Episode 264-Just How F’d up is New Jersey Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 264 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

New Jersey gun laws, Second Amendment, gun ownership, permit system, disqualifiers, red flag laws, extreme risk protection order, duty to warn, sensitive places, gun seizure, gun rights, gun safety, gun legislation, gun advocacy, gun rights groups.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 1, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen, Speaker 2

Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:19
And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, not too long ago, I was on a trip and met some folks, not from New Jersey. They were from part of Free America, so to speak. I might call them Bennies. Well, I’m talking Free America, not even Bennies, but you know, places where they have Constitutional carry and where the Second Amendment is not focused for oppression, but, in fact, focused on trying to maximize and protect Second Amendment rights. And one of the things that was brought up to me by the other folks is, you know, they’ve heard New Jersey is bad on guns, right? The reputation of New Jersey has spread throughout America and actually beyond America, for that matter. And they wanted to know, in so many words, just how effed up is New Jersey. And I decided, you know, not only did I explain to them just how effed up New Jersey is, but I realized that this is something that really needs to be stated and talked about.

Evan Nappen 01:48
I wanted to spend this part of the show on that very topic. Just how effed up New Jersey is. I mean, I know we live and deal with the BS of New Jersey and their Second Amendment oppression. And we constantly are talking about the issues that occur. But you know, for those that might not fully understand it or even see the big picture of just how effed up New Jersey is, I want to paint that. I want to lay that out here, and that’s what I’m going to do in the same way as these folks asked me that question. I wanted to fully explain it to them, because they really wanted to know in a more detailed understanding from somebody who has spent their adult life battling New Jersey’s Second Amendment oppression and dealing with the realities of a state that hates guns and hates gun owners. So, that’s the basic starting point.
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Evan Nappen 02:55
But anyway, let’s talk about our issue, though, about guns. So, they hate guns, and they hate gun owners. They’ve done everything in their power to try to continue that hate and make it have force and effect on us. So, how do they do that? Well, first, they establish an attitude and an agenda. So, the attitude and the agenda is to disenfranchise as many people as they can from their gun rights. Set up a system to do that. Steal as many guns from people, as you can, based on any mechanism they can invent to take them. Go after the industry and the folks that are lawful dealers and suppliers. Make and turn gun owners in a projection of being crazy, of being killers, of being individuals that are a detriment and a danger to everyone and society. And so, they put that as their base, and they promote it in every possible way they can.

Evan Nappen 02:55
You have to first understand that before you even talk about the specific areas of New Jersey and just how bad they are. You have to understand that there’s a baseline, and the baseline is New Jersey hates guns and New Jersey hates gun owners. And you have to accept that. Now, you may not believe it. You may try to say, no, no. They’re misguided, or they’re well intentioned and all. But, you know, I’ve come to really understand, folks, that that’s not the case. It is hatred based. It is based in hate. And much of the Left’s policies are based in hate. I mean, you see it. They’re hate driven people. I mean, they are. They’re hate driven and we, as conservatives and Republicans, actually try to be love driven, honestly. We try to love freedom and love our fellow humans. Try to love, you know, the unborn, try to love. We try to put out love, and the other side puts out hate primarily. And yet, they try to paint us as the haters, but that’s because they’re experts in projection.

Evan Nappen 03:13
So, let’s start by taking a look at the gun laws themselves. The first thing they want to do is create a system where you have the most onerous requirements to even become a gun owner that they can possibly get away with. So, in order to do that, well, we’ll start with having permit and licensing systems. So, you know, we can always, oh, look, having a gun license is reasonable. Having a permit is reasonable. We just want to make sure people that have firearms are safe. And, you know, they sell the standard reasonableness to sell their extremism. Okay, so they do that. New Jersey has a permit system that is outrageous in the questions that it asks, the depths that it will go, and the hoops that individuals must jump through in order to lawfully possess firearms. Now, the amazing thing is, we put up with it, don’t we? We deal with it. We get our Firearms Purchaser ID card. We get a Pistol Purchase Permit for every handgun that we want to buy in New Jersey. We go through it. We actually not only put up with everything to get a carry permit, but we can actually finally get a carry permit. Prior to Bruen, it was virtually unobtainable.

Evan Nappen 03:13
But what’s involved in getting those licenses? Well, all of the gun licenses in New Jersey, all of them, the Firearm ID Card, the Permit to Purchase and the Carry Permit, all have a base of disqualifiers under N.J.S. 2C:58-3. These are all the ways that you can be disqualified to being licensed in New Jersey. And the average person might think, oh, they just don’t want convicted felons to have guns, right? Well, of course, New Jersey prohibits felons from having guns, but not just felons. Anyone with domestic violence misdemeanors. So, they expand it to misdemeanors. Then, of course, it’s anybody
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with a conviction from outside of New Jersey, even if it was a misdemeanor, and even if it’s not domestic violence. If it carries over one year jail outside New Jersey, then you’re prohibited in New Jersey, even though you wouldn’t be prohibited under Federal law. And if you’re convicted in New Jersey of any offense that for which was over six months, where you could have received over six months jail, you are per se disqualified. Just like a felon.

Evan Nappen 04:05
So, you see, they’ve expanded the reasonable, “reasonable”, violent felon to not having to be a violent felon. Being many things other than what might traditionally be viewed as felons. And that’s just on felons. They also go through your background, and they will see if you’ve ever just simply had arrests. If you’ve been charged, even though it was dismissed. Charged – even though you were found not guilty and acquitted any of the charges. And they’ll look at the charges, you were just charged, even though you were never convicted, never found guilty. As a matter of fact, you were even acquitted. And they will still say, oh, well, you’re disqualified from having a gun license based on Public Health, Safety, and Welfare. So, that’s the all inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause that the issuing authorities get to use, so that they can hang their hat on anything they feel like, basically, and say, oh, you’re not safe to have guns because you had an arrest for some offense that you were acquitted for. But we’ve read the police report about what was alleged, and we don’t care that you were not guilty of it. We’re going to say that that makes you somehow a danger, and we see that all the time. We see the abuse of it. So, much that we have data to show that that very section is abused, even with institutionalized racism. Where blacks are more than two and a half to one to whites denied for that reason, that arbitrary public health safety reason that they can get away with anything that they pull out of their ass to try to claim is a basis to disqualify you.

Evan Nappen 09:51
So, that is baked into the cake. And that’s just touching the surface. Because then any mental health commitment at all, even a voluntary one, where you just checked in because you were sad or somebody maybe passed away, or you just had a moment of anxiety, whatever, if you have any kind of mental health commitment. Then they go beyond that even commitment, and say, have you ever been treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist for any mental or physical treatment, now that becomes a bar or a potential bar to you exercising your Second Amendment rights. All this is baked into 58-3. This is the standard that applies to all the licenses, and these are just a few of the disqualifiers. If you have a restraining order on you, or have ever had one, then they look and say, oh, well, look, you had unfounded restraining orders. At least the court determined that. But it doesn’t matter. You had this crazy ex-girlfriend at the time that put these on you, and we’re going to say that makes you a danger to Public Health, Safety, and Welfare. So, you get denied for that dismissed TRO. We’ve seen that over and over again.

Evan Nappen 11:03
So, you have all these disqualifiers in New Jersey. Are you an unlawful user of any kind of drugs? Even though New Jersey has legalized marijuana, the Feds create a problem that creates a conflict there. And then, New Jersey will sometimes even jump on it weirdly and say, well, yeah, you’re using legal marijuana. New Jersey says it’s legal, but we’ll deny you, because the feds say that you can’t. So we say you can’t, too, even though we say you can in the state. What is that? That’s just insanity. And
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again, we’ve run into that. I mean, it goes to a situation of New Jersey knows no bounds when it comes just to denying you getting your gun license. And so that’s what the foundation for just getting your ability to purchase. Go ahead, Teddy.

Teddy Nappen 11:59
I was going to say you called it a long time ago, where you said, like, at this point, just New Jersey can come out and say, you know, death penalty to gun owners. And then, sure enough, they raised the level for them with the assault weapon law. If you’re caught with.

Evan Nappen 12:13 Oh, yeah.

Teddy Nappen 12:13
Assault firearm in New Jersey, it’s a first degree. So, yeah, they really.

Evan Nappen 12:17
We haven’t even, right? Well, we haven’t even gotten to that yet, but at this point, I’m confident eventually they will, because their hatred has no bounds. But now, putting aside just the insanity of being able to get licensed in New Jersey and everything you have to do to get to that and get through all their obstacles that they put in the way, plus paying the fees to do it, plus waiting the exorbitant amount of time it takes to get approved and filling out and doing the application and all the time consuming obstacles they put there. Plus requiring the training and photographs and references and everything they can pile on to discourage you, even with all that, we still in New Jersey plow through it and still get our permits. Still get our guns. Even though so many people have to fight, fight, fight, to make it happen.

Evan Nappen 13:18
Then once you have them, now New Jersey’s focus is, how can we steal your guns away and get you disenfranchised. Take away your license. Get you revoked. So, they have a series of legal mechanisms that are set up to do that. They have what’s called Red Flag or called ERPO, Extreme Risk Protection Order where anyone can make a claim that you’re somehow a danger. And then, without you having any say in the matter whatsoever, they take your guns, file this order, and you have to go to court. And then you finally get your due process. Finally, after there’s been no due process for you. You have to fight to get your rights back. And then the battle begins there. They also have Duty to Warn. That’s where if you tell any medical professional, a doctor, a nurse, therapist, anyone, that you in any way want to harm yourself or others. And I mean even as a joke or even as hyperbole. You know, oh man, I could kill that guy, or I’m so mad, I could, you know, harm him, harm myself. Even as a joke. Or, you know, it’s like making a bomb joke at the airport. If you do that, boom, they’re obligated to call the police. Your guns are going to be taken, and you’re going to end up having to fight to get your rights back.

Evan Nappen 14:37
Anytime there’s any allegation of domestic violence, no matter how unfounded, it’s baked into the cake. Built right into the form of the Temporary Restraining Order, pre-printed. All the judge has to do is click
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the box and basically write in there the address so that your guns will be seized pursuant to the TRO, and you’re required to surrender them. So, there’s another mechanism. Then they have the other mechanism that I see, and that’s called pulling it out of their ass. Where the police just take all the guns, for a “safe keeping”, without any statutory basis or court order. And we see that happen all the time. So, it’s one thing to get all licensed and get your guns, then we see New Jersey going to take your guns.

Evan Nappen 15:18
New Jersey passes all different matrix of laws that you have to follow in order to lawfully keep your guns. So, there are 25 plus different “sensitive places” if you’re going to carry. Requirements on holsters. Requirements to tell the officer that you’re carrying a gun, if you’re carrying a gun (Duty to Disclose). Requirements on the size of the magazine, right? It went from 15, then went to 10. And, you know, they’re deciding how many bullets your life is worth. And making all these things, by the way, felonies. Felony level offenses. So, if you have a mag that holds 11 rounds instead of 10, it’s a fourth degree level felony. You’re looking at a year and a half in State Prison. You lose your gun rights. You become a convicted felon. You not only lose your gun rights for New Jersey, but also for the entire United States because you’re now a convicted felon under New Jersey’s insane gun laws. So, they’ve disenfranchised you nationally, not just state side, of your rights.

Evan Nappen 16:20
New Jersey also makes many of these gun offenses incredibly serious. They raised them to levels unheard of – Second Degree. They combine what is minimum mandatory prison sentences so that the judge has no discretion whatsoever. If you’re outside of your lawful ability to possess due to an honest mistake, oh, well, three and a half years minimum mandatory in States Prison for you. Too bad. It doesn’t matter that you have no priors. It doesn’t matter one bit. The judge loses all discretion. It’s required with no way out from under should you become convicted. Then they combine that into the Gun Owner Gulag, where, when you get charged with any of these things, now, the state tries to hold you pending your trial, which can months and months. It could be years. And they’re looking to enhance the Gun Owner Gulag and create presumptions requiring you to remain incarcerated until your trial. Proven guilty of nothing. We deal with these Gulag cases. We’ve discussed them and just how horrible it is in New Jersey. And so, they gulag the gun owners. They want to incarcerate the gun owners. They want to take away their rights. They want to disenfranchise, and they want to steal the firearms. Keep them and forfeit them. They want to turn gun owners into criminals. They want to make them into felons. So, they not only lose their gun rights, but also the right to vote. This is the system that is New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 17:50
This is just an overview of just how effed up New Jersey is, and I see it every day in the practice of gun law. You have to be tough, strong and smart to remain a gun owner in New Jersey. You are, frankly, putting yourself at risk being a gun owner in New Jersey to the system trying to destroy you. But those that believe in their self-defense rights, their rights to have a firearm, still exercise it. Despite the hatred that we deal with emanating from New Jersey.
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Evan Nappen 18:36
And now with this election, the hatred is going to continue, and it’s going to get worse, folks. It’s going to get worse. There are bills pending now that went halfway through the legislature, and we expect to see a big fight. If these other bills go through, they’re going to make the Gulag even worse and virtually automatic on every gun owner to be held pending their trial. There are bills there to turn accidental discharge, which is already aggressively enforced under current law, into what will be a per se offense. A felony, per se. With any AD, you’re looking at felony charges and being put in the Gulag, losing your gun rights. New Jersey’s march to insanity. And I still didn’t even touch the Platkin office where they’re civilly going after retail dealers, gun makers, and manufacturers. Trying to litigate them out of existence, trying to find every way to loophole around the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) designed to try to stop the very thing that New Jersey’s engaging in. The very thing they’re engaging in. They’re trying to litigate them out of existence.

Evan Nappen 19:51
It’s on every front that we’re in a fight for our rights, and New Jersey has no respect. It should be the opposite. They should do everything they can to protect, preserve and respect our Second Amendment rights. But no. It is exactly what they’re not doing. This, my friends, is how effed up New Jersey is. It’s just an overview of what Gun Lawyer deals with all the time in the practice of law. And even though I’ve laid this all out, please keep up the fight. Stay strong, stay smart. We’re going to eventually win. The Constitution is on our side. It’s taking time. It’s going to take effort. But we’ve got the tools federally to finally crush New Jersey and what they’ve done to us for decades upon decades. The height of the fight is here and now, but I do believe the future will be tremendously better for us. It will be. But getting there is going to take standing strong.

Evan Nappen 21:08
And, of course, one of the ways we do that is by unity. By making sure you’re part of groups that fight for our rights. In unity there is strength. And in New Jersey, the number one gun rights group is the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the official NRA affiliate. They are the state affiliate. They are also the umbrella organization of the gun clubs of New Jersey. They also have individual members of which you need to be one. They’re there on the front lines. They’re there in Trenton, keeping a full-time paid lobbyist there on guard so that we can take action. And even though the odds are against us, we still can win. We still can and will win. Part of that battle is having a great group like Association. So, make sure you belong to ANJRPC.org. They’re also in the courts, litigating, fighting. We’re going to see court cases that the Association is part of finally getting to the stage of tremendous impact by reaching the Supreme Court. I’m confident that we will see that. There are so many cases heading there. The Supreme Court already has picked to hear two more gun cases, and we’re going to see more and more gun cases. It will be through the enforcement of our Second Amendment right that we finally stop what has been an atrocity by the State of New Jersey over a Constitutional right. And it’s through your State Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, that you can see that happen. (anjrpc.org)

Evan Nappen 22:53
And let me also tell you about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. They’re an indoor range. It’s the place where Teddy and I both shoot. They are very dynamic and doing a lot of
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great things. And one of the things I want to point out that they have going on, and you may be very interested in this, is that on November 20, they will be holding the Diversity Shoot. That’s right. A Diversity Shoot that’s with my friend Tony Simon. It’s the 2A4E Diversity Shoot. It is an outreach of true diversity, because the Second Amendment is for everyone. Okay? That’s what 2A4E means. The Second Amendment is for everyone. And so, let me put it this way. Do you have a friend who’s been wanting to try, let’s say shooting, but is full of excuses? Go to Tony Simon, at WeShoot on November 20 for the Diversity Shoot. All are welcome. Tony is just great to be with. He’s very entertaining, and you will see cutting edge technology. There’ll be free pizza and other refreshments there, and it’s an all inclusive day. They provide everything – the range time and targets and rentals and more. I mean, think about it, pizza and shooting. How can it get any better than that? And Tony will be there. So, think about participating in the WeShoot Diversity Shoot. It’s outreach, and it’s critical.

Evan Nappen 24:47
Because everybody that overcomes the stereotypical media portrayal of a gun owner, every time we do that, we have another person with a vested interest in our Second Amendment rights and has been able to cut through the media BS narrative about guns. They realize that firearms as a right is there for a reason. It’s there to protect you and protect the ones you love. Those that would find a diversity shoot the most helpful are often those that need the protection the most. So, learn and discover the truth by participating November 20 in the WeShoot Diversity Shoot. Going to the WeShoot range. They have training, a great facility, and they welcome all shooters. They welcome all to exercise your Second Amendment right in New Jersey. So, check them out at weshootusa.com.

Evan Nappen 26:08
And speaking of just how effed up New Jersey is, one of the ways to navigate through the treachery that is New Jersey is, with my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s set up purposely to help maintain our ability to be lawful gun owners in the face of New Jersey’s attack and hatred upon us. And I wrote it for just that reason, even though it’s used by state police, judges, lawyers, but thousands of gun owners to stay legal. I explain what you need to know in a question and answer format with over 120 topics. And when you get the book, scan the front cover and make sure you get part of my free subscriber base. You can immediately access the archives that include the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which has full chapters updated, including a bonus chapter on “sensitive places”. I broke out the sensitive places so you know where you can and can’t carry to simplify that matrix for you. To get your copy, go to EvanNappen.com. Evan nappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book. Just click it and buy it. You’ll be glad you did. Hey, Teddy, what do you got for us today in Press Checks?

Teddy Nappen 27:44
Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. And going into what you have talked about, the whole warfare, and I’m calling it warfare, because the left are the party of violence, changed my mind. I’ve seen all this stuff on that, but this seems to be the newest push. I was scrolling through and found this one from, I believe, it was from the Wall Street Journal. “Six Words Every Killer Should Know: ‘I Feared For My Life, Officer.” (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/six-words-every-killer-should- know-i-feared-for-my-life-officer/ar-AA1PnHC0) Okay, first of all, South Park already did this joke. It’s called, he’s coming right for us. Like, secondly. What? And going into this whole article there, this entire
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thing is an anti-stand your ground argument that they go into. Just the utter insanity of actually defending. They find it is shameful. And here I’ll even read it to you. “It’s easier than ever to kill someone in America and get away with it.”

Evan Nappen 28:57 Oh, God.

Teddy Nappen 28:58
Okay then. In 30 states, it’s often required only to claim you killed someone while protecting yourself or others. Well, I mean, typically people will make that argument if they were trying to protect someone else or yourself, like.

Evan Nappen 29:17
Well, that’s because it’s called a lawful use of force.

Teddy Nappen 29:21 Oh, my God.

Evan Nappen 29:22 Big shock.

Teddy Nappen 29:23
Like, that’s how the law works.

Evan Nappen 29:25 Yeah. Almost.

Teddy Nappen 29:26
Like, yeah, God, these people, and then.

Evan Nappen 29:30
They’re conflating the Stand Your Ground and such with.

Teddy Nappen 29:36 Correct.

Evan Nappen 29:37 Yeah.

Teddy Nappen 29:37
Oh, and then they highlight it. While Americans have long been free to use deadly force to defend themselves at home, so-called Stand Your Ground laws in those 30 states extend the legal protections. So, first off, the logical fallacy right here, where they’re trying to equate inside the home versus outside
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the home. You have a right to defend yourself outside your home. It doesn’t stop. Like, what? Is every murderer like, oh, we got to wait till he gets out of the house or he’ll have a good defense.

Evan Nappen 30:14
Okay, okay, okay. Let me, I have to clarify this, Teddy. This is really critical for folks. I even have folks that have called me, that have bought into the media narrative on this, which could almost be detrimental to them. Here’s the deal. Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground is not the requirement that you must meet in order to be justified in your use of deadly force. All castle doctrine and all stand your ground doctrine, all they have to do with is the duty to retreat. Okay? The duty to retreat. That’s it. The duty to retreat is an exception, an exception now, to your lawful ability to use deadly force. So, in other words, the law lays out your ability to use deadly force. You can use deadly force when there’s a reasonable fear, risk of serious bodily injury, or death to you, and you’re reasonable in that use of force, et cetera. Then the law says, however. However, if you can retreat with complete safety, then you can’t and should not, and you’re not justified in using that force. So, in other words, if you can retreat with complete safety, then you’re not justified in using force. Otherwise, you’re justified in using force. So, castle doctrine says, in your home, you don’t have to retreat. Stand your ground says, if you’re in a place where you lawfully can be, you don’t have to retreat. All it does is remove the duty to retreat.

Evan Nappen 32:00
Yet that entire argument about retreat is virtually an argument of silliness. And the reason I say silly is because you have to be able to retreat with complete safety. Tell me how you retreat from a situation where you’re facing serious bodily injury or death with complete safety. Other than, you know, beam me up, Scotty, there’s no complete safety anyway. So, where are they going with it? And as you said, Teddy. You still have a right to use deadly force. The only question is, did you have a duty to retreat? Well, you only have a duty to retreat if you can do so with complete safety. You definitely have no duty to retreat in your home, that’s castle doctrine. And with stand your ground, you have no duty to retreat if you are in a place that you have a right to be. New Jersey does not have “stand your ground”. It does not have that. But even without stand your ground, it doesn’t mean you lose your right to use deadly force. You just can’t use it if you can retreat with complete safety. So, that is the explanation of that. But go ahead, Teddy. I wanted to clarify because we see a lot of confusion.

Teddy Nappen 33:17
I find that very important, because, by the way, the article doesn’t even mention that distinction.

Evan Nappen 33:23
Right? Why would they do that? Why would they do that?

Teddy Nappen 33:27
Hmmm. It goes on. It gets worse, and this is one thing it highlights, which I laughed at. Justifiable homicides by civilians have increased 59% from 2019 through 2024.

Evan Nappen 33:43 Well, that’s a good thing.
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Teddy Nappen 33:44 Of city, so let me.

Evan Nappen 33:46
That’s a really good thing. Notice that first word, “justifiable” homicide. Well, great. I’m glad they were justified. That meant, if they didn’t have the firearm, they would have been dead, right? They would have faced. Here’s man, yeah, right, come on.

Teddy Nappen 34:03
Here’s the reword of it. Lawful individuals defended their home and shot the criminal who was.

Evan Nappen 34:12
Precisely, precisely. In other words, there’s been an upkeep of lawful self-defense. God bless. Great. Yeah, hallelujah. As well there should be. I’m glad to see it. Every lawful self-defender being a defender and no longer a victim.

Teddy Nappen 34:29
Yeah, and I love. And then, of course, they go with the with more guns in more hands, families are grieving over loved ones lost to quick tempered killings, often involving law-abiding civilians, with no one held accountable. Often, oh, often.

Evan Nappen 34:49
Oh, how often. No one held accountable. That’s right. Yeah, because our, you know, the system just ignores dead people all the time. No. What they, what they used to do is ignore victims, okay? And once victims are no longer victims but defenders, they look real close at what defenders do. They look very closely. And if defenders are justified, then that’s what it’s for. That’s what it’s about. That is the proper use of gun violence. That’s where I’m in favor of gun violence when it’s justified by lawful defenders. Bring on the gun violence.

Teddy Nappen 35:37
Yeah, and I love how they and I got to meet this guy, the authors, Mark Maremont and Paul Overberg. The story because, you know, they have to cherry pick. That’s the game they always play. The story they chose is the worst example. So, here, in De Leon Springs, Florida, this Edward Druzolowski, 78 years old, is watching football. And his neighbor, a 42 years old, and his son, comes on to his property. He’s cutting branches, and he has a chainsaw in his hand. So, he comes on to the other guy’s property with a chainsaw. Now, bear in mind, the other guy who was named Ford, was screaming profanity, yelling curses at Druzolowski who told him to get off his property.

Evan Nappen 36:35
So, wait. You got a crazy guy on meth with a chainsaw?

Teddy Nappen 36:42 Correct.
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Evan Nappen 36:43
And he was coming at a guy on his property.

Teddy Nappen 36:48 Swearing at him.

Evan Nappen 36:49
Didn’t they do like a movie about that?

Teddy Nappen 36:51
Yeah. No, yeah. It’s leather face. Like they’re arguing that, I love this guy.

Evan Nappen 36:59
So, if you’re attacked by leather face, they think that’s a problem in using deadly force on leather face?

Teddy Nappen 37:06
Like I told him to get off my property. He didn’t. That guy was coming, walking at me. He was coming right at me, walking at me with a chainsaw. So, I shot him. Like, oh my god, the level of insanity. And then the judge later dismisses the case in Florida because of the Stand Your Ground laws, citing to such forces reasonably necessary to defend yourself against Mr. Ford’s imminent use of unlawful force. Okay? Charging at a man with a chainsaw.

Evan Nappen 37:37
Right. But keep in mind that, being called stand your ground, that itself, though, isn’t really about the Stand Your Ground portion so much. In other words, yeah, he didn’t have a duty to retreat because Florida says you don’t have to retreat if you in a place that you have a right to be. But it’s more than that. He defended himself against a crazed meth guy with a chainsaw, trying to relive, you know, a classic horror movie on it, on this guy’s ass, right? And he’s like, no, and you’re going to tell me, even without stand your ground, how the hell are you going to get away with complete safety from a crazed meth guy with a chainsaw after you? With complete safety? Are you going to turn your back and try to run from that guy? Really? What if you trip? What if you fall? We’re talking in complete safety. Where’s the safety? Not a chance, not a chance. So, I’m glad they looked at it. They’re putting it under this banner of stand your ground, but in reality, what was it? It was justifiable. Because he was justified in using deadly force based on the threat that was coming at the would-be victim. That’s how it works. That’s why.

Teddy Nappen 38:59
And it’s one of those that. And then, of course, they have to go with this. And this kind of reminds me, Dad, I believe it was it when you debated, who was it fire, or who was the one guy where? Where the where the lady was like, if two kids came in into your home, Mr. Nappen, and was stealing your food, would you shoot them? Like, no. Are they running away? Are they not threatening me? No, they’re just stealing the food and running away. Well, then I’m not going to shoot them.
Page – 11 – of 13
Evan Nappen 39:31
Well, wait, what if it was pork roll?

Teddy Nappen 39:33 I know, right?

Evan Nappen 39:34
Or Taylor, ham, either one.

Teddy Nappen 39:36
Who would eat that? That’s gross.

Speaker 1 39:38
Uh, well, like, I hear you.

Teddy Nappen 39:44
They have this argument. Like, what if I’m in the 10 items or less line and I have 15 items. And the shopper shoves me in line, shoves me. Can I shoot him?

Evan Nappen 39:56
Is there a threat of serious bodily harm? No. Don’t. They don’t reach the standard reason for use of deadly force. Come on, of course not.

Teddy Nappen 40:03
Yeah. And that part that they like to hide, does he think? Like, it’s always blood in the streets. They always argue that it’s going to be the wild west.

Evan Nappen 40:11
BITS. Blood In The Streets. Bits, always the BITS argument. Bits, bits, bits. Yeah. Well, Teddy the time has come for the segment that everybody wants to know, and that is the GOFU. That’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. And the GOFUs are mistakes made by real people in real cases that we see. We want you to learn on the cheap, lessons that these folks have learned expensively. So, this is important. This GOFU that I want to talk about here has to do with storing your guns in your own safe. I’ve been seeing a lot of this. A lot of folks out there, you know, have a gun safe, which is good. You have a gun safe, but in your gun safe, you have your guns, your spouse’s guns, your son’s guns, everybody’s guns is all stuffed in the same safe. Well, that means everybody’s accessing everybody else’s guns. And that’s not good. It’s not good legally speaking. Because they can try to allege unlawful acquisition or transfers, especially if anybody there ends up developing an issue that may preclude them.

Evan Nappen 41:33
We also run into it where if all the guns are in a safe. If one person in the household has an issue and they want to seize that person’s guns, the safe gets opened by law enforcement. And everybody’s guns are getting seized. Plus, if there’s issues as to even the legality of the safe itself being opened, and one
Page – 12 – of 13
of the people in the house consent to it, even though they shouldn’t have, then everybody’s guns get seized and the person. So, there’s a lot of reasons. And the GOFU is, don’t have one safe that has everybody guns in one safe. Everybody should have their own gun safe, their own locked safe. Whatever you’re using that has your own guns in it, do not have a communal gun safe in New Jersey. It is a problem, arguably, under the law as to gun possession. But it also makes you more vulnerable when it comes to New Jersey trying to seize and steal guns from individuals. Have your own gun safe, folks. Don’t commit the GOFU of a communal gun safe.

Evan Nappen 42:48
This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 42:59
Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.
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Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E264_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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