance, right? So it needs to be in balance with your other hormones like progesterone in order to be fertile and to stimulate a follicle and have that follicle be viable and implant, um, in your womb.

All of these things are very important. They’re very, very, very, you know, finally. Controlled gradients between all these things. And that, that makes our body work. Our body is a very, very, very complex, you know, we’ve got billions and trillions of cells and there are millions of biochemical interactions happening every second in every cell.

You know, this system is way too complex. To think, to think that we can micromanage it, like, I’m sorry, you’re just never, you’re never going to do that. Like you screw with that system at your own peril. And this is what we’re seeing. And sometimes we can fix some of the damage and, and, and fix some of the macro hormonal issues and give someone progesterone or, or estrogen in certain amounts to, to, to simulate normal biological functions.

But that’s, that’s just, you know, window dressing. You know, there’s so many other things going wrong that, that led to this dysregulation of your progesterone and estrogen in the first place. Another one is, is simply insulin. You know, everyone needs carbohydrates now. That’s just, that’s just a staple of our diet in every country.

And we’re told, like you say, from, from the food pyramid, carbs, carbs, carbs, carbs, carbs. Well, the problem with that is that those were lobbyists driven. You know, you had a lot of, you had a lot of financial interests that were, that were influencing the guidelines because guidelines are made by bureaucrats are not made by scientists, scientists can say like, Hey, this is what we think.

And then bureaucrats go behind closed doors and then they make decisions and they are wildly different from the recommendation. Maybe there’s some of those recommendations in there. They’re never, you know, on that line though. And so you have, you have different, different influences. And one of those is you have, you know, the grain lobbies and, you know, Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola and Nestle saying, Hey.

You need to, you need to say this stuff is good. And so they do because, you know, they’re, they’re shills and, um, and everyone knows that that’s, that’s, that’s why no one respects politicians. They shouldn’t know. I mean, we were seeing today, I mean, it’s like. You don’t have to look too far to see that. No, exactly.

Well, and it’s interesting too, because another thing that comes up a lot for women that are struggling with fertility or issues with their thyroid, and I had a long time ago about stay away from cruciferous vegetables, you know, because they can interfere with thyroid function. And then. But they don’t talk about all the other things and they also don’t explain that, but we’re getting quite an education here.

And well, at least they’re, at least they’re saying, say away from cruciferous vegetables. That’s amazing. Like I’ve never, I’ve never actually heard a doctor say that, you know? So heard it once. I heard it once. And so I, but there was no explanation. I was just like. Okay. You know, but it also presumes, I mean, even though, you know, you’re educated on this, like I stumbled upon this, that, you know, some people don’t even know what cruciferous is.

And so it kind of, you know, and so there’s a lot of people bumbling around out there thinking it’s green. It’s good. Right. Yeah. Well, even more so, you know, Dr. Gundry, who wrote a book called the plant paradox, basically saying, Hey, there’s, there are poisons in here. And he called it a paradox because wow, these things are so healthy.

It’s so good for you. But at the same time, they’re deadly poisonous and don’t eat them. But at the same time, you should eat them like he’s, I don’t know, he’s got some conflicts, you know, somewhere in there because, you know, because he wrote it, he literally wrote the book on how toxic plants and vegetables are, but at the same time, he promotes a plant based diet.

So I don’t know how you square that circle, but You know, and, and I heard him say one thing, it was like a commercial or something silly like that. And it was all sort of campy. And like, this person was like, dr. Gundry, you know, what should I have? It’s like, spin it. What’s better spinach or kale. And he looks at camera goals, the more bitter, the more better, like it was all this so hacking, but like, it was like, what in God’s name would lead you to believe that the worst it tastes, the better and more biologically appropriate it is, and I haven’t done nothing against.

Dr. Gundry. I’ve never met him. I love that he wrote that book about how toxic plants were. I just wish that he would sort of make that next logical step in this line of thinking, which is don’t eat plants. And, and, and dear God, more bitter equals less better, you know, and more bitter equals more poison.

And, um, we have, we have a number of patients with Thyroid issues and then Hashimoto Hashimoto’s thyroiditis is, uh, you know, when your body is sort of an autoimmune issue where your body creates antibodies and those antibodies, you know, damage certain parts of the, of the, of the thyroid and, and leads to dysfunction.

You’d be surprised Hashimoto’s is, is, is, uh, very underreported just because don’t want to test for it. Uh, we test for it, you know, and we find it a lot as we find these, these, uh, antibodies. Quite a lot, putting people on a, on a carnivore diet. So eliminating out, you know, all the different sort of, you know, plant toxins and chemicals, and, and certainly, uh, carbohydrates as well reduces the burden, the body of antibodies reduces the damage and the functionality of the thyroid starts to return.

It takes a long, long time. A lot of, a lot of autoimmune issues actually respond very, very, very well. To a carnivore diet, and there’s a number of reasons for that a, you’re getting your body, you know, the nutrients it needs, but when you’re eating things that you shouldn’t, you get leaky gut, you get damaged, you’ve got lining and things get into your body that shouldn’t be there.

And your body has barrier protection to keep this stuff out and that, that lining is that that barrier defense is damaged. And then these things can get through, get through the walls. And then you got, you know, barbarians through the gates of Rome and so on, there’s all hell breaks loose. And so, you know, your body mounts a defense against those things, creates antibodies to different lectins, especially, you know, country wrote a whole book about it, about how bad lectins are.

So your body will start attacking these lectins, which you normally wouldn’t absorb if you hadn’t damaged your gut lining through eating, you know, things like gluten is a, is a major, major culprit in damaging the gut lining and causing leaky gut. And. You make these antibodies towards lectins and just think called molecular mimicry, where it’s similar enough to a part of your body that those antibodies can actually work on them and bind on them and send that signal, say, Hey, kill it is one of those stupid lectins.

And so that’s what, that’s what autoimmunity is in a lot of these cases. And so it’s not, and the thought was that you get primed and then your body keeps, and then, and then this. Molecular mimicry, you, you hit your own cells, but then because it starts binding on those, your own cells, then your body starts to become more sensitive to those and it starts making antibodies specifically for them.

That doesn’t seem to be actually what happens because when you remove the lectures, when you remove the plants from your diet completely, your body stops making those antibodies. And there’s no spill, they’re not in your system to then attack your body. So it looks like it’s a spillover effect. Looks like your body’s making this for something else.

And they just, they’re just in the system and your, and your thyroid is collateral damage. But when you get rid of the lectins and whatever else, your body stops making as many antibodies since it goes down. So it takes a while, but we see with Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis, people going on a pure carnivore diet, eliminating out all of these.

Different, you know, plant toxins, they get resolution and symptoms within a couple of weeks. And then in a few months. They have complete resolution of any inflammation or any sign of disease on biopsy within three months. I have yet to see someone go carnivore and take longer than three months to resolve Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis on biopsy if they go pure.

And, and we see this for a lot of other autoimmune rheumatoid arthritis. This is not new, by the way, this is all in the literature. This is all in the scientific literature. It’s also been completely overshadowed by, you know, people’s thought that, that. Fat and cholesterol were bad, therefore meat’s bad.

And so we said, well, you have to eat plants, obviously, if you can’t eat meat. But, you know, people were actually curing rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn’s, ulcerative colitis, gout, uh, all these things in the 1800s by putting people on a pure red meat and water diet. And we were doing that for a hundred years.

And, you know, as recently as 1977, there was a book by Dr. can’t spell his name. It’s confusing, sort of a spelling, but like. You know, he was a gastroenterologist and he wrote a book called the Stone Age diet, and which can be found on PDF for free on the internet. And he basically argued that humans are carnivores.

Here’s the evidence for the same. And that if these diseases that he’s treating, they just go away. If you just eat a biologically appropriate diet. And so, you know, he basically argued if, you know, his profession as a gastroenterologist didn’t need to exist, if you don’t eat plants. And then two years later, the USDA said, Oh, never eat meat again.

Everyone just went, forget it. And just throughout a hundred years of medical literature and knowledge. Even more recently, we’ve had studies looking at like a ketogenic diet, which is called a fasting mimicking diet. I think to probably get it under the radar because they say, well, fasting is really good, but fasting is hard.

So what about a diet that mimics the biochemical, the biochemistry that we would be in and fast, which I think is actually our primary metabolic state. I don’t think that’s, that’s a, that’s a fasting state at all. It’s just, it’s only when you eat carbohydrates that it goes away from that. So you’re not fasting.

I mean, I eat, you know, three, four pounds of ribeye a day. I am not fasting, you know, so I’m not, that’s not a fast. And I’m going to make mental note of that three to four pounds of ribeye a day. Oh my gosh. And, and I live in Texas, so we have amazing Wagyu. We, ever since we moved here, I’m like amazing Wagyu ribeyes.

Okay. Well, so talk to us a little bit about, okay, so these women listening are going to be like, okay, carnivore. All right. I’m ready to try this. And we’re so used to diets being complex, having to weigh things out, having to, you know, do a cartwheel and spin three times before we can get it right. Like, can it be as simple as meat and water?

Yeah. Well, yeah. And the more simple, you know, the better. Because you want to keep it simple. It should be simple. You know, nature is natural. It just happens on its own. So, you know, that’s why, you know, a deer don’t need you to tell them what to eat. They just, they just, they know what to eat. And, you know, a kid putting, you know, broccoli in his mouth hates it.

And putting bacon in his mouth, eyes light up. Same with sugar. And that’s why we put sugar to cover up the horrible taste of like these vegetable slurries that we give them as baby food. Dr. Chafee, bacon is a very good thing. Um, it is a great thing, you know, I, I, I want to make a shirt or something like that.

I come out with a shirt just as body by bacon and just wear that around and you know, but yeah, no, it is, it is exactly that simple. You really just, just eat meat, drink water, be happy. Like that’s it. Salt to taste. If you want, you know, you can have some dairy sometimes, but I would avoid anything with lactose because that has enough.

You know, carbohydrates in it to raise your blood sugar and raise your insulin, which is going to disrupt your metabolism. And, uh, and, and actually just to go back to the fertility thing for a second, that raised insulin actually is a problem for fertility because women don’t make estrogen directly. Like I said, there’s like 27 intermediaries, intermediary steps.

And one of those is testosterone. So women will actually make testosterone first. And then that testosterone is converted into estrogen in the ovaries. But high insulin levels will actually block that process. So you’ll block the conversion. So you’ll actually have too much testosterone, not enough estrogen.

Okay. And obviously that’s going to be a problem when you’re trying to concede PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome. That’s actually, there’s different causes of it. One of the major drivers of that is simple hyperinsulinemia, high insulin levels that. Block that conversion into testosterone and estrogen, and you can actually develop PCOS.

And that is, that is the number one cause of infertility in women. So just a very simple change in your, in your dietary habits of just not eating carbs, not eating sugar, limiting alcohol to, I don’t know, once or twice a year, never, if you can. And that will optimize things. And then obviously eating more meat, eating more saturated fat and cholesterol.

So your body has more of the substrate to make that hormones that your body wants in the first place and everything else is going to go well as well. So it all, it all plays into that. We’re just eating the correct thing, not eating anything else. People think, Oh, that’s very monotonous. What animal in the wild has, it has a, you know, an outrageously varied diet.

They eat one thing. I’ve never seen a cow get sick of grass. I’ve never seen a line like, you know, gazelle again, can we not have like a fresh garden salad or something, you know, a carrot ever heard of carrots, you know, like why gazelle every day it’s gazelle, they love gazelle. And they get that positive feedback from taste because those are the nutrients that their body requires.

And so they get, they get enjoyment out of that. They get a positive feedback from their brain. We get this too. When I started eating 99 percent of what I eat. It’s steaks, beef. That’s it. You know, sometimes I’ll dabble in something else. Mostly what I do is take, I have never sat down, started eating segment.

If I do, I don’t eat. That means I’m not hungry because I’m not getting that positive feedback. Meat has all the nutrients that you need in the proportion that you need them. So if you just eat that, you’ll be fine. If you’re, if it’s fatty enough. And so when I eating that, I’m getting positive like this is what your body wants.

And that’s why kids eyes will light up when it puts bacon into its mouth, because your brain is saying, Oh my God, this is what you’re, this is what it’s about. And so you’re getting a positive feedback and you’re getting this positive, positive, positive response so that it encourages you to keep doing it.

And then you get to a point where it actually doesn’t taste that good. It’s okay. But then you get to a point where like, not really feeling it, you naturally want to stop. And that’s because you’re getting less and less of a positive feedback. And then you can actually force yourself because I have patients that, you know, come to this because they’re trying to lose weight and they say, you know, you know, I hate doing this.

I have to force feed myself. It takes two hours to finish breakfast and it’s, and I say this to them, okay, did it taste bad at first? And I said, well, no, you know, it tasted really good at first, but I got halfway through. My meal and it, and it started tasting bad and I had to, I had to force myself. I was like, okay, well, that’s your body telling you to stop.

You know, it’s natural portion control. Your body will match. You don’t have to count calories. You don’t have to count macros. You know, you don’t need to, you know, if you need a calculator to figure out what to eat. You’re eating the wrong thing, you know, I’ve never seen a koala bust out like, okay, well, how many grams, you know, like you just don’t, you just eat, you know, you should, and nature is natural just happens all of a sudden.

And so, you know, you should, if you’re eating the right thing that will happen with you as well. So it is exactly that simple and you should keep it that simple. I think it’s as important on what not to eat. As, as what to eat, you know, you’re eating the meat, you’re getting this nutrition. That’s what your body needs.

That’s great. But these other things will cause harm. And so you want to, the trick is not eating all that other stuff. So my hard rule is no plants, no sugar, nothing artificial. And that goes for sauces, seasonings, and drinks as well. Okay. So anytime you, you have something, well, what about this? Just put it up against that.

Okay. Well, what about pepper? It’s a plant. Okay. Well, what about honey? It’s sugar. Well, honey comes from bees. It’s sugar. You know, it’s also bee vomit, you know, so that’s not really a bee, you know? And, you know, just like, you know, we wouldn’t eat, we like eating cow, but I’m not sure I’m gonna like eating cud.

You know, that came from a cow. It puked up what it was eating and chewed it up more and ate it later. I mean, that’s what a bees doing, you know, I’m not going to eat that. Thank you. But no, thank you. And so, you know, and then artificial, so what about stevia or these artificial sweeteners? Those aren’t carbs.

You don’t have carbs. Those are free, right? Absolutely not. You know, first of all, I give a sweet response. I hit your limbic system. You go carbs, sugar, and you, and you go down that addiction pathway again. And, uh, also it can trigger insulin as well because you get that sweet taste and your brain goes, Oh, there’s, there’s sugar coming.

We’re going to get insulin ready. You know? So you can still, you can still disrupt your system with these. And also they’re chemicals. You know, we think of things as calories or no calories. That’s it. You know, these are complex. Organic molecules that have complex chemical process, you know, interactions in our body.

So whether or not it has a calorie, that’s not all it is, you know, and we break down, you know, that reductionism and breaking down to, you know, protein, carbs and fat as just calories. And that’s, that’s the only thing that matters in them is, is, is a bit insane. These are, these are very, very different molecules.

Even within proteins, within fats, within carbohydrates, there are very different molecules that do very different things in your body. So it’s a lot more than just calories. So there’s a lot of complexity here and there’s, and you people could deep dive in and find out just as much as they want to, uh, or as little as they want to, but it really just comes down to eating a species specific diet.

And for humans, all the best evidence shows that that is a just meat. So yeah. So just eat fatty meat. until you’re full and listen to your body and drink water to thirst and avoid all the other stuff. And that’s it. I think that’s glorious. Dr. Chaffee, because I think what it’s also really about is pleasure and intuition, because if when somebody sinks their teeth into an incredible fatty ribeye, it’s just.

Pleasure and you get to trust yourself and your body that when you’re full, you’re full. We don’t have to look beyond our own bodies telling us when to stop. And it just, it feels great. I mean, having been on my own carnivore journey, like I have definitely noticed a significant difference. And energy and stamina and mental acuity and all kinds of really cool things.

So it’s, it’s been such a pleasure having you here and, and giving us even more information about this. So why don’t you tell the ladies listening, like how do, how do the women find out more about you, your work, your practice and all that good stuff? Well, thank you very much for having me. It’s been an absolute pleasure and hopefully, and I’m excited for you and getting on carnivore, you know, it’s, it’s great that you’ve been having these good results, but you’ll keep getting more and more and more.

So just be excited for that, that, you know, the longer you go, the better you’ll feel and, uh, and the better results you’ll have, which is awesome because, you know, I’ve been doing this for, for years and years and years. And I, I, I still absolutely love it. So what people can find me on my main thing is I have a YouTube channel just called Anthony Chafee MD.

That’s my channel. And I have a lot of videos and I try to publish sort of two to three a week, different interviews, you know, similar to this, where I bring people on that I think add to the discussion, add to the story and add to the, the knowledge base. And then just to show people what the information is out there.

And I do a lot of videos. On my own, just talking about the science and the research behind this, go through the studies. I try to put a lot of the studies that I talk about in, in the descriptions of the, you know, the shows as well. So people can go there and check my work, see if I’m, you know, got it right or not.

And, and so people can find me there and I have a podcast called the plant free MD. And because just going back to, you know, my, you know, my original, you know, coming to this and just, you know, avoiding plants specifically, which I think is very important to think about. And so that’s where all the, sort of the audio versions of, of all that will be.

And so people can, can listen to that on whatever. Podcast, uh, platform they want. And then I have Instagram where I post, post reels and posts and, you know, further down I had, I was doing sort of like daily sort of blog posts where I would talk about different things about diet and nutrition, health and fitness.

And, uh, I’ve sort of haven’t had time to do that as much, but they’re, they’re down there at the bottom. If you will look. Yeah. Oh, your recipe for carnivore pizza. Amazing. My family, we’re all going to try that this weekend. I thought, Oh my gosh, this is going to be awesome. I thought that was great watching that reel that you did about all meat pizza.

I was like, how did he do the press? And then when I saw that, I’m like, I’m all over that. It’s it, it turns out well, you know, um, it’s, it’s not my recipe. It’s, um, uh, Greeks go keto, uh, that that’s their website. And so I got that from them and, uh, and I put