Episode 254- Is A Trans Gun Ban A Good Idea? Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 254 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Gun ban, transgender individuals, NRA opposition, Second Amendment, New Jersey gun laws, mental health issues, Trump administration, 4473 form, non-binary category, National Instant Check System, gender dysphoria, gun rights, political ramifications, gun confiscation, compliance rates.

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2

Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:19
And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I don’t know, maybe President Trump listens to Gun Lawyer. Because after our show last week, when we talked about gun bans for trans and explored that topic, it appears that the Trump administration is actually considering doing that. (https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/04/politics/transgender-firearms-justice-department-second-amendment) And I guess the question is, is that a good idea or not? Now, let me just say straight out that NRA, from their news release, stated they are against any type of sweeping ban on anyone. (https://x.com/NRA/status/1963993115410198964) Particularly noted there were transgender individuals. They are opposed to it, and I can absolutely understand from principle why we would want to oppose as being not oppressors, but those in favor of expanding and not restricting gun rights.

Evan Nappen 01:30
But if President Trump and his administration pursue this, there are interesting political ramifications that I want to talk about. It may, in the long run, actually be pro-Second Amendment rights to enact a gun ban for trans. Believe it or not. Now, I don’t know. I don’t have a crystal ball, but there are factors to be considered in this. My initial reaction, of course, is the same as NRA’s and that is, I oppose any kind of gun ban, because that’s a Constitutional right. It is something that should not be prohibited to anyone, because I’m an extremist when it comes to gun rights. So, that’s my personal viewpoint. And people could take issue with that by saying, well, you would want anybody? Yeah, because I think the gun laws don’t work, and you’re not stopping anybody, in reality, other than good people. So, gun laws are basically useless. But that’s not our society that we live in, is it? Instead, we’ve embarked on having gun laws that are claimed to be reasonable, when in fact, we see that they’re quite unreasonable.

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Evan Nappen 03:01
I deal with that every day, especially in New Jersey, which has abused that situation to an amazing degree. To such a degree of absurdity, to a degree that generally in America, people don’t understand just how bad it is in New Jersey. And New Jersey is proud of their tough gun laws. They’re proud of it. They even go and try to impose their will everywhere else when it comes to stopping law-abiding citizens from having guns. And of course, it’s all fueled by what? By the Left, by the Democrat Left. You know, there are some RHINOs that will jump on board now and then, but it’s essentially their position. The position of the Left is restrict guns, restrict gun rights, and be our oppressors. Okay? And we’ve had to deal with that fight. And so, what makes this very interesting is that they are now going to focus on what is a darling of the Left, and that is the transgender folks. You know, if you’re an illegal immigrant or transgender, then the Left bends over backwards for you in every way, and we’ve seen it. Whether it has to do with protecting violent criminals who are illegal immigrants or downplaying any time a trans commits a mass shooting. Putting out their propaganda that says, oh, you know, they’re really not, they’re really not any more dangerous.

Evan Nappen 04:44
When we talked about that last, where we went deeper than the media propaganda on it to show, no, they actually is greater psychological issues for those that have the transgender dysphoria, that gender dysphoria. This is, you know, all part of the propaganda media. But what makes this interesting to me is now it might be, by way of what President Trump is considering, a way of putting the Left back on its heels. It may be something where ultimately the fight as to the Constitutionality of that very action could actually have a great effect on expanding and getting rid of so much of the extremism in New Jersey, because now it’s the Left’s ox being gored, and they don’t want that. They don’t like that. And so, now they get to choose. What is it? It’s like that meme where it has the guy sweating with the two red buttons, right? Gun control or supporting transgender? What is it that you like more? Right? You’ve got to pick, and they’re absolutely conflicted and can’t pick. Well, that puts it in perspective as to all the other suffering and all the other things they do preventing all kinds of other folks from being able to exercise their rights.

Evan Nappen 06:33
So, it would really interestingly lay the groundwork on even the challenge, which I would assume would be sure to come, that could have much broader consequences if it’s found, in fact, to be unconstitutional. Who knows? Maybe it wouldn’t be, which then might be even a problem. I mean, it could make it worse. It’s true. It’s hard to say how that’ll play out, but definitely the politics of it are fascinating. And if we were to just for a moment take a position of, let’s say, the Trump Justice Department or the administration, where they’re looking at possibly enacting a trans ban and doing similar things in the way they have stopped trans from being in the military and have taken other steps regarding that. What actually could President Trump and his administration do to effectuate stopping trans from getting guns? So, there’s one thing right off the bat that they could pretty easily do. That is, on the 4473, when you fill out a 4473, which is the form you fill out when you buy a gun from a dealer, one of the things on that application asks, are you male, female or non-binary? (https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form- 53009/download)

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Evan Nappen 08:10
So that non. No, no, that’s a separate question. That’s a separate question on it. That’s all. That’s a whole other racist issue there. But just on trans, the addition of non-binary to that form is, in effect, a lie. Because your birth is either male or female. And whatever you identify as, whatever your, you know, trans issues are, that’s all well and good. But basically, biological sex is something that factually can be determined. And what’s gotten interesting is that many states allow for non-binary on their driver’s licenses. So, by removing non-binary as a category of the 4473, which can be done in the same way that it was added to the 4473. It wasn’t done by laws. It was done by administration, by eliminating it. Now, anyone who doesn’t have an ID that specifies male or female becomes prohibited from acquiring a firearm from a dealer, because the Federal government doesn’t have to recognize non-binary as a category. And in fact, they could do that. Prior to that change being added to the 4473, individuals that had licenses from states that had non-binary as a category for their driver’s license ended up not being able to purchase guns from dealers and being able to fill out of the 4473. And that could be something that Trump could return to, by knocking out the non-binary category.

Evan Nappen 10:09
It could even go further, because the driver’s licenses that list as non-binary could also easily be part of the NICS, the National Instant Check System. So, in fact, a database of non-binary, which exists in the states, can be fed into the NICS system. And that is precisely what happens with criminal records and what happens with mental health records. You can even say, hey, you know, whether I’m non-binary, that should be private. That should be. No, it’s not. I mean, mental health commitments aren’t private. If a mental health commitment is something that is databased into the NICS system and in which grant monies were provided under, specifically, the 2007 NICS Improvement Act to encourage states to put mental health commitments data into the database, well, it could be done for putting transgender, non- binary license holders into a database and making it a preclusion, because it’s no longer a category that can even be asked on the form. And, by the way, anyone who has received Federal monies for gender dysphoria treatments, medical records of it, medical commitments, in the same way that mental health commitments, that data can be accessed. If you think you have medical privacy, well, that’s a joke. Because I see it all the time in New Jersey. There is no medical privacy. And New Jersey goes even further.

Evan Nappen 11:52
So, Trump could adopt the New Jersey model that they’re so proud of, the Jersey model, the New Jersey gun control, gun rights suppression question. It would just take a very simple modification. Because right now, New Jersey gun law, under N.J.S. 2C:58-3, which has the licensing criteria and what we call the disqualifiers. Well, right in there under subsection c., where they put all the disqualifiers, look at what it says. It says, “c. Who may obtain.” And when you go to number (3), it says, “To any person”, these are, this is someone who’s now prohibited, ready? “To any person who suffers from a physical defect or disease which would make it unsafe for that person to handle firearms, . . .” So, we’re immediately going at anybody with physical defect or disease, you know. If you have a physical disability, well, if it makes you unsafe to handle firearms, that’s New Jersey law right now on that. “. . . to any person with a substance use disorder involving drugs . . ., or to any alcoholic . . . unless any of the foregoing persons produces a certificate of a medical doctor, treatment provider, or psychiatrist licensed in New Jersey, or other satisfactory proof, that the person is no longer suffering

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from that particular disability in a manner that would interfere with or handicap that person in the handling of firearms. . . ”

Teddy Nappen 13:54
Good luck trying to get a doctor to say that.

Evan Nappen 13:56
Well, all we have to do is add in, take the New Jersey language right there that they’re so freaking proud of, and just say, “to any person who suffers from gender dysphoria or has received treatment for that, or as non-binary, or any way you want to define it, or put it in there. But put it right there and then just add “unless the foregoing person produces a certificate of a medical doctor, treatment provider or psychiatrist”, and that’s how you would then have to overcome it. It’s simply being based on the gun rights oppression law of New Jersey that they’re so proud of. They want to force it on everybody else. So, hey, they opened the door for it. And what if such a law was passed? Don’t you think it would be challenged? I think it would be. And if it was something Federal, I think people would be jumping into the courts pretty fast over that. One, because of the activism, and this time it would be the Left, the supporters of gun rights oppression. Trying to say that by requiring that, what I just read you verbatim from New Jersey law, and applying it to the trans issue, oh, that’s unconstitutional. That’s a violation of the Second Amendment, you see. Now, when it suits them, they’ll argue it.

Evan Nappen 15:29
Well, those kind of cases can have impact, and it can have impact in possibly torpedoing this entire approach as well as it should be. Because what I just read you there is not found currently in Federal law. In Federal law, there is no prohibitor for “physical defect or disease” that would make it unsafe. There’s no Federal prohibitor for that substance use disorder. No. Now you can’t be a user, a user, but it’s not about having a disorder, and the Feds roll with that. So, you know, you might be able to even expand on how the Feds deal with the drug issue, and kind of put in the New Jersey special into that one. Or “any alcoholic”. There’s no Federal prohibition currently on “any alcoholic”. And then you create their exemption, the same exemption. So, make these folks have to get the exemption that New Jersey puts in there, because their law is so wonderful, right? So, you can see that, you know. It is possible. It’s possible to do this.

Evan Nappen 16:45
It’s possible to create a database as well, which is what’s done already in all these other areas. It’s possible to change the application, very easily, which has been done in the reverse. So, all these are possibilities that the Trump administration could do. And you know, my basic view is, I hope they don’t. Because I don’t want to see further oppression of our gun rights. But if they do, it may open the door for court challenges. It may finally, maybe, wake up some folks on the Left. Probably not, but maybe that they see it. They may see the light that, hey, what comes around goes around, you know what I mean. You were all high and mighty about screwing everybody else, and now suddenly, the folks that you’re so concerned about, oh, look what happened. Look what happened. So maybe you shouldn’t be so much of a gun rights oppressionists after all. And it may be a lesson learned, and it may be a way to teach that lesson. Maybe, maybe. Like I said, my fundamental feeling is the same as the NRA’s, but I’m open to explore it. Open to explore it, that is for sure.

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Teddy Nappen 18:13
Looking at it politically, I understand, encroachment of our rights is typically bad. It’s not going to end well, and they’ll be or down the line. But politically speaking, this brings it into the forefront. Particularly on that. The whole trans issue is 80/20, more like a 95/5 and.

Evan Nappen 18:37 Right?

Teddy Nappen 18:37
And we have been winning on that issue repeatedly. I think what is very important about this is it pivots the conversation. Because now the Republicans have a new angle they can play, which is, stop talking about the inanimate object. We’re talking about we have a mental health issue in our country, and we point to this exact thing. Why don’t you want to deal with this issue? Right here from the last podcast, you listed off all the data. All the mental health problems that come with trans issue.

Evan Nappen 19:09
And that’s right from the National Health.

Teddy Nappen 19:15 Yeah.

Evan Nappen 19:15
Folks themselves. They put it out. But you see, they couch it in a way where they’re trying to say, if you look at the articles on it, every article about this idea has the propaganda in it that says, oh, transgenders are not responsible for these. They’re not responsible. You know, that’s just, you know, prejudicial. No. There is the data on it that they’re purposely suppressing and misconstruing so it fits their message. You know. No. The data is there, and the shootings are there by these people. They’re out there. Okay? Oh, well, you know. I mean, it’s just a fact. But how do we solve it? And as you say, Teddy, with a focus, actually, on mental health. That may help to bring it to what the real problem is, because it’s surely not inanimate objects. Yet, you always see, you know, the blood dance that take place after any shooting. And, oh, you know, we gotta ban the intrinsically evil black rifle with only one purpose – to kill hundreds of people. You know. And then, when you ask them, can you tell me what an assault firearm is? They can’t even define it. They can’t define it. They can’t define what a woman is. So, why would you expect them to be able to define what an assault firearm is?

Teddy Nappen 20:45
The other thing I can see is this in the grand scheme. We’ve talked about this with New Jersey law. If they did try to apply what New Jersey has to the country, to stop all trans, I imagine there would be a way where they would just try to carve out an exception, typically, those with gender dysphoria.

Evan Nappen 21:06
Oh yeah, that’s right. Well, like they did that on the abortion providers that were breaking the law. They specifically carved an exemption under the gun laws in New Jersey. If you’re a fugitive from justice

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because you helped facilitate an illegal abortion or help someone get it illegally, or you’re fleeing from that, you’re exempt. So, yeah, if anything, they would bend over backwards to exempt this from the gun laws, but we can’t let them do that. At the moment, by the way, New Jersey hasn’t exempted that. So, the mental health question in New Jersey, if you’re not falling in those categories we reviewed, then it comes down to whether you’ve had a voluntary or involuntary commitment. If anybody that has the trans issue has had a voluntary or involuntary commitment in New Jersey, then you are already prohibited under New Jersey law. They did not put an exception in, and the only way you can get your rights back is if you can get an expungement of that mental health commitment. And since so many have that excess. Go ahead, Tedddy.

Teddy Nappen 22:17
The other way that Trump could do this, and I don’t know if it would be possible, particularly with marijuana, it’s still prohibited federally. And, you know, Bang or Bong, you can’t have both. Would there be a way to put the “gender affirming care” drugs in that category. A lower enough tier to where it can be prescribed.

Evan Nappen 22:39
Hey, I bet that’s an interesting idea. They might be looking at that because of this issue, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the administration does take steps here. Because you point out the politics of it really end up putting the Left back on their heels, and like I say, even though we have a general aversion to anything that creates right suppression, the politics of this are undeniably fascinating. It just puts the entire political situation on its ear. Because now you have conservatives, including the NRA, standing up for transgender rights. Let that sink in, folks. And I’m not saying it’s bad, but you know, does the Left acknowledge this? Do they say, hey, the oldest civil rights organization in America is against this. And by the way, what about the oppressionists? What about the gun rights oppression folks at like The Trace? Are they in favor of a trans gun ban? Well, probably not, because they’re not really responsible for this. There’s so few and, you know. I can see them rationalizing it away, of course, for their politics. The NRA didn’t rationalize it away. They said no. They said, no, we are against any blanket policy like that. So, they’re standing up for it, but it’s still a fascinating idea. And New Jersey has laid the groundwork, if you will. If the Trump administration actually wanted to pursue it, they could follow the New Jersey model that they so proudly try to promote throughout America on everything else.

Teddy Nappen 24:35
I would like. It would be very funny if Josh Sugarman comes out with a new book, NRA – Castrations and Gun Rights, or, you know, something along those lines.

Evan Nappen 24:49
Yeah, NRA supports. Right. They way they support felons getting guns, right? But where they. Yeah, actually, there you have it right there. If you have the dysphoria, then you have to go through the Relief from Disabilities Program where you’re approved so that you can have your gun rights in the same way as a convicted felon would get their rights restored. So, they could do the ban. This is another approach. They could do the ban, but leave in place the ability for those that are safe and not a danger, just like for felons, just like exactly what Relief from Disability under federal law. What that program is about and that (Senator Charles) Schumer killed way back. We haven’t had the process for 33 years,

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and President Trump and his administration is finally opening it up again, so many good people can get their rights back. Well, you could leave that as the mechanism for gaining rights if you have the dysphoria disqualifier. So, there’s already something federally in place that could be utilized to do that. Very interesting.

Evan Nappen 26:03
So, anyway, Teddy. I want to mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. We’re fighting these New Jersey gun laws that never seem to be enough. And of course, there’s a whole package that got halfway through and that they’re going to look to stick it to gun owners again. Another BOHICA (Bend Over Here It Comes Again) to gun owners coming up from Murphy and company. And it’s the State Association, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, that’s standing in the way and fighting to stop it. It’s that whole horror show of new bills, including the insane enhancement to the Gun Owner Gulag, and making any firearm discharge a felony, whether it was uncommanded or accidental. Immediately you’re charged with a felony, which will then throw you into the Gulag. It is just more of their shenanigans to incarcerate gun owners, to disenfranchise us of our rights. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs is at the forefront, both legislatively and in the courts. You really need to be a member. Make sure you join anjrpc.org, anjrpc.org. You’ll be glad you did. You’ll get email alerts so you’ll know what’s going on. You’ll know that you are part of the solution.

Evan Nappen 27:39
Also, let’s mention our favorite range, where Teddy and I both get our training and we shoot at. WeShoot is a great range in Lakewood, New Jersey, conveniently off the Parkway. WeShoot has a great website. Go to weshootusa.com. This week at WeShoot, they have some pretty cool deals that I want to make you aware of. They have a Sig Sauer M400 Rose. Ah, the rose is but a rose is but a rose. Designed for women and inspired by empowerment. It’s a modern AR platform with a perfect balance of control, ergonomics, and performance. So, you want to check out that Sig Sauer M400 rose. They also have a Marlin 1895CB, a true lever-action classic, chambered in .45-70, built for tradition and trusted for generations. And by the way, the 1895 in .45-70 in the guide gun version, is the gun that both Teddy and I have bear hunted with, and one of them saved my life from a bear that actually charged me in the blind. So, I can vouch for Marlin .45-70s as being an excellent firearm, and WeShoot happens to have the 1895CB there for you to see and purchase.

Evan Nappen 29:11
They also have a beautiful engraved Colt Python. That’s an American icon of a revolver. It has elegant engraving and blending craftsmanship and performance like no other revolver. They have a Juliana & Vaulttek Lifepod Safes, right out on the Jersey Shore. Juliana shows why these weather-resistant, biometric, and ultra-secure safes are built for adventure and everyday peace of mind. So, you can see all these things and more at WeShoot. Check them out online at weshootUSA.com. I’m looking at that nice 1895. Wow. It’s got a nice laminate stock. It’s got a wide loop lever, you know, the big loop for a glove on the lever. It’s a beaut. I love that gun, don’t you love yours, Teddy?

Teddy Nappen 30:04 I do.

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Evan Nappen 30:04
You know the Marlin. They have the guide gun, too, there. They have the guide gun with the big loop in .45-70 that is the gun. And man, with that .45-70, you can get some ammo that is really hard hitting, like the Garrett loads. Those Garrett .45-70s or Buffalo boars. Man, they’ll take down anything on the planet. As a matter of fact, I think they’ve taken the Big Five in Africa with the Garrett load in the .45-70 in the super hard cast. That is like a freight train coming out of there, man. Which is why? What movie in Jurassic Park? And who was it that had the Marlin guide gun in .45-70 for shooting dinosaurs?

Teddy Nappen 30:51
It was Jurassic World with Chris Pratt while he was on his motorcycle.

Evan Nappen 30:55
Hey, you got to give Chris Pratt credit, because that’s the gun I would choose, too. With the Garrett loads. If you got to face a dinosaur, that’s a great gun to pick. No question about it. So, you know you can do bears and anything else you’re hunting. It’ll take it down with ease and really do the job. So, check it out at weshootusa.com.

Evan Nappen 31:23
Now let me shamelessly promote my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. Everybody needs it. If you want a Nappen book, look, I use my own book all the time. So, I can tell you, as a user of my book, you need this book. This book is the source, the reference book. I set it up so that it’s all question and answer on 120 topics with all the laws in the back. When you get the book, scan the QR code on the front, and get the access to the archives, where you have all the updates. Download the 2025 Comprehensive Update. You’ll be totally current anytime there are changes. I let folks know for free. So, make sure you do that. Get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law. You can go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen com. You’ll see the big orange book there, just click it and you will be able to be a proud owner of the famous New Jersey gun law book. So, Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks?

Teddy Nappen 32:37
Well, as you all know, Press Checks are always free, and I always try to keep a pulse on things. You know, just stay up on the news. I like to think it’s my way of like opening the morning paper. Got to see what’s going on, and stay on top of stuff. This came out of from, it was from CNN, but LifeZette. They covered the whole article. (https://www.lifezette.com/2025/09/cnn-panelist-suggests-democrats-could- use-national-guard-to-confiscate-your-guns-watch/) I don’t know if you ever heard of Jonah Goldberg. He was Editor in Chief from dispatch. A TDS Republican, and I put quotations around Republican. As you know.

Evan Nappen 33:15
And what is, for people, in case you don’t know, what is TDS? You and I know what it is.

Teddy Nappen 33:19 Trump Deranged Syndrome.

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Evan Nappen 33:21
Trump Derangement Syndrome. Ah, now that that should be in the DSM. Don’t you think that should be? That should be. Actually, that could be a disqualifier. Trump should look into making anyone that has TDS ineligible to buy a firearm. There. That’s something that would probably be reasonable, reasonable considering how crazy the TDS folks are and how they are constantly talking about wanting to kill the President. Not only that, rejoicing in any bad news about the President, even, and lately, fantasizing in his death. So, hey, sounds right for disqualifier for TDs to me. I don’t know, man, right?

Teddy Nappen 34:13
Give it time. We’ll see what can be made. So, he was on CNN, and they were talking about Trump putting out the National Guard into D.C. By the way, he has done a great job cracking down on crime in D.C. The numbers have dropped down to, I thought, you know, they have Charles Bronson walking the streets. They dropped so low. But Jonah Goldberg, in his TDS manner, decided to go off and say, listen to the Mayor of Chicago talk about the gun crisis in America. Well, what is to stop, and this is his argument, given the precedent that Donald Trump is setting, what is to stop Democrat Governor Pritzker or Governor Newsom, from saying, we have a gun crisis in America. Just as legitimate on the facts and argument as a crime crisis, and we’re going to send the National Guard into states and get the guns they have. There has to be standards. First off, ding, ding, ding, ding. Logical fallacy alert everybody. Logical fallacy. Mott-and-Bailey fallacy. Applying to.

Evan Nappen 35:27
The Mott-and-Bailey fallacy. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy) Ah, as we discussed, the Mott and Bailey is a form of logical fallacy and used in argument. Just to refresh people’s minds. Where you have a reasonable position and the unreasonable position, and you use the reasonable position to try to make the unreasonable position tenable.

Teddy Nappen 35:56
And clearly, you know, sending in the National Guard when there’s a massive crime wave to a city which, if it was named a state, which they keep pushing for, it would become the murder capital in our country. But, you know that’s not the point. But put aside all that, he makes this idea that there has to be standards, because otherwise they’re going to, the Dems will try to confiscate firearms. They keep trying to do that. And if they ever were to have the power, they would confiscate them. Do you know how I know? They said it.

Evan Nappen 36:31
Exactly. They said it, and at times they’ve done it when they could get away with it. That’s right. So, that is a non-starter. I mean, who’s kidding who? And by the way, as a Constitutional right, as opposed to these other things. This is a Constitutional right, and you’re talking about confiscation and seizure. You know what? You know in Germany during the Reich, they called expropriation of property. Those things will be highly disputed. So much so that my guess is, if they actually try it, people will be willing to give them their guns. But bullets first. I’m sure.

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Teddy Nappen 37:21
The number I would put it around, maybe like 3%.

Evan Nappen 37:25
Three percent. That’s where.

Teddy Nappen 37:26 They might say.

Evan Nappen 37:27
Well, that’s plenty, when you start counting what 3% is of all the gun owners out there. But it’s still absolutely within the realm, especially in places where they are not as dedicated and an active part of their life is firearms. So, you do have those areas in the U.S. where they’ve just become sheep over it, right?

Teddy Nappen 37:59
Yeah, and this kind of brought up a point. I kind of wanted to think on this. What would it be like if they actually tried it? If they actually, just for the sake of argument, Trump didn’t make it in, unfettered power to the Left, and they actually tried to do a gun confiscation. And funny enough, The Trace laid out the whole plan. (https://www.thetrace.org/2019/09/assault-weapon-buyback-policy-cost-estimates/) Kind of like Operation Sea Lion, Germany’s plan, because we’re talking about the Third Reich after they took Britain, what would they do to Britain? And they lay it out, because they were so sure. It’s by The Trace, the assault weapons buy back policy.

Evan Nappen 38:40
So, what is the plan that I’m sure they spent millions in a think tank to come up with? What are the steps that we would expect that they’ve laid out.

Teddy Nappen 38:50
To put things in perspective, they assess this is where they were breaking things down, where first the things they the one, number one issue that came into play as they addressed that, the hardest problem is the clear definition of an assault weapon.

Evan Nappen 39:07
Yes, they still can’t get past that. Firstly, they still have to deal with whatever the hell that is. Yeah.

Teddy Nappen 39:14
So, they cite to the original assault weapon ban. Then they cite to the 2019 attempt, where they list off the semi-automatic with detachable magazine with one offending feature versus two offending features. They list off all the, you know, the bells and whistles, forearm grip telephone, flash suppressor, going down.

Evan Nappen 39:35
All which have nothing to do with crime whatsoever. But why should that matter?

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Teddy Nappen 39:39
Yeah, or appears on list individual and just the usual stuff, but not even clearly defining what an assault weapon is. So, that was the first hurdle. Secondly, they tried to estimate the numbers. So, they put it between 3 million to 87 million would fall into the category of assault weapon, yeah, the assault firearms that would be confiscated. That’s their numbers, okay, whatever. And they gauged. Firstly, one of the hardest issues is the compliance issue. I love this. Compliance may be a challenge.

Evan Nappen 40:16
Oh, it might be, huh? Yeah, not sure about that.

Teddy Nappen 40:19
People may refuse to participate as New Zealand. They always point to Australia and New Zealand. Keep that in mind. Describe compliance rates were unclear at best, low at worst. A risk American legislators, too, would have to contend with. In recent years, the states of Connecticut, New York, and California have passed laws mandating assault weapon owners register their firearms. Keep that in mind, folks. Each has faced extremely low compliance rates. Reportedly, 15% in Connecticut, 5% in New York and California actually comply with the registration process.

Evan Nappen 41:00
Sure. We don’t like registration, because we know the four words right? Legislation, Registration, Confiscation and then Extermination. So, we don’t want to fall for that trap.

Teddy Nappen 41:10
Well, funny enough, they’re laying out the trap that it takes the registration to do the confiscation. That’s the sort of plan.

Evan Nappen 41:16
Right it is. It’s the intermittent step there, and the immediate step that we have to always be on guard for.

Teddy Nappen 41:23
Yeah. And the other thing they were leaning on heavily is that they would need local compliance. Vote locally, folks. That is how they do it. They’ll go to sheriffs, and they go to the lower tier to get people in these communities. If you notice, we actually talked about this.

Evan Nappen 41:41
Except many sheriffs are not going to want anything to do with it at all.

Teddy Nappen 41:48
Yeah, yeah, that is the other fact. And by the way, if anyone ever tells you, the Dems are not trying to take away your guns, they are. You know why? They said it in 2020 during the Democrat primary.

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Evan Nappen 42:03
Right! They did. They’ve admitted to it. They’ve said it more than once, multiple times. That is their ultimate goal.

Teddy Nappen 42:10 Yeah, beta or war.

Evan Nappen 42:11
Unless you’re trans, unless you’re trans.

Teddy Nappen 42:14
Unless you’re trans, of course. They always got to make an exception for peak victimhood. Anyways.

Evan Nappen 42:19
Or if you’re an illegal alien. Those are the only exceptions for gun ownership that they’ll allow.

Teddy Nappen 42:27 Criminals and trans.

Evan Nappen 42:29 Yep.

Teddy Nappen 42:29
That’s right, how it goes. But the Beto O’Rourke campaign had said they would do a buyback program, which they’d Institute under the 2019 assault weapon ban, covering all forms of high capacity magazine accessories as well. They would determine the compensation between $200 to $1,000. Isn’t that generous?

Evan Nappen 42:52
Hmmm. Oh, a whole $1,000? Wow.

Teddy Nappen 42:55
Or would use an independent commission to determine the market value. Those who refused to comply would be fined. Oh, isn’t that nice? And you had Biden, who was all for a national buyback program. They always say, buy back.

Evan Nappen 43:12
Yeah, what are they thinking? They’re not buying back anything.

Teddy Nappen 43:15 They’re stealing.

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Evan Nappen 43:17
They are stealing it and making forced forfeiture, expropriation of your property. Actually, though, I do know one person who did do a buyback where it truly was a buyback. He had bought guns at a police auction, and then at a buyback, sold them back to the police at a profit. So, that was the only time I ever heard of was truly a buyback. And then I talked to this person, he was able to buy them again from the police auction. So, he did a buy, a buy back, and then bought back from the buyback his guns. So, that guy’s a champion. He gets an award for doing that.

Teddy Nappen 44:04
Yeah, what also is very disgusting. So, they also cite to Eric Swalwell. They basically said, oh, I got my mandatory buyback panel. I have mine. You had all of them just saying absolutely at Cory Booker, Biden, all of them just saying, absolutely mandatory gun buyback for assault firearms, absolutely. But this is the scary part. This is the very scary part. They said, how would it be implemented? Well, it’s already proof in concept. Cut to 2018 with the bump stocks, where the agents, they’re sending out their minions to the residents.

Evan Nappen 44:41
Oh, yeah. They’ve done it on force reset triggers. They’ve done it on fuel filters which they believe are silencers or suppressors. Yeah, no, no, that. That is definitely an M.O., and Biden was pretty aggressive on those fronts. And absolutely, that’s what you would see.

Teddy Nappen 45:00
Yeah, it even says the crack down on bump stocks did not include a buyback, but provided a road map on how the Federal government might put a dollar figure onto the other steps. Basically explaining, we’re going to use guns to come to your property and take your firearms. Amazing.

Evan Nappen 45:19
Well, there’s always what is BATF, Teddy. The BATF stands for Bury All Thy Firearms. So, if it ever comes down to the confiscation, just remember BATF.

Teddy Nappen 45:34 Yeah.

Evan Nappen 45:36
Better than a boating accident. Let’s face it.

Teddy Nappen 45:38
Yeah. And the other thing too, with Australia that had the, you know, they did their confiscation. By the way, there’s, I think there’s a million other firearms still in circulation in Australia. It’s just shows. There is no proof in concept. This is what they would do, unfetter.

Evan Nappen 45:55
They’re not about that. They just want to go after us because they hate us. They hate firearms, and in the way that they have TDS, they also have GDS, you know, Gun Derangement Syndrome. They focus

Page – 13 – of 14

on objects, focus on whatever it is that gets the emotional hatred. That’s where you see them, and this is their agenda. Well, the flight will continue.

Evan Nappen 46:26
Let me now talk about our GOFU segment, and that is where we discuss Gun Owner Fuck Ups. The reason we talk about this is because these are expensive lessons individuals have learned that you get to learn for free. These are warnings, because these come from actual cases that Teddy and I are dealing with all the time in the practice. Today’s GOFU is “falsification”. And let me just tell you. When you fill out a gun application, do not give wrong answers. You have to make sure that you understand the question and that you’re giving the proper answer. Because if you give the wrong answer, not only is it a basis to deny your firearm permit, but it is also the basis to criminally charge you with lying on the form, with falsifying. You may say, oh, I didn’t remember, or I didn’t know, or I forgot, or I didn’t understand. And essentially those excuses will fall flat because New Jersey, particularly under the case law in New Jersey, it’s virtually, virtually a strict liability type problem.

Evan Nappen 47:56
So, if you are filling out a gun form and you have questions, talk to an attorney that knows gun law and can help you put the correct answer down. You do not want to have a falsification that will then have the ability to escalate. Let’s say, you are a firearms ID card holder and you apply for a pistol purchase permit, and then you apply for your carry permit, and for some reason, on your carry application, you put a wrong answer down. Well, it’s the same licensing criteria for all three licenses. Under N.J.S. 2C:58-3.c., it’s the same criteria for all three licenses. There are other additional requirements for getting a carry permit, but the criteria is identical. Well, if you become denied on your carry, then the next thing they’re going to do is file to take away your firearms ID card, your handgun purchase permits, and then attempt to forfeit and steal all your guns. So, be very, very careful. Do not do a GOFU on answering the forms. Take it very seriously. Be very careful. Read the questions thoroughly and always tell the truth.

Evan Nappen 49:22
This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 49:33
Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Page – 14 – of 14

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E254_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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