Today, I’m talking with Mark, another person I talked to about four years ago during my Intersections project. If you haven't heard that interview yet, you can hear it in last week's From the Vault episode, along with Leandra Vane. Mark is a gay, married man and I had a great conversation with him as we caught up on his life since we last talked, growth in his marriage, unique struggles of non cishet marriages, puppies, and lots of other things.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:36] Mike: So it's been four years. Yeah. Um, and I know we were talking a little bit before we were recording about like, Identity and, um, yeah. 

[00:00:50] Mark: [00:00:50] Yeah. Well, I think everyone's identity, of course is a very personal thing. Right. I think there are what 6 billion people on the planet. I think there's probably 6 billion identities.

[00:01:00] Right, right. And, um, if you're gonna put me into a box, I'd tell you identify right now is as a gay male. Right. But I think the only true statement I could make is my identity is about being honest with myself about what I want in life. Right. So if, um, if there's one commonality that has stretched from the time when I first told my wife, look, I, I'm pretty sure I'm gay too.

[00:01:30] Um, today where I'm, I'm married to my husband, to what I want for myself in the future. It's just the truth, you know? Not hiding, um, what I want for myself, not finding what I need for myself. Um, so with that, having said that I can't promise that might any, will never change in the future. I can't imagine a day where it would, but 20 years from now, I couldn't imagine the day where I was talking to you today.

[00:02:00] Right, right. But, um, so I just want to identify as a honest person, you know, honest with the people I love and honest with myself. So maybe, maybe that's a cheesy cop out. I don't know. But yeah, 

[00:02:18] Mike: [00:02:18] I like that. I want to identify as an honest person. That's actually, that's a good identity to have nowadays. Yeah.

[00:02:27] Um, yeah. And I dunno, it actually is seeming like more now people are less. The generations coming up and the people that are really like moving forward with this kind of stuff, or like becoming less concerned with identity as much as just being able to be who you are. 

[00:02:51] Mark: [00:02:51] Yeah. Yeah. The, the freedom that younger people feel today is something that I think, um, is a big step forward.

[00:03:04] Our society is made, right? The freedom to be who you are and the right to say, I don't have to be ashamed of myself no matter who I am. You know, that, that, to me, that is a societal progress we've made. Hmm. 

[00:03:20] Mike: [00:03:20] Yeah, it's looking better. I think. I mean, there's still struggles, but it is definitely different than, um, even 10 years ago.

[00:03:32] Mark: [00:03:32] Yeah.

[00:03:32]Mike: [00:03:32] Four years ago. 

[00:03:34] Mark: [00:03:34] Yeah. Yeah. You know, I grew up in a small town in Michigan and in a farm community, there were less than a thousand people who lived in the town that I grew up in at the time. There's like 1200 now, but there's still no stoplight. There wasn't a stoplight and Litchfield Michigan when I was growing up.

[00:03:51] And there isn't one today, but it's only marginally bigger, but, um, being, uh, you know, a pretty feminine gay teenager, um, as I was at the time, I feared for my safety, you know? And I go back there today. That was it, my family. And I see 18, 19 year olds on grinder in Litchfield, Michigan,