Episode 239-The Big Beautiful and Silent Bill Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 239

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Gun Lawyer, Second Amendment, Hearing Protection Act, National Firearms Act, silencers,

reconciliation bill, taxation, filibuster, gun rights, suppressors, short barrel rifles, President Trump, gun

legislation, NRA, gun rights organizations.

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17

And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:19

And welcome to Gun Lawyer. President Trump is poised to deliver a first. He’s had many firsts, but this

is looking really good legislatively in the Congress. The reconciliation bill, the big, beautiful bill that

passed the House, has a very, very special provision for those folks that love and cherish our Second

Amendment rights. What we have is a repeal, essentially, of the federal law prohibiting silencers. I’ll use

the word prohibiting here, even though it’s technically possible to have a silencer. But basically, it’s

looked at as a federal ban on silencers and that is essentially what’s being repealed. It was attached to

the big, beautiful bill, which is a reconciliation bill, and the reason this is so important is that

reconciliation is one of the few areas where there is no cloture, no filibuster possible in the Senate. So,

the anti-Second Amendment rights, the gun rights suppressors and oppressors cannot get this bill killed

using filibuster or cloture, where you need to have 60 votes in order to get it out of the Senate. It’s

simple majorities in both houses.

Evan Nappen 02:16

This bill is very exciting. This law on silencers goes back to the 1934 National Firearms Act, and here

we are, all these years later, finally getting a repeal of that ridiculous law. The nomenclature, what we’re

calling it, is the HPA, that’s the Hearing Protection Act. And this is really great news. By removing

silencers out of the NFA, which we call suppressors today, we will be able to, throughout the country,

except, of course, in New Jersey and a few other states, because they have state bans on silencers.

But throughout Free America, the federal law will have been taken out by this Act, and suppressors will

be able to be easily possessed in the same manner that you possess firearms in Free America. So, this

is extremely exciting.

Page – 1 – of 11Evan Nappen 03:29

Next move is to the Senate, and in the Senate, you will see the companion bill that should hopefully still

continue to have the HPA in it, legalizing, for lack of a better word here, silencers. Also, we’re hopeful

that we can see in the Senate the addition of the of the SHORT (Stop Harassing Owners of Rifles

Today) Act, which is the law to legalize short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns and any other weapons

also within the NFA, the National Firearms Act. If we can get those removed as well, that will cut the

National Firearms Act down to just covering machine guns and destructive devices. So, that’s very

exciting. Every bit of progress is extremely welcome. And even just getting silencers removed is a huge

step forward. As the rest of America freely acquires silencers so that they become in total common use

that enhances our ability to knock out New Jersey’s law as unconstitutional, even in litigation.

Evan Nappen 04:54

So, this is a great step forward, and the fun thing here is the politics of it in a way. We talked last week

about how there was controversy with Silencer Central over it, but that has been overcome. Originally

they were just lowering the tax, which was $200, to zero. Well, now it removes from NFA silencers and

suppressors. And what’s interesting is in a reconciliation bill that is not subject to those, particularly

Democrat tactics in the Senate, where they would kill a bill like this, it’s immune to that. Reconciliation

bills have to be based on taxation. They have to be taxation related to what gets passed. And here’s

where the irony is, sweet, sweet irony. And that is because the National Firearms Act, when it was

passed in the ’30s, was not based on interstate commerce. It was based on the power of taxation.

That’s why ATF was through Treasury, because they were handling taxation, and they essentially

passed anti- Second Amendment gun laws using the power of taxation. That’s why there was a $200

tax, and the procedure you had to go through to pay the tax.

Evan Nappen 06:21

Remember back in the ’30s, a $200 tax was exorbitant. Very few people could afford $200 as just the

tax, no less. So, over time, in terms of money and inflation, $200 was not the exorbitant sum that it was

in the ’30s, but you still had the gun control foundation. The Federal power of it is taxation. Well, here

we go with reconciliation, where they can address issues of taxation. So, now we get to turn the tables

on them by utilizing the fact that silencers and, for that matter, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns

and any other weapons, are tax laws. And using reconciliation, we can remove them and avoid cloture,

filibuster, etc. It is really wonderful to see. This is very exciting. This first major step out of the house is

quite an accomplishment, and our great gun rights organizations that partake in lobbying fiercely,

including NRA and GOA and others, did a great job here. We’ve got to give them a lot of thanks, and

let’s hold the line. Let’s get the Senate to not only pass the HPA, but also the SHORT Act. Let’s get all

these taken out of the NFA while we have this great opportunity. President Trump will absolutely sign

this big, beautiful bill, and its beauty just got tremendously enhanced for those who love the Second

Amendment.

Teddy Nappen 08:04

Out of curiosity, just kind of the $200 tax. Has there ever been a challenge just in terms of Court

arguments, it being like a poll tax? Essentially, back then, it would have been only the super elite who

would have been able to afford it. Would there have been any challenges that could have been made?

Page – 2 – of 11Evan Nappen 08:25

Well, the original Second Amendment case, ironically and interestingly, that made it to the U.S.

Supreme Court was the Miller decision. (United States v. Miller, 307 US 174 (1939)) The Miller decision

was a challenge to the legitimacy of the NFA to use the power of taxation so that the federal

government could regulate things that normally folks would say the federal government has no

business being involved in. Because prior to the ’30s, the idea of a federal law on firearms or things

involving firearms would seem to be unheard of. It would be something that would have been left to the

states. But in their greed for power, federally, they said, hey, let’s try out taxation as one of the federal

powers, and let’s see if we can get gun laws passed using the power of taxation. Under the Miller

decision, it was upheld. And the Miller decision was based on some bad guys that had sawed-off

shotguns, which we’re looking to get repealed, by the way, under the SHORT Act, ironically.

Evan Nappen 09:37

And in the Miller case, those folks that were the defendants, they didn’t even bother to put an argument

forward to the Supreme Court. They could care less. They were criminals. It was just being pursued so

that they could get the Supreme Court to talk about the power of taxation as a federal power, because

they wanted to use it to enforce things like the Harrison Drug Act. So, this was more than anything, a

power grab. And, yes, the power of taxation was upheld, so they could do this. But ironically now,

because it is all about taxation, it gives us the power to remove it under reconciliation. And that is why it

absolutely falls under what’s called the Senator Byrd rule, where reconciliation has to involve issues of

taxation. Well, these fall solidly within that, thank you. And therefore, this can happen under this

legislative procedure, which really paves the way for us to be successful here. So, it’s very exciting, and

it’s full of ironic twists. And yet, here we are. It will be a great day when this is signed. It’ll be amazingly

historic to see a chunk or chunks of the 1934 National Firearms Act actually removed by the federal

government, and particularly, by the signature of President Trump. That will be quite a day. We’re

looking forward to seeing it.

Teddy Nappen 11:14

I’m also kind of curious, because just in terms of the public, I haven’t seen, aside from, you know, all the

gun talks with all the groups talking about it. But I haven’t seen like The Trace. I haven’t seen it reach

the public eye about suppressors. It seems like it’s just, everyone just says, big, beautiful bill.

Evan Nappen 11:34

Well, the anti-gun, one of the anti-gun rights groups, one of the gun rights oppression groups did

counter this. I think it was one. I don’t remember. I don’t think it was. It wasn’t The Trace, per se, but

one of the groups came out, and here’s their response to this. Oh, I think it was the national it was, it

was one of those phony, so-called pro-gun groups that are actually anti-gun that put this out. They

make believe they’re a gun-rights group, when really they’re a left wing Democrat phony group that is

composed of sportsmen and fuds and Democrats that supposedly cherish our Second Amendment

rights. Except that every chance they try to cut it down and oppress us, but that group said, oh no, no.

We don’t need to make silencers and suppressors legal. You can just wear ear plugs. You just need

ear plugs. Just ear plugs. That’s all, and that’s all it takes, folks. Earplugs. You don’t need silencers.

Well, except, of course, the fact that and, Teddy, you’re going to talk about this a little bit later even.

Except, say, like when you’re hunting and you want to listen for game, and you want to listen for even

Page – 3 – of 11maybe other hunters if you’re going to drive game. You want to be alert and have your full hearing

capacity, and when you want to shoot your gun, you don’t want to blow your ears out. Well, damn,

that’s a great use for a suppressor. As a matter of fact, Teddy is going to discuss it was one of the

primary reasons it was invented. But they can conveniently ignore that, right?

Teddy Nappen 13:20

Yeah. Or currently where, if you’re in a self-defense situation in your home, you don’t want to blow your

ears out in your home and you pull your suppressed pistol. And so, you’re not, you don’t sleep with

earplugs on. You know.

Evan Nappen 13:34

Exactly. And when it comes to a home defense gun, a silenced or suppressed gun is ideal for just that

reason. You don’t have to have your hearing protection. It will make it so you can listen for noises and

other threats that may take place in the home. It not only will reduce sound but also reduce flash. It

makes it so that, if you’re smart in your home rig, in a suppressor-legal state, a great round is a .45.

Although there are a lot of nines that are suppressed. But the problem is, you want to keep things

subsonic. So, with nine, you got to go under 1000 feet, where nine performs best at higher velocities,

right? But your standard .45 load has a larger, heavier bullet that is in a standard load subsonic. So, if

you have a suppressed .45 and that’s your home rig, that’s a great setup. You’re not going to have over

penetration. You’re going to have massive stopping power. You’re going to have the advantage of the

suppressor, suppressing sound and flash. And it’s great. That’s an excellent point, Teddy, absolutely.

And we’ll get a little bit more into that in your Press Checks. I understand you have some very

interesting things to talk about regarding that.

Evan Nappen 14:55

Let me mention though our friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is running some special Memorial Day sales,

by the way. To honor our men and women who fought for freedom and, of course, the American Way

and those that need our continued support. We always cherish their sacrifice. Well, WeShoot is running

some really great specials, including $449 for 1000 rounds of .223. That’s a good deal. $245 for 1000

rounds of 9 millimeter. They have a bunch of other cool things going on. They’re helping to support the

Tunnel to Towers Foundation and Folds of Honor. Also, they are offering some great training. On

Sunday, June 8, they have the New Jersey NRA Carry Training. You can lock in your spot, and you can

also do your renewals for CCARE. You can even get your Utah non-resident carry, plus Florida,

Virginia, and Arizona, as add ons. WeShoot is offering tremendous training and certifications. They

have a great pro shop, great deals and a great range where Teddy and I shoot. Check out their website

at weshootusa.com, their fabulous website with awesome photos and lots of great info. So, make sure

you go to WeShoot. They’re conveniently located in Lakewood, New Jersey, right off the parkway. It’s a

great resource and a great place to shoot. And that’s WeShoot.

Evan Nappen 16:52

Let me also mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are

the number one stalwart defenders of our gun rights in New Jersey. They’re in the federal courts,

litigating, trying to knock out these evil suppression gun laws, and they are also on guard at the

legislature, with a full-time paid lobbyist there. Watching and alerting us so that we can take steps to

Page – 4 – of 11fight these rights suppressionists as they continue to try to oppress us and take away our precious

rights. The Association is your number one gun rights group. You need to belong. Everybody should be

a member. It’s an umbrella organization of all the gun clubs that are members of the Association. You

can go to anjrpc.org. Please join today. Be part of the solution by joining anjrpc.org.

Evan Nappen 17:58

Of course, I want to shamelessly plug my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey

gun law. It is over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. It is the book to keep

you from becoming a GOFU in New Jersey. If you want to avoid that, you need my book. It’s the

source. And when you get the book, make sure you never loan it to anybody. Because you’ll never get

it back. I hear that all the time. And if you want to get a copy of the key to staying legal in Jersey, go to

EvanNappen.com. EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book there, click it, and it’ll be in your

possession in a matter of days. When you get it, scan the front cover, the QR code, and join my free

subscriber base. When you join, you get access to all the updates and the archive. You can

immediately download the 2025 Comprehensive Update, which is done in chapter form with a bonus

chapter, a standalone sensitive places chapter. So, you’ll know where you can carry with your New

Jersey carry permit. Now, Teddy, your Press Checks folds right into our discussion on silencers. Tell us

about Press Checks. Go right ahead, man. I’m looking forward to it.

Teddy Nappen 19:19

So, we know that Press Checks are always free, and I was flipping through BearingArms, of course. I

love the start of it. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/05/22/suppressor-delisting-in-big-

beautiful-budget-bill-n1228679) “That’s right, boys and girls, suppressors delisting is back. Delisting is

back in the budget and approved by the House. So, I just want to give credit to BearingArms, our

friends, there. But it got me kind of thinking about the history of suppressors. Like, when did it all begin?

What was the start of it all? And it actually goes back to, from Historical Firearms, I pulled from their

page. (https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/142864103092/inventors-and-their-guns-hiram-percy-

maxim-hiram) Hiram Percy Maxim. Hiram. Hiram, sorry. Hiram, sorry, my accent is too thick. Hiram

Percy Maxim, the son of Hiram Maxim, who invented the machine gun, is best known for his silencers.

Evan Nappen 20:15

Ah, wait. Let’s talk for a minute about the Maxim, the Maxim machine gun. He invented that, and it was

so devastating. He invented it to end all wars. He believed that that gun would end all wars, because no

one would ever charge one of these guns. Why would you? It would just end wars. No one would ever

want to fight if they were facing machine guns. And he was, unfortunately, wrong in that.

Teddy Nappen 20:43

Let me grab my whistle and everyone start running.

Evan Nappen 20:47

You’re running and get cut down by Maxim guns. Yeah.

Page – 5 – of 11Teddy Nappen 20:52

Yeah. And what was interesting is, he was granted a series of patents from 1909 to 1920. He was

selling the firearm suppressors through the Maxim Silent Firearms Company, which later became

Maxim Silencer Company. Now, the one model that took everything by storm was the Model 1910

suppressor. It had a centrally aligned internal channel and instead used an offset or a centric design. It

had an added benefit of not obstructing the weapon’s sites.

Evan Nappen 21:32

So, what’s interesting is the early Maxim suppressor does not have the hole directly in the center as

we’re used to on today’s suppressors that are a tube with a hole in the center. The hole is actually off

center, toward the top. More toward the top of the circle. So that the bottom almost looks like kind of a

belly. And what’s really great is that was done so it didn’t obstruct sites. Now they don’t seem to make

suppressors utilizing that design too much today, but it was very smart, because then you don’t have to

have your sights raised and all that to have the suppressor. So, if you ever see a Maxim suppressor, it

does look different because of that.

Teddy Nappen 22:17

Yeah, and I also thought it was interesting that it didn’t use. There were no threaded barrels for that.

So, what he developed is a coupling device, which would be placed over the muzzle to offer the

external thread. So, I do love this one. He listed in the brochure when you buy it that one of the most

difficult things to do is it could not be disassembled for cleaning. So, it’s recommended you run it

through hot water.

Evan Nappen 22:50

Hey, that’s how you clean it, and you can run suppressors wet, too. It actually makes it more effective.

Well, one of the original uses, and I know you’re going to talk about a number of these, but one of the

original uses that they advertised for was for farmers to be able to shoot rats in the hen house without

disturbing egg production. So, that’s a pretty good one. What else did you find?

Teddy Nappen 23:16

Well, I’ve got to give Maxim credit. He wrote a lot of different books. And one book, “Experiences With

the Maxim Silencer” is compiled of letters from sportsmen and hunters who had used his silencer. The

whole idea is him developing the system, and this is part of the forward, to “meet my personal desire to

enjoy target practice without creating a disturbance. I have always loved to shoot, but I never

thoroughly enjoyed it when I knew the noise was annoying other people.” You know, just to be nice to

your neighbors.

Evan Nappen 23:56

Well, that’s true, and not disturb yourself even. But you know, he actually got the inspiration and the

invention of the silencer from his bathtub. This is true. He wanted to create a way of silencing. And what

he did was, he was looking at the drain on the tub, and he saw the whirlpool that was created in the

drain. And he thought to himself, hey, wait, that slows the water down. I wonder if I could create a

whirlpool with the airflow to slow the gasses down so it wouldn’t make the bang. He was actually

Page – 6 – of 11inspired by his bathtub to invent the silencer, and that story is reiterated and written in that really cool

book you found, Teddy. What book do you find?

Teddy Nappen 24:58

“Experiences with the Maxim Silencer.” That’s the book. It’s extremely rare.

Evan Nappen 25:05

And who wrote it?

Teddy Nappen 25:07

Well, Hiram Percy Maxim. It was Hiram Percy Maxim.

Evan Nappen 25:15

Hiram Piercy Maxim himself wrote it and described how he came up with a silencer. It was literally from

the bathtub. It’s a really interesting book, and it’s actually online, the PDF of the book. We’ll have a link

in the Gun Lawyer transcript for you to see his original book, “Experiences With the Maxim Silencer.”

(https://americansuppressorassociation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/maximletters.pdf) It’s a really

cool historic document, and actually, the very things that he talks about in that book are being put

forward today as our arguments to remove silencers from the NFA. You know, the facts haven’t

changed, just the politics have. And there you go. Did you find any other historic uses of interest?

Teddy Nappen 26:08

Oh, it’s kind of interesting. So, Small Arms Review did a whole historical breakdown.

(https://smallarmsreview.com/silencers-the-u-s-army-and-the-nfa-the-early-history-of-suppressors/) A

little fun fact, Theodore Roosevelt suppressed his 3030 Winchester Model 1894 with a Maxim silencer,

and he would use that rifle to hunt small game while on Long Island.

Evan Nappen 26:30

And he would shout “bully” every time he made a hit. I think.

Teddy Nappen 26:34

Bully, of course.

Evan Nappen 26:35

Bully. That’s great. Well, of course, I’m not surprised, because Teddy was, you’re a Teddy, and he was

a Teddy. And Teddys are gun nuts, you know that?

Teddy Nappen 26:47

Yeah. And so that was kind of the whole commercial idea. The idea was to sell it to hunters and to

farmers. And what drove it, as well, was the military application. So, Maxim was competing with his

rival, (Robert A.) Moore, who built his own suppressor, and they were competing for the military

contract in 1912. It was for the Springfield M1903. So, they did a test, and I thought this was very

interesting. So, Moore’s silencer was more accurate. However, Maxim’s was more durable. So, they, of

course, bought them both. The first actual use and deployment of a Maxim suppressor was used by

Page – 7 – of 11General Pershing on his Mexican expedition to hunt down Pancho Villa. He had a squad of snipers

armed with suppressors with M1903s.

Evan Nappen 27:49

So, wow, that’s pretty cool.

Teddy Nappen 27:52

Yeah. Oh, and to make you jealous, many of the rifles were unloaded to the Civilian Marksmanship

Program (CMP) in the 1920s.

Evan Nappen 28:01

Oh, the DCM sold suppressed, 1903s, huh? That’s sweet. That’s a sweet gun right there.

Teddy Nappen 28:09

Yeah.

Evan Nappen 28:10

That’s a collectible.

Teddy Nappen 28:11

With a suppressor on the end.

Evan Nappen 28:13

Maybe they’re out there, and when silencers are legal, they can come out of the basements and attics

again. That would be cool. Hey, that is really interesting. Well, I appreciate the information you’ve

shared with us, and I want to mention to our listeners an article I found that I thought was kind of fun. It

was written by one of my favorite writers, Dean Weingarten, and he writes for AmmoLand. He makes a

very interesting point in this article about Tungsten Super Shot (TSS).

(https://www.ammoland.com/2025/05/tungsten-super-shot-could-be-anti-drone-shotgun-ammo/)

Evan Nappen 28:48

Now, you can buy Tungsten Super Shot. It’s a shot shell ammo, and it’s tungsten. It’s super and it’s

shot. But here’s what the article says. Tungsten super shot could be anti-drone shotgun ammo. So, he

wrote a really interesting article about the idea of Tungsten Super Shot being used in ordinary shotguns

and how it can be really effective, arguably, on drones. You should really read the article, and you’ll

really get a kick out of this whole idea about this. As he said, small quad rotor drones may be more

vulnerable. Break a rotor or motor, and they’ll come down. Hit the processor or battery, they’ll come

down. It says rifles and machine guns have plenty of power, but not sufficient projectiles to be a serious

threat unless they’re tied to a fire control system with radar or LIDAR. So, shotguns with TSS, which is

the shorthand for this Tungsten Super Shot, TSS, offers a cheap possibility for short range protection

against small drones. Another possibility is to mount a shotgun on a Hunter Killer drone and shoot it

down amongst other drones. Anyway, it’s a cool article, and it’s something I hadn’t thought of when it

comes to Tungsten Super Shot. So, I thought I’d share that.

Page – 8 – of 11Teddy Nappen 30:23

Remember when Amazon was trying to push the idea of having their packages delivered by drones?

Evan Nappen 30:32

Yeah.

Teddy Nappen 30:32

Yeah. So, there was the running gag of trap shooting with prizes.

Evan Nappen 30:37

Ha, ha, ha. That’s a good one. Shooting with prizes. I have a letter here from Ask Evan. We love the

letters. This is from Barry. Barry says, hey, big fan here. My question is as follows. If a person is

lawfully carrying a concealed firearm in NJ and is questioned about their present state of sobriety, does

law enforcement have the ability to do a field sobriety test, even though there’s no proof of using

substances, driving or having committed no crime, for that matter, like a breathalyzer? So, that’s a good

question.

Evan Nappen 31:14

Let’s look at it in two parts. First of all, what if you’re questioned? Well, number one, you have no

obligation to answer law enforcement questions. You have a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. I

suggest you do so. New Jersey imposes a duty upon us to reveal that you have a firearm on your

person. Right? A duty to disclose, and you have to have your permit and show the officer. But you’re

not required to answer any other questions about your gun or your state of being. Asking whether you

consumed alcohol, you have absolutely no obligation to answer those questions.

Evan Nappen 31:43

And the idea of being able to be tested for sobriety, ah, well, this is not like driving. You see, with

driving, we have what is called implied consent. Supposedly, when you get a driver’s license, somehow

we’ve all consented, even though you didn’t know you did, but we’ve all consented, to allowing for

breathalyzer, even blood to be drawn if necessary to determine alcohol content. It’s called implied

consent, and it’s part of our motor vehicle laws. However, with firearms, there is no implied consent law.

So, since there’s no implied consent, without probable cause or even your permission, forget it. You

have no obligation to submit to a sobriety test. You have no obligation to speak. They cannot just say,

hey, we want to test you. You’re carrying a gun. We need to see if you have any alcohol in you at all.

Nope, can’t do it. There’s no law allowing that.

Evan Nappen 33:10

Now, there is a ban in New Jersey on having alcohol and carrying a gun. You can’t be drinking or be

drunk or have alcohol in your system at all. There isn’t even a limit. It can even be the minutest amount.

They didn’t set any type of limits, as they do for cars. But they also do not have any implied consent

built into the law where you have to submit to that kind of testing. So, that’s a good question. Keep it in

mind. You do not have to submit to testing, and you do not have to answer any questions along those

lines. Always stand on your Fifth Amendment right to remain silent and your Sixth Amendment right to

counsel. The only thing in questioning which they can ask, and you need to give is pedigree, pedigree

Page – 9 – of 11information. In other words, your name and arguably your address, that kind of thing. But nothing else

other than your pedigree information is allowed to be gleaned.

Evan Nappen 34:12

Now, for this week’s GOFU, which is the Gun Owner Fuck Up, where we look at actual cases and

scenarios where individuals get into trouble, and we don’t want you to get into trouble. I have a letter

here, and this is from John regarding Red Flag laws. John says, my 13 year old ran away, but he’s

home now. We had contacted the police. Does this subject me to Red Flag laws? Now, what New

Jersey has is not officially called a “Red Flag Law”. It’s called an ERPO, that is an Extreme Risk

Protection Order. It begins as a TERPO, a Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Order, in which there’s

no due process. If somebody makes any kind of allegation that you’re a danger to yourself or others,

they can issue this TERPO without any due process. You have no say in it whatsoever. They will come

and raid your house. They’ll take your guns and possibly even take you away for a wellness check

based on it.

Evan Nappen 35:14

Then you finally get your day in court at a hearing for a Final Extreme Risk Protection Order (FERPO)

to see if that gets issued. The acronyms fall under, it’s an ERPO, right? That starts as a TERPO, and

then it can eventually become a FERPO. And by the way, if it happens in Bergen County, it’s a

BURPO. Just kidding about that. But beware of that. So, red flag is something that can get done. Now,

will this situation necessarily result in an ERPO? Not necessarily but depending on to what degree the

police or others want to take it, depending on what other facts may be there.

Evan Nappen 35:59

And this is where the GOFU is. You’ve got to remember and be careful anytime law enforcement gets

involved in your life, or you involve them in your life. It can escalate. It can escalate over the silliest

things said, and anytime you’re dealing with this situation, there can be risk. And next thing you know,

you have DCPP, you know, it used to be DYFS, over this situation. And then they’re asking if you have

guns in the house. Listen, do not respond to these questions. You have no obligation to do that. Call an

attorney right away. Because anything you say then escalates to gun seizure, and I’ve seen it over and

over again. So, the answer to John’s questions generally is, yeah, it can lead to it. It depends more on

the facts of the situation. But in New Jersey, it’s extremely common to have the Government

immediately want to take guns and want to take away your rights, and at the least excuse, they seem to

do it. We get these cases all the time, every day. It’s just amazing how much of a rampage New Jersey

is on to not just disenfranchise us of our gun rights, but to steal our guns as well. It comes with living in

the Democratic People’s Republic of New Jersey. So, beware.

Evan Nappen 37:26

Remember that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from

honest citizens.

Page – 10 – of 11Speaker 2 37:35

Gun Lawyer is a Counter Think Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by

Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and

opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Page – 11 – of 11

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E239_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

Email Evan Your Comments and Questions 

• talkback@gun.lawyer

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