Episode 232-Is the RoTo 12 Jersey Legal?

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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Roto 12, black powder firearm, American Gun Craft, New Jersey gun laws, destructive device, assault firearm, mail order restrictions, replica firearms, UK gun bans, ninja swords, Cory Booker, gun control, Second Amendment, Justice Department, Civil Rights Act.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 2, Teddy Nappen, Evan Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15 I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17 And I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:19

And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, one of the questions that has come my way, that I think is interesting and the analysis will be of interest as well, is this. Is the Roto 12 “Chain Saw” Shotgun legal in New Jersey? (https://americanguncraft.com/product/roto-12-cs-chain-saw-shotgun-no-ffl-required-copy/) Now, you may be saying, what the hell is a Roto 12? Well, the Roto 12 is interesting as a firearm. It’s made by American Gun Craft. Now, American Gun Craft makes black powder firearms, and for the longest time, they made a black powder, double barrel, shotgun pistol. It’s literally a 12-gauge pistol that is a double barrel, short double barrel, 12 gauge pistol. However, it fires black powder ammunition. So, you would muzzle load it with black powder, muzzle load a 12 gauge slug or buckshot. And yeah, it operates at a 12 gauge level. But it is, in fact, a black powder handgun.

Evan Nappen 01:37

And so, one of the questions is, is that American Gun Craft, what they call their Diablo. It’s one of the models there. Is that double barrel handgun pistol Jersey legal? And then what happened was, they’ve come out with this brand new Roto 12, and the Roto 12 is a very compact pistol version. And then another version, the “Chain Saw”. If you ever saw the Mossberg (590) Chainsaw where they put the grab handle on top of the firearm that just has a pistol grip with a shotgun barrel. (https://www.mossberg.com/590-chainsaw-50692.html) Well, they have that configuration for the Roto 12. And the Roto 12 is very innovative. It is an eight shot revolving cylinder in which you can load the cylinder with the load. So, you’ve got eight shots, and then you can fire eight 12 gauge shots out of this rotating barrel. Black powder, 12 gauge, very modern shotgun. And this Roto 12, by the way, accepts a standard AR-15 grip and AR-15 style stock with a buffer tube. Even though the gun itself doesn’t use a buffer tube, you can stock it.

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Evan Nappen 03:18

Of course, all these legal questions start surrounding the Roto 12, and I’m going to address them, because the analysis will help you to better understand just how crazy our gun laws are. So, of course, we have two jurisdictions that would be at play – federal law and state law. Now the company sells this firearm all over the country, and they claim no FFL is required. And why is that? Well, that’s because it is a black powder firearm, and under federal law, as a black powder firearm, it is not within the scope of the modern FFL firearm requirements. So, it’s not a gun that would be put into a dealer’s books and disposed of accordingly and handled the way it would a regular cartridge-firing shotgun using a modern cartridge in modern power.

Evan Nappen 04:28

So, what this does is create the closest thing you can to this 12 gauge, eight shot, cylinder-fed shotgun, pistol-size firearm, and they can sell it with no FFL throughout America. Federal law doesn’t have an issue with this, because black powder firearms are not covered under the federal gun laws. They are excluded. However, in New Jersey, they are not. In New Jersey, a black powder firearm is treated exactly the same as a modern cartridge firing firearm. So, the fact that it uses black powder, is a muzzle loading into the cylinder, the way the old 1860 Army Revolvers loaded or the 1851 Navy pistol revolvers loaded. You know, you load this cylinder, and you can fire multiple shots. It’s that but in 12 gauge. That is still considered a firearm in New Jersey, and the double barrel handgun pistol would normally be looked at as the equivalent of a modern handgun in New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 06:02

But the problem with both of these is that they are 12 gauge, and because they’re 12 gauge, they actually would come under the category of “destructive device” (DD). New Jersey defines a “destructive device” as any device, instrument, or object designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, including, and then it says, any weapon capable of firing projectiles of a caliber greater than 60 caliber. (N.J.S. 2C:39-1c.) Twelve gauge is up past 70 caliber. It’s a problem. Then it says, except a shotgun, where shotgun ammunition generally recognizes suitable for sporting purposes. Well, what you have here is not going to be a shotgun generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes, even though Jersey views it as a modern shotgun in the same category. They don’t distinguish.

Evan Nappen 07:18

So, what you have is a shotgun that is black powder firing. It’s still considered a shotgun, but it has to be recognized suitable for sporting purposes. Then, even if it is that, because it fires a caliber over 60 cal., that double barrel pistol has a problem being a DD. But even if the shotgun is considered exempted to the DD, then we have a new problem. The new problem is under New Jersey’s assault firearm law. N.J.S. 2C:39-1.w(1) has the definitions. The very first part of it prohibits “any shotgun with a revolving cylinder . . .”. So that was going after initially, what? The “Street Sweeper” and the “Striker 12, right? But they didn’t just use those names. They said “shotguns with revolving cylinders”. So, if you’re saying this gun is somehow exempted because it’s a shotgun, even because it’s over 60 cal., and you’re claiming that’s not a DD, a destructive device, because it’s a shotgun, then if it is a shotgun, it’s prohibited as an assault firearm because it’s a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

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Evan Nappen 08:51

This is the trap that New Jersey has laid for these guns. Plus you can’t receive them through the mail in New Jersey, because acquisition of a handgun or a rifle or a shotgun would require paperwork and having a NICS check on it via the state law. You can’t just receive firearms by mail order in New Jersey. So, they can’t do that. If you end up ordering one of these and you have it sent to you, and I don’t know if the company will even send it to New Jersey, but if they do, there’s an issue raised even on your receipt of it. There’s a further issue if you get it out of state and bring it into New Jersey, because you’re basically possessing contraband. So, folks, beware of the Roto 12. As cool as it looks and seems, it is a big problem in New Jersey. And by the way, in case you’re wondering, the price of a Roto 12, it’s right on the website for American Gun Craft, is $1,255. That’s right, $1,255 for a Roto 12. So, there you go.

Teddy Nappen 10:07

It actually kind of reminds me of, do you remember the show “Sons of Guns”, where they were trying. The guy came in and asked, hey, could you make me a ballistic knife that was legal? And so, what they did is, instead of using the spring, it used black powder. They would just, like, fire it like a pistol, which if I recall, that still made it illegal.

Evan Nappen 10:33

It was because the problem is that the definition of a ballistic knife is any device that propels a knife blade. (N.J.S. 2C:39-1u.) And, of course, New Jersey’s prohibition on ballistic knives is so broad in the definition of what propels a knife blade that it basically covers all broadhead arrows. You know, we’re waiting to see someone get charged with possession of a ballistic knife because they were deer hunting with broad head razor arrows. What does an arrow and a bow do? It propels knife blades. So, that law is pretty broad and vague, and unfortunately, it is still very pesky. I would tell anyone be careful, because if they can make examples out of folks, I’m sure they’ll try at some point. But yeah, it does look like that. It’s pretty funny. But these are unique, and they get around a lot of federal laws, that’s for sure. Not in New Jersey, but it does create a whole interesting proposition for the rest of the country. It’s pushing the envelope pretty hard when you’re making a compact shotgun that’s 12 gauge, holds eight rounds, and doesn’t require an FFL, right? But like I said, in New Jersey – verboten, so be careful with that.

Evan Nappen 12:00

You know, New Jersey is not just the only place that is banning and prohibiting these days. Never to be outdone, we have the insane U.K., the United Kingdom. They are now going to ban ninja swords by the summer. (https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/03/28/uk-to-ban-ninja-swords-by-this-summer/) That’s right. They call it “ninja swords”, not Katanas, you know. Not even Asian sword, but no “ninja swords”. But they defined that ninja sword so broadly that it brings in basically any sword that has a tanto blade geometry. It consists of here. The ninja sword has a blade between 14 and 24 inches with one straight edge and a tanto style point.

Evan Nappen 12:55

So, with that tanto and the blade of that length, it’s banned in the U.K. That means some of the most valuable Japanese and Asian swords, some of the most valuable, priceless, swords that go back centuries, centuries, are now just going to be banned. No compensation to owners. No exemption here

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for antique or collectible. Nope. We’ve just got to ban swords because they basically took care of all the gun bans they could think of. But that doesn’t stop them. So, now they’re on the kick of anything with an edge, and swords are now their latest sacrificial lamb. Prior to this, they banned the zombie knife. Zombie knife. What the heck is a zombie knife? Well, you know knives that are used to kill zombies, of course. So, you know how dangerous zombie knives are. I thought zombies, frankly, were more dangerous than zombie knives. Didn’t you Teddy? I mean really. And by the way, what’s going to happen in England when they ban zombie knives and the night of living dead takes place there?

Teddy Nappen 14:13

Well, uh, 20 or, you know, 28 days later, that’s, yeah.

Evan Nappen 14:19

Yeah, they’re gonna need all the zombie knives and Katanas they can get their hands on. But then again, England has never been, UK. has never been smart about that. I mean, even in World War II, they were begging us to send them our guns, literally, civilian guns, because they so foolishly disarmed their own people. Yet, they don’t learn. They don’t learn. It’s kind of funny to see them saying how important it is for us to fight in Ukraine because of Russia. And, you know, that’s a real threat. But you’re disarming your people that would be able to fight. As in World War II, when you disarm them. So, you had to take guns out of civilian hands in the U.S. to even get guns. I mean, the Rifleman Magazine, the NRA, had big ads, donate your guns to England for the war, because they disarmed themselves and made themselves vulnerable. Well, they’re at it again, and not just guns, but swords as well.

Teddy Nappen 15:21

I think there was a good description of the U.K., as if the left had unfettered power, what would we become as a nation? And the best example is always the UK. They are completely disarming their people, losing every ounce of their nation and culture. Now going after “ninja swords”. I mean, at this point, I’m waiting for them to do the William Wallace, where, if you are caught with a sword, you are drawn and quartered.

Evan Nappen 15:54

You know it is really something when you see the insanity that is the U.K. these days. They’re just destroying themselves from the inside out. And look, we’re talking about the country that, as we talked about, just did a commemorative coin for George Orwell that consists of an eye watching you all the time. People are like, is that like the perfect commemorative coin for the Royal Mint to make? They have no clue why it’s so perfect, but yeah. That’s like it in a nutshell.

Teddy Nappen 16:32

What they want. It’s what they want.

Evan Nappen 16:35

Yeah, and they have become what they’re always threatening about us. We’ve got to worry about totalitarians. Totalitarians is what they’re pursuing with just these bans and taking people’s property. Not allowing the people to be able to protect themselves and outlawing self-defense. Yet, as ridiculous as the U.K. is when it comes to these things, the U.S. is still not to be outdone. Just recently, over 1000

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replica firearms and suppressors, actual replicas, toys, my friends, toys, were seized by the CBP and the CP SC at LAX. (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/local-media-release/over-1000-replica-firearms- and-suppressors-seized-cbp-and-cpsc-lax) That’s right. U.S. Customs Border Protection (CBP) and the Consumer Protection Safety Commission (CPSC). Isn’t that great? Those two are joining up here. Have helped public safety beyond belief by seizing over 1,000 replica firearms. They’ve already destroyed 953 replica firearms and 111 replica suppressors. It is crazy. A lot of this stuff, this replica stuff, can’t be fired. Can’t be shot. It’s not an actual firearm in any way. They’re originating from China, and they are being intercepted and destroyed. How dare they send model toy guns to the U.S. Especially model toy guns that do not have, folks, this is their sin. Do not have a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel. Right?

Teddy Nappen 18:34 Oops.

Evan Nappen 18:34

No plug. No, no Peter, butt plug there, whatever that guy. He’s really something. And you gotta have this, you got to have this. So, without this plug, it is contraband. It is a violation of the federal law that requires toy guns, look alike firearms, and imitation firearms sold or transported across state lines to have a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel, or a stripe on both sides of the barrel. So, there you go. And so, the scourge of imitation firearms is being stopped by the hard-working folks in our federal government. We should be proud of their tremendous efforts in keeping us safe from toys.

Teddy Nappen 19:29

Out of curiosity, just kind of looking at New Jersey. Have you ever had it where a guy like either working as a public defender? Was there ever one where a guy tried to rob a convenience store using a replica gun? Has that ever come into play?

Evan Nappen 19:44

Well, people have tried to use replica guns all through history. As a matter of fact, one of the most famous was Dillinger, who, in jail, took a bar of soap and turned it into a Colt automatic pistol. As a replica. Of course, it didn’t fire anything but soap bubbles. He blackened it with shoe polish. And I’ll tell you. I saw that gun at the FBI Museum. Dillinger’s actual gun, because he used it to escape from jail. Because, I’ll tell you right now, if Dillinger points a Colt automatic at you, you’re not gonna say, hey, buddy, I think it’s soap. It’s Dillinger pointing a gun at you. So, yeah, you pretty much believe him and that had a lot to do with it. But I’ll tell you what. I saw that that soap gun, and damn was it accurate. He knew his guns, man. It was a magnificent replica that he just did from memory in a jail cell on a bar of soap. That guy was quite skilled. Hell, he could have gone legit just selling soap guns. I guess he was so good at that.

Evan Nappen 20:48

But yeah, replica firearms can be used wrongly. They can be used to commit crimes and all. But, like all these things with guns, banning guns isn’t the answer. It just isn’t. In the end, it doesn’t work. And what does happen is good people suffer. I mean, I’m sure companies that were going to sell replica firearms here are going to suffer. There’s collectors that don’t want to hang real firearms up, but want to admire

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replicas. You know, this is totally legitimate to have a desire to have replica firearms. And that’s just like they are replicas.

Teddy Nappen 21:29

It actually reminds me of the old bit where, you know, I get to see this getting banned, where, if you have a banana in a brown bag, uh oh, replica firearms.

Evan Nappen 21:39

Yeah, the old gag they used to dream how extreme they’ll go. There’s never a shortage of extremism when it comes to going after our rights.

Teddy Nappen 21:51

Well, people do the smash and grab. They’ll take a truck and smash into a convenience store, grab stuff and run.

Evan Nappen 21:58

Well, hey, Teddy, before we get to your Press Checks segment, I want to tell everyone about our good friends at WeShoot, because WeShoot is making a big point about their pre-loved guns. I own a lot of pre-loved guns. I’m willing to share and to share the love with pre-loved guns, and so should you. And these pre-loved guns they have are in excellent condition, and they’re all checked out by folks at WeShoot to be quality pieces. And they have quite a selection of pre-loved guns, and I’ll name some. They have a SIG Sauer P365 XL, with add ons. They’ve got Shadow Systems, used. I love the Shadow Systems guns. They’re great. I have a CR 920 Elite, a very fine gun. Shadow Systems. They’ve got a Taurus G2C, and CZ P09, and a Magnum Research .44 mag, Browning Buckmark, Taurus PT9. Now you can see a whole array here, man, of great pre-loved guns. Colt 1911 Mark IVs, Kimbers, FN 509s, Beretta Neos. Walther Q5 Match and Walther PPQ 5″ and Walther PDP F and Walther PPQ and Walther CCP M2. All the Walthers, the whole alphabet, super Walthers. They’ve got them. Plus they’ve got pre-loved Glocks, the 17 and 19, 35 and 21, the 19X not just the 19 and 19x. Ruger 57 in 5.7 by 28. You have Colt Commander by Colt. Canics, Smiths, Rugers. Tons and tons of pre-loved guns. Definitely worth the trip. You get a bargain, you get a deal, and you get a fine firearm. Plus you can get your training, and you can shoot at the range. Great place, great folks. WeShootUSA.com. weshootusa.com is their website. Check out their website. They’re located right in Lakewood, in a easy to reach, right from the parkway, right there. Central Jersey area. A great resource and a great range.

Evan Nappen 24:45

I also want to mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the state affiliate. They are the state NRA affiliate. Hey, we have the NRA Annual Meeting coming up next month, the big annual meeting of NRA. The Association is the NRA of New Jersey. They’re the state affiliate, and they work hand in hand with them as well, defending our gun rights. They’re the folks that have a full-time paid lobbyist in Trenton, their own lobbyist, fighting for our rights. They’re in the courts as we speak, litigating against these God awful laws that just want to oppress our Second Amendment rights. You really need to be a member of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, anjrpc.org. When you join, you’ll get all their email alerts, and you’ll know that you’re helping to

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fight the 2Aoppression in New Jersey. You’ll be part of the solution, not the problem. Go to Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs.org, anjrpc.org, and join today.

Evan Nappen 25:58

Finally, it’s time for me to shamelessly plug my book, which is the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It is called, not surprisingly, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. And it is the guidebook, the book that will help you understand, what is the understandable? If that’s a word. An un understandable, how’s that? And that’s what you will get. That’s basically New Jersey in a nutshell. If you had to describe it, it’s un understandable, because even that word’s on understandable. I try to make it so you can truly understand New Jersey gun law by putting it in question and answer format, making it so that we have updated it, and keeping the book current. When you get your book, scan the QR Code, you can go to the free subscriber base, 100% free and private. You’ll be able to download the 2025 Comprehensive Update. And down the road here, new laws look like they’re going to pass, unfortunately, in New Jersey. As soon as they do, I will be able to tell you what you need to know about those laws. So, Teddy, tell us about Press Checks today. What have you discovered?

Teddy Nappen 27:33

Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free. So, on the happy Liberation Day, as the tariffs have been kicked off for President Trump. One thing that was kind of circling a bit, but seemed to have been a little. Maybe you heard or if you remember the mayor of New York, no Newark. Sorry, not New York. Newark. Cory Booker, now Senator Booker, decided to talk for 25 hours for filibustering, but not actually filibustering anything. Well, he decided to bring one of his staffers who was armed into the capital when he wasn’t supposed to be. (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5225803-senator-cory-booker-staffer- arrested/)

Evan Nappen 28:19 That’s not hypocritical, is it?

Teddy Nappen 28:21

What? No. What do you mean? Someone who pushes for extreme amounts of gun control and anti-gun bias throughout his political career, having one of his staffers, who is a retired law enforcement officer carrying inside the Capitol? Yes. Incredibly so.

Evan Nappen 28:45

Wow. Even though he’s retired law enforcement, he’s not exempted for that.

Teddy Nappen 28:51

Correct. Under HR 218 for the LEOSA.

Evan Nappen 28:54 Right.

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Teddy Nappen 28:55 Yeah, he is.

Evan Nappen 28:58

The Capitol is still off limits.

Teddy Nappen 29:01

Correct. All federal buildings. Pulling from federal, you must follow federal laws. Federal agencies and carrying concealed firearms in certain federal buildings. And oh, look under United States Capitol Police ban permitted grounds firearms including oh, replicas and ammunition and weapons, including blackjack, slingshot. Whoop. There we go. One page out of Jersey’s book. Sand club, sandbag, knuckles, electric, stun gun.

Evan Nappen 29:30

All that is banned as well in the Capitol.

Teddy Nappen 29:34 Yeah.

Evan Nappen 29:34

Dennis the Menace cannot bring his slingshot.

Teddy Nappen 29:37

Yes. This comes from the United States Capitol Police center, visiting Capitol Hill. Staff are allowed to possess knives that are under three inches for the blade.

Evan Nappen 29:48

How can they trust them with that?

Teddy Nappen 29:51

I don’t know. So, again, it’ll be something to say. But yeah, so they ended from the hill, Cory Booker’s staffer was arrested Monday for possession of a pistol, shortly before the Senator began his marathon speech. Yes, the staffer was ID. He was a retired law enforcement officer. So, just taking all that in from, you know.

Evan Nappen 30:18

So, was Senator Booker trying to talk us to death?

Teddy Nappen 30:21

Well, his whole scheme was he wanted to beat the previous filibuster record, except he didn’t actually filibuster anything. There was no bills up there. He just stood up and talked for 25 hours for no reason. So, quite frankly, it was a waste of time. To give you a little highlight of Cory Booker, just to really show the hypocrisy, this comes from “on the issues” where Cory Booker gun control, great site. (https://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Cory_Booker_Gun_Control.htm) Kind of lays out all the sites to all

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of his things on the issues of gun control. One of which is Red Flag laws and his were, yes, very important, but they’re nowhere near enough to stop the rising levels. He wants more Red Flag laws.

Evan Nappen 31:11

You know, I debated him a long time ago when he was Mayor, on TV, and I met him. I said he’s pretty slick, that guy.

Teddy Nappen 31:19

Yeah, he kind of reminds me of Gavin Newsom, just kind of that level. But he’s just.

Evan Nappen 31:25

Not as much hair gel, though, on Corey.

Teddy Nappen 31:28 Apparently. Yeah, exactly.

Evan Nappen 31:30

As a matter of fact, part of Trump’s drill, baby drill, I think was also referring to Gavin Newsom’s hair.

Teddy Nappen 31:37

Probably, yeah. But the other thing, and I love this one. This just really highlights it. So, from his mayoral website, from “on the issues”, it shows, and this comes right from now, moving through our federal legislation is an insane idea that says people can carry hidden, loaded weapons, concealed weapons, all throughout the country, regardless of individual state laws. Oh, my God.

Evan Nappen 32:08

Wait. Isn’t the sky falling, too? Yeah, it sounds like that. Yeah. So, in other words, national constitutional reciprocity is a boogey man. Is a boogey man. And, of course, this is the same stuff that gun rights suppressionist said at the beginning of the concealed carry movement. They said, oh, shall issue carry permits, we’re going to have BITS. I call it BITS. Blood In The Streets. Blood In The Streets. BITS, BITS. That’s all they ever say. Oh, my God, national reciprocity, where they can carry without permits. Another, BITS, BITS, BITS, BITS. It’s always that. Always the same song every time. And guess what? It’s never true. It’s never true. You know, I’m sorry. What happened to the Wild West when we would get constitutional carry? What ever happened to the Wild West would get shall issue permits? I was looking forward to the Wild West. It never came. What’s going on, folks, come on, you promised me a Wild West. We didn’t even make it to like Roy Rogers stage. Yet those laws passed, and people are defenders instead of victims. But they’re still at it. Scare the people. Scare the people with lies. With lies.

Teddy Nappen 33:28

Also, he has always been this extreme on firearms and gun control. From him being a city councilman in Newark, he supported banning of all guns, apparently, not just some.

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Evan Nappen 33:42

Well, that’s so reasonable, right?

Teddy Nappen 33:44

I know, right? Yeah, of course, banning assault weapons and all that. Just going after any supported. By the way, him and Eric Swalwell, you remember him? He banged the Chinese spy?

Evan Nappen 34:00 Yeah, yeah.

Teddy Nappen 34:01

Where they proposed and pushed forward an assault weapon ban.

Evan Nappen 34:09

Yeah, he really has a lot of nerve, even showing his face. Yeah, that guy. But anyway, he is not a major force at the moment, but they’re out there squawking, aren’t they? So, I have gotten a number of great letters from our beloved listeners, and here’s one. It says, Good morning, Mr. Nappen. I just heard on your show about the new terrible bills that the New Jersey Democrats are about to pass. My question is, where are the Republican Senators fighting these bills? Do we have a uni party in New Jersey like Washington? Well, that’s really a political question, and a large part of the answer is that the Republicans are not in power. The Democrats are in power. And when they’re in power, they can exercise that power. Now, there are some Republicans that are trying to speak up, but keep in mind, the media doesn’t give the time to what a pro-Second Amendment Republican has to say. Part of it is also, even if they’re out there talking, they’re not getting the coverage because their co-conspirator of the media is on the side of the destroy America party and the gun rights oppression party. You know, the media is with them on that. So, really, that’s why you don’t hear too much on the other side. Can Republicans do better? I’m sure they could, and hopefully they will. But unfortunately, it has to do with the balance of power as it now stands. If we really want to change this, we need to get the Democrats out of power. We need to get the gun rights oppressors out of power, and then this will stop. So, thanks for that good question. I know it’s things that concern us as we see the nonsense that goes on.

Evan Nappen 36:11

Here’s a question from Kenneth regarding lever action rifles. Are the magazine capacity restrictions? Are there magazine capacity restrictions for lever action rifles? Who knows? Who out there knows the answer to that question. Do lever action rifles have magazine capacity restrictions? Teddy, do you know the answer to that? I bet you do. Do they?

Teddy Nappen 36:42

Sorry, you cut out. What was the last bit there you said?

Evan Nappen 36:46

Do lever action rifles have magazine capacity restrictions?

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Teddy Nappen 36:54 Lever Action? No.

Evan Nappen 36:55

Right. Correct, correct. The answer is no, and that’s because magazine capacity restrictions under the assault firearm law only apply to semi-automatic firearms. And as far as magazine capacity, that’s only on the section dealing with fixed magazines, which cannot exceed 10 rounds. Other guns that are semi- automatic and accept a detachable magazine, there the magazines, all magazines that will fit a semi- automatic firearm are prohibited if they hold more than 10 rounds. But since a lever action rifle, your traditional tube fed lever action rifle, does not have a magazine capacity restriction.

Evan Nappen 37:53

Now let’s say you have a detachable magazine type lever action rifle. There are some of them out there that use detachable mags. Well, that magazine, as long as it does not fit and feed in a semi-automatic firearm, then the capacity won’t matter. But if it has a dual use, let’s say you have a lever action rifle that’ll function with a AR-15 mag. Well, that’s still an AR-15 mag. If it’s over 10 rounds, it’s contraband in New Jersey, even though you were only using it in a lever action. So, unless the mag is specific to the lever action, where it can only be used in the lever action and doesn’t work in semi-autos, then you’re okay. But if it does, then you’re not okay. So, magazine capacity, primarily on the classic fixed magazine lever actions, like your, you know, Winchester 94 or your Marlin 36 or 336, etc. You know, with the tube mag, the amount of rounds they hold is not of any concern. At the moment. They’re not part of that semi-auto. That’s how it works on magazines, my friends. It is yet another area of confusion in New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 39:23

By the way, here’s another area. This is from Jack. Jack wants to know regarding non-NFA and other NFA, AOW. So, NFA, of course, is the National Firearms Act and AOW is Any Other Weapon. And what he wants to know is, hi, Evan. I love your show. The advice you give has been useful, and I am a regular listener. I appreciate all your contribution to the 2A community. I have two questions. Are NFA, AOWs legal in New Jersey. There are some FFLs building these who claim it to be legal, but information appears to be contradictory elsewhere. So, if an NFA AOW, depending on the AOW, of course, as long as it’s federal legal now and since NFA and it’s being allowed, it would be. Now the question is, that specific configuration of that AOW, is that violating New Jersey law? And that’s where we have to know exactly the gun that we’re talking about. And unfortunately, here we don’t. Now there’s a good chance that it will be a problem, because New Jersey laws don’t mirror the federal laws so well, and it very well could be. But it’s going to be on a gun-by-gun basis for that question to be properly answered.

Evan Nappen 40:48

Are non NFA others? Are they legal to own in New Jersey and comparatively safer to own than AOWs? The answer to that is yes. As you know, non-NFA others, the good old other others, are allowed in New Jersey. They’re not considered assault firearms or other things. They are just others. The State Police do regulate and allow for their sale. So, it’s much better using and having a non-NFA other that has been declared lawful by the State Police, because that declaration alone protects you under New

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Jersey law, which recognizes a defense of ignorance or mistake of law when a person relies upon an official statement under the law. Since the State Police allow the non-NFA others, and they’ve done opinions on that as to why, that’s really your safer road here. But that letter was from Jack. Thanks, Jack, for a great letter and raising important topics.

Evan Nappen 42:01

I want to mention something that’s really, I think, going to be game changing and very significant. You’re not hearing a lot about it, but I think it’s very significant. The Justice Department is now prosecuting LA, prosecuting them for violating the Civil Rights Act for not issuing permits. Because they haven’t issued the permits and that was found in a separate case unconstitutional acts, the Justice Department is now going after the gun rights oppressionists in these fiefdoms of abuse of licensing systems and such, where they act unconstitutionally. You’re now seeing the Justice Department take action. And as they said, the Second Amendment is not a second class right. In the same way the Justice Department would enforce other civil rights, be it the First Amendment, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc, any of our Constitutional rights, they are now officially going at the bad guys that have abused citizens and violated civil rights when it comes to the Second Amendment. So, I think that is excellent in this new day, in this new approach, and I think we’re going to see some prime candidates for the DOJ to go after here in New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 43:43

So, let’s go to the favorite segment that we have, and that is, of course, the GOFU. The GOFU is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. The reason we talk about GOFUs is that I see GOFUs every day in my job, when the gun owner makes a mistake that’s costly. It can cost them their freedom, cost them their career, their lives, their families because they messed up on a Jersey gun law. And they can be very expensive lessons, but you get to learn these lessons for free, because we talk about the lessons on Gun Lawyer. They are not always criminal, but they can still end up causing grief for your rights and your exercise of your rights. Ruining even your reputation and that is the heart of today’s GOFU.

Evan Nappen 44:40

One of the things I see out there is a trick, a trick that some licensing agencies in New Jersey may try to pull. And what I’m talking about is when you apply for your Firearm ID Card, Pistol Purchase Permit or a Carry Permit. You’re going through your local police or the State Police, depending on your jurisdiction. What happens is somebody is being denied or is going to get denied, but they’re getting denied for a Lamo reason. I mean, a lame o reason that they’re barely able to justify. But for whatever reason, this issuing authority doesn’t like guns, doesn’t like issuing permits, doesn’t like this person for whatever reason, so they’re going to deny them. They’re going to deny them most likely under the Public Health, Safety, Welfare clause. A clause that says, you know, the person is somehow a threat or danger under public health, safety, welfare based on character, temperament.

Evan Nappen 45:45

And in reality, that denial clause right there is what I call the all-inclusive miscellaneous weasel clause, because they abuse the hell out of it. And if you ever get a denial for that, they’re the ones that are always worth fighting, because it’s pure bias and speculation and opinion by the issuing authority. But here’s the deal, folks. If someone gets a denial, we have 30 days to bring an appeal. Sometimes they’ll

Page – 12 – of 13

be told the denial verbally, but they’re supposed to get it in writing. They’re supposed to get a letter in writing, saying the reason, and then that gives us 30 days from that letter to file. Unscrupulous folks that are sometimes in positions of power will deny verbally and not send the letter. This way, at some point in the future, if the letter finally goes out, then a claim can be made that you’re outside the time to appeal it. Then you’re stuck with their decision. So, they wrongfully run out the clock on the time to appeal by not sending the written letter. Then when you try to appeal, oh, well, we verbally told you. You knew. What do you mean? Or whatever other lame excuse. So, the bottom line is, when you get a denial, if you do, you need to fight it, and it needs to be done timely. You need to be within those time limits to do it. It’s very important that we do that. So, don’t be a GOFU. If you need an appeal done, make sure it gets done in a timely manner, and don’t fall for just some verbal that you’ve been denied. You need to get it in writing, because that forms the basis on the filing of the appeal.

Evan Nappen 47:42

This is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 47:53

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

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Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E232_Transcript
About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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