Episode 245- Important Gun Law Updates Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 245 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS

New Jersey gun laws, gun rights, legislative battle, gun bills, summer recess, gun possession penalties, National Firearms Act, Hearing Protection Act, suppressors, short barrel rifles, constitutionality challenge, gun permit denials, institutionalized racism, gun rights suppression, Second Amendment.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:19
and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I have some important updates to let our beloved listeners know about, both state and federal. As you know, we’ve been deep in the fight in New Jersey over the absurd next batch of gun rights oppression being pushed by Murphy and the Democrats, and we’ve reviewed on the show just how serious and awful these bills are. Well, I actually have some good news to report, at least good news for now, and that is that those gun bills have been stalled as the New Jersey legislature has entered summer recess. So, folks, your important work of contacting legislators, of belonging to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, and responding to the emails. By clicking the buttons and letting the legislators know and making the phone calls, the pressure has been effective. We are stalling this.

Evan Nappen 01:27
Now, of course, it doesn’t kill it. They’ll be back after the recess, and the fight continues because our liberty requires eternal vigilance, as has often been stated. And it’s true, but we can take a moment to be thankful that our efforts have, at the moment, paid off in delaying these atrocities from being placed into law, and that includes the Gulag bills. It also includes the raising of gun possession penalties to the equivalent of murder charges. It includes making a gun accident a felony, a universal felony, virtual and then subjecting you to the Gulag on top of that, etc. The whole package of horrible oppression has been stalled. So, keep up the good work and stay tuned for more updates on the New Jersey battlefront as the fight continues.

Teddy Nappen 02:34 One might.

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Evan Nappen 02:35 Let me give you.

Teddy Nappen 02:36
One might recommend we should endeavor to persevere.

Evan Nappen 02:39
Yeah, yeah, endeavor to persevere, as stated on the famous or in the famous Clint Eastwood movie. But our perseverance is critical to the protection of our rights. I don’t know if at some point we’ll have to take the next steps that the Native Americans took in that movie. But anyway, until then, the fight is on. So, this is what we have to do at the moment. We’re doing good work, and it’s paying off. Make sure that you’re a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. That’s ANJRPC.org. They are the state gun rights group, our umbrella organization of gun clubs throughout New Jersey. And as an individual member, you’ll be sent the email alerts as to the shenanigans taking place in Trenton, and you’ll be provided with action that you can very easily take to make a difference. You can fight. You’re not powerless. Join the Association. There’s power in numbers, and you can make a big difference. Please make sure you belong to ANJRPC. You’ll be glad you did, and you’ll know that you’re part of the solution and the great gun rights defender group of New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 04:11
Now let’s switch to federal law. So, you may have been following the big, beautiful bill, and we’ve talked about how there was efforts to relieve us of the oppression, since 1934, under the National Firearms Act (NFA). The bill, if you follow the big, beautiful bill, started in the House in which there was the HPA, the Hearing Protection Act, was put forward because the NFA is a tax law. The National Firearms Act is based in the power of taxation. The original house bill removed the $200 tax, but we wanted it to go further. In the Senate, the Senate bill not only removed the tax and attacked the NFA on silencers, but also included SBRs, short barrel rifles, SBSs, short barrel shotguns and AOW, any other weapons. Not only eliminating the taxes, but also eliminating and repealing those laws themselves.

Evan Nappen 05:32
The Senate version, though passed, was then subject to what is called the “Byrd Bath”. The “Byrd Bath” is where a single unelected bureaucrat known as the Parliamentarian, who has been in that position for over a decade and is a Democrat, big shock, removed from the Senate bill the NFA provisions on the SHORT (Stop Harassing Owners of Rifles Today) Act, which is the SBRs, SBSs, and AOW law and the suppressor laws. The Parliamentarian removed it, saying that it exceeded dealing with taxation, which is a crock of garbage. But, nonetheless, the Senate went back and got an amendment through before they passed their final version that at least removed all the taxes, the $200 taxes and other taxes. All taxes have been reduced to zero for suppressors and SBRs and SBSs and AOWs. Even though the registration paperwork component of the NFA was not repealed, the taxes themselves were eliminated. This is the first time that the National Firearms Act has taken a hit or has been subject to any reform that helps restore gun rights. It’s the removal of a tax on our Second Amendment rights. It is progress.

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Evan Nappen 07:13
Now, look, I wanted the whole thing to go. I’m sure you did, too, but I’m glad to see progress. We lost our rights incrementally. We are going to regain them incrementally. Every step forward is a step forward, and there’s more to it than that. I just received a notice that the Firearm Policy Coalition and the NRA and I believe GOA, as well. But the gun groups, the American Suppressor Association, all right, they’ve joined in attacking, challenging the constitutionality of the NFA. (FirearmsPolicy.org) And according to the FPC, which does great work nationally in bringing court challenges, as well, those other fine organizations do in this. (https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-coalition-of-pro-2a-orgs-to-file- nfa-lawsuit) It notes that quote and I’m going to read from the FPC release, when President Trump signs the one big, beautiful bill which he should have signed by the time you hear this podcast, because it has passed the Senate, and we’re very pleased about that, which will eliminate the excise tax on short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns and AOWs, he will have delivered the biggest blow to the National Firearm Act since its passage nearly a century ago. We thank President Trump for his leadership and every member of Congress who fought for law-abiding gunowners throughout the reconciliation process. And I second those thanks.

Evan Nappen 08:56
It goes on further to say, by eliminating the excise tax on these NFA items, the one big, beautiful bill will not only lift the heavy burden of an unconstitutional tax on the backs of hardworking Americans, it will serve as a critical step forward toward our ultimate goal of dismantling the NFA once and for all. But there’s much work yet to be done, and while we continue to fight for the total legislative elimination of the NFA, our organizations are proud to stand together in a quote. I’m quoting. I’m putting the quotes. They didn’t have the quotes, but I’m putting the quotes. “. . . new strategic lawsuit to challenge the constitutionality of the NFA in Federal Court.”

Evan Nappen 09:42
So, how do I interpret that? I interpret that, and I haven’t read the lawsuit. I’m just speculating. But I think with good basis that, because there’s an elimination of the tax, how can the paperwork requirement still be valid when there is no more tax? Because, keep in mind, case law has upheld the NFA as being a lawful exercise of the Federal Government’s power of taxation. The NFA is not based on the power of interstate commerce. The 1968 Gun Control Act utilizes interstate commerce power as its basis for that federal law, but the National Firearms Act was enacted based on taxation. It’s the reason why ATF was in the Treasury Department, because it was a tax bill. The Federal Government’s power to enact it was upheld by the court because it was a tax, and now the tax is eliminated. So, the question is, how is that now a proper exercise of government power of taxation when there is no tax? This is a fascinating issue, and I’m sure they’ll raise the straight Second Amendment issues as well, but this also has a constitutional dimension based on Federal Government power to enact laws.

Evan Nappen 11:11
Remember, the Federal Government is limited. Believe it or not. You may be shocked to know that, but it is limited. It has to pass its laws based on federal powers that the Constitution grants it. Those powers are limited to, essentially, military power, taxation power, interstate commerce power, which is quite broad, but not what the NFA is based on, and let’s say, grant and aid with funding and all that jazz. where they take away money and give money and all that. So, those are essentially the powers that we

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see, and those are the things that have been exercised by the Government. For example, in building the Tennessee Valley Authority, the TVA, during and after the depression, it was based on the military power, believe it or not. That’s how the Government rationalized and legitimized their exercise of power to do the Tennessee Valley Authority, because it was necessary to have power so that we could fight the wars and battles and keep our military strong.

Evan Nappen 12:20
So, it has to fall under a federal power. Why? How do we have the interstate roads that we all enjoy driving on? What was the Federal Government’s power to build interstate roads? I’ll tell you, military power. Because under Eisenhower, we needed the interstates so that we could quickly move our vehicles from one place, our military equipment and vehicles, from one place in America to another. What was the basis for the NFA? The power of taxation, and those taxes have now been eliminated. This is exciting to see what we may see come about from these challenges.

Teddy Nappen 13:06
I’d be kind of curious. Has there have been, what would be like, has there been a time where they’ve where the tax was ever removed on something, but still had the regulation? Where they could argue, well, it’s not being paid. So, what is the point of the regulation? Has it been?

Evan Nappen 13:21
You know, I’m not aware of any, because I haven’t researched the tax case element that you raised. But we’ve seen in other aspects of enforcement of laws and laws proceeding if there, for example, is no funding appropriated by Congress. Now, granted that’s funding, not taxation. But if there’s no funding, then the law is considered dead. For example, the Relief from Disabilities that we’ve discussed. What happened with Schumer’s gun rights suppression bill there, where he stopped folks from getting their rights restored for over 30 years? He defunded and said no money can be spent. And the Supreme Court said, well, if no money can be spent, even though the law is on the books, it doesn’t matter. You can’t seek its relief. Well, if that kind of logic applies, at least the argument of that logic there, how can a law be enforced where the money is no longer required, especially when it’s based on a power of taxation? But, Teddy, I don’t know, because I haven’t researched that. But I bet these cases, this lawsuit, is going to have a full explanation of those very questions, and hopefully we’ll see examples. Let me also.

Teddy Nappen 14:42
I will say just for spit balling. I know, there are things that are exempt from taxation. Like, I remember in what was it? I think it was like the Sopranos, where it was the Indian reservations. They had exemptions from taxes. So, one of those would be ways of pointing to, like, is that required of regulation?

Evan Nappen 15:02
Well, this is going to be part of what I believe is their strategic approach here, with a new strategic approach. And I wouldn’t be surprised if that is, in fact, the new strategy. But I’m excited to see when it actually gets filed. Hey, let me point out, and this is from our good friend, John Petrolino, who does great writing. He has an article here, the “Bill Introduced in N.J. to Force Reporting on Permitting Bias.”

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(https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2025/07/01/bill-introduced-in-nj-to-force-reporting-on- permitting-bias-n1229123)John points out that this bill was introduced in New Jersey, and he’s been really doing great writing on this subject. He reported back in May of 2024, with respect to black applicants. This is right from his article. For permits to carry in the Garden State, black applicants are denied more than double white counterparts. Then he points out that a bias watchdog group, Rise Against Hate, expanded that reporting, and when the data was normalized, they found that blacks were denied at a rate of 10 times more than whites.

Evan Nappen 16:15
So, this bill, A5964, has been introduced by Assemblywoman Dawn Fantasia and Assemblyman Robert Auth. The bill is to require the Attorney General to compile and publicly report certain statistics pertaining to permits to carry a handgun and firearm purchaser ID cards. That is great news. We need to call out the institutionalized racism that comes with gun rights suppression. But I would add one thing, and this, apparently, it is really a great idea behind this bill, but there’s something I would suggest adding to this bill. They’re going to be looking at denials of applications and that is absolutely something that needs to be looked at. But one of the other things critical to be looked at.

Evan Nappen 17:02
In addition to denials are the outcomes in the courts. When appeals of denials are filed, every county has its so-called gun judge, where these gun license appeals are held in court, and there you see further institutionalized racism. And I can guarantee you a wide disparity of results in the various county courts. They need to compile the statistics, county by county, and judge by judge, naming names of the appeals and their results. Especially the appeals related to “public health, safety, and welfare”, which is, of course, the all inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause that is particularly used to push the institutionalized racism and unjustly and unfairly and arbitrarily deny and suppress Second Amendment rights. So, to those wonderful sponsors who have gone forward with this bill, and I thank them for that, please add in statistical compilation on the county courts and the results of appeals of carry license denials and firearm and pistol purchase permit denials. But, again, we proceed incrementally with regaining our rights, and I’m glad to see these incremental positive steps.

Evan Nappen 18:30
I’d like to give a quick note about North Carolina. Unfortunately, the legislature there did the right thing and passed constitutional carry where they would have joined the majority of American States, over 70% of the land mass already, which is constitutional carry. But, of course, their Democrat Governor vetoed Constitutional carry. It’s always the Democrats stepping in and stopping further liberty. I hope North Carolinians what’s going on, and they put a Governor in there that respects Second Amendment rights and is looking to expand liberty instead of denying it. It seems like that will have a tough road in the large number of votes required to override the veto. It looks like their best bet is to get rid of the Democrat Governor. And that’s an update on North Carolina.

Teddy Nappen 19:32
Trump won. I think Trump won North Carolina, too. So, are the guys already ruining his chances for re election?

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Evan Nappen 19:41
I hear you, man. I hear you. Let me also mention our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range at Lakewood, New Jersey. It’s the place where both Teddy and I shoot and where we got our certifications. It is a wonderful range. We love WeShoot. We love the people there, and we love to shoot there. I would highly recommend that you check out WeShoot. You can go to their website at weshootusa.com. WeShoot is not only a great range and have great staff and great training and offer you everything you need there, right there, conveniently off the Parkway right there in Lakewood. But they also have a great pro shop, a great gun shop, and they offer bargains and deals all the time.

Evan Nappen 20:30
Let me just tell you some of the highlights of what WeShoot is offering now. They’re offering an M&P9 M 2.0 Metal. So, that’s the all-metal frame Smith &Wesson, and it is built like a tank. They also have the Kimber Mako R7 OI Tack Pack. It’s optics-included, built for carry, and ready right out of the box. Lightweight, compact and pure Kimber quality. And they have the SIG P365 Rose, designed in collaboration with Lena Miculek. This stunning carry piece blends beauty, precision and confidence. A true EDC gem for those who carry with purpose. Don’t forget at WeShoot, you can see Shannon Leo. She is back showing off the ultra-stylish PackN Heat Pistol Bags, where function meets fashion for the range or your everyday adventures. So, check out Shannon Leo and those PackN Heat pistol bags. They’re really cool, and I think you’ll like seeing them and her. They have great stuff going on at WeShoot. Make sure you check out weshootusa, and check out the great photos that they have. Professional top of the line at their website at weshootusa.com.

Evan Nappen 21:55
Let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. You need to stay safe. You need to stay protected. You need to stay knowledgeable. Make sure you have a copy of my book. It’s 120 topics, all in a question-and-answer format, and it will help you navigate the very treacherous waters of New Jersey gun law. You can go to EvanNappen.com EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book there. Click on it. You’ll have it in a matter of days. And when you get the book, scan the QR code on the front, and you will be able to subscribe for free to my private database. Subscribers will receive email updates when the laws change and when we win cases. You’re going to be able to access the archives and immediately download the 2025 Comprehensive Update that includes a chapter that is dedicated to explaining sensitive places, a standalone chapter as to where you can and cannot carry. Hey, Teddy, tell us about Press Checks.

Teddy Nappen 23:01
Yes. As we know, Press Checks are always free. And I wanted to kind of commemorate this one, because I think the episode is going to be airing right after fourth of July. As a Happy Fourth of July segment, I wanted to kind of do a quick question. What would be President Donald Trump’s carry gun? And it was an idea. Because, first of all, he can’t possess firearms right now until he gets his record cleared.

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Evan Nappen 23:34
I think he should have a solid gold Desert Eagle 50 that has been signed by Bibi Netanyahu because it’s, of course, made by Israeli, you know, made in Israel, or made by the Israeli company. So, there you go. I think that would be great. And he could call it his personal B2. What do you think of that?

Teddy Nappen 24:04
That’d be pretty funny. I was playing around with like, I remember, I think it was NRA, or one of the others. It was Friends of the NRA, where they did the .45 1911 that they did in honor of Trump. If I recall.

Evan Nappen 24:18
As you know, Teddy, I have collected Trump guns. So, you know, I have an Auto Ordinance Thompson, that is all Trump. .45 for Trump. It’s really cool. I have 1911s honoring Trump, and Glocks honoring Trump. And recently, I got a Bond (Arms) Derringer honoring Trump. The Trump guns are a lot of fun to collect, and you know that Trump guns will always be very valuable. So, those are guns honoring Trump. But I don’t know if Trump would necessarily carry a Trump gun, but he might, you never know. But I think it’s gonna have to be pretty, and it’s gonna have to have some gold in it. Man, it’s got to have gold to be Trumpian, right? Because it’s like golden age and the golden dome, and he’s making America gold. So,this is the thing for him.

Teddy Nappen 25:11
Well, it’s actually pretty funny. I was doing a little research, and I came across this great article. It broke down the Presidents and their carries, like all of them that had like every single one of them. And funny enough, in September 2023 from Duke Center for Firearm Law, it was written by Andrew Willinger. (https://firearmslaw.duke.edu/2024/01/presidential-firearms-part-i) (https://firearmslaw.duke.edu/2024/02/presidential-firearms-part-ii) Apparently Trump was at a South Carolina gun shop and was perusing the firearms to which the media tried to jump on it and say he bought a gun, even though he was currently indicted. One of the things they were circling around is he was looking at the Glocks in particular as one of the things he wanted.

Evan Nappen 25:58
Well, they did make a Trump Glock, you know. They did make one, I saw, not that Glock necessarily, I don’t if it was necessarily authorized by them or not. But I did see Glocks engraved, laser engraved, for Trump. And in fact, I have one of them in my collection. So, it’s pretty cool. But you see, as a convicted felon, this is like insanity, right? That he’s even a convicted felon. That’s got to get tossed on appeal, that BS conviction. But here’s the deal. It does say on a 4473, if you’re under indictment, you cannot acquire a firearm while under indictment. But, of course, I don’t know why President Trump can’t pardon himself or have the justice department do a Relief from Disabilities for himself even, and get a gun. I mean, let’s face it. It’s pretty absurd when the President of the United States is somehow prohibited from having a handgun, but he can launch nuclear weapons. Okay? I mean, it’s about the height of absurdity there.

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Teddy Nappen 27:00
Oh, don’t worry, it’ll get cleared up. But I was also pretty funny. It said currently, Joe Biden has said he owns at least one shotgun, which,

Evan Nappen 27:09
Yeah, well, he’s the one that gives the wonderful advice of just fire two shots

Teddy Nappen 27:14 in the backyard.

Evan Nappen 27:16
What an idiot. What a moron. Do not just fire two shots out your back door or whatever. Don’t do it. Do not do that. I mean, basically anything Biden says or does, just don’t listen to the guy. He has no clue from you know, you can’t own a cannon. Oh yes, you can. To firing two shots. This guy talks about guns. He has zero knowledge about guns, as well as just about everything else. So, it’s just unbelievable. Actually, I have a Biden gun. I have a Biden gun, but it’s a gun that mocks Biden. It was a Rossi, I think .22 that actually mocked Biden. I said, Okay, that is sort of almost a Trump gun, because it’s mocking Biden. So, I thought that was pretty cool.

Teddy Nappen 28:04
Yeah, so, I was kind of going through this whole tour of looking at different presidents and their carries, and funny enough, from the American Riflemen, it was by Philip Reifer, the senior curator at the NRA Museum. (https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-guns-of-u-s-presidents/) He wrote up this whole article about the Presidents and their carries, which is to kind of give. I love General George Washington, from his 18th century Flintlock pistols that are currently on display, and they were later, this is really amazing, these pistols were then gifted from his descendant to Andrew Jackson. And now currently sit at Mount Vernon in Virginia, as well as his others were in West Point.

Evan Nappen 28:53
Well, Teddy, you’ve seen my exact reproduction of the George Washington flintlock. I have that hanging up in the man cave, right? Exact reproduction of what George Washington carried, and it’s a very cool gun. It’s a really very handsome Flintlock.

Teddy Nappen 29:13
Yeah. And what I also thought was interesting was Thomas. Now this is you everyone would assume, if you were to take a guess who had the largest gun collection as President? You would just, you know, knee jerk, you would say what? Theodore Roosevelt would probably be your first guess.

Evan Nappen 29:31 Right.

Teddy Nappen 29:31 Apparently, no. Thomas Jefferson.

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Evan Nappen 29:35 I believe it.

Teddy Nappen 29:36
He was the one who loved collecting.

Evan Nappen 29:39
Thomas Jefferson was officially a gun nut like us. I would love to have him on the show and we could talk guns and the Declaration of Independence and all kinds of cool stuff. He was definitely a gun guy. But how many guns did he have? Did you find out how many?

Teddy Nappen 29:39
So, it seemed like I couldn’t get an exact amount. It seemed to have been around over 50, but I couldn’t get.

Evan Nappen 30:03
All right. Good for TJ man.

Teddy Nappen 30:05
But this is the trick. When he was Minister of France, he hung out with the French gun maker named Honore Blanc, who demonstrated how guns could be made via manufacturing identical parts.

Evan Nappen 30:24 Eli Whitney of him.

Teddy Nappen 30:25
Well, funny enough. Jefferson brings this information and eventually brings it over to Eli Whitney to develop the first factory.

Evan Nappen 30:33
How did I guess that? Yeah, first factory.

Teddy Nappen 30:36
He was the one that pushed for the early manufacturing of firearms in the U.S. Thomas Jefferson.

Evan Nappen 30:42
And today, we take it for granted that, you know, our ARs are completely modular, interchangeable parts, all that kind of stuff. But it goes all the way back to someone had to think of it first, and it was really credited to the American innovation, to Eli Whitney. But I didn’t know that Eli Whitney was actually encouraged by a French gun maker and Thomas Jefferson. That’s very interesting.

Teddy Nappen 31:07
Yup, and kind of going over, as I just mentioned there, Andrew Jackson, who, by the way, was in 100 duels.

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Evan Nappen 31:15
Yeah, he was. Do not insult him or his wife, or you are a dead man. You are a dead man. Do not. Yeah, do not f with him. He’s right up there with yeah.

Teddy Nappen 31:28
What’s really messed up is that he used the pistols that were gifted by Lafayette to Washington to kill Charles Dickinson.

Evan Nappen 31:38
Oh, really? Did he? Well, dueling was a serious business, and, you know, honor was not taken lightly, man, so. But you know, the time of dueling, most of time in the code Duello, you didn’t end up in a duel. It was actually designed to avoid the duel and make amends. But if you got to the end of the line with the code, then there was no choice, and you were going to have a shootout. You know, that’s how it worked. So, the code Duello, but that’s very interesting. That’s very interesting about him actually using one of those firearms to take somebody’s life.

Teddy Nappen 32:21
And of course, I gotta mention Theodore Roosevelt, but this one, I thought, is really funny. The great grandson of General Grant gifted Theodore Roosevelt a one as a because he had a he gifted him collection. He knew of his interest in firearms. And actually gifted him like the collection, like some of Grant’s collection.

Evan Nappen 32:48 Wow.

Teddy Nappen 32:48
And including, as this is really what was later given to the NRA headquarters for one of Theodore Roosevelt’s nightstand guns, which was an FN Browning from 1899.

Evan Nappen 33:03
Oh, okay. So, that was one of the first semi-auto pocket pistols. That FN Browning and a gun variant of that was actually used to start World War One.

Teddy Nappen 33:21
Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, hopefully they enjoyed the sandwich shop.

Evan Nappen 33:26
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Well, you better explain why you said the sandwich shop. Some folks

Teddy Nappen 33:33
So, in Sarajevo, that was where the man assassinated the Archduke of Ferdinand.

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Evan Nappen 33:40
Now just wait a minute. Wait a minute. You actually went there and stood there. You have. You were really there, right? Tell me about it.

Teddy Nappen 33:50
Well, so, if you go there, what’s really messed up is they actually have a car of the Archduke Ferdinand. Where the car, where he was driving, and you drive up to where he was and you can stand. And they actually engraved into the stone where you could stand, and it was where you stood.

Evan Nappen 34:13
At the spot where the Archduke was bumped off.

Teddy Nappen 34:14
Yes, and so what happened was the assassin spent the entire day trying to get the Archduke, and couldn’t find him. So, he goes in the sandwich shop, and then he looks over and there’s the Archduke. He just runs out and shoots him. And that was it.

Evan Nappen 34:30
Sometimes, opportunity knocks, huh?

Teddy Nappen 34:33
Exactly. Unfortunately, the sandwich shop is gone, but there’s a wonderful museum dedicated to the whole incident. I saw their version. They don’t have the pistol, and I will say your FN is better than the museum’s.

Evan Nappen 34:47
My World War One starter pistol is better conditioned than the one in the museum, huh? Okay, well, it not only started World War One, but it also helped contribute to World War Two. And you know, all this coming to that moment in time there in Sarajevo at the famous bridge. Where you actually stood, pretty cool. So.

Teddy Nappen 35:13
I will say this one I liked a lot. Ronald Reagan. So, there’s this long debate. Supposedly he carried, what one report said from one of his aides was that he was, from a .38 that he had in his briefcase. However, there is a Times articles, an article. (https://time.com/3923183/ronald-reagan-gun/) It was the gun the president kept in his briefcase. It was written by, this is Time Staff, but supposedly it was a .380, sorry, a 1934 Walther PPK .380, which he bought when he was in Des Moines. And he kept that in his briefcase.

Evan Nappen 35:57
Des Moines, Iowa? Huh. That’s pretty interesting. That’s interesting that Reagan had a, was it? A PPK, you said.

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Teddy Nappen 36:09 PPK, Walther PPK. 380.

Evan Nappen 36:13
So, he was influenced by Ian Fleming and James Bond, I guess, you know.

Teddy Nappen 36:18
Yeah. And it was funny. He took that briefcase to the Soviet Union.

Evan Nappen 36:24 With his pistol?

Teddy Nappen 36:25
Yeah, that’s the theory. That’s what the reports say, which is, pretty funny.

Evan Nappen 36:30
I like that. Well, you know, Teddy, I have a gun from Senator Rudman, a Senator from New Hampshire. It was a gun that was his when he was serving as Attorney General. And that was a gun that he talks about in his book, that he kept in Washington, contrary to Washington’s gun ban. He did not give anything about that. He said he was going to have his gun, and this was his gun that he had there. Pretty cool.

Teddy Nappen 37:09
Yeah, I will end it for this then, because you mentioned New Hampshire. Franklin Pierce.

Evan Nappen 37:16
Ah, yes. President Pierce, favorite.

Teddy Nappen 37:21
He was gifted a Colt Model 1851 Navy percussion revolver from Sam Colt.

Evan Nappen 37:30
Nice. Samuel Colt presents.

Teddy Nappen 37:34
Yeah, here’s your revolver. It like by it was, it was an actual like, presented to him like.

Evan Nappen 37:41 That’s sweet.

Teddy Nappen 37:42
It’s amazing, to be handed by the man who invented the Colt revolver. That is crazy.

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Evan Nappen 37:48
Well, that is pretty cool. Well, history is. I love it. And, Teddy, I thank you for doing that special Fourth of July retrospective. We have here some important Ask Evan gun questions, and I think you’ll find these interesting. This is from Joe. Joe says, Hello, Evan. I want to thank you for providing a free source of real information for New Jersey gun owners. Your podcast is priceless. I do have a few questions. Are the Lehigh Xtreme Defender and the Speer Gold Dot G2 legal for carry outside the home in New Jersey? Okay, so, what is the deal with hollow points? Hollow nose, we’ve talked about it. I want to immediately just refer everybody to the State Police website, the FAQ on firearm information. (https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml) If you go to Question 20, the State Police say the following. The question says, I’m not a police officer. Are hollow points legal for me to possess? And the State Police say yes. According to N.J.S. 2C:39-3f, 2C:39-3(g)(2), and 2C:39-6f, they are legal to purchase and possess in your home or on land owned or possessed by you, at the gun range, or while traveling to and from such places. Hollow point ammunition is NOT legal for concealed carry in New Jersey. Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition.

Evan Nappen 39:46
So, we have the state police making it clear that rounds like the Hornaday Critical Defense that have a polymer filling, they are not covered by the law. According to the State Police. Police on their website, and they’re the ones empowered to give such advice that if you follow it and they’re proven wrong, you even have a legal defense called ignorance or mistake of law, which we’ve discussed on the show before. So, if you want to see the actual language in writing, there you have it.

Evan Nappen 40:14
Now here we have a question about some specific ammo. We’re talking about Lehigh Xtreme Defender. What is Lehigh Xtreme Defender? What type of bullet is it? And what it says right from the Lehigh here, it says right here. (https://lehighdefense.com/reloading-bullets/xtreme-defense.html) It’s called the Xtreme Penetrator. It uses in its design, what is essentially a monolithic bullet of solid copper that has cuts on the side of it. So, it acts as a penetrator, but it does not have a hollow cavity. The cuts are on the side. It’s not a cavity in the center. It’s not hollow in its nose. It just has a design on the nose, and is a solid copper, except where there are notches cut into the side for the bullet performance. I think, and given what the State Police say about having a hollow cavity, this is where we would argue that it does not have a hollow cavity. But, unfortunately, it’s not specifically named, and it’s not a polymer-filled bullet. So, I don’t think you want to be the test case, even though I believe we have a defense here. I would have to just lean against carrying those only because we have a bit of ambiguity here. So, we’re not as solid as we can be.

Evan Nappen 42:02
However, with the Speer Gold Dot G2, now that round is, and this is from Speer, talks about it. (https://www.speer.com/ammunition/gold-dot/) Their hollow point design has a shallow cavity in the nose of the bullet. However, it’s filled with what is called a durable elastomer. And what is an elastomer, you may ask? Well, if you look it up in the dictionary there, it’s a rubbery material composed of chain- like molecules or polymers that can recover their original shape after being stretched. Aha. So, we have

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a polymer type filling in the cavity that fits what the State Police say are not hollow nose bullets. So, there you go. You can pull that language yourself and read it.

Evan Nappen 43:06
Joe also asked, I want to add a new handgun to my newly acquired New Jersey Permit to Carry. Do I need to submit a form? If so, which one? Yes, the form (S.P.182a) is right on the State Police website (under “Forms to Download” – Permit to Carry). (https://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/forms.shtml)It’s there to add any guns you wish to carry. You don’t have to qualify specifically on any particular gun, and so it doesn’t matter. The CCARE tested only your core competency. Just file the form with any guns you wish to carry. It’s very simple. It’s right online. You can find that form right at the State Police website, pretty close to where you can find that FAQ on the State Police website.

Evan Nappen 43:44
And finally, three, if I have a gun in a locked case and secured in my vehicle, is there still a Duty to Disclose if I’m pulled over by an officer? Or does that only apply if it’s on my person? If you have a Permit to Carry, the Duty to Disclose applies whether you are carrying or transporting your gun. You still have a Duty to Disclose, which means, if you’re stopped or detained by law enforcement, you must immediately disclose that you are carrying or transporting your handgun, if you are a Permit to Carry holder. If you are not a Permit to Carry holder, then you do not have a Duty to Disclose. Only Permit to Carry holders have a Duty to Disclose. As a matter of fact, if you’re carrying illegally, you have no Duty to Disclose. But, if you have that carry permit, you have to disclose whether you’re carrying loaded on your person or whether you’re transporting unloaded in your vehicle. That Duty to Disclose is still present.

Evan Nappen 44:38
Now, we have one other question here from Anthony. Anthony is asking what does New Jersey mean by a semi-automatic version of a fully-automatic firearm? I’m specifically trying to buy a B&T tp9 pistol. It’s under a different model name than the B&T MP9. So, I was wondering if it counts as a semi- automatic version of a fully-automatic firearm. The answer to that is yes, it does. It does because the basis of it can be pretty easily demonstrated that it is that, in terms of that the tp9, that you have the what is the select fire version of the MP9. It’s difference being simply select fire where it can go full auto. And the problem here isn’t even just that. Because whether it is or isn’t, you can go to the Attorney General Guidelines, the guidelines we use to test compliancy for whether something is an assault firearm. People do not often speak about the section of the guidelines that talk about semi- automatic pistols.

Evan Nappen 45:53
So, this B&T is a semi-automatic pistol, and here’s what makes a semi-auto pistol compliant or not. It says under Section B., a semi-automatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. And this one does take a detachable magazine. And has at least two of the following. So, number one, an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the grip. Well, here that doesn’t apply because the magazine on the BT does, in fact, go in the grip. Two, a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer. It does have a threaded barrel. Three, a shroud that attaches to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits

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the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned. It has that. It has that on the gun. So, you now have two offending features, which would make it, under the AG Guidelines, an assault firearm. Then it further states, manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more. Well, I checked the weight, and the weight of the B&T is under that. It appears to be 46.3 ounces. But then it says a semi- automatic version of an automatic firearm. I think the State would make a pretty strong argument that it is, in fact, based on the one that is a select fire. But, even if that one is found that it isn’t, you still have the other two offending features. So, I’d watch out for the B&T. It’s not going to fly under the guidelines that control New Jersey’s assault firearm law at the moment.

Evan Nappen 47:33
Now, let me talk to you, folks about the segment of the show that we all want to know, and that’s the GOFU. That’s the Gun Owner Fuck Up. That’s where we discuss a mistake, or mistakes, made by gun owners that can be quite costly to them. You get to learn it for free, so you don’t make the mistake. So, here I have somebody who is making a series of GOFUs that could have been problematic, but it really gives a good springboard to understand. First is the person says they did a voluntary registration of a pre 1968 non-serialized .22 rifle. So, first of all, why do you voluntarily register anything? It’s voluntary. You don’t have to register. So, if it’s a voluntary registration, don’t go voluntarily registering anything. Now, you have put yourself on the radar. Luckily, this was done in the 1980s. So, it was done a long time ago. It doesn’t matter about that voluntary registration way back then, that’s all it is.

Evan Nappen 48:38
But then the person is worried now about the ghost gun laws kicking in because of the that not having a serial number. As you may recall, we took care of that issue with the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC.org) My good friend and colleague, Dan Schmutter, Scott Bach, and we were able to get the Attorney General to put out guidelines that said that pre198 guns are not covered by the non-serialized ghost gun law. So, it’s a safe gun with no serial number because of that. Remember, millions of guns were originally included, and the good work of our state Association and those that assisted there changed that, including yours truly.

Evan Nappen 49:18
Then the GOFU continues, because he talked about when the registration was done, he noticed there was a wrong model number put on the voluntary registration. Well, don’t worry about that, because that gun ended up getting, as further pointed out, transferred dealer to dealer to a relative in another state. Well, as long as it’s been transferred anyway, it’s a non-issue in New Jersey. It went through dealer to dealer. It’s now lawfully transferred. Putting a wrong model number accidentally way back doesn’t matter at this time, and even if it was intentionally wrong, if it was done way back, then the statute of limitations has long passed. Which would have been five years. So, there’s nothing to worry about.

Evan Nappen 50:02
But as you can see, the series of GOFUs here. If there was something that was a problem in terms of bringing yourself to the attention. Oh, and then I failed to tell you the last kicker, which was this person then emailed New Jersey State Police, asking whether anything they did there’s a problem. So, folks, please don’t do that. If you have issues or problems, talk to an attorney so it stays confidential. Luckily, there is no problem here. The statute of limitations has long run anyway. And the gun was not a

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problem under the ghost gun law anyway, and voluntary registration, luckily didn’t have any effect. And all those things, we can see how any one of these things could cause a problem and escalate to big problems. So, please don’t do GOFUs. If you have a question, talk to an attorney before you take any action. An attorney that knows gun law. Make sure you get the answer. Don’t speculate or guess or think you know what the law says, or think you’re doing right. New Jersey gun laws are notorious for being counter intuitive and for laying traps for the law-abiding citizen. Because what are they about? They’re about disenfranchisement of our rights. They are about suppressing our gun rights. They are about turning law- abiding citizens into criminals. So, that they can not only lose their gun rights, but also not vote. Don’t fall for it.

Evan Nappen 51:32
This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 51:43
Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

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Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E245_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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