Episode 216-How to legally own a machine gun in NJ
Also Available OnPodcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 216 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Glock lawsuit, Glock switches, 3D printing, New Jersey law, machine gun license, public safety, carry

permit, sensitive places, gun rights, NFA amnesty, ghost guns, antique restoration, Castle Doctrine,

stand your ground, gun laws

SPEAKERS

Speaker 3, Evan Nappen

Evan Nappen 00:15

I’m Evan Nappen, and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, my brothers and sisters in arms, we have a lot of

very interesting things to discuss today. Let’s jump right into it. New Jersey’s Attorney General has filed

a suit, along with 14 other Attorney Generals, suing Glock. That’s right, suing Glock.

(https://www.njoag.gov/attorney-general-platkin-sues-glock-for-design-and-sale-of-guns-switchable-to-

machine-gun-configuration/) And what are they suing Glock for? Is it something Glock made that

they’re upset with? No, no, no. They’re upset with Glock switches. That’s right. A Glock switch is a

device that attaches to the back of a Glock and makes it rock and roll. That’s right, it makes it go full

auto. Wow, it’s still shooting 9mm. And guess what? It’s still shooting a magazine full.

Evan Nappen 01:08

But, hey, Glock switches are the new, intrinsically evil, scary thing out there. And, of course, these

switches are very simple to make on a 3D printer. It’ll cost a couple bucks in 3D printing, or you can buy

them pre-made for 20 bucks. And they’re all illegal. Let me just say it’s illegal in New Jersey, not only to

make a Glock switch, but to even have the program or computer data to 3D print a Glock switch. So,

let’s get that out of the way. They’re already banned beyond belief, even into the First Amendment

realm to have the information. Now, of course, anyone can go online and download immediately the

program to print a 3D version of a Glock switch, which apparently function great, according to the

Attorney General.

Evan Nappen 02:04

Not only that, when you go to the Attorney General’s website, they have the criminal complaint that they

filed, and on it, in the footnotes, there is every link you need to know and learn about Glock switches

and how to install them. All the resources are right there in the Attorney General complaint. So, if any of

you are wondering about Glock switches, you know where to go. They made it very convenient. Just go

to the Attorney General’s website, go to their news release, and they link the complaint.

(https://www.njoag.gov/attorney-general-platkin-sues-glock-for-design-and-sale-of-guns-switchable-to-

machine-gun-configuration/) You can find every link you’ve ever wanted to find about Glock switches.

How to install them; how to use them; demos of them, everything to show just how great they are.

Fascinating and amazing. So, the New Jersey Attorney General has decided that this is something andPage – 2 – of 13

that a civil suit is warranted because somehow, someway, Glock is negligent, because somebody does

something illegal with their guns.

Evan Nappen 03:05

Now, keep in mind, this is a lawsuit brought by the Attorney General of a state that is a drug cartel.

That’s right! They are selling marijuana in violation of Federal law blatantly throughout the entire state.

Who cares? But somehow Glock’s responsible for Glock switches, because they make great handguns.

I mean, give me a break. This is an absurdity, of course, and I don’t know how it’s going to withstand

PLCAA, which is, of course, The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act of 2005. PLCAA was

specifically designed to stop this kind of lawsuit. But blaming Glock for people’s misuse of Glocks is the

problem, not Glock.

Evan Nappen 03:52

And what’s really amazing, when you look at the Attorney General complaint, they not only give you

everything you need there, but they also go after rap songs that somehow mention Glock switches in it

to show how terrible. I mean, if rap artists are singing about it, you know, it’s really bad. And, gee, that

has nothing to do with institutionalized racism in New Jersey, does it? No, of course not. But take a look

at their complaint. You’ll see it. They also identify various gun shops that have the nerve in New Jersey

to sell Glocks. That’s right, they list them. Hey, if you’re looking to buy a Glock, they have a great list of

stores that sell them. Go through it, and you’ll see. The Attorney General’s complaint is a marvel, a

marvel of legal acumen, for sure. And here we go, the Glock switch lawsuit.

Evan Nappen 04:45

Here’s a great article that was actually in Breitbart, a fun website to look at. It says, “New Jersey’s AG

Ridiculed on Social Media After Bragging About Suing Glock”. (https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-

amendment/2024/12/13/new-jersey-ag-ridiculed-social-media-bragging-about-suing-glock/) Let’s look at

some of the comments in the Breitbart article. It says, “One of the responses: it takes a special kind of

stupid to publicize a case that you have a 100% chance of losing.” Another X user writes, “The

taxpayers in your state should seize all of your personal assets to pay for the tax dollars you’re wasting

in an obviously frivolous lawsuit.” Yet another X user says, “I’m sure you realize that Glock does not

make the switches. So, this ‘lawsuit’ is actually ‘malicious prosecution’ and ‘lawfare’.” That’s just some

of the comments that this is generating.

Evan Nappen 05:35

And it is really, I think, great that they put this complaint together that gives you all the resources that

you need to learn and know and understand Glock switches fully. Now, of course, this whole thing

about blaming the intrinsic object is always fun in its own right, but just as stupid because Glock makes

handguns that fire 9 mm, and it will fire the magazine as fast as you pull the trigger. A Glock switch

makes it so you only have to pull the trigger once to fire all the rounds in the handgun. But guess what’s

being fired out of the handgun? The same ammunition, the same bullet, the same round that you fire as

fast as you pull the trigger. But somehow a Glock switch is intrinsically evil, because they make them

machine guns. Whoo, machine guns. Run away. Okay, there you go. So, eventually, hopefully we’ll see

the entire NFA ban on machine guns go away. Now New Jersey, I’m sure, will never get rid of their law,Page – 3 – of 13

except for kicking and screaming in its challenges that will be sure to come. For now, in New Jersey, it

is unlawful to have a Glock switch, and it’s unlawful to have a machine gun.

Evan Nappen 06:53

But it may be possible to legally obtain and possess a machine gun in New Jersey. Now let’s talk about

that, and switch gears here from the Glock switch lawsuit. Let’s look at this. Is it possible, in fact, to

legally own a machine gun in New Jersey? Well, in theory, it is. And to read what I’m going to tell you

about, you simply have to go to New Jersey law, N.J.S. 2C:58-5., which is entitled “Licenses to

Possess and Carry Machine Guns and Assault Firearms”. Now this anti-machine gun license, which is

really based on the prohibition on possession of a machine gun, where they have as an exemption to

the possession ban, the license. So, if you get a machine gun license, then you can possess a machine

gun under New Jersey law, and you would only have to follow federal law under the NFA, the National

Firearms Act, to lawfully possess a machine gun.

Evan Nappen 08:09

Can you get a machine gun license? Well, that’s a good question. Let’s take a look at what the law

actually says and discuss it. So, when you go to the statute, it says as follows. “a. Any person who

desires to purchase, possess and carry a machine gun or assault firearm in this State may apply for a

license to do so by filing in the Superior Court in the county in which he resides, or conducts business if

a nonresident, a written application setting forth in detail his reasons for desiring such a license.” Now,

what is very interesting is there’s no application found anywhere. So, I guess you make it up. You make

up an application and submit it to the Superior Court. “The Superior Court shall refer the application to

the county prosecutor for investigation and recommendation.” I can just about guarantee you what their

recommendation will be. Then it says, “. . . unless, for good cause shown, the court orders notice to be

given wholly in part by publication.” So, you might even get published on it. What will happen is the

court is going to have to decide this.

Evan Nappen 09:26

Now, what is the standard for getting this license after you submit your application to the county court?

It says, “b. No license shall be issued to any person who would not qualify for a permit to carry . . . “

Now let’s stop right there. Keep in mind this law was put in place when it was virtually impossible for

any citizen to get a permit to carry but that is no longer the case. There’re over 50,000 carry permits in

New Jersey for civilians. That’s right. Over 50,000 and growing. Because of St. Thomas, in his majority

opinion, in the Bruen decision, you can get your carry permit in New Jersey. We’ve talked about that. It

is simply the same standard to get a New Jersey Firearms ID Card and or a Pistol Purchase Permit.

Evan Nappen 10:19

Under N.J.S. 2C:58-3c., those are the qualifications, and if you meet them, you qualify to get a carry

permit. So, you’ve met the first requirement to get a machine gun license. Then under N.J.S. 2C:58-5b.,

it says, “. . . no license shall be issued . . .” Get a load of this, folks. “. . . unless the court finds that the

public safety and welfare so require.” Wow, talk about communism, huh? Before you qualify to get a

machine gun, the court has to find that somehow the public safety and welfare would require you to

have it. Now, boy, that standard is light years beyond “justifiable need” that the Supreme Court has

already said is unconstitutional. Can you even imagine that standard surviving? Public safety andPage – 4 – of 13

welfare has to require it for you to get a license to have a firearm because that’s all a machine gun is. A

firearm. I really don’t think that standard is going to hold.

Evan Nappen 11:30

But I’ll tell you what. What exactly does “public safety and welfare so require” even mean? Public safety

and welfare so required. Does it require a pursuit of history? Because virtually every machine gun since

1986 when the Hughes Amendment passed and they stopped new production, even if one was made

on the last day of that, we’re still almost 40 years old. Most of the machine guns, particularly all the

great guns of World War II. And how about the famous Thompson? What 1920s, right? 27-28, right?

Then, that one’s almost 100 years old. So, what if you are into history and into collecting, does a “public

safety and welfare require” that you abandon your pursuit of history and your love of military firearms? I

don’t think so.

Evan Nappen 12:31

Before even trying to meet that standard, a constitutional challenge is begging to take place here,

begging for it. Then it says, “Any person aggrieved by the decision of the court in granting or denying

an application, including the applicant, the prosecutor, or any law enforcement officer entitled to notice

under subsection a. who appeared in opposition to the application, may appeal said decision . . .”

Great. What a great way to make law, isn’t it? Run it up the appeals. There you go. It’s there. It’s there.

Is this a license that is actually obtainable? Does this meet the Bruen standard? I doubt it. You need to

have a carry permit first. Well, guess what? Over 50,000 people have it.

Evan Nappen 13:13

Here’s what’s really interesting. This statute is so poorly written. Let me give you a great example of just

how poorly written it is. Well, in N.J.S. 2C:58-5.d., it says, “In issuing any license under this section, the

court shall attach thereto such conditions and limitations as it deems to be in the public interest.” Since

when is that a Second Amendment standard? Of course, it isn’t. “Unless otherwise provided by court

order at the time of issuance, each license shall expire one year from the date of issuance, . . .” Did you

hear that? The statute in subsection d. says the license is good for one year. Then just go down to

paragraph g., and what does it say? “Any license granted pursuant to the provisions of this section shall

expire two years from the date of issuance . . .” That’s right. A direct contradiction in this brilliantly

crafted statute that makes the expiration one year and then makes it two years. That’s how well written

it is. Why is it so written? Because they never thought anyone would have the balls to even try to get a

machine gun license when you couldn’t even get a carry permit in New Jersey. By the way, the fee is

only 75 bucks. Heck, that’s a bargain under New Jersey licensing. There’s a filing fee of 25, and there

you go.

Evan Nappen 14:41

Now, keep in mind, folks. “h. If an assault firearm licensed pursuant to provisions of this section is used

in the commission of a crime, the holder of the license for that assault firearm shall be civilly liable for

any damages resulting from that crime.” Do you know what’s funny? They didn’t include machine guns.

So, if you want to avoid the civil liability, don’t get an assault firearm. Don’t waste your time getting a

little semi-automatic assault firearm. Go for the machine gun where you’re civil liability free if it’s used in

a crime. Again, a brilliantly written statute here.Page – 5 – of 13

Evan Nappen 15:23

Keep in mind, folks, that this is something that is out there. That’s on the books, in the law and presents

possible opportunity, if any of you want to consider it. It’s something to think about, and I think it’s

something that is unbelievably unconstitutional. But that is actually how you could get a machine gun.

And by the way, there’s another way you can legally own a machine gun in New Jersey, and that is if

you’re a licensed retail dealer. Licensed retail dealers are exempt for machine gun possession under

the exemption. So, if you become a licensed dealer in New Jersey, and of course, all this requires you

to follow federal law, meaning the entire NFA. But if you get a New Jersey machine gun license, or if

you’re a New Jersey retail dealer, and you follow federal law on all the National Firearm Act

requirements, then you, too, can legally own a machine gun in New Jersey.

Evan Nappen 16:23

Hey, let’s talk about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, New

Jersey, a fantastic range. It’s where I personally shoot, and so do my family. It’s where I got my

credentials, my certifications, and my training. This week at WeShoot, they’re offering a Daniel Defense

DDM4 V7 Pro, which is a precision rifle, of course, and it is unbelievable quality. It’s designed for the

discerning shooter, like yours truly, and it blends custom-grade craftsmanship with unmatched

functionality to deliver superior performance in any scenario. It’s chambered in 5.56 NATO. The barrel

is an 18-inch Cold Hammer Forged barrel, and the magazine comes with a 32-round magazine. Oh,

my, but guess what? It’s not semi-automatic, and it doesn’t fit or feed in a semi-automatic firearm.

That’s very interesting, isn’t it? The rail system is an M-LOK, and it has the ability to be customized. The

finish is a sleek black finish, very professional, and its optics ready with a flat-top upper receiver. So,

check out that Daniels Defense.

Evan Nappen 17:51

Guess what else? WeShoot is also offering a Walther P38 – Post War, German made Walther P38. I

love the P38 handgun. The P38 is the German gun developed after the Luger during World War II. It’s

way more reliable than the Luger. Luger is a beautiful, beautiful gun, but it’s like a fine watch. Whereas

the Walther P38 can really take the abuse. Interestingly, the Walther P38 is the great-grandfather of the

Berretta 92. If you look at the actions, you’ll see how it’s open on the top, and you’ll see the double

action nine going on there. A lot of similarities. That Walther P38 is a benchmark in the development of

double action 9 mms, my friends, and it is very historic, very cool. The Post War German P38s are just

as good as the wartime 38s. Most of the Post War 38s actually have an aircraft-type, aluminum alloy

frame. So, they’re lighter weight, and it has the balance control and that classic feel of a P38. This gun

was widely used throughout World War II, and definitely a favorite and a classic. So, if you want to get

yourself a P38 go to WeShoot. They’ve got them, and they’re the real German ones, folks. Pretty cool.

Evan Nappen 19:30

They’re also offering the Girsan Regard S Liberator. And that’s exceptional craftsmanship, robust

design of the EAA Girsan Regard S Liberator, which is a modern take on a timeless design. It’s

chambered, of course, in .45 ACP and has fantastic engineering and ergonomics. So, you’ve got a lot

of great stuff to check out at WeShoot, and there’s zero extra fees. Shop at WeShoot. They got 1000sPage – 6 – of 13

of items there, and you’ll have a great time. Their proshop is second to none. Go to weshootusa.com,

weshootusa.com and check out their website. Beautiful photography. It’s just a great place all around.

Evan Nappen 20:27

Let’s also not forget our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They’ve

been very, very busy fighting for your rights, my rights, our rights. They are the foremost gun rights

defenders in New Jersey. They’re also the NRA affiliate of New Jersey. They are the largest gun rights

group in New Jersey, and they’re the ones litigating, as we speak, in federal court. Any day now, we

should hear from the Appellate Court in their litigation over the Carry Killer bill and its onerous

provisions, sensitive places so-called, where you have to be a victim instead of a defender. I can’t wait

to see that decision. And of course, that’s being handled, but my good friend and colleague, Dan

Schmutter. He’s doing a great job, and we are really looking forward to seeing the results there.

Evan Nappen 21:18

They’re also in the courts challenging the assault firearm ban and the large capacity magazine ban,

what we prefer to call the modern sporting rifle ban and the standard capacity magazine ban. The

Association has a wonderful newsletter. It’s the best newsletter in the state. Plus, you’ll get the email

updates, the alerts of the shenanigans going on in Trenton, and they’ve got a whirlwind of other things

coming our way. I’ll be talking about them on the show soon. You need to belong to the Association so

we can fight these new outrages coming your way. As any of these get any traction, I will be alerting

you to it and so will the Association. Please join ANJRPC. Go to anjrpc.org. Make sure you join. Be part

of the solution to saving and fighting for our Second Amendment rights and battling the gun rights

oppressors.

Evan Nappen 22:21

I also would be wrong not to mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law.

It is used by 1000s and 1000s of gun owners throughout the state. It’s used by the New Jersey State

Police Firearms Division. It’s used by judges and lawyers. It is the go to book on New Jersey gun law.

It’s over 500 pages with 120 topics, all in a question and answer format. You can get your copy today at

EvanNappen.com. Let me say I have completed and posted the Comprehensive 2025 Update. It is

comprehensive. I have completely updated the book. So, when you get the book, scan the QR code. If

you already have the book, make sure you’ve scanned the QR code. You can get the detailed

comprehensive update for free. The updates are free, and the list is private. You have nothing to lose

and everything to gain, particularly a free update that’s incredibly thorough. And, folks, for your ease of

use, I have broken out the sensitive places where you can carry into its own chapter. So, when you

download the comprehensive update and you go to carry permits, you’ll see carry permit sensitive

places. I explain all the places you can and cannot carry. There will be more updates to that when the

Association case gets decided at the appellate division. So, get your book today and make sure you get

the update.

Evan Nappen 24:08

So, one of my favorite gun news sources is “The Reload.” (https://thereload.com/) I have a whole bunch

of them that I go through daily, and I pull the most interesting things to share with my beloved listeners.

This one comes from The Reload. The Reload is really cool. Go to thereload.com. They have an articlePage – 7 – of 13

there called “Homemade Gun Experts on the CEO killer’s Loadout”. (https://thereload.com/homemade-

gun-experts-on-the-ceo-killers-loadout/) That’s right. Let’s talk specifics, folks. You and I love guns.

Let’s talk about guns. Guns. Guns. Guns. What about the gun that the murderous CEO killer used?

There were all kinds of things being put out in the news, whether it was a veterinary suppressor type

gun, whether it was homemade or not, and blah, blah, blah. Well, guess what? We’ve got some real

answers here in The Reload article written by Stephen Gutowski, who writes a great article.

Evan Nappen 25:06

If you go there, he said The Reload spoke with experts, and the experts say that the frame of the killer’s

gun contains telltale signs of 3D printing. Oooh, ghost guns. Oooh, scary. Including visible layers and

potential minor damage from where the builder removed it from the printer. It seems pretty clear to the

experts that this gun was 3D printed and not like a polymer 80 or that kind of gun. Here is a quote from

John, who goes by Mr.Snow.Makes. He says, “I can absolutely confirm it’s a 3D-printed frame with

100% certainty.” And here you go, folks. The identified specific frame, apparently agreed upon by the

experts, is a variation of a design that was put online by an activist who goes by the name

FreeMenDontAsk. Isn’t that pretty funny? Free men don’t ask. It’s FDMA. So, they seem to believe that

it was an FDMA.

Evan Nappen 26:29

And here’s a quote from Matt Larosiere, a gun-rights lawyer who works with 3D-printed gun designers

and hobbyists. He says, “Of course, the images we have are blurry and suboptimal, but being very

familiar with different frames-both 80% and printed-the relief around the mag catch and the angle under

the trigger guard are distinctive.” “That the grip texture is raised relative to the rest of the frame versus

inletted is indicative of it being a certain remix of the DD19.2″ That was a file released originally by

Deterrence Dispensed. That’s at www.deterrencedispensed.com. Snow said, “Specifically, this file is

denoted as the CMW stipple mod.”

Evan Nappen 27:17

Now, let me warn all of you about downloading that information. If you download it, possession of that

download by itself, whether you intend to print it or not, is a crime in New Jersey. That’s right, New

Jersey is limiting your First Amendment rights as well as your Second Amendment rights. So, be

careful. If you download it, then you can be charged for even having it. We cannot even look at this

information when we want to look at a gun that a killer apparently used. You’re not allowed to do it.

You’re not allowed to do it. You’re only allowed to know where it is. Be careful. You’re warned.

Evan Nappen 28:04

And Rob Pincus, who organizes a shooting competition for homebuilt gun enthusiasts, how about that?

A PMF, Privately Made Firearm shooting competition. He agreed the frame is a DD19.2, but it may

have been “remixed” by somebody else. Then Cody Wilson, who owns Defense Distributed and

became the first face of 3D-printed guns after unveiling The Liberator in 2013, identified the specific

designer. He said, “I am certain the shooter used a variant of an FMDA Glock frame.” So, these are all

very interesting, and if you wanted to know the specifics, now you know. You can read this great article

that has lots of backup with resources and everything else you’d want to know is there at The Reload.Page – 8 – of 13

So, check out The Reload. It’s a pretty cool news aggregate site, and I love reading their stuff there.

And Mr. Gutowski does a great job.

Evan Nappen 29:11

Speaking of other great aggregate sites, another favorite of mine is AmmoLand, and one of my favorite

authors at AmmoLand, of course, includes John Petrolino, who we’ve talked about. It also includes

John Crump who we’ve talked about, and also Dean Weingarten. I love everything Dean writes. Dean

had a great piece here, very thought provoking, and I want to make sure you’re aware of it. His article is

entitled, “Trump Administration Should Make Use of NFA Amnesty”.

(https://www.ammoland.com/2024/12/trump-administration-should-make-use-of-nfa-amnesty/) And man

is Dean right! What a great idea. You know, how the failed President Biden couldn’t help himself,

writing every Executive Order to destroy America. You know, ruin our energy independence and allow

millions of illegals. You know, all the great stuff that he did by Executive Order. Well, now’s the time to

use the Executive Order for good, for freedom, and for liberty. That’s where NFA amnesty can come in,

because President Trump has a tool. It’s actually already in the law.

Evan Nappen 30:18

In the 1968 Gun Control Act, dealing with the NFA, they passed a rule that allows the Secretary of the

Treasury to declare amnesties, to allow people to register items covered by the Act. Dean Weingarten,

in his article, gives the law. The law says the Secretary of the Treasury, after publication in the Federal

Register of his intention to do so, is authorized to establish such periods of amnesty, not to exceed

ninety days. There you go. It’s right there. You know, the last amnesty we had was in ’68, 56 years ago.

Now, isn’t the whole push all the time, well, we want these guns registered. We want to have registered

guns. We want registered guns. Well, do an amnesty. You’ll get plenty of registered guns. Only what

you’re going to get is registered machine guns, registered suppressors, registered SBRs, and in that 90

day period, you could make it register guns that you like. And that’s all within the power of President

Trump to have his Secretary of the Treasury declare an amnesty.

Evan Nappen 30:22

With this law, as Dean says, the Secretary of the Treasury is granted almost unlimited discretion. The

Secretary may place limitations on amnesties. He can basically do whatever he wants and whatever

the president wants him to do. Dean suggests, let’s just start with silencers and suppressors. By the

way, in the amnesty, there’s no tax paid and no burdensome paperwork. The Secretary can do this for

90 days at a time, and there’s no limit on how many amnesties he could do. He could do an amnesty

every 90 days of the entire Trump presidency with no approval from Congress needed. It’s a great way

to get suppressors easily legal and any other NFA item. It’s about time that we, on the side of gun

rights, start taking advantage of these things that are already in the law.

Evan Nappen 32:37

Mr. Weingarten says that he thinks the most productive approach would be to go after the most idiotic

and counterproductive of items on the NFA list. He suggests removing silencers/suppressors first. Then

he suggests going after short barrel rifles. He points out that even the Roosevelt Administration did not

consider them a problem in 1933. And to quote Mr. Weingarten, “It was only the stupid, drunk, or

Machiavellian representative from Minnesota . . .” We know somebody else from Minnesota whoPage – 9 – of 13

probably fits that description. “. . . who insisted they be included in the legislation. Pistols have been

firmly established as protected under the Second Amendment. To claim putting a stock on a pistol, to

make it more accurate and harder to conceal, increases criminal use is absurd.” And of course, he’s

right.

Evan Nappen 33:29

That goes back to the argument of the Attorney General on Glock switches. Because if you put a Glock

switch on and you dump that mag, it’s extremely inaccurate. Inaccurate. That’s right. It’s very hard to

control that. If you fire a single shot, it’s much more accurate. Hey, do you know what stocks on pistols

do? They make it more accurate. Why is there a war on accuracy? I have no clue. But there you go. I

hope that President Trump takes him up on getting an amnesty period for NFA.

Evan Nappen 34:05

Now, of course, that won’t help you in New Jersey, because suppressors are separately banned in New

Jersey. Short barrel rifles are separately banned in New Jersey, and machine guns are banned in New

Jersey. But for anyone who lives in Free America, it will make a difference. It will also make these items

even more commonly owned, which should also be beneficial in their eventual demise under a Second

Amendment challenge.

Evan Nappen 34:31

Hey, let’s take a look at the great letters that I receive, and I really do love them. Here’s some great

questions. This one is from Rich. Rich has a question. He says, I have a New Jersey and Pennsylvania

concealed carry permit and am scheduled to take a class in Nevada in January. According to USCCA,

Nevada does not have reciprocity with either state. Am I at risk to fly to Nevada with my handgun for

the training class?

Evan Nappen 35:02

Well, first of all, we’ve talked about flying before. If you fly out of New Jersey, you’re always taking a

risk. But if you have a carry permit on that handgun and it is unloaded and you’re transporting pursuant

to Title 18, you hopefully will be okay. Your best bet is not to fly out of New Jersey. Fly out of

Pennsylvania, where it’s even safer. The problem is once you get to Nevada. Even though Nevada is

fairly pro-gun, of course, they’re not honoring your carry permits. You have to make sure and check

with a Nevada attorney that you’re okay to bring your handgun. Now I would pretty much guess you

are, but I cannot say you are. You need to confirm that you are. Carrying it without a permit in Nevada

is probably a big problem, so I wouldn’t do that. But you need to confirm the Nevada laws. Now, the

other problem is, if you’re going to fly and you want to invoke Title 18, you have to go to a place where

you can possess and carry. If you can’t carry it in Nevada, you might not actually be entitled to the

protection of the Gun Owner Protection Act that allows you to fly and go interstate with a gun. So, these

are all complications, but the answer lies more within Nevada law and that’s where you’re going to have

to get clarified to your specific circumstances.

Evan Nappen 36:25

I have a letter from Igor, and Igor says, I don’t know if you have any information on this issue. When

someone wants to renew their NJ CCW, the State Police give the following instructions. Then he listsPage – 10 – of 13

the instructions: SBI number, the training record, qualification date and instructor name, updates on

personal information, upload of recent photograph and background information, updates to handgun.

$200 application fee. When you go to the SP website, it also asks for four references. This is not

mentioned above. Is this an oversight or unmentioned requirement for 4 references?

Evan Nappen 37:06

Yes it is. The answer is yes. Whether it’s renewals or initials, you still have to follow the application

process under N.J.S. 2C:58-4, and under that statute four references are still required. It’s important to

make sure you’ve cleared your references in advance. Tell every one of your references that you’re

going to use them as a reference. Ask every one of your references if they will support your application.

You might be surprised. Then make sure they’re willing to reply immediately upon receiving the email

from the State Police and not sit on it for three months. They have to answer and send it back

immediately. Also, ask them to promise to let you know as soon as they do that. Otherwise, that can

hold up your application. Thank you for a great question.

Evan Nappen 37:59

Now let’s take a look at a letter from Eric. Eric says, I listen to your podcast weekly and thank you for all

your information and efforts around 2A issues. Thank you, Eric. The following is from the 2024 NJ

Hunting Digest. Public Law 2023, Chapter 330, amending and just N.J.S.A. 23:4-12, 13, 24, and 44,

authorizes the carrying of a handgun while hunting if the handgun is legally owned and the person in

possession has a valid NJ concealed carry permit. Handguns are still not legal for taking or attempting

to take wildlife, etc. The question I have is, does this overrule the sensitive places restriction, if you

carry in an otherwise prohibited place like a state park, which I believe include wildlife management

areas and other non-private hunting areas.

Evan Nappen 38:52

The answer is that it does not override sensitive places. What it does is allow you to carry without

violating the hunting laws. That’s it. You’re still responsible for obeying all the laws of a carry permit,

which include all sensitive places, the safe carry provisions, the proper holster, keeping it concealed

and on your person, etc. It does nothing for the Carry Killer bill. It simply allows the carry during hunting,

which, prior to this Fish and Game was prohibiting.

Evan Nappen 39:42

Here’s a letter from Ron. Ron says, not really a question, but more of a topic. Where do we stand in

New Jersey on castle doctrine? I don’t believe it applies here. Is there any chance we can get stand

your ground in New Jersey? Thanks for all you do, Ron.

Evan Nappen 39:58

Okay, well, this is actually a good question, and a topic combined. New Jersey has Castle Doctrine,

which means you do not have a duty to retreat in your home. In other words, if you’re being attacked in

your home, justified in using deadly force, you don’t have to retreat to your bedroom. But what New

Jersey does not have is “stand your ground”. That means you do have a duty to retreat if you’re outside

your home. You have a duty to retreat, but duty to retreat requires you to do so with complete safety.

Now, I don’t know what “complete safety” means, other than maybe “Beam me up, Scotty”. I don’t knowPage – 11 – of 13

how you’re facing a situation where you are justified in the use of deadly force, because there’s that

unbelievable risk of serious bodily injury or death that you’re facing imminently, right there and then,

and somehow you can get away with complete safety. I don’t know what scenario allows that, but if it

does, boy, you sure have that duty to retreat in New Jersey. We do not have stand your ground. So,

that is how that works. But hey, if you can retreat, retreat. If you can avoid using your gun and not be

injured, that’s what you want to do. You want to make it your last resort, because even when you’re

justified, New Jersey will still try to make an example of you. Just as New York tries to make examples,

as you may have recently seen, out of individuals that try to save others from death threats. Well, New

Jersey’s in the same mold, my friend. So, beware.

Evan Nappen 41:44

This is also from Ron. Ron says, yours is my go to podcast every week. Well, thank you, Ron. I’ve

gained a wealth of information listening to you and that should help me avoid a GOFU. Yeah, you sure

want to avoid GOFUs. My question. I will be reapplying for my PTC early next year. Since my initial

application, I’ve inherited several firearms from my father when he passed. Well, I’m sorry to hear that

he passed, and I can sympathize as well. But you inherited his guns, and those guns are a treasure to

have, for sure. And his question is, what happens if I list them as possible carry firearms on my PTC?

Since they’re not registered in my name, will that register them?

Evan Nappen 42:30

Well, yes, it will. It will de facto register them. Once you put them on the PTC application, they’re going

to be databased to you. So, if you don’t plan to carry one of those inherited firearms and because there

was no registration required under inheritance for New Jersey, they will stay out of the government

database. But if you choose to carry them and put them on your permit, so to speak, then yes, you will

de facto register them. So, I would advise you not to carry any of your inherited firearms. Get a pistol

purchase permit and buy your carry gun of choice. Hey, is this giving you a great excuse to have to buy

a gun or what? Come on. Go out there and get that gun you want to carry. It will already be Jersey

papered, so it won’t matter. And that’s your carry gun. If you want to carry other carry guns, of course,

you must buy more guns on pistol purchase permits. And so, I know that’s not a terrible thing, right? So,

there you go. You will inadvertently register them if you do list them. So, I do not recommend to

anyone, by the way, to put any gun on that list that you lawfully possess but is unregistered. I would

particularly advise you not to put any gun on that list that you unlawfully possess. That would really be

stupid. That would be the king of GOFUs right there.

Evan Nappen 43:59

I have a letter here from Scott. Scott asks regarding antique restoration and ghost gun laws. My last

question was cut off, sorry. Once I get my antique, there are often missing or broken pieces that need

to be repaired or replaced. By my reading of the ghost gun ban, it is illegal to 3d print or CNC machine

replacement or broken gun parts. When I’m working on other things, I will often 3d print a prototype

piece for test fit, and then machine it out of wood or metal. It seems like this is illegal now for firearms.

Evan Nappen 44:32

And guess what it is? Because antique firearms are still considered firearms. If you’re making firearm

parts or you’re 3D printing gun parts, New Jersey does not have an exemption for that. Now, the onePage – 12 – of 13

exemption for antique firearms is on No Serial Number (NSN) guns. After lots of hard work by the state

Association, myself, Dan Schmutter, and Scott Bach, we were able to get the Attorney General to issue

that great opinion which took antiques out of it, pre ’68 guns out of it, etc. It’s important that we were

able to do that, saving millions of guns, but that’s only on the no serialized gun part of the ghost gun

law. The other provisions still remain in effect. The AG opinion didn’t address that. So, unfortunately,

you do have a problem, even when trying to fix antique guns. So, beware of that. By the way, if you’ve

downloaded my free Comprehensive Update because you have my book, the Attorney General opinion

is right there in the comprehensive update about no serial number guns and the great relief, saving

millions of guns that the state Association and the team was able to achieve.

Evan Nappen 45:48

And I have a question from Lorenzo. Lorenzo wants to know regarding Duty to Inform as a passenger,

employee of a sensitive place while carrying. Hi Evan, big fan. I listen to you religiously, and you once

featured my question on your podcast. I appreciate your giving me my 15 minutes of fame. Yes,

Lorenzo, I’m happy to do it with my 2A friends who also listen to your podcast. I would like to ask you

two questions please, if it’s okay. No problem, man. I love the questions. Number one, in the question

you answered for me, we established that my business that I own, a community pharmacy, is a

sensitive place, and I can carry. But can I allow my employee/manager, who also has a PTC, to carry in

the store with my express permission?

Evan Nappen 46:32

Unfortunately, you cannot. You see, the reason you can carry is because there’s an exemption under

N.J.S. 2C:39-6.e., place of business, and that will override sensitive place for you. But it does not, at

the moment, qualify as a place of business for your employee/manager, at least under the current case

law, because you have to be the owner. Unfortunately, they strictly interpret that. I think it’s a load of

garbage, but your employee/manager doesn’t want to be the test case, I’m sure. So, unfortunately, no.

Evan Nappen 47:06

Question two, if I’m a passenger in a car, whether it’s a friend’s car or rideshare like Uber and they get

pulled over, providing they don’t ask the driver if there are any weapons in the car, if I’m carrying as a

passenger, do I have the duty to disclose? Guess what? The answer is yes. It doesn’t matter if you’re a

passenger. It doesn’t matter if you’re on a bus that gets pulled over by police. Once the police have that

encounter and they are there, you had better disclose and let them know and show your permit as well.

Because the Duty to Disclose is pretty broad about what your requirements are. It applies not just in a

vehicle, but if you’re stopped by an officer even on the street, you need to tell them. So, don’t have a

GOFU with that.

Evan Nappen 47:53

Today’s GOFU is a final letter and question that I think could easily be a GOFU. Now, I’m not saying

that this person committed a GOFU, but boy, this sure would be a fun one. Let me read this letter from

Susan. And Susan, I do appreciate your letter. It says regarding the KelTec sub 2000 for concealed

carry. Hi, Evan, I have an NJ Firearm ID Card. Is it legal for me to keep the KelTec sub 2000 in my

purse? Now I don’t know if you’re familiar with this, but before I finish the letter, a KelTec sub 2000 is a

rifle that has a folding barrel. It’s pretty substantial, even when it’s folded. You must have one hell of aPage – 13 – of 13

purse to fit that in it. But, nonetheless, is it legal for you to keep it if it’s loaded? Can I do it if it’s

unloaded? If I was justified using deadly force, would it be legal for me to possess the loaded sub 2000

outside my house? I really like the sub 2000. It’s nifty. I agree it is nifty. I’d rather have that than nothing

until my NJ PTC is approved. I don’t want to be a GOFU.

Evan Nappen 49:07

Let’s just make this letter this week’s GOFU because, yes, it would be a GOFU to carry that in your

purse. Although with a Firearms ID Card, you could possess it and have it unloaded, cased. You are

really pushing the envelope. Then loading it in time is not really practical. If it’s loaded in your vehicle,

that becomes a separate problem, because you have to be permitted by law to have it loaded. So, you

really can’t have it loaded anyway. Granted, we could make legal arguments to try to save you, but I’m

just going to have to put this under a big GOFU. You’re going to have to wait to get your carry permit

and then carry your concealed loaded handgun. The old days of the transport and all on that, you still

have issues in regard to sensitive places and transporting firearms. You have an entire anti-gun state

that would love to make an example of you. All I would say is I’d love to see the face of the cop that

discovers you with a KelTec sub 2000 in your purse. I don’t think you want to be the test case either,

Susan, but I do appreciate the question. Please don’t be a GOFU.

Evan Nappen 50:15

This is Evan Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They

protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 3 50:27

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by

Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and

opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E216_Transcript
About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

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