Episode 226-New Bill to Hold Gun Owners Without Bail
Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 226

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

New Jersey anti-gun bills, gun seizure, domestic violence restraining order, machine gun conversion

devices, digital instruction, reckless discharge, pre-trial detention, cashless bail, gun rights oppression,

firearm components, ballistics report, knife crime epidemic, online retail ban, executive orders, gun

laws.

SPEAKERS

Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:17

and I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:19

and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, you may have heard that the New Jersey is up to its old tricks. Again.

They have a whole package of anti-gun bills.

Teddy Nappen 00:31

Is Murphy going to get tired yet?

Evan Nappen 00:33

No, this is going to continue. There’s been publicity about these bills. But there’s one bill in particular

that is horrible and has not been publicized anywhere near enough as it should be. It’s primarily

because they’re sneaking this through because folks don’t have an understanding of the mechanics of

what this is addressing. This is an insane bill that is going to impact gun owners, innocent gun owners,

by jailing them and holding them without bail for very long periods of time. Who knows? Maybe even

the entire case. It’s outrageous. It’s just so outrageous.

Evan Nappen 01:28

So, let me first review with you the bills that are proceeding, and then I’ll tell you about this one in

particular. This whole package of gun rights oppression has been put forward by New Jersey

Democrats, of course. One bill requires the seizure of ammunition and certain firearm components

under a domestic violence restraining order or conviction. (A1389)

(https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/A1500/1389_I1.PDF) So, if you get a domestic violence restraining

order, which is done with no due process upfront, where the person simply makes their allegations, a

TRO (Temporary Restraining Order) issues, in addition to guns being seized, ammunition and

Page – 1 – of 15components will be seized. It’s just more of a gun grab, even enhancing further the grab by the

Government of our lawfully possessed property.

Evan Nappen 02:30

Second, it’s establishing penalties for sale and possession of machine gun conversion devices. (A4974)

(https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/A5000/4974_I1.PDF) Because the new boogeyman, of course,

are Glock switches and what have you. So, that bill is focused on that. Then there’s one that

establishes the crime of possessing digital instruction to illegally manufacture firearms and

components. (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/A5000/4975_I1.PDF) (A4975) Very broad law.

What exactly is “digital obstruction”? Is that just a video on how to make your own gun? Or even talking

about how guns are made? It’s just so broad. It’s not just a Second Amendment violation, but also a

First Amendment, freedom of speech, violation.

Evan Nappen 03:18

The next bill is second in seriousness other than the one that I teased you about first. This one is also

very serious. This one is establishing the crime of reckless discharge of a firearm. (A4976)

(https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/A5000/4976_I1.PDF) So, right now, if you have an accidental

discharge, it’s not a crime. It could be a crime in which they allege reckless conduct or what have you.

But this bill is going to officially make it so that virtually any AD at all becomes a criminal, felony level

offense and that is actually going to have an even greater reverse effect. Because if somebody has an

AD and it can now become a crime of reckless discharge, the person immediately has a Fifth

Amendment right against self-incrimination. The last thing that person wants to do is to see where that

round may have gone or to call the police or do anything that could be self-incriminating. So, it’s

actually going to cause more problems, not less, and it’s going to be used to go at any gun owner that

has an accident. And look, you shouldn’t be having accidents with your firearms in the same way that

you shouldn’t be having accidents with your car, either. But just imagine if any car accident you have,

you’re suddenly going to be subjected to a felony level offense for having that car accident. Losing your

driver’s license and becoming a second class citizen. That, too, is a very problematic law, for sure.

Teddy Nappen 05:06

Actually, if you think about even more, like, what about for the police, for instance? Like things can

happen where some accidental discharge?

Evan Nappen 05:13

Well, you know, they always exempt police. Come on.

Teddy Nappen 05:16

Of course.

Evan Nappen 05:16

They’re better than everybody else. So, that’s how it works.

Teddy Nappen 05:20

Sorry, my optimism.

Page – 2 – of 15Evan Nappen 05:21

Get with the program, Teddy, please.

Evan Nappen 05:23

The gun rights oppressors want to make sure that the Government is protected. Then there’s another

requirement for the Attorney General to report data on shootings that do not result in bodily injury.

(A4978) (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/A5000/4978_I1.PDF) So, again, broad sweeps to puff

up statistics on shootings that are taking place to help in their gun rights oppression propaganda. Then

there’s another bill requiring law enforcement officers to complete training in identifying machine gun

conversion devices. (A4979) (https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/A5000/4979_I1.PDF) Because the

majority of police are not savvy about firearms, no less, machine gun conversion devices. And those

can excuse me, can take on the appearance of yeah, a Glock switch. But then there’s lightning links.

There’s drop in AR sears. There’s just so many ways.

Teddy Nappen 05:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Teddy Nappen 06:29

A shoelace for example.

Evan Nappen 06:31

Yeah, even a shoelace. You’re right. You’re absolutely right. The shoelace was something that the ATF,

at one point, declared to be a machine gun. Because you could wrap it around a trigger, and you could

bump fire rapidly with the shoelace. And so, they literally declared a shoelace to be a machine gun

under federal law. And somebody, some wise ass, who I got to admire, went so far as to register a

shoelace with the ATF. So, there is a registered shoelace machine gun in the ATF records, which I

always thought was pretty good.

Evan Nappen 07:18

Then they want to require the State Police to inform local law enforcement if certain prohibited persons

attempt to purchase firearms or ammunition. (A5323)

(https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/A5500/5323_I1.PDF) It requires the reporting. Now, of course, many

times people get NICS denials, and they’re erroneous. It happens a lot. We reverse NICS denials in the

office all the time, because the data is totally unreliable. False denials occur frequently, which is why

there’s an entire appeals process for a NICS denial. Well, if you end up with a NICS denial, it’s also

going to get reported to the local police for criminal investigation. So, it’s going to escalate to become

even worse.

Evan Nappen 08:05

As we see on the next bill, the fight that we have is trying to stop the credit card companies from having

these merchant codes that identify firearm purchases so that they can register and track our gun

buying. Well, New Jersey’s bill requires merchant category codes for purchases of firearms and

ammunition. (A5345) (https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/A5500/5345_I1.PDF) So, when you buy a gun or

Page – 3 – of 15ammo in New Jersey and you use a credit card, it’s going to be required to ID you as buying such

items. Then there’s a bill about procurement of firearm and ammunition for Government. (A5346)

(https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/A5500/5346_S1.PDF)

Evan Nappen 08:55

But the one that I’ve saved for last, the award winner, the one that is absolutely the worst of the worst.

And these are all bad. These are all problems. These are all gun rights oppression, of course. But the

bill you need to really understand is A4981. That’s Assembly Bill 4981.

(https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/A5000/4981_I1.PDF) It seems somewhat innocuous when you just

read its description. It says, “Permits court to take additional time to consider pretrial release or pretrial

detention when firearm offense is involved.” Well, what does that actually mean? Well, folks, I’m in this

arena all the time. New Jersey got rid of cash bails. There are no more cash bails. And we’ve talked

about it.

Evan Nappen 09:49

We’ve called that the Gun Owner Gulag. Because, already, if you’re charged with a gun offense, the

prosecutors are going to normally seek what is called pretrial detention. And what happens with pretrial

detention is, because New Jersey got rid of bail, the prosecutor will file a motion for pretrial detention as

soon as a warrant for your arrest is issued. And just about every gun offense is a warrant offense, not a

summons. Because they’re all felony levels. Possession of a handgun. You know, any of the sensitive

place violations. Assault firearm possession. All these things. They’re all higher felony level offenses

that they will often go with a warrant.

Evan Nappen 10:39

At which time, under the current law, you’re held for up to 48 hours, where the prosecutor has sole

discretion to decide whether or not to seek pretrial detention. And more often than not, they decide to

seek it. Now if they don’t seek it, then you’re only going to spend two days in jail. Innocent and proven

guilty of nothing yet. But if they decide to seek it, then they can hold you for an additional five days

before your hearing. That’s when you finally get due process, where your lawyer gets a chance to

argue to get you out, to defeat the pretrial detention motion. If the pretrial detention motion is granted,

then you are not released. If it’s not granted, then you are released. There is no bail anymore. There’s

no cash bail. You’re either going to be stuck in jail until your trial, or you’re going to be cut loose.

Evan Nappen 11:33

And the first time that you’re going to have the opportunity to try to even get out is approximately seven

days after your arrest. We’ve talked about this before. It is extremely serious. They use two different

scales of what is a PSA, a Public Safety Analysis. First is on, are you a flight risk? Meaning, are you

going to come back to court? And the other is your danger. And you know how dangerous guns are.

Why do you even need a gun? Especially if you have one of those intrinsically evil black rifles whose

only purpose is to kill hundreds of people. Why does anyone even need such a thing? This is the kind

of battles that we fight right now. In addition to that, there’s a provision in the law currently that says

anyone charged with possession of a assault firearm, just charged with it, there’s a mandatory

recommendation of no release that has to be made. We then have to overcome that. So, it’s a double

whammy.

Page – 4 – of 15Evan Nappen 12:40

I’ve had many false assault firearm charges, where if your lawyer doesn’t know what they’re doing, if

they don’t understand it, that person is going to end up staying in jail until their matter is resolved. Until

there’s a trial. Until there’s a plea. I mean, we’re talking about all kinds of things. I have had many

cases, a number of them, with a Mini-14. And they go, oh, judge, the Mini-14 is right on the list. Right

here. It says Mini-14. He had a Mini-14. He’s charged with an assault firearm. So, it’s a no release

recommendation, and he’s not to be released. I’m like, Your Honor, my client had a fixed stock Mini-14.

And the nomenclature identified in the Assault Firearm Bill has the “F” connotation right after it,

meaning folding stock. Only the folding stock Mini-14 is an assault firearm, not the straight stock. Oh,

how do I know that? Because I did the case on it, State v Rose, that established it. That’s why we have

the ability to have straight stock Mini-14. Because of Evan Nappen. But if your lawyer doesn’t know that

and they just see Mini-14 on the list of assault firearms, the chances are extremely high that you’re just

going to be stuck in jail pending, arguably, your trial or adjudication of it. I’ve seen it.

Teddy Nappen 14:02

Do you remember that judge that actually picked up the AR and, like, swept us?

Evan Nappen 14:06

Oh, yeah. They have no clue how to handle firearms. But, you know, there’s other guns all the time.

SKS. SKS with a fixed magazine are not assault firearms. Yet the prosecutor, do you think they

understand a fixed magazine versus a detached magazine? They don’t know. They go, oh, Judge, look

at the SKS. The magazine opens at the bottom. It detaches. No, that’s the fixed magazine that’s hinged

and only holds 10 rounds. The detachable mag are the Norincos that they only made for a couple years

that use AK mags, or if it’s been converted so it uses duck bill mags. If it’s a standard SKS, it’s not an

assault fireman in New Jersey, but they don’t know that. Do you think they know what a compliant AR is

in New Jersey?

Teddy Nappen 14:52

Well, you don’t understand. You also have the issue where they’re relying on these experts. You know

the expert that took out his mag and held up the ammo and went see that? Oh, that’s not fixed

ammunition.

Evan Nappen 15:03

Oh, my God. I’ve seen their so-called experts be so unbelievably stupid, and they don’t know. The State

doesn’t know the difference between a compensator and a flash suppressor. I mean, you’ve seen even

the legislators that promote the ban, the famous clip of the legislator, where Tucker asks her, what’s a

barrel shroud? And she goes, oh, it’s that shoulder thingy that goes up. I swear to God. The shoulder

thingy that goes up. I mean, this is the kind of dumb asses that pass laws that then get enforced by

other dumb asses. They don’t know what they’re talking about, and it takes that whole education. And

that’s the current situation, my friends.

Page – 5 – of 15Evan Nappen 15:49

Now, under this bill, they want to add a provision to the pretrial detention hearing as follows. Ready?

I’m going to read you right from the bill. Here’s what it says. “. . . provided however the court may take

additional time . . .” Meaning, they hold you in jail for additional time before the court has that hearing to

let you out. Okay? “. . .the court may take additional time than established . . .” Which is the 48 hours

and the five days. All right? “. . . pursuant to this section if the eligible defendant is charged with any

crime or offense . . .” Crime or offense. So, even a disorderly person’s offense would be covered here.

Meaning what New Jersey views misdemeanors, as we call them disorderly persons offenses. “. . .

involving the use or possession of a firearm . . .” And that would, of course, flow to what else? An

accidental discharge that they’re calling a reckless discharge now. So, those folks will be brought into

this, too. “. . . but the additional time provided for shall not exceed such time as is reasonably

necessary . . .” What the hell does “reasonably necessary” mean?

Teddy Nappen 17:22

Until they break him in the prison, and they confess, right?

Evan Nappen 17:25

Well, whatever is reasonably necessary. “. . . reasonably necessary for a firearms ballistic analysis to

be conducted and provided to the court.” So now, any gun owner charged with unlawful possession of

a handgun, any anyone charged with violating a sensitive place, any person charged with a false

charge, which we see all the time, of an assault firearm, anybody where they are clueless how these

laws work, firearm, any possession or use, anything, any of those laws, they now can have additional

time. And there’s no limit. No limit. Just “reasonable”, which is, well, the legal term for reasonable time

would be BULLSHIT. That’s what it is. For any bullshit amount of time that they want to hold you for.

So, this is just going to keep gun owners in jail.

Teddy Nappen 18:27

Do you remember Mr. Van Gilder with the Queen Anne pistol? Now they’re actually requiring a ballistic

analysis.

Evan Nappen 18:34

Right! So, we had a case once where a guy was charged with possession of a flint lock pistol from the

1600s. That he was legal to have, by the way, but it didn’t matter. We see these false charges all the

time. All the time. And people get put into the Gulag, and now they’re going to have this additional

privilege. Do you know how long it takes to get a ballistics report from the State? I mean, often we have

these cases pending, pending trial, and they still haven’t provided the ballistic report. It takes days and

days and days and days and months and months and months.

Evan Nappen 19:14

Hey, it’s not just me saying this. Let me point something out to you. There’s a study. There’s a study.

You can see it right online, OLR Research Report, For evidence; Medical Research. “Forensic Testing

Turnaround Times in 50 States” (https://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0086.htm) Okay? This report

is by Jeanne Hayes, Legislative Fellow. They did a 50-state examination for various forensic tests in the

50 states. Okay? Now, looking at all the states, not just New Jersey. And New Jersey is, you know,

Page – 6 – of 15particularly terrible, by the way. The days to complete on Table 1 of this report. The days to complete

cases for reporting local and state forensic laboratories. The days involved in this, in getting the ballistic

reports, etc. They’re talking about for firearms, 136 days as the average and a median of 58 days.

Okay? That is for firearms.

Evan Nappen 20:30

So, you can bet that you’re going to be held for a good, you know, 3, 4, 6 months before you even get a

chance to get out of jail while they wait for the ballistics report, folks. The State Police are already

overwhelmed in their need for services. For these type of services. Trying to get that ballistic report. It

not only has to be conducted, it also has to be provided. So, just the glitches in getting it provided. And

what’s the rush? What’s the rush? Because you know who’s providing it. Not the defense counsel.

That’s not who it’s from. It’s from the state, from the Government. So, they’re in no hurry. When they

submit it, when the state finally gets around to doing it, and then when they finally get around to

providing it, you’re sitting in jail even though you’re innocent.

Teddy Nappen 21:37

So, what would be the recourse, like if someone is held in there for six months?

Evan Nappen 21:43

Unless we knock out the entire cashless bail, pretrial detention system. And even if you know, let’s just

say this is absolutely unconstitutional. Let’s just assume it is. Do you know how long it’s going to take

for it to process through the courts to finally get that declaration that this process is unconstitutional? By

that time, it’ll be years that you’ll be. Because it might be, yeah, the whole thing is outrageous. So, this

bill has to be stopped. It has to be stopped. It is further imprisonment and gulagging of gun owners. It is

going to be the most egregious violation of due process, compounded upon an already egregious

violation of due process.

Evan Nappen 22:31

And eliminating bails, of which, hey, last I heard, we had a Constitutional right to a reasonable bail, but

not in New Jersey. If you’re a gun owner, the system that’s designed for you is very special. Very

special. Special so that they can incarcerate gun owners. Take away their freedom. Take away their

rights and destroy their lives. I mean, could you imagine being imprisoned for six months and not being

able to live your life? What happens to your job? What happens to your family? What happens to your

income? It doesn’t matter. New Jersey doesn’t care. You’re in jail over a charge that can be defended

successfully. It doesn’t matter. It’s an outrage on top of an outrage. And yet? Go ahead what?

Teddy Nappen 23:27

Well, what I was going to say is, the good thing is, now, with President Trump issuing that Executive

Order on all Second Amendment infringements, once Pam Bondi releases, you know, moves on from

the Epstein list, that should be the top of this right now, like, well, see the horror that is New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 23:45

Well, the problem is, President Trump can essentially, you know, his focus is federal law, and this is the

gun rights suppression of the state of New Jersey. So, I don’t know how much impact you can actually

Page – 7 – of 15have over these outrageous state laws, but maybe Congress can take action to end the pretrial

detention systems and mandate that every state has bail. Or maybe Trump could do that under the

Constitution. Because the cashless bail was designed primarily by the progressive left, Soros-type

prosecutors and such. So, that if they’re actually bad guys, you know, murderers, rapists, well, they get

out. They get out fast, right? They’re the ones that get out quickly, the revolving door for their favorite

criminals. But gun owners? Oh, now we have something different there. That’s the folks that they hate,

and their hatred is demonstrated by this entire package of gun rights oppression.

Evan Nappen 24:52

So, please make sure you belong to the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the

key gun rights group in New Jersey that is fighting these horrible laws with a full-time paid lobbyist in

Trenton. They’re sending out the alerts and putting the pressure on. We’ve got to get this bill stopped or

modified or something, because the impact is going to be dramatic and terrible for gun owners. So,

make sure you belong to ANJRPC.org. It’s a very reasonable membership fee. You’ll get emails with

the alerts. You’ll get the greatest printed gun rights newsletter in New Jersey. It comes to your door.

You’ll have a great understanding of the threats we’re facing. Plus, they’re the folks that are in the

courts as we speak. Fighting these horrible gun laws as well. So, make sure you belong to anjrpc.org.

Evan Nappen 26:03

So, as a contrast, New Hampshire just defeated two major anti-gun bills. I mean, the difference is so

striking. In New Hampshire, they tried to pass a three-day waiting period. I thought instant check

federally was supposed to end waiting periods, but this has been one of the maneuvers by the gun

rights oppressors. You know, a right delayed is a right denied. Unfortunately, in Maine, they were able

to do this, but Maine is, of course, more left than New Hampshire is, but it doesn’t matter. In Maine,

they passed a three-day waiting period, but it just got enjoined by a judge. In New Hampshire, they

have some, you know, progressive anti-gun Second Amendment oppressionists that tried to put this

three-day waiting period, but that was defeated in the house. Defeated.

Evan Nappen 26:57

Then there was another bill that would have banned carrying firearms at polling places in New

Hampshire. That would have restricted your Second Amendment right to exercise your right to vote,

creating more soft targets, right? So, then, you know, leaving you vulnerable to criminals who don’t

follow the law. There are a lot of at times, not necessarily in New Hampshire, but we’ve seen the voter

intimidation and even violence where innocent people can be subjected to that. The ability to carry is

our right to defend ourselves, and a polling place should be no different. So, New Hampshire, I’m happy

to say, is not going to accept any so-called sensitive place.

Evan Nappen 27:55

Now let me mention to you about the good folks at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. It’s

where I shoot, where Teddy shoots, my family shoots. It’s great place. Well, WeShoot is actually

offering night classes. So, if you’re busy doing your business and working by day and you want to carry

by night, you can. You can go to WeShoot. They’re now offering evening New Jersey PTC classes and

New Jersey carry renewal certification classes in the evening. As WeShoot says, your permit shouldn’t

expire just because you’re on the grind. So, they’re offering a three-hour refresher course. Classes start

Page – 8 – of 15at 6pm. They’ll do the use of force review. They’ll do carry law updates. You’ll get your CCARE shooting

qualification and the SB-182 certificate awarded. Pass the course and renew your permit. These

classes are filling up fast. You can book them at WeShoot. They also offer all kinds of other great

training. They have a phenomenal range, and it’s right there in Lakewood, right off the parkway. If

you’re in Central Jersey, that’s the place to go, and I know you’ll love it. So, go to weshootusa.com.

That’s their website.

Evan Nappen 28:26

Now, Teddy, I believe you have the Press Checks segment. You have some interesting information to

share with us in Press Checks. Why don’t you tell us what you have in mind today?

Teddy Nappen 29:54

Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free. So, I don’t know if you’ve been watching. I assume

everyone’s been hearing the news. Everyone’s been screeching every time Trump signs an Executive

Order, and the one they were screaming about. Like just one of the many gives us hope. You know, it

just does. Every time I wake up every morning and say, God, thank you for having Trump be my

President.

Evan Nappen 30:20

It’s like Christmas morning every morning when Trump is President.

Teddy Nappen 30:22

Exactly, it’s just a breath of fresh air. So, one of the things they were screeching about, you know, click

any left channel, whatever, terminate all Biden U.S. attorneys from their administration. So, you know,

he got rid of people that were loyal to the previous administration. It makes sense. Clean house. That’s

how it works. You know. It’s not the first time this was done, but you hear these two words every single

time, every single time you turn on. You can hear it. And I want to then someone to map it.

“Constitutional Crisis”. You hear them use that term every single time. They’re saying, how could he do

so many Executive Orders? He’s a tyrant.

Teddy Nappen 31:05

And I think to myself, wow, I gotta, hmm. I gotta put my thinking cap on this one. The amount of fascist

regimes that have ever downsized the Government. Gave less power to the Government. Real tyrant.

And I love him trolling them ladies. Like Hail to the King.

Evan Nappen 31:28

That was pretty funny.

Teddy Nappen 31:28

Every single time. But let’s just be really frank. If Trump had lost, they would be doing the exact same

thing. The left has, whenever they are in power, they pervert and subvert the Constitution. That has

been their “Constitutional Crisis” for years. You know the classic. They are the masters of projection

any chance they get. And quite frankly, if you’re freaking out about Trump doing Executive Orders, it all

goes back to Obama. You remember, you remember the fame where he did the interview. He went on,

Page – 9 – of 15he went on one of the newscasts. He’s there. He’s like, no, no, no, let’s, let’s not get all we did up here.

Okay? Now I got a pen. I got a phone. And I could use the pen to sign the Executive Order and take

executive action. We will not just be waiting for legislation in order to provide American support. You

know, I got my pen, I got my phone, and I got Michael. That’s just a joke, but yeah.

Evan Nappen 32:34

Right. Well, you know what else? Trump’s pen and phone, they’re like gold plated. They’re even better,

because it’s the Golden Age with Trump. And as you said, he’s restoring Constitutional rights. He’s

ending the bureaucracy. You know, they talk about a threat to democracy. When in fact, what Trump is

ending, and what he’s doing has become a threat to bureaucracy, and it’s the bureaucrats that can’t

handle it.

Teddy Nappen 33:08

Correct. And whenever someone tries to make the argument that he’s abusing authority, okay, let’s roll

back history. Let’s go back to Barack Obama. What was his Executive Order? Oh, the expansion of

background checks. He issued a massive plethora of Executive Orders infringing upon our rights. He

did one Executive Order where he added 200 new ATF agents. You know, we gotta up that dog murder

numbers. They added $4 million to the NICS checks. So, you know, they could enhance them. Also,

they partnered with the Social Security Administration, so they get added to the background checks to

try to prohibit people. Going after the, you know, people that aren’t supposed to be in possession. Oh,

yeah, that’s not it, that’s not. That’s exactly what they’re trying to do, not trying to go target and go after

gun owners. And they went after, and they ordered this massive expansion where they were to go after

the gun show loophole and any store or business where you must have a license and conduct

background checks.

Evan Nappen 34:15

Then, Biden did a bunch, you know, about 50. And what’s great is that Trump’s recent Executive Order

on guns is asking for a complete review of basically all the laws. All the Executive Orders. Everything.

So, he can then do a Trump hurricane of change. He’s laid the groundwork for identifying all the key

areas that need to be reversed by his golden pen. So, that was exciting to think about, and we’ll see

that very shortly.

Teddy Nappen 34:57

And what also really just pisses me off is they always use this word. Trump’s defying the court. Trump’s

defying the court. Okay, let’s roll it back. Just only a couple years ago, when the court ruled against

Biden’s forgiveness of student debt. Guess what he said? Oh, I’m gonna. I understand, but I’m gonna

ignore the court, and we’re gonna do it quickly so we can forgive student debt for 5 million. Post the

ruling. He actively defied the court.

Evan Nappen 35:35

Actively defied it, right.

Page – 10 – of 15Teddy Nappen 35:37

Yeah, and we were able to give 45 billion, and while it’s being litigated for the moratoriums for the court,

thing. Actively 45 billion, and it was stopped by the court. But he still issued it.

Evan Nappen 35:52

Right. Yeah. Well, Trump isn’t really ignoring the courts. He’s fighting in the courts, doing what you

might expect. Because, you know, the other side has a right to challenge these things, and you should

expect it. But Trump’s actually being quite respectful of the courts, as opposed to the prior

administrations. Yeah. Hey, I want to talk about what’s going on in one of our favorite countries across

the pond, and that’s the insane U.K. So, the U.K. Labor Government has now announced a crackdown

on online retail of knives. So, you know, they basically banned guns in the U.K. You know, it’s very,

very difficult to be a gun owner in the U.K. And since they can’t really make that the boogeyman

anymore, now they’re going after knives. They’ve been focused on this.

Evan Nappen 37:01

And here’s the latest one that’s just great. First of all, they’re calling it a knife crime epidemic. And, of

course, it’s not an epidemic, but it doesn’t matter. There are violent individuals. This particular law is

called “Ronan’s Law”. (https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/02/21/uk-labour-govt-announces-

crackdown-on-online-retailers-to-combat-knife-crime-among-minors/) Now this law is in

commemoration of 16-year-old Ronan Kanda. You see, he was murdered with a knife in 2022 by a

fellow schoolmate, Prabjeet Veadhesa. That was the name of the guy that murdered him.

Evan Nappen 37:41

Right. Actually, it said that he’s a second generation Rwandan migrant who purchased the knife used in

the attack. He purchased it on Amazon. So, the British media called him the Amazon killer, and ready

for this? Don’t fall over in shock, Teddy, okay? It said this was despite him being influenced by radical

Islamic terrorism, and him admitting to previously taking the knife from his family’s kitchen. But, of

course, we have to blame the knife. Don’t blame radical ideology. Don’t blame anything. No, it’s always

the inanimate object, so that everybody else has to lose their rights.

Teddy Nappen 37:47

Oh, he’s British.

Evan Nappen 37:56

I’m surprised he didn’t go for a machete if he’s from Rwanda.

Evan Nappen 38:44

Well, listen to what this says. It says that they’re raising it to a two-year sentence. And here’s the kicker.

The penalty, the crime, can apply to either the individual who processed the sale or the CEO of the

company. So, it’s not just the person on the possession. But the person who processes the sale, even a

CEO of the company. And it’ll apply to retailers who sell or supply recently banned weapons, such as

zombie-style knives. A zombie-style knife. That’s right up there with assault firearm. It’s another scary

ghost gun. Whoo. Well, hey, we’ve used ghosts now we got to use zombies. So, they use zombies

there to ban knives. They call them zombie knives.

Page – 11 – of 15Teddy Nappen 39:37

I would find it hilarious for them to try to arrest like Jeff Bezos for sending shipments thru Amazon.

Evan Nappen 39:43

Well, I don’t know what they’re planning. It sounds like maybe they’re setting up a registration scheme.

Knife registration, folks. For online retailers to restrict the sale of knives only to “responsible sellers”.

Whatever that means. And they’re setting up a dedicated police unit to go after those breaking the laws,

“putting children and teenagers at risk.” It’s always for the children.

Evan Nappen 39:44

Oh, yeah, but they won’t regulate the cars they’re smashing into crowds of people there.

Evan Nappen 40:24

If you want to read more about this, you can go to Breitbart. The article is “UK Labour Gov’t Announces

Crackdown on Online Retailers to Combat Knife Crime Among Minors”. It’s an article by Kurt Zindulka.

It was from February 21, 2025. So, there is even more. Because, you know, they’re not stopping with

our guns. Right now, in the U.S., it’s all about guns, and then it’ll be about knives. So, hey, if you like

knives, order them up now from Amazon, because they’ll probably have some bleed over in their

policies. I wouldn’t be surprised if it affects Amazon knife purchases all around the world. You know.

Teddy Nappen 41:06

Do you remember?

Evan Nappen 41:07

That country is out of control being an oppressionist?

Teddy Nappen 41:11

Do you remember at Blade Show the one guy that actually like, who was he? He made knives. Was it

Hungary? Or was he because they based and I was aware.

Evan Nappen 41:20

Yeah, Joe Zalucky. Yeah, he made knives. What happened was he escaped Hungary when it was

communist, and his job was to forge on a forge, you know, a metal Forge, forge parts for the old

machines. Since they couldn’t buy parts from the West, they had to make their own parts. So, he was a

skilled forger, not someone who makes fake stuff, but rather someone who works in in metal, forging

metal. And, you know, they paid him very, very little, and it was subsistence. But what he used to do

was secretly make knives and hatchets with his forge, and he would sell them secretly to help get a

little extra money so that he could survive. He was able to escape communist Hungary and get to

America. He’s made his entire career as a wonderful custom knife maker, and he actually used the skill

of his knife making and Tomahawk making that he did secretly just to survive in Hungary as his career.

As an artist, as a very, very amazing craftsman in America. So, it’s an interesting story with Joe. Joe’s a

good guy.

Page – 12 – of 15Teddy Nappen 42:46

I’m curious if that will happen in Britain. Where you see a forger like Joe trying to escape Britain.

Evan Nappen 42:56

Well, that’s the other thing. The knife ban is so stupid, because making a gun is easy enough, right?

Even just with pipe. But making a knife is even easier. Yeah, just give me a file and a grinder, and I’ll

have a knife. You know they make shivs in prison. Just bust a broomstick over your knee and you got a

stabby, stabby right there. Take a toothbrush and hold it over a flame. Listen, listen. Take a toothbrush,

hold it over flame, and pull it. It’ll make a point on it. You can make knives. You can make knives out of

cigarette butts.

Teddy Nappen 43:28

Yeah, that was the one I always loved. The cigarette butt.

Evan Nappen 43:30

Yeah, you take a cigarette butt, and you take the filter of a smoked cigarette butt. It doesn’t have to be

smoked, but why waste a cigarette, right? Puff the end out. Puff it so it makes like a puffy ball. Hold it

over a lighter. Throw it on the ground and stomp it with the heel of your shoe. It’ll flatten it. The filter

makes a razor edge, and you can hold it between your thumb and forefinger. One in each hand, and

you can actually slash with a cigarette. But good luck banning knives, okay? It’s more insanity on top of

insanity, just to oppress people and becomes their excuse, which they readily use under the knife act to

search people at will. There are no Fourth Amendment protections there in the U.K. It’s all under the

guise of looking for knives. They have the knife surrender bins where they just want to put your knives

in. Give them up, an put them in bins. Get no money back. Nothing. Too bad. Family heirlooms, historic

items, knives you need for daily use. You know you can’t have pointy kitchen knives. They are out of

control on the object and not the person. It’s pretty bad.

Evan Nappen 44:42

Hey, I have a letter here from Ask Evan, and this letter is from Larry. He says, I have two questions.

With a permit to carry a handgun, can I use a shoulder holster? And the answer is yes, as long as the

holster conforms to New Jersey’s requirements. It must cover the body of the gun and the trigger. As

long as you keep it concealed, absolutely, you can conceal your gun in a shoulder holster. No problem.

It’s on your person, and it’s in a holster. Just make sure it’s concealed.

Evan Nappen 45:14

Second, he has two AR-15s. One is a 223 or 556, and the other is 458 SOCOM. Both use the same

mags. For the 458 SOCOM, he has a 20-round mag that only holds 10 of the 458. He has marked it

with “for 458 SOCOM Only”. Can you have that SOCOM mag? The answer is no, you can’t. Because

the SOCOM mag will hold over 10 rounds of the 556, and it will fit and function in an AR of that caliber.

So, it doesn’t matter, even though your intention is only to use it as a 10 round SOCOM mag for 458, it

will hold more. It’ll fit and function in the other ARs. So, you cannot have that magazine for that gun,

because that magazine has that ability.

Page – 13 – of 15Evan Nappen 46:11

I have another question here from Mike. He says, I’m a New Jersey resident. I have a firearms ID card

and a permit to purchase a handgun. My biological father is a former LEO and a resident of

Pennsylvania. If he purchases a handgun and gives it to me, what are the regulations that need to be

followed? Well, because he is not a resident of New Jersey, but rather Pennsylvania, and you’re a

resident of New Jersey, he cannot gift you that gun directly. It has to go through a New Jersey dealer,

and you have to get a permit to purchase a handgun and make the acquisition through the dealer. In

the same way as if you bought it from the dealer. There’s no gift giving in New Jersey. Period. Even if

he was a New Jersey resident, he couldn’t give it to you. But if he was a New Jersey resident, then he

wouldn’t have to go through a dealer, but you’d still have to have the paperwork. But as a non-resident,

you have to go through a dealer. Federal law will prohibit the handgun going from folks of two different

residencies. So, be careful with that. Thanks for the question, Mike.

Evan Nappen 47:29

Hey, let’s talk about the GOFU segment. Everybody loves the key segment that we all look forward to,

and that’s the GOFU, the Gun Owner Fuck Up. This shows GOFU is about a mom who was indicted for

giving guns to her felon son. Now I picked up this article by Tom Knighton from Bearing Arms.

(https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/02/18/mom-indicted-for-giving-guns-to-felon-son-

n1227713) What happened here is this mother of a man who shot and killed, allegedly, this person,

was federally indicted. Federally indicted for illegally furnishing firearms to her son, a felon. So, it

doesn’t matter whether it’s your son or not. If a person is a prohibited person, you cannot give them a

gun. If you give a prohibited person a gun, you can now see that that GOFU can lead to criminal

charges against you. So, it escalates to some serious stuff.

Evan Nappen 48:43

So, look, folks. When it comes to gifting guns in New Jersey, it can even become a very serious GOFU.

Even if the person is qualified to have a gun, you still can’t give it to them without a permit under New

Jersey law by doing the purchase permit on the handgun or firearms ID card. If it’s not an immediate

family member, it has to go through a dealer. The only narrow exceptions are if you’re at the target

range and the person’s there and they’re not a prohibited person, they can temporarily use your gun in

your presence at the range, same while hunting. As long as you’re there, everyone’s legal for hunting.

They can borrow your hunting gun in your presence and use it then, but that’s it. The exemptions are

very narrow, and that’s only temporary possession, and only in those narrow circumstances. If

someone is a minor and they’re under the direct supervision of their parent or guardian, then they can

have a temporary transfer in that regard. But giving anybody, no less a felon, it doesn’t matter whether

it’s a blood relation or not, there’s no exemption. And as you can see, that can lead to a federal charge.

So, that’s a big GOFU.

Evan Nappen 50:00

This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from

criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Page – 14 – of 15Speaker 2 50:13

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by

Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and

opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Page – 15 – of 15

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E226_Transcript
About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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