Episode 217-More Listener Questions
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Gun rights, Second Amendment, Biden, executive orders, ATF reform, single use container doctrine, car searches, New Hampshire law, employee rights, sensitive places, New Jersey gun laws, pistol braces, holiday safety, gun transport, police interaction.

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:14

I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, I’ll tell you what. We’ve got about 30 days to go before the senile sock puppet is finally gone. And man, that guy is just unbelievable. He’s probably the most gun rights oppressive President we’ve ever had, and he is constantly lying. You know, Lying Biden. The man is constantly lying. So, recently, there was that atrocity. I refuse to call them tragedies. They’re atrocities. Because “tragedy” somehow implies like it’s our fault or something. No, no. They are atrocities. And it was the atrocity that took place in Wisconsin. You know, the attack in Wisconsin at the Abundant Life Christian School (ALCS). (https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2024/12/16/biden- calls-assault-weapons-ban-handgun-attack-madison-christian-school/) And it was with a handgun, a handgun. By a radical feminist.

Evan Nappen 01:28

And what does Biden call for? A ban on assault weapons, of course! Ban assault weapons. It seems to be the universal answer to any problem that has to do anything with crime, regardless of the facts. It’s always a call for a ban on assault weapons. Having no effect whatsoever. It would not have made one bit of difference here. But don’t worry. We’ve got to ban assault weapons. This guy’s like a broken record. His legacy is already in the crapper with his approval rating definitely going down as the most failed President in U.S. history, as far as any time when there have been poll taking on a President. The lowest approval ratings for any President, and the highest disapproval ratings for any President.

Evan Nappen 02:38

This is the guy, Mr. Gun Rights Oppression, with over 50 Executive Orders on just guns. Every chance he got. You know, he’s bought and paid for by Bloomturd and Soros and the whole crew of anti- gunners. This guy, man, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I mean it. It is going to be so refreshing to actually have a President who’s going to stand up for our Second Amendment rights, to stand up for our Constitutional rights, and of course, not to mention saving America. But this guy, Biden, what a clown. Luckily, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Fast approaching. And all of his damage can be reversed and will be like within the first day or so.

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Evan Nappen 03:42

President Trump has promised to repeal every Executive Order that Biden signed on guns, and the ATF is in the crosshairs. That agency is going to be, if not eliminated, radically reformed to end its war on gun rights. It’s just been something that has been abused by the Executive Branch under Biden. They set out to do maximum executive damage by way of gun rights oppression. And so, it can’t come soon enough, but at least that end is in sight. It is going to be a new day and a new beginning, and I am really looking forward to doing Gun Lawyer shows and reporting on the tremendous progress that we are sure to see. I am very optimistic here about good things to come. So, hang in there, folks, and ignore the sock puppet’s nonsense, as he is essentially shouting into a well at the moment, an echo chamber of senility.

Evan Nappen 05:16

So, you know, I get a lot of great questions, and I really do love getting the questions. Sometimes the questions dovetail to other important things in Second Amendment news. So, here I have a letter from George. George asks about a number of interesting things, and I want to talk to you about this as it ties into some other things. So, George asks regarding what’s called the “single use container doctrine”. Hello, Evan. I love the podcast. It’s part of my weekly Sunday routine! Well, thanks, George, I appreciate that. Keep up the excellent work. I just recently heard about the “single use container doctrine” and how it might relate to car searches and the “in plain view” searches police can perform if they see something that obviously looks like a gun case in a vehicle. Could you expand on this a bit? I’m happy to, George. Also, would you recommend using an alternative transporting methods for securing firearms? For example, a guitar case or tool bag, since it does not scream “range bag” or “gun case”. Lastly, I have one of your “I do NOT consent to the search of this bag” luggage tag on my tool bag / range bag. Would that make your average cop go, “Hmmmmmm?” Seeing Fourth Amendment staring back at them?

Evan Nappen 06:42

Well, here you go. So, what is the “single use doctrine”? Well, the single use doctrine is actually from some case law, and I think one of the key case laws on that was case from the ’70s called Arkansas versus Sanders. (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/442/753/) Essentially what the doctrine stands for is that if police search and see a container whose purpose is so obvious that a reasonable officer would know what’s inside, then that becomes part of the plain view doctrine. So, if you have a handgun sitting on your seat in plain view, well, there’s no search warrant issue. It’s an exception to the Fourth Amendment for needing a warrant, because it’s in plain view.

Evan Nappen 07:45

The single use container doctrine would apply, for example, if it was a gun case. Well, if it was a gun case that plainly is obvious to hold guns, then obviously the officer would argue he knew there was a gun inside. If it was a gun case or a gun box, you know, particularly a gun box from a manufacturer that said the name of a gun company on it. That’s not a giant leap. He’s going to think there’s a gun in there. So, they would claim in your fight on a suppression motion that the search was lawful, that the single use container doctrine could apply, and that plain view would apply, and that would be an exception. That’s why the search could be justified despite not getting a warrant as required under the Fourth Amendment. So, that’s how that works.

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Evan Nappen 08:42

In New Jersey, plain view of a gun case is considered the exception of probable cause for not needing a warrant. So, keep that in mind. The idea of carrying your gun in something that’s not a gun case is a good one. It can be both a theft deterrent and a better protection of one’s privacy. So, a musical instrument case can be a good solution. A toolbox or a tool case. They have those canvas tool bags. You know, they even make gun cases that are nondescript and are not in the shape of a rifle or a handgun. They’re more of a shape of just a rectangular-type, nondescript bag. You could use a briefcase, which is simply a briefcase, but you can line the briefcase with the foam and make it a gun case. There are many different creative solutions if you want to encourage your privacy.

Evan Nappen 09:56

The old range tag, if it’s an obvious gun bag, then you’re not consenting. It’s good that you’re not consenting, because you should never consent to a search. That’s right, I said Never. Why would you consent to a search? There’s no reason to. Now, if they can allege the plain view or that on a gun bag, then there you go. But if you simply are asserting your rights, then asserting your rights that you’re not consenting is not probable cause for a search. Okay? I get that a lot. I get it from clients. They’ll say, well, if I don’t want to say anything, they’ll think I’m hiding something. Or if I don’t consent to the search, they’ll think I’m hiding something. Not consenting and not waving your rights is not the premise to then violate your rights. It’s not how it works. You can assert your rights. But if they can overcome your rights with certain exemptions, then it may not matter whether you’ve consented or not.

Evan Nappen 11:06

So, that’s where you have to be smart and always protect yourself. Don’t leave things in plain view. If you’re transporting guns in a vehicle like an SUV, always carry a blanket. Go to Harbor Freight and buy those great moving blankets they have. They’re great! They’re tough. They’re durable. Just a standard moving blanket. Keep it in the car, and then cover whatever you’re transporting, not just guns. Cover your suitcases if you’re traveling. Cover whatever you have. Because, number one, if you have the darker windows in the back, which most of them have, the blanket ensures the darkness even better, without the ability to distinguish anything there, and it becomes a theft deterrent. It’s smart to cover your load for both your Fourth Amendment rights and avoiding any kind of plain view issue and as a theft deterrent. It’s very important to do this.

Evan Nappen 12:10

I was told this when I was a young teenage driver, way back when. I was into guns, my whole life, you know, and my uncle was a former Chief of County Detectives in New Jersey. I remember I went to see him, and I had some guns. He goes, Evan, cover that with a sheet, cover it. Even then, he knew to cover it. It’s a very important thing. Make it a practice. Cover whatever you’re transporting. Cover it. Do not let prying eyes see what’s in your vehicle. Period. No reason not to do that. So, thanks, George. I appreciate the great questions.

Evan Nappen 13:03

Recently, there was some movement that I want to talk to you about in terms of a great new law. Unfortunately, it’s not a law that passed in New Jersey. It’s a law in a state that actually supports the

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Second Amendment. That tries to do things to protect Second Amendment rights, instead of oppressing Second Amendment rights and trying to turn law-abiding gun owners into criminals. This new law was recently passed in the Free State of New Hampshire. Now, New Hampshire is actually probably the freest gun state in America. A lot of people may think, you know, certain states down south or certain states that you know in the West, and many of them are very good. Many of them are, in fact, not gun rights oppressive states. But if you want to really know the state that has incomparable freedom and just stands as a stalwart protecting Second Amendment rights, then you really can’t beat New Hampshire. It is absolutely, in terms of the Northeast, the greatest, most protective state in the union. It really is.

Evan Nappen 14:47

They recently passed a law that’s going to take effect on January 1, 2025, that addresses the issue of if you bring your gun to your place of employment. We get this question, particularly those that carry firearms, if I am a licensed concealed carry holder but my work says no guns on the property, and no guns, of course, at the workplace. The problem is there’s a conflict there between an employer’s rights and a property owner’s rights, as to what is going to be on their property, versus Constitutional rights. My personal view, not legal but personal, is that the Second Amendment is a Constitutional right. In my view, again, not the law, in my view, the Second Amendment is equivalent to laws regarding racial discrimination. That kind of thing where you can’t say, hey, no blacks allowed on this property. You should not be able to say no guns. We’re talking about Constitutional principles. But that’s not the law, and there’s the private property issue.

Evan Nappen 16:14

Well, what New Hampshire has passed is a law to aid gun ownership and try to protect Second Amendment rights. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2024/12/17/new-hampshire-workers-set-to- be-safer-come-january-1st-n1227176) They’ve passed a law regarding an employee’s right to store firearms or ammunitions in their vehicle. And what it says, in essence, I’ll summarize it. Employers are prohibited from restricting employees from storing legally owned firearms or ammunition in their vehicles while in transit or parked on the employer’s property. So long as that vehicle is locked, and you store the firearm and ammunition and it’s not visible. And, of course, I would say, go further. Put it in a locked case, as we discussed. You know, one of those cable boxes. So, it’s even secured from theft in case the car is broken into. The employer is further prohibited from taking any adverse action against any employee who stores firearms or ammunition in accordance with this new law.

Evan Nappen 17:27

These requirements apply to any employer, regardless whether they’re a public or private employer, by the way, that receives public funds from either federal or state government, and regardless of the fundings form or its amount or its level. It also applies to any state or municipality as an employer. The government even is requiring the respect of the Second Amendment by the state itself and municipalities when the state or municipal employees vehicle is on property owned or leased by the state. So, that is a great improvement here. Then they also have some additional elements. They said that all New Hampshire employers are prohibited from requiring an employee to disclose whether they’re storing a firearm or ammunition in their vehicle, and they’re prohibited from searching the

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employee’s vehicle for a firearm or ammunition. Of course, there’s an exception for lawful searches done by law enforcement. So, that’s really great steps forward to working on this difficult issue.

Evan Nappen 19:19

However, in New Jersey, of course, you have sensitive place requirements, and employers have complete control over their property. They can prohibit you from even bringing a gun, because under the sensitive places, private property that’s not open to the public is something where you need express permission to have your gun there, and that’s not to be in violation of New Jersey’s gun laws. But if an employer has a policy that says, and even if it’s a public parking lot, but the employer says you don’t bring guns to work. When you come to work, you don’t leave them in your vehicle. Then you could be fired from your job. You know, it’s a job condition. So, you’re risking your employment at least that’s at risk in New Jersey, and you might even have criminal issues. But New Hampshire has taken great steps forward to address that, which is really excellent to see. A state that actually tries to protect our Constitutional rights. Imagine that. Imagine that. Huh, pretty crazy, right?

Evan Nappen 20:40

So, let me tell you about some fun stuff at my favorite range, which is WeShoot. That’s the range where I shoot, and where I got my training. Where my family shoots, and where you should shoot, too. WeShoot is offering, and this is so appropriate right now, a free Drone Target. That’s right. Drone season is open at WeShoot. You can go there, and they will give you a free Drone Target per lane. So, if you want to have some fun and prepare for the future, go to WeShoot, grab one of their free Drone Targets and enjoy a day at their spectacular indoor range. Right there in Lakewood. Easily accessible, right off the Parkway, right there in Central Jersey.

Evan Nappen 21:37

And you know what? WeShoot has some great sales going on, and they’re offering some really cool guns. They’re particularly focused right now on the new Ruger RXM, which is their latest innovation. It’s designed for precision, reliability and modern performance. They also have the Samurai firearms “Other”. It’s an “other” in their FDE line. Flat Dark Earth line. Combining that sleek Flat Dark Earth styling with unmatched functionality. And it’s quite the tactical gun. They’re also offering the Colt Midnight 1911 – Special Edition, which is a stunningly crafted pistol with a sleek, dark finish. Perfect for collectors and shooters. They also have my good friend, Anthony Colandro, who does Gun for Hire, a good friend, his “Crime Proof” book. It’s there and signed. You can pick up a copy there at WeShoot. So, check out WeShoot for all this fun stuff, at least to look at. You’ve got to see these things, because they’re cool.

Evan Nappen 22:58

WeShoot also has a special holiday gift for you. That’s right. They are offering some great deals. They have Radical Firearms AR-15s for only $499. Imagine that! Getting into a New Jersey-compliant AR for only $499. Then they have the SDS Imports 1911 U.S. Army. Can you believe this price for a 1911? Seriously, only $399. Under 400 bucks for a 1911. You can save 5% on gift cards and get an extra 5% on physical cards. They’re running these great deals, great promos, all right before Christmas. So, there’s your place to get your shopping done.

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Evan Nappen 23:57

And, of course, they offer tremendous training. They have New Jersey CCW, New Jersey conceal carry course, and that’ll help you. They have USCCA and NRA courses, etc. They have spaces for New Jersey CCARE. They’re offering it. You can get your PTC renewal certification. You can get your CCARE right there so that you can get your carry in New Jersey. You’ve got to get that certification, and WeShoot is the place to do it. They’re offering an NRA Basic Pistol – Blended. They’re offering Utah CCW, which also can add Florida, Virginia, and Arizona as add ons. All this is there at WeShoot. They also offer New York City non-resident CCW. They can get you trained and get your carries in all these great places. So, check out WeShoot. Go to their website, weshootusa.com. It’s a beautiful website, great photography. You’ll love it.

Evan Nappen 25:09

Also, our great Association (Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs) is making progress in the litigation front. We’re waiting any day now for the higher court’s decision over sensitive places, large capacity magazines, and the assault firearm ban, the dreaded assault firearm. Oh, my god! Yeah, it’s a modern sporting rifle. Gun Rights Oppression ban is a much better name. You can know when you’re a member of the Association that you’re part of the solution. You’re backing your great state’s pro-gun group. You’re going to get alerts by email as to the latest updates. You get a beautiful newsletter, the best in the state, and access to their entire “members only” section on the website. So, check it out. Go to anjrpc.org, and make sure you’re a member. I’m on the Board and serve for free. I’m also one of their attorneys, and I am constantly advising over legislation and other issues. I’m proud to be part of it. Make sure you join ANJRPC.org.

Evan Nappen 26:28

Now, I have to plug my book. It’s required. That’s right. New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. That’s the book that everybody uses. Man, it’s the guidebook to New Jersey gun law. Don’t be without it. If you’re a gun owner in New Jersey, you’ve got to have my book. It’s that simple. It would be like getting a product without instructions. I know, as guys, we don’t like to look at instructions, but when it comes to gun laws, you better look at the instructions. You don’t want to end up a GOFU, that’s for sure. My book has been preventing GOFUs for over 25 years, because it’s the 25th Anniversary Edition. And what’s really great is when you get the book, you can scan the QR code right on the front. Make sure you do this, because I have the brand new Comprehensive 2025 Update, which is a complete update of everything in the book that needed to be updated. Because, you know, those laws are changing in New Jersey. There’s even a standalone chapter now that you get for free. You get it for free when you buy the book. Join my subscriber base. It’s private, and it’s free. There’s a standalone chapter on sensitive places. What you need to know as to where you can and can’t carry in New Jersey. All my chapters are in a question and answer format. I wrote it to be so user friendly. You’ll be able to actually understand to the best of your ability, New Jersey gun law. So, go to EvanNappen.com, and you can buy your copy right there. EvanNappen.com. You’ll see the big orange book, click on it, and you’ll have it within a matter of days.

Evan Nappen 28:36

Hey, here’s a great letter from Arkadiy, and Arkadiy says, regarding New Jersey sensitive places. Well, get my update, man. No, I’m just kidding. Let’s look at his question. It says, if I’m in Atlantic City on the

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boardwalk, one side is beach, and the other side are casinos. Both locations are prohibited for carry guns. Can I still carry one when I’m on the boardwalk? Well, that gets a little tricky, my friend. When you go to the sensitive places in New Jersey, it says: a park, a beach, recreation facility, or an area or playground owned or controlled by a state, or and there’s a comma, county or local government unit, or any part of such place, which is designated as a gun free zone by the governing body, no governing authority, based on considerations of public safety. Of course, public safety, bababab, right?

Evan Nappen 29:42

So, you see is the boardwalk on the beach? Is the boardwalk part of that sensitive place. It becomes very fact sensitive. Has it been declared under the statute based on public safety. Do you know what? It’s going to depend on that very spot. It is a big risk, and unfortunately, at the moment, that has not been enjoined. The injunction on it was stayed by the appellate court. That’s one of the things we’re waiting for the association case. Maybe they’ll go back to that injunction, and then we don’t have to worry about this complicated garbage. But right now, you do. So, my advice is, be careful. Don’t risk it. Just don’t risk it. It’s not worth it. I wish I could tell you, hey, go right ahead and be the test case, but I don’t want you to be the test case. I want you to stay a law-abiding gun owner and not have to deal with New Jersey’s gun rights oppression as they try to destroy gun owners, one gun owner at a time. That should be their motto. We destroy gun owners, one gun owner at a time. That’s our mission, it appears. Considering all the cases I get, I think that is absolutely true. So, I don’t want you to become another case. Even though I’m happy to defend you. I’d be proud to defend you, but I’m sure you’d rather not have that. I can’t tell you how many folks call me and say, Evan, I never thought I’d be calling you, but here I am. That’s right. It’s a fact in New Jersey. So, be careful and don’t push the envelope on that one.

Evan Nappen 31:36

I have a letter here from Bill. Bill says, Hi Evan. I was wondering if you got my writeup about letting people shoot pellet guns in their backyard for training. A few weeks ago, I sent a long explanation of why that would really help gun ownership. Let me talk to you. I can’t always get to every question, but I’m glad to address your question, Bill. Air guns, traditional BB pellet guns, are firearms under New Jersey law. So, being able to shoot a BB gun is the same as being able to shoot a modern firearm in your backyard. The problem is many towns have discharge ordinances. There are safety concerns, etc, and you will find that the enforcement is often aggressive. If you’re allowed to shoot a gun in your yard, then you are allowed to shoot an air gun. If you’re not allowed to shoot a gun, then you’re not allowed to shoot an air gun because they’re firearms. And that’s how state law regards them. So, you’re in the same boat. It doesn’t get around the heavy restrictions.

Evan Nappen 32:56

And, you know, I once had a case where I had a client who was shooting his bow and arrow, folks, and he got charged. He was shooting at a target. He was a champion archer, and behind his target, he had this little backstop called a barn. That’s right. So, the target was there with a giant barn behind it. It was as safe as it could be. By the way, he put every arrow in the bullseye anyway. But that didn’t stop the town from charging him under their town ordinance, folks, for discharge of a firearm. I’m not kidding. So, I went to court, and I said to the prosecutor, what did he have, a string gun? This isn’t falling under the ordinance at all. You can shoot bows and arrows.

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Evan Nappen 33:48

Oh, well, you know, . . . I said, look, this is garbage. It needs to be dismissed. Otherwise, we’re going to have a trial. The prosecutor said, well, I’ll tell you what. I’ll dismiss it as long as you stipulate to probable cause. I said, no way. No way. When that statement is made, let me translate for you. Stipulating the probable cause means they’ll dismiss it, but you’re promising not to sue them. My client was making no such promises as a matter of fact. And what I told the prosecutor is, you know what? You’re trying to make a quid pro quo here, where, if he does this, you’ll do that, and that’s to protect you civilly. And I think that is ethically a bit questionable, my friend. So, here’s the deal. You can just dismiss it or try it. I got no problem with that. Well, guess what? He dismissed it without the stipulation of probable cause. And my client sued over it, by the way. And that was over a string gun, no less. So, yeah, they’re out there. They’re aggressive. Beware. If that had been an air gun, it would have been a different story. It would have been a lot more difficult for my client on that charge. So, watch out, folks.

Evan Nappen 35:11

I have another great question here. This is from Rolf, who says, Dear Mr. Nappen. Thank you so much for your relentless commitment to keeping law abiding citizens out of jail. Your podcast is invaluable in our quest to avoid GOFUs. While I listen to your show most religiously, I must confess I’ve missed some episodes. So, I apologize in advance if this question is repetitive. Given all of the cases surrounding pistol braces and the various rulings enjoining enforcement, I’d like some clarity in terms of whether it’s legal now in New Jersey to own and transport “other” firearms to and from the range and to use one in my home if, God forbid, I need to protect myself and my family. Simple clarity.

Evan Nappen 35:57

Well, here’s the deal, man. Although we don’t have a case or statute on it, the State Police have apparently taken the position originally, and apparently still do, that pistol braces are just that. They’re braces, and they don’t make SBRs. They don’t turn “others” into SBRs. A brace is a brace is a brace. And with the federal law being killed by the courts and with the senile sock puppet and company on the way out and ATF having been suitably smashed over this in court, and with President Trump going to immediately repeal all Executive Orders on this garbage as well, I think we’re in good shape at the moment. Now, of course, things could change. We could see an aggressive prosecutor trying to go in a different direction. We still have defenses based on the ignorance or mistake of law because we’re relying on the official pronouncements by the agency in charge, which is the State Police. There’s still a potential issue, but that’s about as clear as I can get at the moment on it. I wish we had something solid, like an actual law or actual case saying this, but right now, apparently things are okay on that front. So, thanks for the question.

Evan Nappen 37:30

And I have a question here from Lou. Lou asks, I want to thank you for calling me the other day. Yes, I did, Lou. My pleasure, Lou. I got my CCP. Well, that’s a new one. Is that like, okay, I know what you mean. I’m just kidding, Lou. It’s your carry permit. In the mail this morning. Now I will have to study your book closer. Yes, you will. Study it every day. I love your blog. I have two controversial questions. Is my crossbody purse with an internal holster allowed in New Jersey? Or does the holster law only allow a physical holster on me? No cross body purse. And the section about no carry where pharmaceuticals

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are dispensed. Well, ShopRite (my grocery store) has a pharmacy in it. So, does that make me a felon by carrying in my grocery store?

Evan Nappen 38:20

So, on the first question, when it comes to purse carry or fanny pack carry, it needs to be on your person. Now it’s on your person. If it’s in a holster on your person, you’re good. If it’s a purse on your person and it’s in a holster, then it’s on your person and it’s in a holster. It’s okay that it is also in the purse or fanny pack, you see. Now, when you get in a vehicle, you want to make sure that’s right there next to you, still on your person. Always keep it close. Don’t leave it outside your dominion and control. It’s very important. And unless you’re going to unload it and transport it accordingly, you know, in a locked container, etc. So, that’s kind of how that works on those kind of things. In your vehicle, don’t just put it in your glove box, loaded. Don’t have any of those hidey places. You know, those gizmos they sell that hook to your steering column and hold the gun, or magnets that hold a gun. None of that stuff. It’s still got to be in a holster, and it’s got to be on your person. That’s the key. That’s what it comes down to. We’re going to have to be demonstrating that it was in your control, on your person. Not sitting in the back seat and you had to reach over to grab it kind of a deal. Don’t do that.

Evan Nappen 39:44

As far as the second question about the dispensary question, we have talked about it, but I’m happy to review it. In the case brought by the state Association by our good friend and colleague, Dan Schmutter, on behalf of ANJRPC, the State went on the record and made it clear that the places that are banned are limited to the sections where the ban takes place. So, if you go into CVS, which is a “pharmacy”, but it’s not the pharmacy part. The dispensary is that separate spot that’s a sensitive place. The CVS store itself, where you can buy all that other crap they sell, that’s not a sensitive place. That’s open to the public. It’s private property open to the public. It’s not the dispensary part. Same thing in the grocery store. So, don’t go to the dispensary part to pick up your prescription while you’re carrying your gun, but you can do your shopping in the rest of the store. Same as if you go to a place where there’s multiple businesses, and one of them, let’s say, is a school. Well, the school is prohibited, but not the other businesses that are there, assuming they’re private, other businesses, fine, that aren’t otherwise sensitive places. So, it’s limited to the section that is the sensitive place. That’s how that works. Thanks, Luke, for some really great questions.

Evan Nappen 41:30

And this one is from Andrew, wanting to know, again, about sensitive places. What a matrix of craziness they make us have to walk through and understand in order to lawfully protect ourselves and not be a victim of violent crime, instead able to be a defender, as our Founding Fathers intended. This question is, I have a question about carrying in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Here we go again. That alcohol question, but it’s a little different twist. Andrew says I own and manage a few properties that have a restaurant as a tenant. So, could I argue that it’s my place of business and I should be able to carry there as long as I have I’m not there as a patron?

Evan Nappen 42:19

Well, here’s the deal. I don’t care if you’re there as a patron. If you own the property, you are a property owner. The owner of the property, owned or possessed by you, is exempted under N.J.S. 2C:39-6.,

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your place of business. You own it. You own the property. It’s property owned by you. That’s ownership because you have a 39-6 exemption that exempts you from the sensitive place prohibition. Now, it doesn’t exempt your employees. It only exempts you. You’re that owner. It’s your business. If you own that property, then you are exempted from a sensitive place restriction on that property. Same, for example, doctors can’t carry. There’s a sensitive place of a medical office. But if the doctor owns their office, then that is their place of business. If it’s theirs, they can carry, even though others and patients can’t. It’s because the exemptions under 39-6 are an exception to sensitive places. By falling under that exemption, you are protected. That’s how that works.

Evan Nappen 43:51

I have a question here from Jeff, who says, Hi, Mr. Nappen. Thank you for your good work in protecting all of us. He’s a member of U.S. Law Shield, the NRA, 2AF, DRGO, JPFO, and ANJRPC. Thank you, Jeff, for belonging to all those great groups. It’s critical that we unify in our fight. And a loyal listener to your podcast. That’s most important. Just kidding. As well as Gun for Hire, yep, our good friend, Anthony Colandro with Gun for Hire. And Branca. I have your book, of course. Well, you’re very active in following your rights, and I give you credit for that and protecting your rights. And Jeff says, I have a permit to carry, and I follow every rule to the T. That is a good thing to do. I’m still trying to determine whether if I’m stopped for a traffic violation, and I inform the officer that I’m carrying as I’m compelled to do, if he asks to inspect the handgun, do I need to comply? Why? Is he entitled to unload my gun? Is he entitled to inspect the serial number? Is he entitled to hold it or keep it or do anything with it, and for how long? I see everything from the duty to inform to the duty to comply with his orders as unconstitutional, illegal, and tyrannical. And a violation of my First and Second and Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights, but I don’t want to be the test case. Thank you very much. And Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Evan Nappen 45:31

You know, Jeff, I get it man. I feel the same way as you, but again, I don’t want to be the test case. And what New Jersey has is the Duty to Inform. And, yeah, you know, it’s being challenged, and it’s up for grabs as to whether it is constitutional that you have to say you have a carry if you have a carry permit and you have a gun, whether you’re transporting it or carrying it. Whereas those that don’t have a permit to carry have no such duty to inform. If you don’t have a permit to carry, you don’t have to inform. If you’re carrying your gun illegally, you don’t have to inform. Somehow, only permit holders have this duty to inform. I get it. It’s annoying. It seems wrong on its face, but we don’t have that court case yet, killing it. So, you need to obey it, unless you want to become that test case, which you don’t want to be. I don’t want to see it become that. So, you have to inform, and you have to show your permit.

Evan Nappen 46:31

There is another section that says, if they’re performing an investigation, they have a right to take your gun. They have a right to ask for it and to see it. So, my advice is this. Once you’ve informed them and told them, don’t try to stop them. Let them examine your gun. Let them make it safe, if that’s what makes them feel safe. Look, cops have a tough job to do. I don’t want a society without police. Police help keep us protected and civilized. I believe in the police. I really do. Sure, I’m a defense attorney, but there are plenty of great cops out there that do a great job. I salute them, and I’m glad they’re there. So, look, the cop is trying to do his job. You’ve got to use some common sense and understanding there.

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And look, I love our rights, and I want to stand on our rights. But sometimes, you’ve got to weigh everything and think about it. Since the law does say that you have to inform, the law does say you have to produce your permit, and it does say they have a right, if they’re going to investigate, to take the gun, then my advice is, let them. Cooperate. Let them. You have to obey the law until we get some case where somebody didn’t, and maybe makes that difference. But till then, that’s what it is.

Evan Nappen 48:02

And you know, it’s not always just following the law. I’ve been in states where there’s no duty to inform and get pulled over for some reason, some minor reason, who knows what? Maybe they just want to advise you about something for your own safety, not even about a traffic violation itself. Maybe a headlight is out, and you didn’t know it. Or your brake light is out, and you don’t even know it, but they want to advise you. I’ve told officers that I’m carrying, even though it wasn’t required to. Because, you know what? I don’t want to get shot. I don’t want them to be nervous. I’m legal. Sometimes I do. Depends on the circumstance. Use common sense there, okay? That can be an important thing too. You need to follow common sense. And sometimes, whether the requirement is there or not, you still may wish to. Now, as far as what they can do with it, well, I don’t think they can start test firing it there on the road. That would not be good. But I’ve heard many cases where officers might make the gun safe, unload it, and then they give it back when they’re done.

Evan Nappen 49:12

Now, on the other side of this coin, we’ve run into situations where the police have violated blatantly individual’s rights. Because they informed, because they followed the law, individuals have gotten arrested. I mean, hell, put in cuffs, and held for a long time. It’s not good. They are trying to make out that somehow their carry was unlawful, because they are misreading the gun law. The law about transport says that it has to be unloaded and in a case even with a carry permit. However, that law has been enjoined by our great state Association in its litigation and that injunction is still in effect. You do not have to transport that way at all. But because the Attorney General has not put out guidance on this and has not informed law enforcement of this, they see the law and think the person who has obeyed the law in their duty to inform is in violation of the law, when in fact, the actions taken by that officer are blatantly violating that person’s rights. There’s a lot of blame to go along with that. From the Attorney General not issuing guidance to the police not being trained and taught as to what is law and what is not. I’ve had a number of those cases already, folks, where the person has been unlawfully detained because of this lack of training. I hope it gets addressed. It’s a problem.

Evan Nappen 51:11

What about this week’s GOFU, my friends? And this week’s GOFU? Well, we have Christmas and Hanukkah, and let me wish you all a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and just have a great holiday. But with this holiday season, I see cases that come about every year. And what it is is this. This is a GOFU, my friends. If you’re carrying during the holidays and you’re at your family party or whatever, relatives over, the whole bit, keep your gun concealed. Don’t show your gun. Don’t pass it around for the relatives who don’t know jack about guns to handle and then we get a problem. Yeah, I’ve had those actual GOFUs. It’s your gun. New Jersey doesn’t allow you to have temporary transfer. So, don’t be showing it off, or passing it around, okay? Yeah, you can have yourself protected. Keep it on your person. Carry it properly. Or else have them secured in your home properly. If you have people coming

Page – 11 – of 12

over that don’t know anything about guns, and even if they do, do not allow access to your firearms during the holidays. It’s that simple. But I guarantee you, folks, that I’m going to have cases. I’m going to have cases after the holidays. It never fails. Please don’t be that GOFU. Please keep guns away from everybody else. Feel free to talk about guns. Feel free to talk about our rights and all that great stuff. But keep your guns secured, either on your person or properly secured in your home, as you have relatives and friends and others come over. Or if you’re going to other places, make sure if you’re going to a friend’s place, it’s private property and that you have permission in advance to go there. Because otherwise, it’s a sensitive place and you’re prohibited because that’s not open to the public. No more GOFUs, my friends. That’s our mission. I want to keep everybody legal and safe as we fight to increase our liberty.

Evan Nappen 53:44

This is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

53:56

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

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Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E217_Transcript
About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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