Episode 242- Is Now the time to buy Ammo? Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Englishtown, permit fees, Second Amendment, New Jersey, gun lawyer, ammunition prices, ghost guns, gunsmithing, wellness check, gun confiscation, holster requirements, gun rights, NRA, gun legislation, firearm safety.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen

EvanNappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen.

EvanNappen 00:18
And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I came across a really interesting article about something that took place in Englishtown, New Jersey. And this article is done by our dear friend, John Petrolino for BearingArms, and you’ll be able to find it there. (https://bearingarms.com/john-petrolino/2025/06/12/nj- town-resolves-that-excessive-permitting-fees-are-unconstitutional-n1228911) This is really an amazing thing, because I’ve never, never, seen this before.

Teddy Nappen 00:52 Flea market opening up?

EvanNappen 00:53
No, well, the Englishtown flea market is still there, but I would not recommend it. It has changed tremendously from the old days when I used to go every weekend with my dad when I was a kid. As my father said, it became more and more of less and less, and I think that’s what you’re seeing now. The most incredible selection of less. So, anyway, Englishtown, though, the town of Englishtown, did something extraordinary. They actually took action to reduce the excessive permitting fees that are unconstitutional that New Jersey pushed through by Murphy. As you may know, when you apply for your carry permit in New Jersey, there’s a $200 fee for getting a permit to exercise your Constitutional right. And that is just outrageous. If we charged such a thing to vote, it would be a poll tax and would be unconstitutional. But somehow, an excessive $200 fee is fine and dandy, because, well, you know, it’s just the Second Amendment, right?

EvanNappen 02:22
So, this article goes on to explain that what Englishtown did, what the mayor, who deserves tremendous credit, and the town council, tremendous credit. Mayor Daniel Francisco and his council

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passed a resolution, and I’ll read you what it says. It’s very short and directly to the point. Whereas, pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4, applicants for permits to carry a handgun are required to pay an application fee in the amount of $200 of which $150 is retained by the municipality, and $50 is forward to the Superintendent of State Police. Whereas, the Borough of Englishtown recognizes that the statutory fee structure imposes financial burdens on applicants and wishes to ease that burden for residents by offering refunds of the Borough’s retained portion of the application fee, and whereas, the Borough has determined that is in the public interest to establish an administrative process for refunding $150 municipal share of the application fee upon appropriate documentation. Look at that. This town will refund its applicants $150 of the excessive fees that Murphy put through so that to exercise your Second Amendment right in Englishtown, to defend yourself and your loved ones, is only a $50 permit. A $50 fee that goes to the State Police. Wouldn’t it be nice to see the State Police refund their fee as well. But somehow, I don’t think we’re going to see that, but this is an excellent move.

EvanNappen 04:29
And, man, I’d love to see town after town in New Jersey create the refund practice that Englishtown has done. This should be something that everyone in your town should talk to your officials about refunding it, about not accepting the $150 fee. Apparently it passed four to one. And as Mayor Francisco says, this is about his council passing it, they should be applauded loudly for their fortitude and conviction. And I second that as well. Also, I’d like to point out that assisting in getting this through was, of course, many individuals in New Jersey that are active. National Second Amendment groups also showed up, including Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and the Second Amendment Foundation. Also, the New Jersey Firearms Owners Syndicate had great testimony by Joseph LoPorto and that made a major impact as well. The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs and the NRA were there, too. All showing their support. There was great unity here, and seeing this new movement that can be done town by town. So, great job to everyone who worked hard to see that go through, particularly their Mayor Francisco, who is a stand up guy for our rights.

Teddy Nappen 06:39
Actually, I’m just kind of curious. It seems like Englishtown is an extremely pro-gun town, for New Jersey of all places. But in your experience and time, it’s kind of like unbreakable, where you have the one guy who’s completely like unbreakable. You have the glass. Who’s the most anti-gun town? The one place is like, oh, God, this is bad.

EvanNappen 07:03
Well, I can tell you that I’ve seen, we’ve seen, many towns that are very bad, very anti-Second Amendment rights. They take their sweet time to the point of delaying and delaying and delaying. And I’ve also seen them act very harshly with applications creating, in effect, GOFUs. One of the towns was Jackson, by the way, Jackson, New Jersey. That literally, when somebody made an error on the application where they technically may have given the wrong answer, but really had misunderstanding which occurs, which occurs, and it’s arguably a GOFU, of course, to write the wrong answer, but we’ve had any number of criminal prosecutions for things that most of the towns in New Jersey would not criminally prosecute over an incorrect answer that was just an honest mistake on a gun application. Yet, we are representing any number of folks that got criminally charged out of there. So, they’re very, very harsh. Very harsh. You could, you know, take a view that, hey, you shouldn’t have given the wrong

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answer on the application. But, you know, when we see the big picture, we want to see discretion. Well, the discretion when someone’s trying to exercise what is a Constitutional right? Maybe those things should be considerations, but apparently, not there. Given the number of these cases that I’ve seen, and we have other towns that are troublesome, too, that delay. And sure, many of the listeners are familiar with their own town. But instead of, you know, criticizing these towns, which we’re always happy to point out, but it’s nice to actually see a town doing the right thing and standing up for the Second Amendment. And so that is refreshing, to say the least.

EvanNappen 09:18
Now, one of the things that we were wondering about, and something that you may be wondering about. Is now a good time to stock up on ammunition? And interestingly, there was an article in ZeroHedge, which often is focused on financial and other things, right? But ZeroHedge actually had an article called “Charts Signal: Time to Reload”. (https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/charts-signal- time-reload) This is by Tyler Durden, and Tyler points out, and it’s something that I think listeners here might not normally come upon is, how does the price of ammo? How is that going in terms of up and down? You might be able to talk about gas prices and other things, about whether it’s more or less. Yet, we can also do the same with ammunition. And here’s what’s really interesting. The author points out that during COVID, there was top dollar for 9 mm and .223. Yet, now today, the market has swung in the opposite direction. Over supply has pushed ammo prices back to early pandemic levels. And this is pretty cool. He raises the question, will these low prices be sustained? Of course, you know, in that consideration is possible trade wars and tariffs and uncertainty on primers and the materials needed to get them.

EvanNappen 11:17
In the article, he points out, with price comparison and graphs, of pricing from 2020 to 2025, and you can see just on 9 mm how high the price got in right there. From December 2020 to February 2021, the price per round was hitting right under eight cents per round. And now, the chart shows this decline down to what is two, believe it or not. Well, and this is, though, the graphing. I shouldn’t say cents. It’s about pricing. So, it’s gone from 8.8 to .2. So, there’s a significant dropping. You can see the chart here. There was not a price in terms of dollars and cents. It’s the price per round. And I highly encourage you to look at the graphs. And the same, if you look at .223, which was up above, almost 1.1, 1.1 almost 1.2 down now to .4, currently .4. Almost two thirds drop in price. Twenty-two, .22 long rifle available, and there was a drop, but not significantly. It is still, though, widely available. So, availability is out there. Twelve 12 gauge, again, a big curve going down from almost 7.5 all the way down to .3 or lower. 308, spiking at what is 1.5 going down to .7, you know, virtually cut in half. So, these are interesting things to look at in terms of ammo pricing. Now, although we still might say it’s not cheap, but it is substantially cheaper. And given what’s going on in the world and what may happen, because, you know, guns without ammo aren’t really useful. You may want to think about reloading now.

EvanNappen 14:01
If you are going to be reloading, you’re going to need a place to shoot. And I would highly recommend WeShoot in Lakewood. New Jersey. WeShoot is an indoor range. They are great folks. That’s where both Teddy and I go to shoot. Teddy, you had a comment prior. What were you going to say?

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Teddy Nappen 14:23
I was going to, well, I was going to say, Welcome to Mad Bullet. But I also was going to point out. I remember, I think it was under Obama in ’08, they were selling the .22s that were in those sealed containers or so?

EvanNappen 14:42
Yeah, those were cool. They were, like, nitrogen sealed containers, yeah? Nitrogen sealed to keep them super fresh. I haven’t seen them in a while. I haven’t seen them again.

Teddy Nappen 14:53
But I remember your telling me those were one heck of an investment, just along the line.

EvanNappen 14:59
Well, especially when at one point, .22s did go through the roof, when there was a shortage, a major shortage. So, look, that’s why you want to stock up. And then, of course, if you want to shoot, we gotta get back to, get back to the range, man. You’ve got to get to the range. Gotta go and shoot and stay in tune. And Teddy, as you and I often do, WeShoot is a great place to go. They offer certificates for getting your carry. As a matter of fact, Teddy and I were just talking about how folks need to make sure that your certificate does not expire if you’re going to reapply. Because they’re good for two years, but that’s it. If you need to renew, you don’t want to lose your ability to have your New Jersey carry be active with your ability to get a renewal. So, make sure that you have your current CCARE and that it is within that two-year period. If you need to get that course again, WeShoot offers it. They also have a great pro shop, and they have a fantastic staff. We love it there, and I’m sure you will, too. And you can go to weshootusa.com for more information. Check out their website. weshootusa.com.

EvanNappen 16:23
Additionally, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, which is out there fighting for our rights and helping to make a difference across the board. We’re proud to be have Association as one of the sponsors of our show. They are the premier gun rights group for New Jersey and the NRA affiliate for the state of New Jersey. So, it’s important that you belong. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t belong to other organizations as well. You should belong to as many as you can, but make sure you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle &Pistol Clubs, anjrpc.org. By joining this group and other groups for that matter, there is power in numbers, and the numbers make a difference. It’s how we get influence, and we have very important things coming up. Not only fights for legislation, but fights for who the next Governor is going to be, and fights taking place in court. All kinds of things where the eternal vigilance is required. The way to help manage that so you know that you’re part of the solution is to belong to your NRA state affiliate, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. To join, simply go to anjrpc.org, anjrpc.org, and sign up today. Be part of the solution, and you’ll be proud that you are.

EvanNappen 18:01
This is the time when I shamelessly plug my book New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is your indispensable guidebook to surviving in New Jersey as a gun owner. Everyone that has it, loves it, and it is the key resource that you will go back to over and over again. It’s 120 topics, all in a question-and-answer format. We will email you updates and let you know. When you get your

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book, scan the QR code right on the front and join for free to our private subscriber base. I’ll send you out email alerts to any new changes, and you get to access the archives and other updates that are already there, including the 2025 Comprehensive Update that is fully updated for 2025. There is a standalone chapter of “sensitive places”, where you can and can’t carry. All important things that you need to know. So, go to EvanNappen.com, that’s my website, EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book there,. Click it and make sure you get your copy today. Hey, Teddy, you have Press Checks. And as we know, Press Checks are free. What interesting Press Checks do you have for us?

Teddy Nappen 19:32
So, I always find it important to keep an eye on the anti-gunners and the gun rights suppressors, because you can always see where their focus is on. I know we touched on it prior from TheTrace where the Supreme Court upheld the Biden administration rule targeting unserialized, untraceable ghost guns from the article allowing federal authorities to regulate the sales of kits and parts used to assemble the weapons. (https://www.thetrace.org/2025/03/ghost-gun-kits-supreme-court-atf-biden/) By the way, if you ever get a Supreme Court case and the dissenting opinion is by (Clarence) Thomas and (Samuel) Alito, you know you’re in the wrong. Just saying. As they were arguing about the federal law allows ATF to regulate not only fully functioning firearms, but also weapons that are designated to function like guns or can easily convert them. And they then lead to how the ATF for tracing a surge from 2017 of 1,600 to more than 27,000 in 2023, of the available figures of the ghost guns.

Teddy Nappen 20:58
And this got me thinking, because you always talk about how Americans have been building guns since the founding of our country. Well, I wanted to touch on that and kind of think along those lines. What was it like living out in the colonial times? Like, if you needed a firearm, what was the idea of having to build your guns?

EvanNappen 21:23
You ordered it off Amazon.

Teddy Nappen 21:24 Well, of course.

EvanNappen 21:25
There were no gun laws then.

Teddy Nappen 21:27 Yes, of course.

EvanNappen 21:27
So, what did you discover about the colonial and pre-colonial days of guns?

Teddy Nappen 21:36
Well, to kind of start things off from the Colorado School of Gunsmithing. (https://schooloftrades.edu/the-history-of-gunsmithing/) By the way, this goes back to the very

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beginning of the gunsmithing trade, to the 12th century in China, where the right of firearm, which was just a stick with a barrel with a central boom stick. Then it moved over to Europe, and then Italy, where you had the early craftsmanship of barrels. Then in the Middle Ages, you actually saw the professionalism, which made, I love the idea of the gunsmithing guilds of the olden days, where you had,

EvanNappen 22:17
But these were individuals building guns.

Teddy Nappen 22:20
Yeah, right. Imagine that. And it actually was smart. You had the gunsmithing guilds actually beginning to form, particularly in Germany, where the first was grouped in 1463. The idea was they would have these gunsmiths near the armory, near places that are the towns where you could maintain all the firearms for them. And I think it was Henry the VIII who began asking leading gunsmiths to come to London to keep up the arsenals. So, you kind of see where the early craftsmanship, where there was no, oh, how could they allow such a thing of firearms? No, it’s pretty common for people to be building guns, such as was the trade.

EvanNappen 23:08 And encouraged.

Teddy Nappen 23:10
Yeah. And then we get to America, where the early stages, and I thought this was kind of cool. There’s a great article written up called, “Early American Gunsmithing: A Family Affair”. (https://www.claytoncramer.com/popular/GunmakingAFamilyAffair.html) Gunsmithing was very much like you kept it in the family, and it was a passed on trade. You essentially had to marry into gunsmithing at times where they would find.

EvanNappen 23:39
Well, it was a trade, right? It was a trade. So, yeah.

Teddy Nappen 23:43
Yeah, and just to give you a perspective. The Pennsylvania gunsmith, John Henry, where he would be building and buying parts for various assembly for gun locks and completing guns and building them up. They also had other early makers, they seem to have traced. They found Thomas Nash who settled in New Haven in 1640. He was not only a gunsmith, but also the colony armorer. He was ordered to keep the town muskets in his hands and to look to after them that they always been in good order and fit of service.

EvanNappen 24:24 That’s a good job to have.

Teddy Nappen 24:25

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I know, right? Make sure everyone’s armed. And he passed this down to his son. His first son, John Nash, became the first expert witness of firearm liability suit in 1645.

EvanNappen 24:41
Really? So, he was one of the first experts.

Teddy Nappen 24:43
Yeah, and you kind of see. Then, of course, the Hawken family.

EvanNappen 24:43 Oh, yeah!

Teddy Nappen 24:45
It included 15 gunsmiths. That’s one hell of a family.

EvanNappen 24:57
Yeah, and Robert Redford still had trouble getting a .50 cal one, didn’t he?

Teddy Nappen 25:02
I know. He found it on a frozen man who he fulfilled the last will and testament.

EvanNappen 25:07
Heh, that was a good deal. That was a good deal. You can’t beat finding the gun for free, frozen in the woods.

Teddy Nappen 25:15
Yeah, and it was very interesting where you see the early development of the gunsmithing trade. These guys built up such a reputation that later they had a point of where they would like start recruiting. And then they started ordering more and more. Like, hey, this guy’s gunsmithing, place an order. You got to get yourself a Hawken. And what later would lead to. I found from actually the Library of Congress. I highly recommend checking out these sources, because you’ve got to read these articles that they preserved in the Library of Congress. (https://guides.loc.gov/american-firearms/gunmakers/) They actually show the early developments and all these historical citations of early gunsmiths. Particularly, Henry Derringer, who began his business in Philadelphia. (https://guides.loc.gov/american- firearms/gunmakers/deringer) By 1810 he was producing flintlock rifles and government contracted muskets. And then, I love Remington.

EvanNappen 26:16
Of course, he made the famous pistol that was used by John Wilkes Booth to kill Lincoln, right?

EvanNappen 26:26
But it’s not the gun, it’s the person. And they were popular because they were pocket pistols that could be used for defense. And nowadays the name Derringer becomes synonymous with that type of handgun, but he was an individual maker, as you’re pointing out. All these folks were individual makers,

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manufacturing, and this is about as long lasting an American tradition as there is. Yet, now, they want to close down the ability for any individual to make a gun. It can only be a licensed corporation. Well, you know, the founding fathers wouldn’t have stood for that, and throughout most of American time, it would not have been acceptable. Yet here, somehow, today, they think they can just mandate that only a licensed corporation, you know, where they’re exerting the state and governmental control over what is necessary for the exercise of a Constitutional right. It’s pretty outrageous when you boil it down in that way, don’t you think?

Teddy Nappen 26:26 One might say.

Teddy Nappen 27:51
It actually serves a very important purpose to have many of these gunsmiths and traders currently. Just look toward George Washington, who established Springfield Armory. And do you know what they did? They went around the country recruiting gunsmiths who helped build up the armory. So, we should encourage and have more gunsmithing across the country, because we need them. The fact of the matter, like, if there ever comes a time we need more manufacturing and the ability for people to repair and have milling machines and ability.

EvanNappen 28:28
Guns keep us free, and our founding fathers knew it. But somehow, primarily the Democrats, seem to forget it all the time. Just look at it as a scourge instead of an insurance policy for our rights and our freedom. Well, you know, I have a letter here from Charles. Teddy, I want to thank you for talking about that very interesting topic, and it is definitely something to reflect upon. What America is all about and what our traditions are, and how they’re trying to change that and cost us our rights.

EvanNappen 29:09
But Charles here wrote an interesting letter. It says, good morning, Mr. Nappen, happy Monday. Great show this week, as usual. I was asked a question on pocket carry holsters and the legality of it. I’m on the road right now and unable to access your book. I don’t know where to begin to look for it in the link. No rush to your answer. I know you’re a busy man, or if you could share with us the answer. I’m happy to do that. So, here’s the deal. Pocket holsters for pocket carry are fine in New Jersey, because the holster has to be concealed and carried on your person. As long as a pocket holster covers the trigger guard and the body of the firearm, then that’s a fine holster. You can have a pocket carry if it’s on your person and the holster meets the requirements for a holster. Your holster does not have to be, you know, outside the waist or inside the pants. As long as the holster is meeting the criteria under the statute of enclosing the trigger guard and the main body of the firearm and holds it securely, then you’re covered. That’s why the pocket holster is fine for pocket carry, as long as it is in a holster.

EvanNappen 30:37
Now, what I would not recommend is just putting it in your pocket, because then we’re going to have to do all kinds of creative legal arguments that somehow your pocket is acting as a holster. Whereas, if you have a pocket holster, well that’s what it’s made to be. It is a holster that’s made for your pocket. So, we don’t want to see you become a GOFU by having the wrong type of holster. Many times, if you

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have certain holsters, you want to make sure that they perform properly and don’t fall out at inappropriate times and do not re-seal. We’ve actually had cases where a person thought they popped open the holster with Velcro, but it closed back on them. And then they ended up when drawing the gun, it caused an AD, an accidental discharge. What we call a problem as that can end up costing you your gun rights. So, beware of that. And you know, we call the ads a dingus, right? Don’t be a dingus. And that’s because of Jesse James. I told that story before about Jesse, who shot two of his fingers off, fooling around with his gun. He never used profanity, and when he shot his fingers off, he said, dingus. Now, if I shot my fingers off, I think I’d say something a little worse than dingus. But you know, his men, I think, fell off their horses laughing about it, and they ended up calling him dingus as a nickname, which I guess only his men could get away with. But don’t be a dingus. So, be very careful about your holster. You want to make sure you’re meeting the criteria under the law. These are important GOFUs that you don’t want to have a problem with.

EvanNappen 32:39
But I want to point out specifically this week’s GOFU. And, of course, the GOFU is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. These are lessons that other individuals have learned at great cost, and I want you to be able to learn them for free. One of the key GOFUs to be aware of is a so-called wellness check in New Jersey. Somebody thinks they’re helping you out and calling in a wellness check. Keep in mind that on the so- called wellness check, the police are going to come, and they’re going to check on you or somebody else in the house, because some do-gooder called. I often see that this leads to gun confiscation and the person being taken away for a mental evaluation. So, they’re not only seizing guns, they’re seizing the person. And then quite often, after the eval, which is often very short, often less than a day, less than an hour. I mean, whatever it is they get to. It’s short. Then they say, oh, you’re okay, and they let you go.

EvanNappen 33:06
Now you have to deal with getting your guns back, and there are many complications. First of all, New Jersey wants to get their hands on your guns, and they don’t want to give them back. They like to steal everybody’s guns. And then we have to deal with the issues of the mental health that got raised, and they’ll try to use that to revoke your licenses and keep your guns. So, this is a very dangerous situation in which easily a so-called wellness check can happen. And you’ve got to be very cautious about those things happening to you or someone else in your household. Because often they’ll take all the guns in the household, even the person who called about the wellness check. Now, look, I understand. If you have a serious issue and you have to weigh those things and do what’s right for you in terms of that, but at least do it knowing that you’re probably going to have to have a fight over your guns and your gun rights. We get those cases all the time.

EvanNappen 34:41
This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

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Speaker 2 34:56
Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

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Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E242_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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